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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Why this game is a bad idea

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106 posts found
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15694

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/05/12 10:20:31 AM#61
Originally posted by Lucioon
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Creslin321

I think that's what they are doing.  They are just trying to make a "traditional MMO" set in Tamriel.
 


 

You skipped the part explaining why this is supposedly bad idea...

Its a bad idea because they could have set it in any world and its still be the same exact game. It can be set in Modern Day Earth, Star gate universe, Hello Kitty Universe, GTA universe and it will be the exact same game that they are developing.

Without utilizing what made the IP popular in the first place, it just seem to be using tamriel as a attention and hype generator 

Doesn't mean it will be a bad MMO, and that's all that really matters is it not?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

5/05/12 10:21:40 AM#62
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by SEANMCAD

that doesnt make any sense
first off assuming you know the actual sales numbers and your claim is correct the game on the consoles is also a single player game is it not? how do you go from consoles sale high to that is why they dont need to stick to the single player concepts


 

It does makes sense, you just don't get it. 2 different things.

My assumptions about sales have solid base, ie:

http://www.dailytech.com/The+Elder+Scrolls+V+Skyrim+Tops+34+Million+Retail+Sales+in+First+2+Days/article23293.htm

Only 14% sales of Skyrim are credited to PC platform. You can go and dig out more info but it will be about the same.


Because the game actually sells high on consoles only, it would be unreasonable to make an MMO inaccessible to majority of your fan base, therefore it is better to make it out as game catering to mainstream MMO population.

is the console version also a single player game?

again I ask how does a console single player game make the point but not a pc single player game?

Correlation does not imply causation

  Indol

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 192

5/05/12 10:23:51 AM#63
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Indol

What success SWTOR has had is a result of the words 'Star Wars' and 'Bioware'. It's not the result of being an exemplary game.
 
If it had been released under the name "Planet Battles: The New Alliance" and was made by a less known developer it would have had a fraction of its initial success.
 


 

Not that it is relevant but can you somehow provides evidence for those claims?

You know...to prove how things would be if they were not the way they are...because any premise will be true in circular reasoning...

 

I can make exactly same opposite argument, with the exception I have the evidence supporting my claims: box sales.

TES IP was never selling good until it was released on consoles therefore this sole fact invalidates any suggestions that TES PC MMO should stick to TES single player games concept.

 


Unfortunately for you, MMO development is a business like any other therefore your opinions based on personal bias matters a little.

The Star Wars and Bioware names definitely sold the majority of units. There's a reason brand names are worth millions. The only evidence I have is common sense.

 

As for the elder scrolls games, the fact that they didn't sell as well before porting to console is a result of the vast majority of gamers being console gamers. There is no correlation between that and it being necessary to change the core of what made the elder scrolls games unique since that stayed pretty much the same throughout their success.

 

 

  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

5/05/12 10:26:41 AM#64
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by SEANMCAD

that doesnt make any sense
first off assuming you know the actual sales numbers and your claim is correct the game on the consoles is also a single player game is it not? how do you go from consoles sale high to that is why they dont need to stick to the single player concepts


 

It does makes sense, you just don't get it. 2 different things.

My assumptions about sales have solid base, ie:

http://www.dailytech.com/The+Elder+Scrolls+V+Skyrim+Tops+34+Million+Retail+Sales+in+First+2+Days/article23293.htm

Only 14% sales of Skyrim are credited to PC platform. You can go and dig out more info but it will be about the same.


Because the game actually sells high on consoles only, it would be unreasonable to make an MMO inaccessible to majority of your fan base, therefore it is better to make it out as game catering to mainstream MMO population.

Sorry no it doesn't make sense. It seems you are assuming because people bought a console version that they wouldn't buy an mmo version for pc. One doesn't exclude the other. Furthermore It's simply illogical to go from making it inaccessible to the majority to alienate the entire fanbase by making it generic mainstream.

That's exactly what it seems they are doing, alienating the fanbase seeing the information out there.

  User Deleted
5/05/12 10:39:25 AM#65

<begin rant>

It's not a bad idea... it's a really horrible horrible one.

