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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Combat: TERA v. GW2. Your thoughts?

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349 posts found
  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3608

5/04/12 12:11:49 PM#241
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Novusod

Both TERA and GW2 combat is deeply rooted in the holy trinity which means ultimately both games still play a lot like WoW. You have to have tank + healer to do group content combined with some min/maxed DPS. This is New?? Where have we seen this before? It is like every other MMO game made in the last decade. A little dodging and aiming doesn't change much. Calling this action combat is the biggest joke ever. If you want real action combat then play Vindictus where there is no healers and no holy trinity.

Umm GW2 doesn't have the holy trinity and healers/tanks either, but you either already knew that or are simply ignoring it.

 

I think he sacrificed himself to make Tera look bad and GW2 good.  /shrug

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  CallsignVega

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/05
Posts: 218

5/04/12 1:59:21 PM#242

In TERA, you have to stop in order to do anything like fire a bow or cast a spell. You don't in GW2, hence why I will be playing that and not TERA. Plus I prefer GW2's art style, I don't care much for the Anime type of TERA. 

  SoulOfRaziel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 410

5/04/12 2:04:02 PM#243
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Novusod

Both TERA and GW2 combat is deeply rooted in the holy trinity which means ultimately both games still play a lot like WoW. You have to have tank + healer to do group content combined with some min/maxed DPS. This is New?? Where have we seen this before? It is like every other MMO game made in the last decade. A little dodging and aiming doesn't change much. Calling this action combat is the biggest joke ever. If you want real action combat then play Vindictus where there is no healers and no holy trinity.

.

.

Another person that post without searching or learn enough of games.... 

For God sake GW2 is not a wow clone u prob want it to be but its isnt and will not be.

  Ceromus

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/03
Posts: 112

5/04/12 2:53:25 PM#244
Originally posted by CallsignVega

In TERA, you have to stop in order to do anything like fire a bow or cast a spell. You don't in GW2, hence why I will be playing that and not TERA. Plus I prefer GW2's art style, I don't care much for the Anime type of TERA. 

Not all spells

  Sikhander

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/08
Posts: 220

5/04/12 3:22:45 PM#245

Just level 12 in Tera right now but I must have missed some memos. Based on the discussion in this thread you get a view that the combat systems are different. Hint: They are bloody identical apart from the fact that you are movement locked in Tera - and that the Tera engine runs with higher FPS right now. That is it.

Two MMOs without tab-targetting, where avoidance is key etc.

I cannot for my world understand why Tera has choosen to balance combat around the ground lock instead of DPS output and cc though.

  Ceromus

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/03
Posts: 112

5/04/12 4:41:22 PM#246
Originally posted by Sikhander

Just level 12 in Tera right now but I must have missed some memos. Based on the discussion in this thread you get a view that the combat systems are different. Hint: They are bloody identical apart from the fact that you are movement locked in Tera - and that the Tera engine runs with higher FPS right now. That is it.

Two MMOs without tab-targetting, where avoidance is key etc.

I cannot for my world understand why Tera has choosen to balance combat around the ground lock instead of DPS output and cc though.

Only thing I can think of is its much easier to escape a #v1 gank.

  Nightverge

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/12
Posts: 216

5/04/12 5:34:32 PM#247
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Novusod

Both TERA and GW2 combat is deeply rooted in the holy trinity which means ultimately both games still play a lot like WoW. You have to have tank + healer to do group content combined with some min/maxed DPS. This is New?? Where have we seen this before? It is like every other MMO game made in the last decade. A little dodging and aiming doesn't change much. Calling this action combat is the biggest joke ever. If you want real action combat then play Vindictus where there is no healers and no holy trinity.

Umm GW2 doesn't have the holy trinity and healers/tanks either, but you either already knew that or are simply ignoring it.

 

I think he sacrificed himself to make Tera look bad and GW2 good.  /shrug

     This is absolutely hilarious. "Both games are deeply rooted in the holy trinity" roflol. One game most assuredly is not. There are no healers or holy trinity in GW2. I'm not sure how you even made it on this site without knowing that. This is one of those rare situations where I believe both parties can sit back and laugh. Lay down your flamethrowers. Put your +20 flameshields down and leave your troll poison at the door.

     Pick up a drink, sit down, and share in a laugh.

  Zen_Blade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/29/03
Posts: 105

"Use no way as way, no limitation as limitation."

