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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Why this game is a bad idea

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106 posts found
  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  5/04/12 11:21:07 PM#1

I know there are a lot of posts talking about how this game is a WoW clone or what not, and you're probably thinking...not another one!  But hear me out...I think there is a very specific reason why this game is just a bad idea.

First off, think about the Elder Scrolls games...what makes them special?  

Is it the IP?  Is Tamriel a beloved world that people hoard collectibles about and dream of at night like Star Wars or LOTR?  No...I don't think so.  It's got a lot of lore for sure, but I don't think the Tamriel IP is anywhere close to the popularity of Star Wars or even Azeroth.

Is it the addicting progression mechanics?  No...not really.  You can get to "max level" in an Elder Scrolls game fairly quickly.  People are definitely not playing these games because they are addicted to a grind.

...So then what is it that makes these games so special?

I'll tell you.  It's the excellent open-ended gameplay.

People love these games because they allow you to explore an awesome, detailed world and really just pick whatever path you wish to follow.  But that's not all...part of what makes these games so excellent is the fact that the SAME CORE DEV TEAM has worked on Morrowwind, Oblivion, and Skyrim.

Now let's look at TES:Online.

This game is NOT developed by the team that made the previous Elder Scrolls games, and from all indications it will NOT have that open-ended gameplay that people have come to associate with TES.

So all it's left with is the brand and the IP.  And I'm sorry, that's not what makes Elder Scrolls special.  No one has a mint edition Emperor Whateverimus figure in their basement.  No, they have a vintage Han Solo figure or even freaking Hello Kitty.

The TES IP is just not popular enough to base everything on and frankly, I think that's what they are doing.  They are just trying to make a "traditional MMO" set in Tamriel.

Good luck with that.

 

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  maxiime223

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/08
Posts: 96

5/04/12 11:24:31 PM#2

i can do nothing but agree.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6971

5/04/12 11:24:55 PM#3


Originally posted by Creslin321

I think that's what they are doing.  They are just trying to make a "traditional MMO" set in Tamriel.
 

You skipped the part explaining why this is supposedly bad idea...

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15580

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/04/12 11:26:08 PM#4

My word they're starting early with this stuff... its only a bad idea if it doesn't turn out to be a good MMO. THe features I've seen thus far do not scream WOW to me at all. But hey think what you want.

People seem too happy to just look forward to one game, rather than welcome other options, that's the way I see it.

THis is not a SP TES game, conventions there really shouldn't judge the way in which an MMO is approached. There's little coherent way to take that and place it into an MMO, without having a free-for-all cluster****. I'll wait to see what the game is from the ground up before making any judgements for or against.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  5/04/12 11:30:08 PM#5
Originally posted by Distopia

My word they're starting early with this stuff... its only a bad idea if it doesn't turn out to be a good MMO. THe features I've seen thus far do not scream WOW to me at all. But hey think what you want.

I don't know if it will be terrible, but I'm pretty sure it has absolutely nothing to do with TES other than having the same name and being set in the same world.

I almost think it would have behooved them to title the game differently.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  NomadMorlock

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/09/07
Posts: 450

5/04/12 11:30:44 PM#6
Originally posted by Creslin321

I know there are a lot of posts talking about how this game is a WoW clone or what not, and you're probably thinking...not another one!  But hear me out...I think there is a very specific reason why this game is just a bad idea.

First off, think about the Elder Scrolls games...what makes them special?  

Is it the IP?  Is Tamriel a beloved world that people hoard collectibles about and dream of at night like Star Wars or LOTR?  No...I don't think so.  It's got a lot of lore for sure, but I don't think the Tamriel IP is anywhere close to the popularity of Star Wars or even Azeroth.

Is it the addicting progression mechanics?  No...not really.  You can get to "max level" in an Elder Scrolls game fairly quickly.  People are definitely not playing these games because they are addicted to a grind.

...So then what is it that makes these games so special?

I'll tell you.  It's the excellent open-ended gameplay.

