Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Ouch...just read the article....sounds like they are trying to "TOR-ify" TES....sorry but pass...I'm not interested in buying that crap. If you are going to make a TES MMO...do it right...don't just think you can plop down an Elder Scrolls skin on some other game and call it a day..... haven't Dev's learned already that's a recipie for fail?

It turns a profit. That's all they care about. As long as the plebes keep scooping up these pre orders, and supporting this type of business model why in the world would they bother making good games?

Generally, making a GOOD product turns a better profit.  Or at least a popular product, I should say.  Either way, in most businesses, its pretty bad business not to care if your customers will want to come back.  A lot of games are selling below expectations these days.  Maybe there's a simple reason for that.

*sigh*

when will they learn. 

This makes me a sad panda

I dug this up from my fileserver, an easter egg in Morrowind bashing multiplayer gameplay, presumably MMORPGs.

It seems ironic now.

Stripping away what makes the Elder Scrolls games the Elder Scrolls games and turning a potentially amazing concept (Elder Scrolls + Other people) into yet another generic mmo seems.....to not make any sense.

This approach seems very short-sighted, bordering on denial or at the very least bad timing (and by bad i mean a decade too late). Either way, they're throwing away a real opportunity if they're committed to giving us a superfluous and redundant MMO.

Lunacy at it's finest.

This is the first game I have wanted to see fail. I don't say that maliciously, I just don't like developers turning a very fun and successful SP game that has a TON of fans into a generic MMO.

If you want to make an MMO that is fine but you need to be able to build the MMO model around your game, not build the game to fit the MMO model.

I can't believe the developers are really that stupid. They must be going for a cashgrab sort of game like swtor.  Sell lots of boxes and subs based on teh ip but after a couple months the servers will be ghost towns and the game will be fail. I really can't believe they mentioned WoW and SWTOR as references to what this game will be like.  Just another run of the mill generic mmo with Elder Scrolls slapped on the box to make it sell.

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Unlight

  But I am surprised they aren't jumping feet first into the sandbox model.  If anything, that's a hole that needs filling.

They wont because, and I quote from ZeniMax, - "Its Too Hard!"

Not good to hear.

It's also discouraging how much they seem to be relying on 'standard' methods of making games, rather than coming up with their own thing.  They sound really adverse to trying anything risky or untried.  That was something that REALLY turned me off of Bioware when they announced something similar.  It sounds like they are following the same "touchstone" path.

I knew I read it somewhere:

“It needs to be comfortable for people who are coming in from a typical massively multiplayer game that has the same control mechanisms, but it also has to appeal to Skyrim players. You want to hit those touchstones, but more important than that, you’ve got to create an experience that’s unique and fun.”

Originally posted by kingotnw

How are people surprised by this? The Final Fantasy online games are certainly nothing like the offline versions, and there are a crap-ton more Final Fantasy games than there are Elder Scroll games. World of Warcraft is nothing like the original Warcraft games... It's going to be an MMORPG, it needs to play like one.

But Final Fantasy and Warcraft games are vasty different then MMOs.

In Final fantasy you follow a very set story with lots of cutscene.  Few chances to explore other then the "hidden" chest on every dungoen level.  

Warcrafts were RTS.  Do I really need to explain why a MMORPG warcraft has to play different then an RTS one? 

But Elder scrolls games are RPGs where you use skill based leveling to explore huge worlds and fight with an actiony system where anything could join the fight at any moment.  Not mention that the stories while linear for the most part let you do them at your own pace not what the devs said.   If you want to east when the story says goes west you can,  unlike in a JRPG, but common in old MMOs.   None of this wouldn't work in an MMO (heck everygame Beth has made since morrowind has had atleast one multiplayer mod in the works)

So I ask you why are you surprised that people are annoyied that Elder Scrolls Online is doing a SWTOR where they taking game concpects that worked and throwing them out of the windows because they anrt themepark enough?

If you read the article, it clearly says this title has been in development since 2007. It bears to mind that they thought what Bioware was doing with TOR with it's fully voiced cutscenes and what not was gonna change the mmo genre back in that time once it released. I can't even imagine that after TOR has been ripped apart by mmo players since it's release that those in power would even remotely consider releasing this game that copies TOR's system for system and even uses the same game engine.