-Bruce Lee

 
OP  5/04/12 6:42:49 PM#248
Originally posted by CallsignVega

In TERA, you have to stop in order to do anything like fire a bow or cast a spell. You don't in GW2, hence why I will be playing that and not TERA. Plus I prefer GW2's art style, I don't care much for the Anime type of TERA. 

Regarding GW2's run and gun combat currently, I expect we will see many changes in the coming months that change this to some degree as the melee vs ranged gap is well documented everywhere after this first test weekend.  They have some serious balancing to do and either abilities are going to get nerfed hard, or mechanics are going to get changed, or both at some point.  Will be interesting to see where it ends up.

  Eir_S

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4670

GW2 socialist.

5/04/12 6:52:30 PM#249
Originally posted by Zen_Blade
Originally posted by CallsignVega

In TERA, you have to stop in order to do anything like fire a bow or cast a spell. You don't in GW2, hence why I will be playing that and not TERA. Plus I prefer GW2's art style, I don't care much for the Anime type of TERA. 

Regarding GW2's run and gun combat currently, I expect we will see many changes in the coming months that change this to some degree as the melee vs ranged gap is well documented everywhere after this first test weekend.  They have some serious balancing to do and either abilities are going to get nerfed hard, or mechanics are going to get changed, or both at some point.  Will be interesting to see where it ends up.

I agree, it's going to be great to see what the do with all the complaints.  GW2 fans didn't disappoint on the amount of criticisms to the game that are eventually going to benefit us all!  Very exciting to see progress in motion, and everyone knows ANet truly listens.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2549

5/04/12 9:04:11 PM#250
Originally posted by Zen_Blade
Originally posted by CallsignVega

In TERA, you have to stop in order to do anything like fire a bow or cast a spell. You don't in GW2, hence why I will be playing that and not TERA. Plus I prefer GW2's art style, I don't care much for the Anime type of TERA. 

Regarding GW2's run and gun combat currently, I expect we will see many changes in the coming months that change this to some degree as the melee vs ranged gap is well documented everywhere after this first test weekend.  They have some serious balancing to do and either abilities are going to get nerfed hard, or mechanics are going to get changed, or both at some point.  Will be interesting to see where it ends up.

First very few people actuallyknew what they were doing, the beta was only until lvl 30 0r so although most didn't even reach level 10 and those that played competitive pvp and got bumped simply had no time to evaluate how all the skills, traits, runes, weapons, sygils, etc, interact.

Second, imo, a big part of it was a mental thing - we are used to go bash people in the face with our warriors and stay there in the frontline all the time. You do this in GW2 and you die. Once the mobs start turning your way you better run away, because if they start hitting you, you will die really quickly against multiple mobs. There is no dude that has the sole job of keeping you alive while you soak up hits.

Performance and particle effects dificult perception of mobs actions, something that is worsened by the fact everyone is unfamiliar with the animations of the game, making it easier to stay engaged for too long and end up fighting for survival..

What we can't forget is that melee deals way more damage than ranged, so they can afford to break action witjout being penalized in dps terms and once you reach level 7 you can always switch to a ranged weapon for less downtime.

Third, in other games when melee swings their sword they stop moving, allowing their target to increase distance, in GW2 they can swing while moving, so their prey can use skills and attack while moving but so can they, so there is really no difference compared to games where you stop to do an action. It still is based on criples, stuns, increased movement speed, teleports, etc.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Nightverge

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/12
Posts: 216

5/04/12 9:15:13 PM#251
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Zen_Blade
Originally posted by CallsignVega

In TERA, you have to stop in order to do anything like fire a bow or cast a spell. You don't in GW2, hence why I will be playing that and not TERA. Plus I prefer GW2's art style, I don't care much for the Anime type of TERA. 

Regarding GW2's run and gun combat currently, I expect we will see many changes in the coming months that change this to some degree as the melee vs ranged gap is well documented everywhere after this first test weekend.  They have some serious balancing to do and either abilities are going to get nerfed hard, or mechanics are going to get changed, or both at some point.  Will be interesting to see where it ends up.

First very few people actuallyknew what they were doing, the beta was only until lvl 30 0r so although most didn't even reach level 10 and those that played competitive pvp and got bumped simply had no time to evaluate how all the skills, traits, runes, weapons, sygils, etc, interact.

