Ever since DAOC.

Have you guys seen this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPZHsfa6gEs&feature=relmfu

Just incredible how tactical this battle was, so much more then just trying to bash the door, these guys take a heavilly defended camp. they have sepperated teams for delivering supply and use the terrain to their advantage.  Actually it sounds like there is much more tactics involved then in DAoC.

for sure a blast.

i loved how i could go it in a small group, solo, or zerg and still get stuff done.

That was EPIC! Thanks for the video. WvW is far more complex than I thought.

I like how planning and tactics are used, but I cannot help but feel that, at the end of the day, it all degenerates into a zerg-fest. I will almost certainly give the game a try (having no subscription cost is a key factor in this), but I am metering my expectations. It is difficult to pull off large-scale PvP in games like this, and I am not convinced that they have done it.

EDIT: I also want to add that the excessive use of AOE in that video is a BIG turn-off for a lot of people. I am frightened at how much it looks like Warhammer Online. Warhammer had some good things going for it, but AOE being such a huge part of group PvP was not one of those things.

Posted this a while ago but this really is the sort of video that everyone, even the least bit interested, in GW2's WvW must see. My favourite bit was the Mesmer portals.

Thank you! Since there is no beta this weekend, this is the next best thing!

This battble is a perfect example of what makes GW2 so great! So reminisent of DAoC!

Originally posted by ironhelix

I like how planning and tactics are used, but I cannot help but feel that, at the end of the day, it all degenerates into a zerg-fest. I will almost certainly give the game a try (having no subscription cost is a key factor in this), but I am metering my expectations. It is difficult to pull off large-scale PvP in games like this, and I am not convinced that they have done it.

EDIT: I also want to add that the excessive use of AOE in that video is a BIG turn-off for a lot of people. I am frightened at how much it looks like Warhammer Online. Warhammer had some good things going for it, but AOE being such a huge part of group PvP was not one of those things.

AOE's hit maxium of 5 targets, so it's not as deadly as it might seem. I share some of your worries though, but this video is epic :)

Here is an other great video, pure action, not much strategy with siege and Castle involved like in OP vid, but still very interesting from a pure team work perspective. It also let you really see how some comabt aspect of the game work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbRYEE1k-xk

Haha, the Battle for Dreaming Bay. Definitely a movie title.

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Haha, the Battle for Dreaming Bay. Definitely a movie title.

Yeah. All it needs is some Hans Zimmer and it will be perfect. Maybe that's something I'll do come next beta weekend.

Nice video. Only thing that made me go 'meh' was the AOE, and yes it might hit 5 people at most but since all classes have aoe, so it is not just limited to 5 people.

Other than that looks great fun.

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Originally posted by vee41

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Originally posted by ironhelix

I like how planning and tactics are used, but I cannot help but feel that, at the end of the day, it all degenerates into a zerg-fest. I will almost certainly give the game a try (having no subscription cost is a key factor in this), but I am metering my expectations. It is difficult to pull off large-scale PvP in games like this, and I am not convinced that they have done it.
EDIT: I also want to add that the excessive use of AOE in that video is a BIG turn-off for a lot of people. I am frightened at how much it looks like Warhammer Online. Warhammer had some good things going for it, but AOE being such a huge part of group PvP was not one of those things.

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AOE's hit maxium of 5 targets, so it's not as deadly as it might seem. I share some of your worries though, but this video is epic :)

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The only problem with aoe imo is visual, it just is visually too much, but from a pure mechanism perspective, this in fact is the best anti zerg system. Once more watch the vid i linked to make sure to understand what i mean. With aoe you can really lock a zone, place an impassable barrier, place group trap and so on, so it bring a lot of strategy for sure. So if you have to criticize a system you also should keep in mind what it really bring to the table.

I played in wvwvw durring beta weekend. I have to say looking at it threw a video and playing it is a completely diferent expeciance. The best part is, actualy playing it is by far more exiting. I barely have any complaints about the game but seriously this secrion of the game took the cake.. started WvWvW with the sun up saying  "yeah ill give this a shot before getting back to running events".. Well the sun went down.. then came up again and i was still stuck inside the battle and barely noticed the time. Yeah thats right, i was in the WvWvW from about 7 pm est to 6:30 am est and barely noticed.. i was having WAY too much fun.

Originally posted by ironhelix

EDIT: I also want to add that the excessive use of AOE in that video is a BIG turn-off for a lot of people. I am frightened at how much it looks like Warhammer Online. Warhammer had some good things going for it, but AOE being such a huge part of group PvP was not one of those things.

Well, the way AoE  works, just keep out of the circles... AoE can be survived.

Focussed single target fire is much harder to survive. Remember the assist trains in some PvP games... You where dead when being targetted. The AoE tactics is probably just the easiest tactic for zergs, try to overcome it and you are a winner.

This is just the tip of the iceberg, i think that tactics will change during the game same as flavour of the month classes in other games.