People love these games because they allow you to explore an awesome, detailed world and really just pick whatever path you wish to follow.  But that's not all...part of what makes these games so excellent is the fact that the SAME CORE DEV TEAM has worked on Morrowwind, Oblivion, and Skyrim.

Now let's look at TES:Online.

This game is NOT developed by the team that made the previous Elder Scrolls games, and from all indications it will NOT have that open-ended gameplay that people have come to associate with TES.

So all it's left with is the brand and the IP.  And I'm sorry, that's not what makes Elder Scrolls special.  No one has a mint edition Emperor Whateverimus figure in their basement.  No, they have a vintage Han Solo figure or even freaking Hello Kitty.

The TES IP is just not popular enough to base everything on and frankly, I think that's what they are doing.  They are just trying to make a "traditional MMO" set in Tamriel.

Good luck with that.

 

I concur.

  Skooma2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/08
Posts: 683

5/04/12 11:30:57 PM#7

To all of you asserting that the sky is falling:

 

We have seen one photo of two NPCs.  Does this have the detail of Skyrim?  No.  Do you know what kind of computing power one would have to have in order to keep track of that many people with that level of detail?    We have seen one trailer.  Essentially, we know NOTHING essential.

Do I expect the MMO to have the same gameplay as the single player versions?  Of course, not.  That simply is not the way MMOs work. 

What I want to see is similar to GW's leveling.  In other words, a quick trip to max level and everything is considered endgame. 

 

Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  5/04/12 11:31:43 PM#8
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Creslin321

I think that's what they are doing.  They are just trying to make a "traditional MMO" set in Tamriel.
 


 

You skipped the part explaining why this is supposedly bad idea...

Because they are essentially making a TES game without any of the components that make TES enjoyable.

It would be like making GTA but just getting rid of the explorable city and having it be a simple level based game.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Stalkerous

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/07
Posts: 92

5/04/12 11:31:57 PM#9

All I'll say is this game will fail big time.........

  kruler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/06
Posts: 335

5/04/12 11:32:59 PM#10

The point would be because its the reaction of them yelling in a loud voice "Elder Scrolls Online" grabbing peoples attention, then said people then looking at the details and doing one big FACEPALM.

Sometimes taking an IP and trying to shoehorn a MMO to fit said IP doesnt work I hold up Warhammer Online as a classic example of that, oh and Star Trek Online in fact there is quite a number of them, you would thinl someone would of worked out why they aint working as well as they were pitched by now, (Glares at investors)

There is no God, there is no Devil, nor Angels and Demons, there is only us, surely thats bad enough, for no creature is able to commit such acts of hate and love, sometimes in the same day.

  Firedorn

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/05
Posts: 93

Wisdom spewed from the mouth of madness.

5/04/12 11:33:22 PM#11

They take literary IP and make movies from them.  They take a movie IP and make games with them.  They take a game IP and write novels about them.  What's your point?

The Elder Scrolls IP has been around for quite a while and they are now deciding to make a MMOG out of it.  So what?  The current benchmark of comparison for most MMOGs is a game that was based on a series of RTS games.

While I'll agree that this is your opinion (which everyone is entitled to), I fail to see the point in your argument.

intylerwetrust Xfire Miniprofile
  LizardEgypt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 359

Hmm ?

5/04/12 11:34:28 PM#12
Originally posted by Distopia

My word they're starting early with this stuff... its only a bad idea if it doesn't turn out to be a good MMO. THe features I've seen thus far do not scream WOW to me at all. But hey think what you want.

People seem too happy to just look forward to one game, rather than welcome other options, that's the way I see it.

THis is not a SP TES game, conventions there really shouldn't judge the way in which an MMO is approached. There's little coherent way to take that and place it into an MMO, without having a free-for-all cluster****. I'll wait to see what the game is from the ground up before making any judgements for or against.

Tab Target, Classes, Instanced PVP, Group Dungeon Endgame, Heroic Dungeons. 

Sorry you said it doesn't remind you of WoW at all? The franchise being first person and action oriented with no need for any of those features at all?

Games similar to TES have worked as MMOs before, these big budget companies are just too scared to do it.

Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6971

5/04/12 11:35:12 PM#13


Originally posted by Creslin321

Because they are essentially making a TES game without any of the components that make TES enjoyable.


That does not explain anything, you just state assumption about the game.


You said yourself that "The TES IP is just not popular enough to base everything on" so it does sound rather like a good idea not to incorporate "the components that make TES enjoyable" because of low IP popularity.


Please do explain how it is a bad idea.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15580

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/04/12 11:35:31 PM#14
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Distopia

My word they're starting early with this stuff... its only a bad idea if it doesn't turn out to be a good MMO. THe features I've seen thus far do not scream WOW to me at all. But hey think what you want.

I don't know if it will be terrible, but I'm pretty sure it has absolutely nothing to do with TES other than having the same name and being set in the same world.

I almost think it would have behooved them to title the game differently.

I really like TES lore it's in my top list of fantasy (game-wise). That's really all the TES I could want in the game as long as it's done well. I expect different things of my MMO than I do my SP rpg, bethsoft games are mainly all I'll touch in that regard anymore.

For an MMO I want good PVP regardless of the IP, there is a severe lack of decent options in this genre for that, on top of that they're making exploring mean something, the other thing i want from an MMO. On paper it sounds good to me.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15580

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/04/12 11:38:30 PM#15
Originally posted by LizardEgypt
Originally posted by Distopia

My word they're starting early with this stuff... its only a bad idea if it doesn't turn out to be a good MMO. THe features I've seen thus far do not scream WOW to me at all. But hey think what you want.

People seem too happy to just look forward to one game, rather than welcome other options, that's the way I see it.

THis is not a SP TES game, conventions there really shouldn't judge the way in which an MMO is approached. There's little coherent way to take that and place it into an MMO, without having a free-for-all cluster****. I'll wait to see what the game is from the ground up before making any judgements for or against.

Tab Target, Classes, Instanced PVP, Group Dungeon Endgame, Heroic Dungeons. 

That just says MMO to me, I've played many, never really WOW though (lvl 20 was the pinnacle of my WOW experience). ANd sorry endgame for me will be three way PVP. I couldn't care less what they do for PVE end-game.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  LizardEgypt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 359

Hmm ?

5/04/12 11:41:04 PM#16
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Creslin321

Because they are essentially making a TES game without any of the components that make TES enjoyable.

 

 


 

That does not explain anything, you just state assumption about the game.


You said yourself that "The TES IP is just not popular enough to base everything on" so it does sound rather like a good idea not to incorporate "the components that make TES enjoyable."


Please do explain how it is a bad idea.

Wow his argument flies right over your head. The base IP of Elder Scrolls is only strong because games like Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim were popular for having a robust set of content and features, most of them being sandbox and allowing people to play the game adhering to their own goals. 

What he's saying is that without those features, the word itself and lore isn't strong enough to carry itself through a mediocre and generic game. Especially by a developer who doesn't understand fully what they're working with. Am I going to be able to dedicate 30 hours of gameplay studying Dwemer artifacts and collecting them in my house? That's how I spent a solid week on Morrowind one time, I like the options and the kind of personal role-play that everyone does in their own head. These features can easily be obtained in an MMO setting, with more obvious emphasis on other players and your interaction with them. People played Darkfall as Crafters, some as Mercenaries pvping for money, some players dedicated themselves to global domination, others were commanders. That game had not a shred of NPC or PvE content and still offered an immersive personal experience.. and it was made by the worst company imaginable and was by far the best effort at a modern MMO I've ever seen. Imagine if Bethesda had looked at inspiration from them and turned that style of game into something great, rather than look at who's making the most money and fight a losing battle. 

Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  5/04/12 11:41:52 PM#17
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by LizardEgypt
Originally posted by Distopia

My word they're starting early with this stuff... its only a bad idea if it doesn't turn out to be a good MMO. THe features I've seen thus far do not scream WOW to me at all. But hey think what you want.

People seem too happy to just look forward to one game, rather than welcome other options, that's the way I see it.

