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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Why this game is a bad idea

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106 posts found
  VincentFoxy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/12
Posts: 11

5/05/12 2:12:36 AM#41

another problem i have with the elderscrolls games is that the more games the make, the simpler they get if the gameplay gets any simpler it wont be much of an RPG anymore, i love the hack n' slash and stuff from skyrim, but it feels as if it misses to much stuff in it, there isnt very many skills, there is still so much more they can do with the character creation system, they actually kind of simplified a lot in the character creation system whil adding alittle more to it. if they simplify the gameplay anymore i probably wont play elderscrolls anymore.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6908

5/05/12 2:14:14 AM#42


Originally posted by VincentFoxy

it's being made by bethesda right?


No, it is not. It is developed by Zenimax Online studios since 2007 or so.


Originally posted by VincentFoxy

i love the hack n' slash and stuff from skyrim, but it feels as if it misses to much stuff in it, there isnt very many skills, there is still so much more they can do with the character creation system, they actually kind of simplified a lot in the character creation system whil adding alittle more to it. if they simplify the gameplay anymore i probably wont play elderscrolls anymore.

Skyrim needed to be simplified as it was released also for consoles.

  VincentFoxy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/12
Posts: 11

5/05/12 2:17:11 AM#43

oh, well then it's probably going to suck then, just saying.

 

and also, just because it''s on consoles too doesnt mean it has to be simplified, its' already simplififed enough when they made oblivion. and im not talking about the controles, the controles are great, i mean the skill system, character developement and so on.

in my oppinion, consoles are ruining a good bit of games. although i dont like to play anything unless i can play it with a controller.

  McGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/05
Posts: 1035

"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering" -Master Yoda

5/05/12 2:28:18 AM#44

The thread should have been titled, "Why this thread is a bad idea." The game literally has no info out on it yet and the OP posts this negative rant? Nice.

  Trionicus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 488

5/05/12 2:39:10 AM#45
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by LizardEgypt

 

Wow his argument flies right over your head.


 

Yes, it does as it has no solid ground whatsoever.

You only rephrased what I said already, making same invalid conclusions as OP.

 

With or without "TES features", the IP is not strong enough therefore it is reasonable to use the lore and make what you consider "mediocre and generic game" because apparently those games are where the money is.


And I am still waiting on explanation how bad this idea - using the TES lore, is...

For the third time...

It's a bad idea because the ES IP is not what makes the Elder Scrolls great games.  The ES IP isn't anywhere close to the same weight class as a more popular IP like Mario, Zelda, Star Wars, or Final Fantasy.

Think about it this way...if Nintendo came out with a Tetris like game that features Mario...would people buy it?  YES, and they did...Dr. Mario.  People bought the game because they love Mario.  It is a valuable IP.  If the game were called "Super Pill Quest" it would not have done nearly as well I'm sure.

Now if Bethesda came out with Elder Scrolls Puzzle Quest where you have to solve visual puzzles inside Tiber Septim's palace ala Myst...do you think it would instantly do well because it is "Elder Scrolls?"  I really don't think it would.  If anything, it would succeed on fail on its own merit, and it would probably confuse a lot of people who were expecting an Elder Scrolls game.

The point is that what makes the ES games good is the open-ended gameplay and the fact that the same dev team has always worked on them, giving them a feel of progressive quality...each one just gets better and doesn't lose much.

ES:O has neither of these.  It's made by a COMPLETELY different team, and it's a completely different kind of game.  So the only thing it really "gains" from being an ES game is the IP.  And that's probably the least valuable aspect of the ES franchise.

Now if you want to argue against this...that's fine.  But please don't respond saying you are still waiting on an explanation.

 


+1

ES doesn't carry that kind of household weight, even my Mom in her 60's knows about Mario. If I said Elder Scrolls to her I would get a blank stare. Just think about it for a minute.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6908

5/05/12 2:43:14 AM#46


Originally posted by Trionicus

+1
ES doesn't carry that kind of household weight

False premise that it should or needs to.


IP "weight" is not crucible for the franchise.

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5181

5/05/12 8:18:34 AM#47
Originally posted by Distopia

My word they're starting early with this stuff... its only a bad idea if it doesn't turn out to be a good MMO. THe features I've seen thus far do not scream WOW to me at all. But hey think what you want.

People seem too happy to just look forward to one game, rather than welcome other options, that's the way I see it.

THis is not a SP TES game, conventions there really shouldn't judge the way in which an MMO is approached. There's little coherent way to take that and place it into an MMO, without having a free-for-all cluster****. I'll wait to see what the game is from the ground up before making any judgements for or against.

having classes and calling it a TES MMOS is a bit like filling a room with prositutes and calling it a monastery . The .   

