Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by LizardEgypt

 

Wow his argument flies right over your head.

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Yes, it does as it has no solid ground whatsoever.

You only rephrased what I said already, making same invalid conclusions as OP.

 

With or without "TES features", the IP is not strong enough therefore it is reasonable to use the lore and make what you consider "mediocre and generic game" because apparently those games are where the money is.

And I am still waiting on explanation how bad this idea - using the TES lore, is...

For the third time...

It's a bad idea because the ES IP is not what makes the Elder Scrolls great games.  The ES IP isn't anywhere close to the same weight class as a more popular IP like Mario, Zelda, Star Wars, or Final Fantasy.

Think about it this way...if Nintendo came out with a Tetris like game that features Mario...would people buy it?  YES, and they did...Dr. Mario.  People bought the game because they love Mario.  It is a valuable IP.  If the game were called "Super Pill Quest" it would not have done nearly as well I'm sure.

Now if Bethesda came out with Elder Scrolls Puzzle Quest where you have to solve visual puzzles inside Tiber Septim's palace ala Myst...do you think it would instantly do well because it is "Elder Scrolls?"  I really don't think it would.  If anything, it would succeed on fail on its own merit, and it would probably confuse a lot of people who were expecting an Elder Scrolls game.

The point is that what makes the ES games good is the open-ended gameplay and the fact that the same dev team has always worked on them, giving them a feel of progressive quality...each one just gets better and doesn't lose much.

ES:O has neither of these.  It's made by a COMPLETELY different team, and it's a completely different kind of game.  So the only thing it really "gains" from being an ES game is the IP.  And that's probably the least valuable aspect of the ES franchise.

Now if you want to argue against this...that's fine.  But please don't respond saying you are still waiting on an explanation.

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Originally posted by Creslin321

Think about it this way...if Nintendo came out with a Tetris like game that features Mario...would people buy it?  YES, and they did...Dr. Mario.  People bought the game because they love Mario.  It is a valuable IP.  If the game were called "Super Pill Quest" it would not have done nearly as well I'm sure.
Now if Bethesda came out with Elder Scrolls Puzzle Quest where you have to solve visual puzzles inside Tiber Septim's palace ala Myst...do you think it would instantly do well because it is "Elder Scrolls?"  I really don't think it would.
 

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You imply that only very popular IPs are worth to use.

This implication is completely stupid tho.

If that was your only argument why using TES IP is a bad idea....oh, well...

Originally posted by Creslin321

 

For the third time...

It's a bad idea because the ES IP is not what makes the Elder Scrolls great games. 

I have to disagree completely for me the lore is the most important aspect (the twine that holds it all together) WIthout it TES would just be games you can do as you please in (many of those have existed for years). It's the lore that adds so much substance, discovery and ultimately keeps me playing the series. No otther video- game has built such a vivid history within itself in such a way, not for a long time anyway.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Creslin321

Think about it this way...if Nintendo came out with a Tetris like game that features Mario...would people buy it?  YES, and they did...Dr. Mario.  People bought the game because they love Mario.  It is a valuable IP.  If the game were called "Super Pill Quest" it would not have done nearly as well I'm sure.
Now if Bethesda came out with Elder Scrolls Puzzle Quest where you have to solve visual puzzles inside Tiber Septim's palace ala Myst...do you think it would instantly do well because it is "Elder Scrolls?"  I really don't think it would.
 

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You imply that only very popular IPs are worth to use.

This implication is completely stupid tho.

The average Skyrim player is going to say "Oh look new Elder Scrolls game, Skyrim was pretty awesome I'll check it out" and see something completely different. The lore is not going to save them from saying "Well why isn't it first person and badass like the others?" 

The lore IS awesome, like I said I enjoyed just studying Dwemer stuff from within the game, but it's open-endedness allowed me to enjoy that lore however I wanted, in an immersive first person fashion. None of that is going to hold up in the new system. 

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Originally posted by LizardEgypt

The average Skyrim player is going to say "Oh look new Elder Scrolls game, Skyrim was pretty awesome I'll check it out" and see something completely different. The lore is not going to save them from saying "Well why isn't it first person and badass like the others?" 