 

I had some few hopes when they first announced it, but after reading the info from Game Informer.... noooouuu whyyyy why are you doing this???

 

It's getting everything wrong about the Elder Scrolls.

 

:P

<end of rant>

  Kakkzooka

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/06/11
Posts: 602

5/05/12 10:39:42 AM#66

Creslin has some salient points. If Bethesda's core team was working on this, however, I think we currently might have a bit more optimism. They have a solid foundation with the RPG elements, and they're no slouches at creating storylines that are told within the visuals of the game and not just narratively - so there's a potential to evolve the world of Tamriel into something more memorable.

Re: SWTOR

"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"

  User Deleted
5/05/12 10:42:48 AM#67
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by LizardEgypt
Originally posted by Distopia

My word they're starting early with this stuff... its only a bad idea if it doesn't turn out to be a good MMO. THe features I've seen thus far do not scream WOW to me at all. But hey think what you want.

People seem too happy to just look forward to one game, rather than welcome other options, that's the way I see it.

THis is not a SP TES game, conventions there really shouldn't judge the way in which an MMO is approached. There's little coherent way to take that and place it into an MMO, without having a free-for-all cluster****. I'll wait to see what the game is from the ground up before making any judgements for or against.

Tab Target, Classes, Instanced PVP, Group Dungeon Endgame, Heroic Dungeons. 

That just says MMO to me, I've played many, never really WOW though (lvl 20 was the pinnacle of my WOW experience). ANd sorry endgame for me will be three way PVP. I couldn't care less what they do for PVE end-game.

More like themepark MMO ;).

There are plenty of MMO's that don't have those mechanics.  Even though it's a crappy game, I actually liked the FPS combat in Darkfall because it reminded me of...oh you know, the Elder Scrolls lol.

I had hoped that if Bethesda ever made an ES:O game that they would do that style of combat justice.  Unfortunately, Bethesda never did make an ES:O game, and they are not working on one now ;).

+1000

Completely agree, this is not an Elder Scrolls game. And there are plenty of generic MMOs out there.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7191

5/05/12 11:21:06 AM#68


Originally posted by Lucioon

Its a bad idea because they could have set it in any world and its still be the same exact game. It can be set in Modern Day Earth, Star gate universe, Hello Kitty Universe, GTA universe and it will be the exact same game that they are developing.

You say that they could use any IP, you do not say why they should not use TES IP therefore making it a bad idea.



Originally posted by toddze

TES selling good on consoles vs. PC has absolutly nothing to do with the games concepts.

It does if you consider to make a game based on the franchise, it helps defining your potential customer base.

In this case the concept made the game popular among customer base that would be cut off from the game.


Originally posted by Indol

The Star Wars and Bioware names definitely sold the majority of units.
 

Same question: Can you back up any of those claims?


I never expressed any implication about supposed correlation. I only say that PC fan base is not large enough to make an MMO with similar features as single player games of the same franchise.

If the MMO was released on consoles as well, it would be whole another story but it is not...


Originally posted by Connmacart

Sorry no it doesn't make sense. It seems you are assuming because people bought a console version that they wouldn't buy an mmo version for pc. One doesn't exclude the other. Furthermore It's simply illogical to go from making it inaccessible to the majority to alienate the entire fanbase by making it generic mainstream.
That's exactly what it seems they are doing, alienating the fanbase seeing the information out there.

Good point.

But my assumptions isn't as baseless, imo.

The thing is, the same game was sold on all platforms therefore you have good resemblance what platforms are preferred - same product, different platform.

It is not illogical to make the game more mainstream as you are not only alienate minor PC fan base, you also attract majority MMO base(something console gamers are not).


On another note, Skyrim strict transition into MMO would result in something like Darkfall and TES IP would unlikely save it from same not very successful destiny.


Then again, if the game was released for consoles as a multi-platform MMO, then surely go ahead.

  Silax

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/04
Posts: 256

5/05/12 11:31:25 AM#69

The TES online announcement kind of fits in with the rest of the news this week.  Crappy jobs report, MCA died, and now they are going to butcher a great gaming franchise.  