THis is not a SP TES game, conventions there really shouldn't judge the way in which an MMO is approached. There's little coherent way to take that and place it into an MMO, without having a free-for-all cluster****. I'll wait to see what the game is from the ground up before making any judgements for or against.

Tab Target, Classes, Instanced PVP, Group Dungeon Endgame, Heroic Dungeons. 

That just says MMO to me, I've played many, never really WOW though (lvl 20 was the pinnacle of my WOW experience). ANd sorry endgame for me will be three way PVP. I couldn't care less what they do for PVE end-game.

More like themepark MMO ;).

There are plenty of MMO's that don't have those mechanics.  Even though it's a crappy game, I actually liked the FPS combat in Darkfall because it reminded me of...oh you know, the Elder Scrolls lol.

I had hoped that if Bethesda ever made an ES:O game that they would do that style of combat justice.  Unfortunately, Bethesda never did make an ES:O game, and they are not working on one now ;).

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  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

 
OP  5/04/12 11:47:45 PM#18
Originally posted by LizardEgypt
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Creslin321

Because they are essentially making a TES game without any of the components that make TES enjoyable.

 

 


 

That does not explain anything, you just state assumption about the game.


You said yourself that "The TES IP is just not popular enough to base everything on" so it does sound rather like a good idea not to incorporate "the components that make TES enjoyable."


Please do explain how it is a bad idea.

Wow his argument flies right over your head. The base IP of Elder Scrolls is only strong because games like Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim were popular for having a robust set of content and features, most of them being sandbox and allowing people to play the game adhering to their own goals. 

What he's saying is that without those features, the word itself and lore isn't strong enough to carry itself through a mediocre and generic game. Especially by a developer who doesn't understand fully what they're working with. Am I going to be able to dedicate 30 hours of gameplay studying Dwemer artifacts and collecting them in my house? That's how I spent a solid week on Morrowind one time, I like the options and the kind of personal role-play that everyone does in their own head. These features can easily be obtained in an MMO setting, with more obvious emphasis on other players and your interaction with them. People played Darkfall as Crafters, some as Mercenaries pvping for money, some players dedicated themselves to global domination, others were commanders. That game had not a shred of NPC or PvE content and still offered an immersive personal experience.. and it was made by the worst company imaginable and was by far the best effort at a modern MMO I've ever seen. Imagine if Bethesda had looked at inspiration from them and turned that style of game into something great, rather than look at who's making the most money and fight a losing battle. 

Exactly, thanks for that :).

And you know...it's really not that hard for me to think of some cool things like they could have done with the TES MMO right off the cuff like:

1.  Allow player guilds to sponsor chapters of the typical TES guilds (mage's, fighters, thieves) in different cities.  These chapters would then offer quests to other players, would take a cut of the player's reward upon completing a quest, and could serve as a recruitment mechanism for the sponsoring guild.

2.  There are so many books in TES...why not let players write them and publish them?

3.  Spellmaking.  Why not let players combine spell effects to make their own custom spells?  I know you may be thinking "balance!"  But honestly, there wasn't that much you could even do in Oblivion with this system, but having it there was still fun...you got to name your spells and all.

4.  Skill system...why is there a traditional class system in this game????  I understand the whole idea of wanting people in specialized roles for grouping, but you DO NOT need to use a traditional class system for that.  A limited skill system could do just as well and preserve a lot of the TES feel.

 

Anyway, I know these ideas aren't "earthshattering" but I think they are a better choice than the good ol' "let's play it safe" cop out approach that it seems like they are taking.

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  Comaf

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1133

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

5/04/12 11:49:27 PM#19

It's a bad idea for all the lazy developers who have been trying to avoid the THREE FACTION MODEL.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6971

5/04/12 11:53:15 PM#20


Originally posted by LizardEgypt

Wow his argument flies right over your head.


Yes, it does as it has no solid ground whatsoever.

You only rephrased what I said already, making same invalid conclusions as OP.

With or without "TES features", the IP is not strong enough therefore it is reasonable to use the lore and make what you consider "mediocre and generic game" because apparently those games are where the money is.


And I am still waiting on explanation how bad this idea - using the TES lore, is...

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