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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » You lost me at Hero Engine

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212 posts found
  Sfaliara

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/10
Posts: 447

5/04/12 5:49:22 PM#61
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Originally posted by Kuinn

I think only an idiot would say "I'll never play a game that runs on engine X" - Unreal engine is the prime example for being an engine that is used in horrible piece of shit games where nothing seem to work and also on some of the best games ever created where wine and honey rains from sky and chocolate grows in the bushes.

 

I dont like hero engine because of my experiences with it, but I have no idea if Zenimax will have those same problems with the engine if any at all like what TOR has (or had in some cases) for example. I highly doubt there's much in common with TOR hero engine and ESO hero engine, other than the name, only time will tell.

So only an idiot would say "I wont play a game with X type of graphics"?

 

Please answer, I would love to hear what you have to say on this subject.

 

Graphics have nothing to do with this and are not comparable subject. The engine does not define the game, see Rift, Skyrim, and Warhammer online using the same engine but they are vastly different. If it would be announced that ESO will have similar graphics to WoW for example then the matter would be totally different since we all know how the game would look like, but right now you dont know what Zenimax can do with the engine, you cant predict it based on the engine choise.

Actually there have been screenshots since this afternoon and the game looks like TOR and RIFT, so yes I can make that judgement and yes it is a comparable subject because so far now BOTH Hero Engine games have the same graphic style and I dont like them so yes I can say the engine is poor.

 

You are just going on about how bad you think the engine is in your OP, nothing about graphics. So I replied that engine does not neccessarily mean that the game is like some other game that uses the same engine. Rift and Fallout: New Vegas uses the same engine, do they look the same? Play the same? No.

 

Also it still isnt comparable subject because even if two games look the same they dont have to run on the same engine, nor will the engine define the gameplay OR graphics to begin with. Lets say Blizzard announces that they are working on a new game using the hero engine, it does not mean that the game would have similar graphics to TOR or share the same gameplay.

Yes your correct, its doesnt nessecarily mean that, but unfortunately it is true that the game is using the same graphics as TOR and RIFT and that it will also feature the same gameplay from TOR, even the voice acting, which I talked about in my OP.

 

Trust me, its not that I dont get what your trying to say, a engine doesnt have to define a game, but unfortunately this engine does define the game as we have now seen from TOR and the forthcoming ESO. Im sure there will be differences because every game has to at least be a bit different, but at its core its a hero engine game and it suffers, especially under the IP.

 

So again I understand where your coming from, but unfortunately your just defending a bad engine for the sake of defending it.

Just for the record Rift is not using Hero Engine but a modified version of the Gamebryo engine. I'd also say hold judgement, they said they will present the game in June at E3 and August at Gamescom, even if it is trailers we can get a taste of what it will be like.

  solarine

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/06
Posts: 1204

5/04/12 5:50:10 PM#62

 

Here are a few MMOs built or being built on the Hero Engine, with links to their MMORPG.com pages (apart from Dominus, where I link to the official website):

 
Released:
 
No introduction necessary, I guess. :)
 
 
Released But Shut Down:
 
 
 
Shut Down During Testing Phase:
 
Was a steampunk game in Victorian setting. More about social interaction. 
 
Seemed to be going for quite some of the points a lot of MMO fans here have been asking: sci-fi MMO with mostly player driver wrold, 3-faction PVP, with some SWG-like touches. Seemed to be at a really early stage of development when cancelled.
 
 
In Production:
 
 
 
probably in too early a stage of production
 
 
  jiveturkey12

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/22/04
Posts: 1284

 
OP  5/04/12 5:52:14 PM#63
Originally posted by solarine

 

Here are a few MMOs built or being built on the Hero Engine, with links to their MMORPG.com pages (apart from Dominus, where I link to the official website):
 
Released:
No introduction necessary, I guess. :)
 
Released But Shut Down:
 
 
Shut Down During Testing Phase:
Was a steampunk game in Victorian setting. More about social interaction. 
 
Seemed to be going for quite some of the points a lot of MMO fans here have been asking: sci-fi MMO with mostly player driver wrold, 3-faction PVP, with some SWG-like touches. Seemed to be at a really early stage of development when cancelled.
 
 
In Production:
 
 
probably in too early a stage of production
 
 

Thanks! Hopefully this will at least garner some better response now that people can see Hero Engines obvioulsly stellar Track record!