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1939

5/05/12 11:33:36 AM#70

Who is to say they aren't planning on making a seperate and distinct TES MMO for consoles later on?  Let's face it, the MMO market is still biggest on the PC platform and appears to be struggling as it tries to infiltrate the console market.  So, maybe their move is to diversify, go with the PC audience first since it's more of a shoe in, then modify or create a new MMO for the console market based on action combat.  I see a lot of oddball reasoning on why this effort will fail, but most of it really boils down to the spaz monkies not liking the tab target combat.  So what if it was a mainstay of the single player games, it's certainly not the most popular mechanic in current MMOs.  There are still a lof of us in the genre who are not interested in MMOFPSs, we want our damn MMORPGs.

  kartool

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 473

5/05/12 11:36:46 AM#71

The MMO is being made by a completely different studio and Bethesda will still be supporting Skyrim and working on future TES titles so we should all just ignore this game and let it die the quiet death it deserves.

  AdamTM

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 1395

I'M PUNCHING YOUR SALAD!!!!

5/05/12 11:37:19 AM#72
Originally posted by Creslin321

I know there are a lot of posts talking about how this game is a WoW clone or what not, and you're probably thinking...not another one!  But hear me out...I think there is a very specific reason why this game is just a bad idea.

First off, think about the Elder Scrolls games...what makes them special?  

Is it the IP?  Is Tamriel a beloved world that people hoard collectibles about and dream of at night like Star Wars or LOTR?  No...I don't think so.  It's got a lot of lore for sure, but I don't think the Tamriel IP is anywhere close to the popularity of Star Wars or even Azeroth.

Is it the addicting progression mechanics?  No...not really.  You can get to "max level" in an Elder Scrolls game fairly quickly.  People are definitely not playing these games because they are addicted to a grind.

...So then what is it that makes these games so special?

I'll tell you.  It's the excellent open-ended gameplay.

People love these games because they allow you to explore an awesome, detailed world and really just pick whatever path you wish to follow.  But that's not all...part of what makes these games so excellent is the fact that the SAME CORE DEV TEAM has worked on Morrowwind, Oblivion, and Skyrim.

Now let's look at TES:Online.

This game is NOT developed by the team that made the previous Elder Scrolls games, and from all indications it will NOT have that open-ended gameplay that people have come to associate with TES.

So all it's left with is the brand and the IP.  And I'm sorry, that's not what makes Elder Scrolls special.  No one has a mint edition Emperor Whateverimus figure in their basement.  No, they have a vintage Han Solo figure or even freaking Hello Kitty.

The TES IP is just not popular enough to base everything on and frankly, I think that's what they are doing.  They are just trying to make a "traditional MMO" set in Tamriel.

Good luck with that.

 

3 badzilion people argued against me in the other thread for saying this.

good luck

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

5/05/12 11:43:03 AM#73
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Lucioon
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Creslin321

I think that's what they are doing.  They are just trying to make a "traditional MMO" set in Tamriel.
 


 

You skipped the part explaining why this is supposedly bad idea...

Its a bad idea because they could have set it in any world and its still be the same exact game. It can be set in Modern Day Earth, Star gate universe, Hello Kitty Universe, GTA universe and it will be the exact same game that they are developing.

Without utilizing what made the IP popular in the first place, it just seem to be using tamriel as a attention and hype generator 

Doesn't mean it will be a bad MMO, and that's all that really matters is it not?

But it will ruin the name of Elder Scrolls, thats what alot of the fans is worry about, they won't play this MMO but they don't want its failure to hinder the development of the next Single Player Elder Scrolls.

The fans don't want this MMO to ruin their IP

currently like what creslin said, its just using the name of Tamriel to get the attention of the masses, and lure in the uninformed and gullible.

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  LizardEgypt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 359

Hmm ?