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The average Skyrim player prefer his X360 over PC MMO.

It is you implying that the lore is supposed to "save them" and only way for the game to succeed.

As if IP could not be used to provide developed, rich game world...oh wait, it can...

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Creslin321

 

For the third time...

It's a bad idea because the ES IP is not what makes the Elder Scrolls great games. 

I have to disagree completely for me the lore is the most important aspect (the twine that holds it all together) WIthout it TES would just be games you can do as you please in (many of those have existed for years). It's the lore that adds so much substance, discovery and ultimately keeps me playing the series. No otther video- game has built such a vivid history within itself in such a way, not for a long time anyway.

I think that's a matter of playstyle. I honestly don't care much about TES lore. I like the stuff I read as I play, and the NPC interactions, but I don't like it enough to commit any of it to memory nor do I go looking for more information on it via the ingame books or anything. I know nothing of Morrowwind despite everyone claiming it is the pinnacle of gaming and storyline. 

I rushed out and bought Skyrim because I enjoyed the open-world feeling of Oblivion. The storyline, I didn't really care about, I just liked being free of restriction. It's the same reason I bought the Fallout games. I have almost 300 hours into Fallout 3 and I honestly couldn't tell you why anything that happened in it, happened. I sure had fun blowing up that town full of zombie-lookin' people, though...

I suppose that means people who loved TES for the gameplay are more disappointed than those who loved it for the Lore will be, which is fine. There are other games on the horizon that will satiate those open world desires. But it is disappointing if it turns out that TES:O isn't one of them.

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

I have to disagree completely for me the lore is the most important aspect (the twine that holds it all together) WIthout it TES would just be games you can do as you please in (many of those have existed for years). It's the lore that adds so much substance, discovery and ultimately keeps me playing the series. No otther video- game has built such a vivid history within itself in such a way, not for a long time anyway.

I think that's a matter of playstyle. I honestly don't care much about TES lore. I like the stuff I read as I play, and the NPC interactions, but I don't like it enough to commit any of it to memory nor do I go looking for more information on it via the ingame books or anything. I know nothing of Morrowwind despite everyone claiming it is the pinnacle of gaming and storyline. 

I rushed out and bought Skyrim because I enjoyed the open-world feeling of Oblivion. The storyline, I didn't really care about, I just liked being free of restriction. It's the same reason I bought the Fallout games. I have almost 300 hours into Fallout 3 and I honestly couldn't tell you why anything that happened in it, happened. I sure had fun blowing up that town full of zombie-lookin' people, though...

I suppose that means people who loved TES for the gameplay are more disappointed than those who loved it for the Lore will be, which is fine. There are other games on the horizon that will satiate those open world desires. But it is disappointing if it turns out that TES:O isn't one of them.

I can definitely see where you are coming from, although at present I'm under the impression it is open world, unless I'm mistaken, their questing system description alluded to it being so.

"quests found while exploring the open world rather than at quest hubs"-paraphrased.

I can see where people may think TES transitions better into a lawless free-for-all, I wouldn't be against the idea as long as lore and some story was still integrated into the experience. I just don't see that going over very well, as I said before I see it as being a proverbial cluster**** ready to happen.

Their wording says to me they want a game that isn't a pain to maintain, as well as don't want designs that could set them back in the future as far as forward development goes.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by LizardEgypt

The average Skyrim player is going to say "Oh look new Elder Scrolls game, Skyrim was pretty awesome I'll check it out" and see something completely different. The lore is not going to save them from saying "Well why isn't it first person and badass like the others?" 

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The average Skyrim player prefer his X360 over PC MMO.

It is you implying that the lore is supposed to "save them" and only reason for the game to success. As if IP could not be used to provide developed, rich game world...oh wait, it can...

Alright I'm done trying to explain it to you, you are missing every single point and it's really not worth the time of the three people trying to explain it to you. You asked why it was a bad idea and you're answering it with your own responses. 

We have never said the lore is the only reason the game would sell. We're saying that anyone who was interested in the main titles is going to look at this and say no, like many already have. Like you said, they prefer X360 over PC MMO, well what if they saw this awesome badass multiplayer Skyrim? It would sell to them much more than this would. You just admitted they are cutting out half their potential market by it being simply "PC MMO". A true Elder Scrolls multiplayer game wouldn't just be "PC MMO" it would be something else, something that would sell to people potentially not interested.