Correlation does not imply causation

  Half_Man_Half_Toon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 161

5/05/12 8:26:41 AM#48

I dunno if you notice but allot of developers want to make it big here becouse this is where the money is at.  Dont be suprice on the future if Call Of Duty and Battlefield Comes along and make a MMO   Look at  Mechwarrior, Star Wars, Mass Effect, and future one's are coming to the MMO trust me.  this is where the money is and I had a few friends that went to ITT Tech To Study to make games and after seeing  NCSOFt,Blizzard, Buildings  I think The gaming World Is Changing.  I also Heard That The New Xbox 720 Console can have a MMO type of Community on Games and is just a Rumor.

  DSWBeef

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 771

5/05/12 8:40:57 AM#49
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Distopia

My word they're starting early with this stuff... its only a bad idea if it doesn't turn out to be a good MMO. THe features I've seen thus far do not scream WOW to me at all. But hey think what you want.

People seem too happy to just look forward to one game, rather than welcome other options, that's the way I see it.

THis is not a SP TES game, conventions there really shouldn't judge the way in which an MMO is approached. There's little coherent way to take that and place it into an MMO, without having a free-for-all cluster****. I'll wait to see what the game is from the ground up before making any judgements for or against.

having classes and calling it a TES MMOS is a bit like filling a room with prositutes and calling it a monastery . The .   

Oh i love this quote.

Playing: Archeage Alpha, War Thunder, World of Tanks
Waiting on: Archeage, Wild Star, Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  Indol

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 192

5/05/12 9:29:26 AM#50
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Distopia

As everyone said with TOR you don't design an MMO around what your single-player fans want, and they did, that seems to have been a mistake.


 

Yeah, such a bad idea that catapulted SWTOR into no.2 MMO on western market...

I can only wish I had such bad ideas too.

What success SWTOR has had is a result of the words 'Star Wars' and 'Bioware'. It's not the result of being an exemplary game.

 

If it had been released under the name "Planet Battles: The New Alliance" and was made by a less known developer it would have had a fraction of its initial success.

 

This leads to the point a lot of people are trying to make, and that is: If you're going to make a game using a respected IP, make sure you stay true to what makes the IP so beloved or risk shortening the success and longevity of the game.

 

In other words, the elder scrolls games are a unique entity in the gaming world more-or-less and that has made the series very succesful. This uniqueness should be the centerpiece of ESO, otherwise they're not playing to the series' strengths and may ultimately alienate the fans of the series. Let's put it this way, why would a company ditch what made them successful in the first place? Especially if they're giving it up to be more like dozens of other game options.

 

The thing that really gets me is that ESO won't even be released until next year at minimum. People are already tired of seeing the same ole' same ole' in their MMO's, and judging by what's been released so far, Zenimax is looking to do more of the same for the most part. They're exceptionally late to the party I think. In fact they may miss the party altogether by the time ESO is released.

  mefistofelis

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/08
Posts: 14

5/05/12 9:42:39 AM#51

Why this game is a bad idea:

1)can they make the same combat system like the the single player? NO (actually they dont want to....i refuse to accept that a small company like aventurine (darkfall) did it and they cannot,(yes i know darkfall has problems but it is a really big step towards,at  least their combat system is).

2)can they make a "real" and simless open world?NO,even the single player game has loading screens.(Although i must say they are not braking immersion too much).

3)Can they bring the true sandbox feel of the single player games in the mmo setting?NO (actually they wont even try they already said that you are limited to certain roles...)

I could go on but i think you get the point....

Anyway a tes game without the above is NOT a tes game...If they do it properly i will be the first to support them but their statements are ruther disapointing.

I play games since the cassete (commodore etc)era and its bloody heartbraking to see the companies lose their passion for gaming and roll only for the money.

  Kwintpod

Gumshoe

Joined: 9/19/09
Posts: 269

5/05/12 9:51:31 AM#52

Why this game isn't necesarily a bad idea:

1)It will coexist with the single player player TES games we all know and love

2) Chances are it won't be worse than other popular, non-revolutionary MMOS like Wow,Lotr, Rift,Swtor, GW2,etc

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5181

5/05/12 9:53:43 AM#53
Originally posted by Kwintpod

Why this game isn't necesarily a bad idea:

1)It will coexist with the single player player TES games we all know and love

2) Chances are it won't be worse than other popular, non-revolutionary MMOS like Wow,Lotr, Rift,Swtor, GW2,etc

1. the vast majority of TES fans will very likely not play nor buy the game.

2. if its the same as other games the question remains, why would a play who is playing those games stop and play this one?

Correlation does not imply causation

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6908

5/05/12 9:56:29 AM#54


Originally posted by Indol

What success SWTOR has had is a result of the words 'Star Wars' and 'Bioware'. It's not the result of being an exemplary game.
 
If it had been released under the name "Planet Battles: The New Alliance" and was made by a less known developer it would have had a fraction of its initial success.
 

Not that it is relevant but can you somehow provides evidence for those claims?

You know...to prove how things would be if they were not the way they are...because any premise will be true in circular reasoning...

I can make exactly same opposite argument, with the exception I have the evidence supporting my claims: box sales.