  Jetrpg

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 2392

5/04/12 5:55:46 PM#64

All your graphics are made of plastic.

hero engine gogogo.

 

And gamebryo is better than hero for sure (its not even an arguement hero is like a poorly coded bad graphic engine ready in a box). But i don't much care for gamebryo. Notice games that make head way in combat, graphics , even style are most often custom or heavy modified engines. Its actually a good indicator if an mmo will be good, did they mod the engine? Why does this matter? Because it measn the devlopers had a vision early on, (io. not peice meal)

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  Kuinn

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 1845

5/04/12 6:39:39 PM#65
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Originally posted by Kuinn

I think only an idiot would say "I'll never play a game that runs on engine X" - Unreal engine is the prime example for being an engine that is used in horrible piece of shit games where nothing seem to work and also on some of the best games ever created where wine and honey rains from sky and chocolate grows in the bushes.

 

I dont like hero engine because of my experiences with it, but I have no idea if Zenimax will have those same problems with the engine if any at all like what TOR has (or had in some cases) for example. I highly doubt there's much in common with TOR hero engine and ESO hero engine, other than the name, only time will tell.

So only an idiot would say "I wont play a game with X type of graphics"?

 

Please answer, I would love to hear what you have to say on this subject.

 

Graphics have nothing to do with this and are not comparable subject. The engine does not define the game, see Rift, Skyrim, and Warhammer online using the same engine but they are vastly different. If it would be announced that ESO will have similar graphics to WoW for example then the matter would be totally different since we all know how the game would look like, but right now you dont know what Zenimax can do with the engine, you cant predict it based on the engine choise.

Actually there have been screenshots since this afternoon and the game looks like TOR and RIFT, so yes I can make that judgement and yes it is a comparable subject because so far now BOTH Hero Engine games have the same graphic style and I dont like them so yes I can say the engine is poor.

 

You are just going on about how bad you think the engine is in your OP, nothing about graphics. So I replied that engine does not neccessarily mean that the game is like some other game that uses the same engine. Rift and Fallout: New Vegas uses the same engine, do they look the same? Play the same? No.

 

Also it still isnt comparable subject because even if two games look the same they dont have to run on the same engine, nor will the engine define the gameplay OR graphics to begin with. Lets say Blizzard announces that they are working on a new game using the hero engine, it does not mean that the game would have similar graphics to TOR or share the same gameplay.

Yes your correct, its doesnt nessecarily mean that, but unfortunately it is true that the game is using the same graphics as TOR and RIFT and that it will also feature the same gameplay from TOR, even the voice acting, which I talked about in my OP.

 

Trust me, its not that I dont get what your trying to say, a engine doesnt have to define a game, but unfortunately this engine does define the game as we have now seen from TOR and the forthcoming ESO. Im sure there will be differences because every game has to at least be a bit different, but at its core its a hero engine game and it suffers, especially under the IP.

 

So again I understand where your coming from, but unfortunately your just defending a bad engine for the sake of defending it.

 

I'm not defending the hero engine specifically, just saying what I would have said no matter which engine was in question. It's the label "MMORPG" which defines these games, it's like some unwritten law that you need to clone the basic formula and drop in one or two feature of your own and then tell everyone how awesome your game is regardless of the IP and lore at hand, regardless of the engine or any other tech involved. It does not have to be like that but there seems to be no end to it.

  Terranah

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3609

5/04/12 6:51:12 PM#66

Maybe when you want to focus your development time on story and voice overs you take short cuts like buying a game engine instead of making your own.

 

It also allows a less skilled or talented development house to get by and rush some content out the door.  To me it's a vote of no confidence on their own programmers or a statement of where they think most of their money should be going.  They've already said they aren't capable of doing housing.  That's probably because it would require actual programming.  

 

I'm not going to get the least bit excited or hyped about this game.  I've been down that road too many times now.

 

 

  bishbosh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/11
Posts: 401

5/04/12 7:35:39 PM#67

im sorry but there is no way a hero engine game can run as well as a inhouse engine game or a unreal/crytek engine.

hero engine is designed for ease of use. it is like java

inhouse/unreal/cyrtek is designed for performance. it is like C

 

 

  Sora2810

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 566

5/04/12 7:36:18 PM#68

Why does news about this game keep getting worse by the hour..

Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  Chrome1980

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 523

5/05/12 5:09:59 AM#69
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Originally posted by solarine

 

Here are a few MMOs built or being built on the Hero Engine, with links to their MMORPG.com pages (apart from Dominus, where I link to the official website):
 
Released:
No introduction necessary, I guess. :)
 
Released But Shut Down:
 
 
Shut Down During Testing Phase:
Was a steampunk game in Victorian setting. More about social interaction. 
 
Seemed to be going for quite some of the points a lot of MMO fans here have been asking: sci-fi MMO with mostly player driver wrold, 3-faction PVP, with some SWG-like touches. Seemed to be at a really early stage of development when cancelled.
 
 
In Production:
 
 
probably in too early a stage of production
 
 

Thanks! Hopefully this will at least garner some better response now that people can see Hero Engines obvioulsly stellar Track record!

So you are telling us all those games are bad and shut down because of hero engine? you should have stopped after making sily OP but you cointinue to embarrass yourself.

  Bladestrom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 2732

5/05/12 5:47:10 AM#70
Originally posted by Chrome1980
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Originally posted by solarine

 

Here are a few MMOs built or being built on the Hero Engine, with links to their MMORPG.com pages (apart from Dominus, where I link to the official website):
 
Released:
No introduction necessary, I guess. :)
 
Released But Shut Down:
 
 
Shut Down During Testing Phase:
Was a steampunk game in Victorian setting. More about social interaction. 
 
Seemed to be going for quite some of the points a lot of MMO fans here have been asking: sci-fi MMO with mostly player driver wrold, 3-faction PVP, with some SWG-like touches. Seemed to be at a really early stage of development when cancelled.
 
 
In Production:
 
 
probably in too early a stage of production
 
 

Thanks! Hopefully this will at least garner some better response now that people can see Hero Engines obvioulsly stellar Track record!

So you are telling us all those games are bad and shut down because of hero engine? you should have stopped after making sily OP but you cointinue to embarrass yourself.

  No, but the Hero engine did not start in a great place and has aged badly.  More importantly, the style of graphics that Hero provides is not suited to an elder scrolls game i.e renowed for being atmospheric and aiming for the realistic end of the market.

 

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (9500 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(850 elementalist)

Now playing GW2/vanilla wow

  Chrome1980

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 523

5/05/12 5:49:47 AM#71
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Chrome1980
Originally posted by jiveturkey12
Originally posted by solarine

 

Here are a few MMOs built or being built on the Hero Engine, with links to their MMORPG.com pages (apart from Dominus, where I link to the official website):
 
Released:
No introduction necessary, I guess. :)
 
Released But Shut Down:
 
 
Shut Down During Testing Phase:
Was a steampunk game in Victorian setting. More about social interaction. 
 
Seemed to be going for quite some of the points a lot of MMO fans here have been asking: sci-fi MMO with mostly player driver wrold, 3-faction PVP, with some SWG-like touches. Seemed to be at a really early stage of development when cancelled.
 
 
In Production:
 
 
probably in too early a stage of production
 
 

Thanks! Hopefully this will at least garner some better response now that people can see Hero Engines obvioulsly stellar Track record!

So you are telling us all those games are bad and shut down because of hero engine? you should have stopped after making sily OP but you cointinue to embarrass yourself.

  No, but the Hero engine did not start in a great place and has aged badly.  More importantly, the style of graphics that Hero provides is not suited to an elder scrolls game i.e renowed for being atmospheric and aiming for the realistic end of the market.

 

Check repopulation, Hero Engine is capable of providing atmospheric environments. However. The Elder Scroll games have never been about graphics.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6382

5/05/12 6:19:55 AM#72


Originally posted by Bladestrom

  No, but the Hero engine did not start in a great place and has aged badly.  More importantly, the style of graphics that Hero provides is not suited to an elder scrolls game i.e renowed for being atmospheric and aiming for the realistic end of the market.
 

While there are certain graphics characteristics about an engine used, they do not dictate the art style.

Look at Warhammer and TES series. They both use same engine.


  WhiteCross

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/12/04
Posts: 120

5/05/12 6:23:21 AM#73
Originally posted by jiveturkey12

I said yesterday that no matter how terrible the game looked i would play simply for being an Elder Scrolls game. That was before I found out that the game was running on the Hero Engine, the same terrible engine that TOR is running on. I dont know who in their right mind decided that the hero engine was gods gift to MMO's but its just aweful. Its one of those typical all fluff and no substance engines and its defiently one of the main reasons TOR failed and will be another reason why ESO fails. 