From the details we have, it's a WoW clone, every WoW clone in the past five years has failed to meet expectations. The Elder Scrolls franchise itself is not going to make a WoW clone any stronger of a game. That is what we're trying to say. Don't read into the IP stuff any further than that.

The OP's point can be broken down into two simple things.

- Traditional TES fans (including console gamers) are not going to see the appeal in this new game as a standard rpg with features missing.

- Serious MMORPG players are already voicing their negative opinions about the game's direction. 

Originally posted by LizardEgyptlly not interested.

From the details we have, it's a WoW clone, every WoW clone in the past five years has failed to meet expectations. The Elder Scrolls franchise itself is not going to make a WoW clone any stronger of a game. That is what we're trying to say. Don't read into the IP stuff any further than that.

Three way PVP

No trinity

no quest hubs (quests to be found while exploring the world)

Voice overs

active blocking

That's essentially the info we have

Raids (not a wow clone make)

Say what? Sounds more like an evolution to DAOC to me.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by gaeanprayer

I have to disagree completely for me the lore is the most important aspect (the twine that holds it all together) WIthout it TES would just be games you can do as you please in (many of those have existed for years). It's the lore that adds so much substance, discovery and ultimately keeps me playing the series. No otther video- game has built such a vivid history within itself in such a way, not for a long time anyway.

I think that's a matter of playstyle. I honestly don't care much about TES lore. I like the stuff I read as I play, and the NPC interactions, but I don't like it enough to commit any of it to memory nor do I go looking for more information on it via the ingame books or anything. I know nothing of Morrowwind despite everyone claiming it is the pinnacle of gaming and storyline. 

I rushed out and bought Skyrim because I enjoyed the open-world feeling of Oblivion. The storyline, I didn't really care about, I just liked being free of restriction. It's the same reason I bought the Fallout games. I have almost 300 hours into Fallout 3 and I honestly couldn't tell you why anything that happened in it, happened. I sure had fun blowing up that town full of zombie-lookin' people, though...

I suppose that means people who loved TES for the gameplay are more disappointed than those who loved it for the Lore will be, which is fine. There are other games on the horizon that will satiate those open world desires. But it is disappointing if it turns out that TES:O isn't one of them.

I can definitely see where you are coming from, although at present I'm under the impression it is open world, unless I'm mistaken, their questing system description alluded to it being so.

"quests found while exploring the open world rather than at quest hubs"-paraphrased.

I can see where people may think TES transitions better into a lawless free-for-all, I wouldn't be against the idea as long as lore and some story was still integrated into the experience. I just don't see that going over very well, as I said before I see it as being a proverbial cluster**** ready to happen.

Their wording says to me they want a game that isn't a pain to maintain, as well as don't want desigs that could set them back in the future as far as forward development goes.

 

Yeah, it depends really on how it works out. I mean, technically, Skyrim is full of quest hubs. Nearly every game is, if you think about it, it's all in how it's presented. So, while I'm cautiously pessimistic, I'm not as willing to brush the game off entirely as some. For me, the the major issues are more the enforced classes, and the whole heroic raids and what-not. I dislike raiding intensely, I find them an even more boring grind than just standing around killing things over and over. At least there, the amount of other peoples' suck doesn't affect me. Then enforced classes, ugh...it's not what I would expect from a TES-based game. I get WHY they did it - it's easier to balance and easier for people to not end up with terrible character builds - but I still don't like it. Not for a TES game. If TSW can do it, I'm positive TES could (and should) do it even better.

Still over a year away, so I'll see how it shapes up.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by LizardEgyptlly not interested.

From the details we have, it's a WoW clone, every WoW clone in the past five years has failed to meet expectations. The Elder Scrolls franchise itself is not going to make a WoW clone any stronger of a game. That is what we're trying to say. Don't read into the IP stuff any further than that.

Three way PVP

No trinity

no quest hubs (quests to be found while exploring the world)

Voice overs

active blocking

That's essentially the info we have

Say what? Sounds more like an evolution to DAOC to me.