Second, imo, a big part of it was a mental thing - we are used to go bash people in the face with our warriors and stay there in the frontline all the time. You do this in GW2 and you die. Once the mobs start turning your way you better run away, because if they start hitting you, you will die really quickly against multiple mobs. There is no dude that has the sole job of keeping you alive while you soak up hits.

Performance and particle effects dificult perception of mobs actions, something that is worsened by the fact everyone is unfamiliar with the animations of the game, making it easier to stay engaged for too long and end up fighting for survival..

What we can't forget is that melee deals way more damage than ranged, so they can afford to break action witjout being penalized in dps terms and once you reach level 7 you can always switch to a ranged weapon for less downtime.

Third, in other games when melee swings their sword they stop moving, allowing their target to increase distance, in GW2 they can swing while moving, so their prey can use skills and attack while moving but so can they, so there is really no difference compared to games where you stop to do an action. It still is based on criples, stuns, increased movement speed, teleports, etc.

 

     I echo most of your sentiments. I played from the perspective of a future professional player and the PvP between ranged and melee was perfect. You don't backpeddle as fast as you do running forward. This means as long as you can dodge the ranged snares you can easily catch up and cripple the ranged classes. It all comes down to skill though. If the ranger has good footwork, for example, they can snare dumb-founded melee rushers failry frequently and keep range. However, if melee characters land their own snares and dodge the oponents they can quickly, QUICKLY, close distance and dismantle ranged fighters.

     There is actually no balancing needed, I believe. My time with competitive PvP (played mostly structured PvP) was almost flawless as far as balance goes. I'm more concerned about when they'll implement casting tools, but thats another story.

     Melee deals, on average, triple the damage ranged does. Every class has melee and ranged so typically battles start ranged. The intentions from there vary. If the character is melee focused then he will use his ranged snares and cripples and blinds to close distance while dodging traps and oponent snares. Once distance is closed it takes the ranged character a fatal few seconds, usually, to give up on ranged and switch to melee. From that point the battle is over. You cannot kite perpetually in this game because, again, you run faster moving forward than backwards. About twice as fast would be accurate. You move even slower backwards while firing your bow, though your still moving.

     Ability to keep range is directly proportionate to player skill based on if they can land their snares and cripples and if they can dodge adequetly. Interestingly enough all ranged characters that played our team thought that ranged was underpowered. They barely landed any damage on us at all. It wasn't that ranged was underpowered, it was that we knew how to counter them and it always came down to who could dodge better and who had the better aim with snares and cripples. We got very good at dodging these things and, as a thief, it took me all of two seconds to catch up to any ranged class. I had utility skills that allowed me multiple dodges in a row as well as a crippling dagger throw. I didn't even have to switch to a ranged weapon. I'd throw my cripple, dodge all of their futile attempts to slow me down as they backpeddled desperately and eviscerate them with my fast damage daggers.

     Again, people just need to..well..learn to play. To put it bluntly. There is no reason beyond playing poorly that a character moving twice as fast can't close distance.

  Quenchster

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/12
Posts: 452

5/04/12 9:15:15 PM#252

I think GW2 will have more fun combat. When I played GW2 it didn't feel like a grind when I fought monsters because of the events. I enjoyed being able to assist anyone as any class and being able to DPS without being forced into a healing role. I enjoyed how I could join PvP combat at any level and go back to lower levels for lower level content so I could choose what I got to do. I think Tera has plenty going for it, because of the aimed combat, but I don't think that style of game combined with the MMO grind will be able to absorb players from games such as other 3rd person or even 1st person games that don't have much of a grind.

  Novusod

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/30/09
Posts: 860

5/04/12 9:57:22 PM#253
Originally posted by SoulOfRaziel
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Novusod

Both TERA and GW2 combat is deeply rooted in the holy trinity which means ultimately both games still play a lot like WoW. You have to have tank + healer to do group content combined with some min/maxed DPS. This is New?? Where have we seen this before? It is like every other MMO game made in the last decade. A little dodging and aiming doesn't change much. Calling this action combat is the biggest joke ever. If you want real action combat then play Vindictus where there is no healers and no holy trinity.

.

.

Another person that post without searching or learn enough of games.... 

For God sake GW2 is not a wow clone u prob want it to be but its isnt and will not be.