 

Seriously this is one of the worst things that could have ever happened to ESO, and it just shows that even bethesda can fall victim to some sly marketing by a poor engine development company that couldnt even realease their OWN mmo with the damn engine. Seriously what are all these people thinking? Couldnt they just make their own in house engine? It all goes down to greed I guess, but the with HERO engine being so expensive to purchase and use is it really worth it in the end for these companys?

 

Thank Talos (SADFACE) for Guild Wars 2...

Yup, I agree. Was excited until I saw "Hero Engine".

Keep moving...nothing to see here.

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

5/05/12 6:40:26 AM#74
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Bladestrom

  No, but the Hero engine did not start in a great place and has aged badly.  More importantly, the style of graphics that Hero provides is not suited to an elder scrolls game i.e renowed for being atmospheric and aiming for the realistic end of the market.
 


 

While there are certain graphics characteristics about an engine used, they do not dictate the art style.

Look at Warhammer and TES series. They both use same engine.

 

 

I'm no expert on this, but I think one of the major issues with the Hero Engine's graphical capabilities is that it's really made for smaller enclosed areas, linear paths, and that sort of zone design.  From what I understand, it doesn't render wide open landscapes very well. 

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  Onigod

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/24/07
Posts: 672

5/05/12 6:48:13 AM#75

If only people took some time instead of creating a topic as soon as they have something on there mind this forum would be alot better.

 

Dont just look at SWTOR ur like swtor failed and that was on the hero engine so everything else will also fail on it. Just look what the hero engine can do, to make it easy for you there are even OLD videos on youtube when you type hero engine landscapes made by people using the engine not by sales people. and it looks 100 times better then what SWTOR ever looked like and these are old videos.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/05/12 6:49:32 AM#76
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Bladestrom

  No, but the Hero engine did not start in a great place and has aged badly.  More importantly, the style of graphics that Hero provides is not suited to an elder scrolls game i.e renowed for being atmospheric and aiming for the realistic end of the market.
 


 

While there are certain graphics characteristics about an engine used, they do not dictate the art style.

Look at Warhammer and TES series. They both use same engine.

 

and rift

 

does rift play like fall out 3????

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6382

5/05/12 7:06:31 AM#77


Originally posted by Vhaln

I'm no expert on this, but I think one of the major issues with the Hero Engine's graphical capabilities is that it's really made for smaller enclosed areas, linear paths, and that sort of zone design.  From what I understand, it doesn't render wide open landscapes very well. 

Open landscapes like SWTOR Tatooine?


Distance rendering and zone size are 2 different things. 1st is a matter of graphics, 2nd is a matter of design and resource costs - exponential scaling.


Game engine is just a set of tools and while tools might have certain specifics, it still depends on how the tools are used.


HERO engine is still very solid and well scaling engine. What certain developers do with it is another question.

  Amegashie

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/06
Posts: 267

5/05/12 7:31:17 AM#78

I like to base my opinion on fact rather than PR bullcrap and fantasizing about what a certain product could maybe deliver when the stars align and pigs start to fly. The facts we have are that the Hero engine in the only major title using it so far:

 

1. works well enough in PvE

2. performs poorly in small scale PvP

3. large scale PvP is absolutely unplayable for almost everyone

 

Until I see some solid evidence to the contrary that's exactly what I'll expect in TES Online.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6382

5/05/12 7:49:29 AM#79


Originally posted by Amegashie

2. performs poorly in small scale PvP
3. large scale PvP is absolutely unplayable for almost everyone
 
Until I see some solid evidence to the contrary that's exactly what I'll expect in TES Online.

In the same spirit, can your provide an evidence that those two listed issues are related to engine and not development team?

  Sourd420

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/10
Posts: 66

5/05/12 7:56:11 AM#80
Originally posted by cloud8521

http://www.overclock.net/t/1252768/agb-elder-scrolls-online-screenshots-leak

 

 

it looks cool (graphicly) but i have a feeling it will feel like TOR...

 

but  it looks nothing like TES, art style is why honestly. too clean too  cartoony.

 

i always thought of TES as a  photorealistic game (well as close as the tech could get in early games)

The bottom Picture in that set reminds me of SWTOR marketing Blitz. With their graphics.

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