5/05/12 11:43:43 AM#74

The ES series has been on consoles since Morrowind. The 'X360' crowd has just as much interest in this franchise as PC gamers do, if not more with the release of Skyrim. Therefore why not shoot for that crowd as well? Most people own computers, most $500 walmart laptops can run games moderately well these days, so why cut out a huge population by making your new game totally unfamiliar with the original franchise? I think that's my big issue here in terms of why I think their design is a bad idea, it's not like they said "Let's pull something really unique and awesome out here, might take the fans a while to adjust but it'll be worth it in the end." You can see based on the leaked features what this game's goal was. They aren't trying to pull anyone in WITH FAMILIAR GAMEPLAY they are trying to use the Elder Scrolls name on a game that doesn't even need it. 

Like someone pointed out with SWTOR, the game itself was pretty horrible. Most of the people I knew who went to it (Around 20+ for comparison sake) went to it because it had the words 'Bioware' and 'Star Wars'. None of us kept our sub after the free month. That game will survive for a while, but not because it's anything great, it's going to keep drawing players in because of the company and the beloved IP. The key thing about the Elder Scrolls is that it's seems to have stemmed into that realm of being the immersion free-roam RPG that even non-rpg players can get into. I know guys who would never touch World of Warcraft or even Diablo 2, but they grab Skyrim and take screenshots of their characters and items and stuff. It's managed to bridge to a really popular state due to what it offers and the atmosphere it provides.

MMORPG gamers themselves are getting tired, that's why there's such a negative reception. It's not like we want this game to suck, I'm to the point where I'm not going to be fooled again. I got fooled with Warhammer, wasted my time and money, got fooled again with SWTOR despite my gut feelings and I won't be fooled a third time because of the Elder Scrolls name. Perhaps it's just Bethesda/Zenimax's bad luck and timing, perhaps they developed the game with perfectly good intentions originally back in 2007, but I'm not going to fall for another MMORPG designed around the same old principles with a few new gimmicks, especially not on a franchise I expected much better from. If BIoware can make a crappy game, Bethesda/Zenimax is more than capable.  

I can totally understand why you all think it's too early to judge this game harshly, it's true, it's very nerdy and angry to be so negative so soon, but I've already seen enough. This early means there is time for Zenimax to hear our complaints and perhaps make some changes or tweaks that will satisfy both sides of the arguments. If we wait until absolutely every detail has been released, or beta, it's too late. Many games have recieved negative criticism post launch and mananged to change for the better as they lived on but with diminished player interest. Think of it in the best interest of players AND the company to try and make the shift. 

Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

5/05/12 11:52:11 AM#75
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Lucioon

Its a bad idea because they could have set it in any world and its still be the same exact game. It can be set in Modern Day Earth, Star gate universe, Hello Kitty Universe, GTA universe and it will be the exact same game that they are developing.


 

You say that they could use any IP, you do not say why they should not use TES IP therefore making it a bad idea.

 


 The reason why they should not use TES IP is because they took away what made TES , TES!
Not only are you no longer a character that can become anything you want, you are also bound to a specific faction based on race and class.
Just from my experiences from Morrowind and Skyrim, I can become a mage, warrior, ranger, thief or any combination of them, join any faction I want, thief guild, brotherhood of assassins, warriors guild. I can kill the person i was send to help. And have a house to display all my collectible loots. I can stay out of political factions and just journey into the world if thats what i want.
Instead, I am now bound by race to a faction, bound by class. Its just not a TES game if you have ever played any of the TES games before.

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  Uhwop

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1664

5/05/12 11:53:00 AM#76
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by LizardEgypt

 

Wow his argument flies right over your head.
 


 

Yes, it does as it has no solid ground whatsoever.

You only rephrased what I said already, making same invalid conclusions as OP.

 

With or without "TES features", the IP is not strong enough therefore it is reasonable to use the lore and make what you consider "mediocre and generic game" because apparently those games are where the money is.


And I am still waiting on explanation how bad this idea - using the TES lore, is...

 12 million people didn't buy skyrim for the lore.

Argue whatever you want, deny it all you like, the fact is most people aren't buying ES games because of the lore and story.  Bethesda has admitted that themselves; even stating what their entire product vision for the ES franshise is.  From the moment they made Arena, the enite point of the ES series was to develop a WORLD that you could explore and do whatever you wanted in.