Originally posted by ironhelix

I like how planning and tactics are used, but I cannot help but feel that, at the end of the day, it all degenerates into a zerg-fest. I will almost certainly give the game a try (having no subscription cost is a key factor in this), but I am metering my expectations. It is difficult to pull off large-scale PvP in games like this, and I am not convinced that they have done it.

EDIT: I also want to add that the excessive use of AOE in that video is a BIG turn-off for a lot of people. I am frightened at how much it looks like Warhammer Online. Warhammer had some good things going for it, but AOE being such a huge part of group PvP was not one of those things.

An unorganized purely zerg group would have never pulled off that keep siege.  

Yes, combat involving 50+ players on each side looks chaotic.  But massive numbers of players =/= zerg. Aoe does have a prominant role as well (though each AoE can hit no more than 5 players at once,) but there are also dozens of objectives perfectly suitable for smaller infiltration groups, such as the capturing of various supply points, the transportation of supply and the elimnation of supply caravans headed toward a keep you are sieging.  More than anything else though, it seems vital to build, properly place, and defend the various siege weapons, which just seems to broaden the scope of the warfare and pave the way for massive group tactics.  

As much as I loved DAoC, there just seemed to be so many more options in WvW in terms of activities that were productive for all group sizes. There's also the fact that DAoC eventually also devolved into 8 man groups chain assisting people down as a primary activity and the whole 'Whoever gets mez off first wins' deal. Taking and defending keeps was great fun in DAoC, but  they'd kind of let the rest of the battlefield play out in a way that wasn't as enjoyable for me.

Whether it was highjacking a Dolyak caravan (or guarding one on its route), taking out a supply post, taking down NPC invaders they'd sent our way or helping the main force, there just always seemed to be some area of the battle I could effect depending on the size of the group I ended up in. I still have a lot to learn about the details of it all, but so far it's been a lot of fun.

Originally posted by Valkaern

As much as I loved DAoC, there just seemed to be so many more options in WvW in terms of activities that were productive for all group sizes. There's also the fact that DAoC eventually also devolved into 8 man groups chain assisting people down as a primary activity and the whole 'Whoever gets mez off first wins' deal. Taking and defending keeps was great fun in DAoC, but  they'd kind of let the rest of the battlefield play out in a way that wasn't as enjoyable for me.

Whether it was highjacking a Dolyak caravan (or guarding one on its route), taking out a supply post, taking down NPC invaders they'd sent our way or helping the main force, there just always seemed to be some area of the battle I could effect depending on the size of the group I ended up in. I still have a lot to learn about the details of it all, but so far it's been a lot of fun.

Do people even remember the biggest source of AoE damage in DAoC was PBAoE.  

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by Valkaern

As much as I loved DAoC, there just seemed to be so many more options in WvW in terms of activities that were productive for all group sizes. There's also the fact that DAoC eventually also devolved into 8 man groups chain assisting people down as a primary activity and the whole 'Whoever gets mez off first wins' deal. Taking and defending keeps was great fun in DAoC, but  they'd kind of let the rest of the battlefield play out in a way that wasn't as enjoyable for me.

Whether it was highjacking a Dolyak caravan (or guarding one on its route), taking out a supply post, taking down NPC invaders they'd sent our way or helping the main force, there just always seemed to be some area of the battle I could effect depending on the size of the group I ended up in. I still have a lot to learn about the details of it all, but so far it's been a lot of fun.

Do people even remember the biggest source of AoE damage in DAoC was PBAoE.  

 

What I do remember is not fearing PBAoEs at all as a ranged class.

Yeah, it was a big source of damage...at doors where it was usually spammed. As a ranged class in DAoC it wasn't nearly the threat other ranged attacks were, as not being in PBAoEs was something you continually avoided as much as possible. 

Naturally they did more damage as they were harder to get off reliably.

Edit: Also, I'm not exactly sure what point that's making, if you don't mind clarifying.

Originally posted by Valkaern

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by Valkaern

As much as I loved DAoC, there just seemed to be so many more options in WvW in terms of activities that were productive for all group sizes. There's also the fact that DAoC eventually also devolved into 8 man groups chain assisting people down as a primary activity and the whole 'Whoever gets mez off first wins' deal. Taking and defending keeps was great fun in DAoC, but  they'd kind of let the rest of the battlefield play out in a way that wasn't as enjoyable for me.

Whether it was highjacking a Dolyak caravan (or guarding one on its route), taking out a supply post, taking down NPC invaders they'd sent our way or helping the main force, there just always seemed to be some area of the battle I could effect depending on the size of the group I ended up in. I still have a lot to learn about the details of it all, but so far it's been a lot of fun.

Do people even remember the biggest source of AoE damage in DAoC was PBAoE.  

 

What I do remember is not fearing PBAoEs at all as a ranged class.

Yeah, it was a big source of damage...at doors where it was usually spammed. As a ranged class in DAoC it wasn't nearly the threat other ranged attacks were, as not being in PBAoEs was something you continually avoided as much as possible. 

Naturally they did more damage as they were harder to get off reliably.

Edit: Also, I'm not exactly sure what point that's making, if you don't mind clarifying.