I only actually played TERA and I can tell you it is 100% Trinity based group dynamic. The videos I saw of group content in GW2 certainly looked like trinity but I could be wrong. Both games are still WoW clones to me because they are still hotbar ability based games. You click a button and get a predetermined result. This is just like every other MMO made in the last decade. There really is nothing new about either of these games. Once again look to Vindictus if you want to see what real action combat is.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3608

5/04/12 9:59:56 PM#254
Originally posted by Novusod
Originally posted by SoulOfRaziel
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Novusod

Both TERA and GW2 combat is deeply rooted in the holy trinity which means ultimately both games still play a lot like WoW. You have to have tank + healer to do group content combined with some min/maxed DPS. This is New?? Where have we seen this before? It is like every other MMO game made in the last decade. A little dodging and aiming doesn't change much. Calling this action combat is the biggest joke ever. If you want real action combat then play Vindictus where there is no healers and no holy trinity.

.

.

Another person that post without searching or learn enough of games.... 

For God sake GW2 is not a wow clone u prob want it to be but its isnt and will not be.

I only actually played TERA and I can tell you it is 100% Trinity based group dynamic. The videos I saw of group content in GW2 certainly looked like trinity but I could be wrong. Both games are still WoW clones to me because they are still hotbar ability based games. You click a button and get a predetermined result. This is just like every other MMO made in the last decade. There really is nothing new about either of these games. Once again look to Vindictus if you want to see what real action combat is.

Don't the games you play have buttons? GW2 has no Tanks or Healers...no Trinity.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Nightverge

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/12
Posts: 216

5/04/12 10:52:29 PM#255
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Novusod
Originally posted by SoulOfRaziel
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Novusod

Both TERA and GW2 combat is deeply rooted in the holy trinity which means ultimately both games still play a lot like WoW. You have to have tank + healer to do group content combined with some min/maxed DPS. This is New?? Where have we seen this before? It is like every other MMO game made in the last decade. A little dodging and aiming doesn't change much. Calling this action combat is the biggest joke ever. If you want real action combat then play Vindictus where there is no healers and no holy trinity.

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Another person that post without searching or learn enough of games.... 

For God sake GW2 is not a wow clone u prob want it to be but its isnt and will not be.

I only actually played TERA and I can tell you it is 100% Trinity based group dynamic. The videos I saw of group content in GW2 certainly looked like trinity but I could be wrong. Both games are still WoW clones to me because they are still hotbar ability based games. You click a button and get a predetermined result. This is just like every other MMO made in the last decade. There really is nothing new about either of these games. Once again look to Vindictus if you want to see what real action combat is.

Don't the games you play have buttons? GW2 has no Tanks or Healers...no Trinity.

    He's got you there. All games have buttons where "You click a button and get a predetermined result" Its not as if I have to hope that Kratos will attack when I hit square.

     GW2 is absolutely not trinity based. There are no tanks, no healers, and everyone is essentially DPS in the sense that they do damage.

     The classes are futher seperated through individual emphasis on chosen weapons and skills and glyphs.

  DJJazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2074

5/04/12 10:54:48 PM#256

I'm waiting for the game in which I can play just by thinking about it, a mind meld.

Anyway, every single video game out there has you pressing a button of some sort. Well maybe Pong doesn't.

  Novusod

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/30/09
Posts: 860

5/04/12 10:58:54 PM#257
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Novusod
Originally posted by SoulOfRaziel
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Novusod

Both TERA and GW2 combat is deeply rooted in the holy trinity which means ultimately both games still play a lot like WoW. You have to have tank + healer to do group content combined with some min/maxed DPS. This is New?? Where have we seen this before? It is like every other MMO game made in the last decade. A little dodging and aiming doesn't change much. Calling this action combat is the biggest joke ever. If you want real action combat then play Vindictus where there is no healers and no holy trinity.

.

.

Another person that post without searching or learn enough of games.... 

For God sake GW2 is not a wow clone u prob want it to be but its isnt and will not be.

I only actually played TERA and I can tell you it is 100% Trinity based group dynamic. The videos I saw of group content in GW2 certainly looked like trinity but I could be wrong. Both games are still WoW clones to me because they are still hotbar ability based games. You click a button and get a predetermined result. This is just like every other MMO made in the last decade. There really is nothing new about either of these games. Once again look to Vindictus if you want to see what real action combat is.

Don't the games you play have buttons? GW2 has no Tanks or Healers...no Trinity.