 

Yes, I would love a new DAOC as well, but DAOC2 is not an elder scrolls game.

Originally posted by LizardEgypt

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by LizardEgyptlly not interested.

From the details we have, it's a WoW clone, every WoW clone in the past five years has failed to meet expectations. The Elder Scrolls franchise itself is not going to make a WoW clone any stronger of a game. That is what we're trying to say. Don't read into the IP stuff any further than that.

Three way PVP

No trinity

no quest hubs (quests to be found while exploring the world)

Voice overs

active blocking

That's essentially the info we have

Say what? Sounds more like an evolution to DAOC to me.

 

Yes, I would love a new DAOC as well, but DAOC2 is not an elder scrolls game.

I won't disagree with you, but if it turns out to be a worthy daoc-like with well done TES lore I certainly won't complain. I've been waiting for something like that since 2005.

I'd just consider the lore and familiarity a bonus =).

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Originally posted by LizardEgypt

you are missing every single point

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Just because I can point out invalidity of the point does not mean I am missing it. Your points have no ground.

Because TESO is not released on consoles, there is little reason to bring TES features into MMO as the remaining PC fan base - "serious MMORPG gamers", is minor.

It is just that your reasoning and conclusions are invalid, as well as your expectations are unreasonable.

TESO is not a sequel to TES games nor it is written anywhere it should be.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by LizardEgypt

you are missing every single point

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Just because I can point out invalidity of the point does not mean I am missing it. Your points have no ground.

Because TESO is not released on consoles, there is little reason to bring TES features into MMO as the remaining PC fan base - "serious MMORPG gamers", is minor.

It is just that your reasoning and conclusions are invalid, as well as your expectations are unreasonable.

TESO is not a sequel to TES games nor it is written anywhere it should be.

 

As yes the wise and all knowing opinion. You're talking to yourself from now on. 'Invalid' is your own opinion. Diehard TES fans aren't going to play this game, that's a bad marketing decision. Thus valid.

Good day!

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Originally posted by LizardEgypt

Diehard TES fans aren't going to play this game, that's a bad marketing decision.

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I think Zenimax can miss those 500 players. It's hardly bad marketing decision tho...

Originally posted by LizardEgypt

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As yes the wise and all knowing opinion. You're talking to yourself from now on. 'Invalid' is your own opinion. Diehard TES fans aren't going to play this game, that's a bad marketing decision. Thus valid.

Good day!

They have one who may play it (me), that's the thing that boggles my mind, how many are that set in a way of thought,  that they won't play a game that is good if it is good?

As everyone said with TOR you don't design an MMO around what your single-player fans want, and they did, that seems to have been a mistake.

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Originally posted by Distopia

As everyone said with TOR you don't design an MMO around what your single-player fans want, and they did, that seems to have been a mistake.

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Yeah, such a bad idea that catapulted SWTOR into no.2 MMO on western market...

I can only wish I had such bad ideas too.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Distopia

As everyone said with TOR you don't design an MMO around what your single-player fans want, and they did, that seems to have been a mistake.

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Yeah, such a bad idea that catapulted SWTOR into no.2 MMO on western market...

I can only wish I had such bad ideas too.

Notice the keyword "seems" I'm just going by the same litmus test this thread is born from, MMORPG.com. I really wouldn't be surpised to find the OP saying that in reference to TOR.

I don't think is a bad idea...

Why?

Tamriel have a long history, so we know...my point of view, when someone start an mmo the first test to make successful is a good world, what is make the peoples want to live in it (anno when wow started, i thought is a good world for dark fantasy, but what they do with it is dissapointed me, that is why I left...)

So, the only weak part is left for elder scroll mmo is the game mechanic and the walking space, and how much freedom we can get...etc.

my only worry with Elder Scrolls Online, if anyone hasnt already said this, is it's alittle too soon for them to already want to release another game. it's being made by bethesda right? i mean skyrim was only release a few months ago, im just worried that they just not going to spend the time on it that it needs to be a successful MMO. and iv seen screen, supposedly, if what it's suppose to look like, it doesnt even look like elderscrolls at all, if the screenshots were even taken from it. but if they think they can pull it off then more power to them.