 

You people who seem to think that unless an MMO plays like EQ/ WoW are the biggest problem with the genre frankly.  You guys are some of the first to tell other they need to think outside the box, while at the same time telling everyone if it doesn't play a specific way that it's not an mmo.  You people will go so far as to tell everyone that FPS combat isn't an RPG, as though ROLE PLAYING GAME somehow means something other then the ability to ROLE PLAY in a game.  I'm seeing people telling other peopel that an ES game has to be like EQ/ WoW because it has to have dice rolls and ability toggles in order to be an RPG! 

Some of you must not have played very many PC RPG's in the 80's and 90's, and I do know that most of you don't even know what the first MMO was; thinking it was UO and it wasn't.

The PC RPG's I remember playing as a kid were all FPV, and eventually started using FPS style combat. 

And the first MMO wasn't UO, it was Meridian 59, and it was FPV with FPS style combat.

There is no rule that states a game must play a specific way, or have specific elements to be an RPG, let alone an MMO.  The only rule is what can the devs do with available technology, and will the fans like it.  In the case of TESO, if the leak is true, no the fans won't like it.  Doesn't mean that it can't be a good game, it just won't be a true ES games.  Weaver was always very clear about the product vision of the ES franchise.

I'm seeing way to many people trying to convince others that their personal preference in gameplay mechanic is the only way something can be done right.  Most all of you are wrong, period.

  DogPeeOnTree

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/09
Posts: 95

5/05/12 11:55:14 AM#77

Cant we all just fuckin wait bout 1 teaser,gameplay vid to be released to actually see how combat is,graphics,enviroment how is it.Is it vast open world or linear like stupid aion.Just stop with those  speculations from 10pictures 

  Uhwop

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1664

5/05/12 11:59:24 AM#78
Originally posted by DogPeeTree

Cant we all just fuckin wait bout 1 teaser,gameplay vid to be released to actually see how combat is,graphics,enviroment how is it.Is it vast open world or linear like stupid aion.Just stop with those  speculations from 10pictures 

 Seriously.

Lot of people are going to feel like complete fools if this turns out to be a Game informer/ Bethesda promotional stunt, or some guys idea of an epic luz.

 

  LizardEgypt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 359

Hmm ?

5/05/12 12:00:25 PM#79
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by DogPeeTree

Cant we all just fuckin wait bout 1 teaser,gameplay vid to be released to actually see how combat is,graphics,enviroment how is it.Is it vast open world or linear like stupid aion.Just stop with those  speculations from 10pictures 

 Seriously.

Lot of people are going to feel like complete fools if this turns out to be a Game informer/ Bethesda promotional stunt, or some guys idea of an epic luz.

 

The fact that we think it has the potential to be a joke, just goes to show how bad it actually is. Most of that article sounds comical as if they are poking fun at themselves, and the 'What's in Whats out' sounds also like a joke.

Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7191

5/05/12 12:03:44 PM#80


Originally posted by Lucioon
 

The reason why they should not use TES IP is because they took away what made TES , TES![

Not only are you no longer a character that can become anything you want, you are also bound to a specific faction based on race and class.

Just from my experiences from Morrowind and Skyrim, I can become a mage, warrior, ranger, thief or any combination of them, join any faction I want, thief guild, brotherhood of assassins, warriors guild. I can kill the person i was send to help. And have a house to display all my collectible loots. I can stay out of political factions and just journey into the world if thats what i want.

Instead, I am now bound by race to a faction, bound by class. Its just not a TES game if you have ever played any of the TES games before.


1) That does not imply anything, you just state that they took something from TES single player games and they should not do it.

2) Same as above.

3) I do not see any relation between what you want and what makes a successful business such as TESO.

4) Same as 1&2)


Originally posted by Uhwop

12 million people didn't buy skyrim for the lore.

Already cover this in my previous posts but:

The problem with those 12M sales is that vast majority are console sales and if you release the MMO for different platform, you are effectively losing good chunk of potential customers and at this point it does not sound unreasonable to cater a majority of the market you venture to - mainstream MMO audience.

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