No they don't. That is why I am laughing at these two games as total jokes. Vindictus uses mouse click combos to perform abilities which are NOT predetermined. Combos are varities of Left Right clicks + holds to get things done some of which require earlier hits to go off before finishing the combo. That is real action combat. Click a button on a hot bar and magic happens is not action combat but WoW clone territory. GW2 and TERA are not action combat games but just different flavor of WoW. Same old song and dance.

  Nightkin

Novice Member

Joined: 6/09/06
Posts: 49

End is not an "end" just the begining.

5/04/12 11:06:41 PM#258

So.. games with hotbar are wow clones? Guys, something wrong with you. You should cure your wow addiction. GW2 is fully different from WoW but TERA can be WoW clone because of boring quests and grindfest. Yes. GW2 is group oriented as an MMO must be, otherwise play Skyrim if ya want to solo RPGs.

  Nightverge

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/12
Posts: 216

5/04/12 11:15:58 PM#259
Originally posted by Novusod
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Novusod
Originally posted by SoulOfRaziel
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Novusod

Both TERA and GW2 combat is deeply rooted in the holy trinity which means ultimately both games still play a lot like WoW. You have to have tank + healer to do group content combined with some min/maxed DPS. This is New?? Where have we seen this before? It is like every other MMO game made in the last decade. A little dodging and aiming doesn't change much. Calling this action combat is the biggest joke ever. If you want real action combat then play Vindictus where there is no healers and no holy trinity.

.

.

Another person that post without searching or learn enough of games.... 

For God sake GW2 is not a wow clone u prob want it to be but its isnt and will not be.

I only actually played TERA and I can tell you it is 100% Trinity based group dynamic. The videos I saw of group content in GW2 certainly looked like trinity but I could be wrong. Both games are still WoW clones to me because they are still hotbar ability based games. You click a button and get a predetermined result. This is just like every other MMO made in the last decade. There really is nothing new about either of these games. Once again look to Vindictus if you want to see what real action combat is.

Don't the games you play have buttons? GW2 has no Tanks or Healers...no Trinity.

No they don't. That is why I am laughing at these two games as total jokes. Vindictus uses mouse click combos to perform abilities which are NOT predetermined. Combos are varities of Left Right clicks + holds to get things done some of which require earlier hits to go off before finishing the combo. That is real action combat. Click a button on a hot bar and magic happens is not action combat but WoW clone territory. GW2 and TERA are not action combat games but just different flavor of WoW. Same old song and dance.

     Look man, I'm going to be blunt and black and white here. Do you see as big of a following for vindictus? Maybe its beyond my perception, its possible; However, you are speaking as if nobody has ever played it.

     You are posing as an internet cliche who says all 'mainstream' games pale in comparison to your unpopular, archaic, and relatively unknown game.

     Vindictus has buttons. When I press them they do a certain action. I don't just left click and hope something I want happens. They are just minor variations of swings and attacks. Instead of using two buttons though (left and right mouse buttons) I use over 10. Vindictus has some interesting Ideas but honestly, its just monster hunter style combat. You press combo's of left and right mouse buttons, sure. They hardly vary though and I have way more options in GW2 OR Tera for unique actions. There are only a small handful of combos you can perform in vindictus.

     There are 10! combo's with just my ten different moves (I'm also not shouting the number 10 at you 10! is shorthand for 10*9*8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1). And actually most classes have more than 10 buttons when counting attunement changes, weapon switches, and class abilities.

  LordArthas

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/04
Posts: 32

5/05/12 12:08:31 AM#260
Originally posted by Capox

1. The performance of this game is straight-out CRAP. I run a 2600k @ 5.1 ghz and two 7970's on water oc'd to 1300/1600, a beast i would say. This game (Beta) runs @ 35 fps average utilizing 30% max of my machine. Before anyone starts bragging it is Beta, I know that but if they launch this game in a couple of months IT WILL NOT significantly improve, mark my words. I have enough experience with this shizzle. Also lmao when ppl say they do this on purpose hehehe..... what? You choose to slap ppl's faces on purpose so they go off to other games? mmm yeah I can see the logic of that.... NOT.

First off, yes it WILL significantly improve. There is no optimizing done in the game yet. That is stuff done at the end of development.

Second, SLI/Xfire is completely unsupported and if it is like certain other games, actualy results in a negative performance.

Third, devs have said that overclocking can actually worsen your performance due to the unoptimized nature of the beta.

Lastly, who da fu said they do it on purpose?

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