TES IP was never selling good until it was released on consoles therefore this sole fact invalidates any suggestions that TES PC MMO should stick to TES single player games concept.


Unfortunately for you, MMO development is a business like any other therefore your opinions based on personal bias matters a little.

  Kwintpod

Gumshoe

Joined: 9/19/09
Posts: 269

5/05/12 9:57:43 AM#55
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Kwintpod

Why this game isn't necesarily a bad idea:

1)It will coexist with the single player player TES games we all know and love

2) Chances are it won't be worse than other popular, non-revolutionary MMOS like Wow,Lotr, Rift,Swtor, GW2,etc

1. the vast majority of TES fans will very likely not play nor buy the game.

2. if its the same as other games the question remains, why would a play who is playing those games stop and play this one?

1) Keep in mind that a very small percentage of the playerbase visits forums,this recent outcry does in no way represent the "vast majority"

2) For the same reasons other new MMOS are bought

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5181

5/05/12 9:59:43 AM#56
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Indol

What success SWTOR has had is a result of the words 'Star Wars' and 'Bioware'. It's not the result of being an exemplary game.
 
If it had been released under the name "Planet Battles: The New Alliance" and was made by a less known developer it would have had a fraction of its initial success.
 


 

 

TES IP was never selling good until it was released on consoles therefore this sole fact invalidates any suggestions that TES PC MMO should stick to TES single player games concept.

 

that doesnt make any sense

first off assuming you know the actual sales numbers and your claim is correct the game on the consoles is also a single player game is it not? how do you go from consoles sale high to that is why they dont need to stick to the single player concepts

Correlation does not imply causation

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15528

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/05/12 10:05:46 AM#57
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Distopia

My word they're starting early with this stuff... its only a bad idea if it doesn't turn out to be a good MMO. THe features I've seen thus far do not scream WOW to me at all. But hey think what you want.

People seem too happy to just look forward to one game, rather than welcome other options, that's the way I see it.

THis is not a SP TES game, conventions there really shouldn't judge the way in which an MMO is approached. There's little coherent way to take that and place it into an MMO, without having a free-for-all cluster****. I'll wait to see what the game is from the ground up before making any judgements for or against.

having classes and calling it a TES MMOS is a bit like filling a room with prositutes and calling it a monastery . The .   

ANd this has what to do with my post? (insert wise-crack retort here)

Uhgg forums...

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6908

5/05/12 10:10:02 AM#58


Originally posted by SEANMCAD

that doesnt make any sense
first off assuming you know the actual sales numbers and your claim is correct the game on the consoles is also a single player game is it not? how do you go from consoles sale high to that is why they dont need to stick to the single player concepts

It does makes sense, you just don't get it. 2 different things.

My assumptions about sales have solid base, ie:

http://www.dailytech.com/The+Elder+Scrolls+V+Skyrim+Tops+34+Million+Retail+Sales+in+First+2+Days/article23293.htm

Only 14% sales of Skyrim are credited to PC platform. You can go and dig out more info but it will be about the same.


Because the game actually sells high on consoles only, it would be unreasonable to make an MMO inaccessible to majority of your fan base, therefore it is better to make it out as game catering to mainstream MMO population.

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

5/05/12 10:18:37 AM#59
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Creslin321

I think that's what they are doing.  They are just trying to make a "traditional MMO" set in Tamriel.
 


 

You skipped the part explaining why this is supposedly bad idea...

Its a bad idea because they could have set it in any world and its still be the same exact game. It can be set in Modern Day Earth, Star gate universe, Hello Kitty Universe, GTA universe and it will be the exact same game that they are developing.

Without utilizing what made the IP popular in the first place, it just seem to be using tamriel as a attention and hype generator 

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  toddze

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2196

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

5/05/12 10:20:08 AM#60
Originally posted by Gdemami

 



TES IP was never selling good until it was released on consoles therefore this sole fact invalidates any suggestions that TES PC MMO should stick to TES single player games concept.

 

 

what?!?!

TES selling good on consoles vs. PC has absolutly nothing to do with the games concepts. The game concepts are just the same.

Holding true to your fans works out in the end. FFXI held true to the FF standards. IMO when FF series hit an MMO I couldnt think of a better way to do it. You journey around with a group of your friend, doing "stuff" FF was always about team work and a open world. (at the time XI was being developed, not now though) say what you want about XI but FFXI is on of the top grossing mmo's of all time. I could go on an on but you should get the point.

Aleinating your fans has a disasterous effect in the end. FFXIV gutted the traditional FF feeling in favor of the easy-mode wow approach, and look where that landed them. Ever since release they have been frantically trying to re-create the game to make it more FF'ish. I doubt the ever get it there, as I have lost hope in ever getting a new great PVE sandbox MMO. 

TES gutting what made the elder scrolls great to begin with will result in a catastrophic mess. Spend the money hold true to what you are and will come out ahead in the end.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

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