This really lends credit to my belief that just like TOR, these dev companies are shooting for heavy pre-order sales and first 6 month's of subs to recapture their initial investment without really wanting the game to be played for a long term. Once again another highly liked IP that could be turned into an incrediable mmorpg, that instead, will be nothing more than a SPRPG with coop features.

Enjoy Star Scrolls: The Elder Republic.

I'll pass.

Originally posted by adam_nox
but wait it gets better:

---

"Elder Scrolls Online" will feature raids and heroic mode for its dungeons

---

TESO is a disappointment on many levels, but i'm not unhappy it has raids.  Am I the only gamer that still enjoys raiding?  Granted, I do not enjoy the dungeon/token grind, and I would evolve the raiding endgame significantly, but I stil would want it as part of my PvE endgame experience in an MMO.

I don't understand why people keep saying that something like Skyrim wouldn't work as an MMO.

Look at what's happening with MMO's that are coming out.  It's a bunch of FPS/ Action oriented games.  They all seem to be able to get around the "technology limitations".  Action oriented games like TERA, and DCUO are no diffierent then FPS ones like Planetside and Darkfall, and fighting isn't a problem in any of these games.

Mortal online only has problems because it's wholey a work in progress, by a very small, inexperienced, underfunded, independant studio.  There wouldn't be the latency issues if it had 250 developers and the financial resources of Zenimax. 

The skyrim combat system is more then doable, and would actually be the  best suited for an MMO of all the ES games.  This is one of my hesitations of believing the leak or any of the articles using information obtained from the leak.  

Housing in oblivion and skyrim is done exactly the same way as it is in EQ2.  I can't beleive any comment that it wouldn't be possible to do housing the way fans would expect when you could use the exact same housing sytem SoE uses in EQ2 and ES fans wouldn't know the diffiernce.  The only difference is the presence of a server! 

Crafting?  It's done in skyrim just like the magority of MMO's on the market. 

NPC?  NPC"s in skyrim are basically asteroids in EVE.  I mine an asteroid, it's gone until the server reset the next morning.  I kill an NPC in skyrim it's gone until the game generates a new NPC to take it's place.  Skyrim replaces the NPC's.  Kill a farmer and another farmer may eventually take over the farm.  The only difference is that it may also trigger a side quest, and even that can be done in an MMO.  They alrady have triggers in MMO's based on something you may or may not have done at some point.  DCUO used them to have bad guys ambush you in the world if you followed some story archs, I pretty sure WoW did the same exact thing.  It's the same basic thing as happens in Skyrim, and more then possible to do in an ES MMO.  You can kill pretty much every NPC in WoW, they'll eventually respawn, just handle the respawning more creatively by having the NPC quest giver not be the same individual, and make the quest generic in such a way that it doesn't require the quest giver to be a specific individual.  Key NPC's can be made unkillable by simply making them to powerful to kill. 

Dynamically generated dungeons?  City of Heroes has been doing this for how long now?  Especially when you start talking about solo dungeons being generated for quests, it's just a location you click and then get transfered to an instance.

The only thing that I don't see as doable in an MMO is the Radiant AI, but even that can be overcome with a simpler version of the AI that would still have NPC"s going about doing things.

Converting Skyrim to an MMO format is more then doable, saying otherwise is simply false.  There are very few things they would need to change about skyrim to account for having lots of people playing in the world.  And that's mostly the primary story.  You do not need to make a central storyline in an MMO that revolves around an individual being the god like hero, sent to save the world. 

There is nothing in an ES game that hasn't been done in MMO's already.  From the character progression format, to the combat, crafting, dungeons, and housing.  Every gameplay element in skyrim has already been done in MMO's for many, many years now. 

To say it wouldn't work in an MMO is BS, it's been working.

Until I've read the article myself next month, or seen informatiion that is official, all the stuff being based on the leak is just a rumor, and could very well be someones idea of a joke.  It could very well be bethesdas idea of a joke, poking fun at thier own game by "leaking" information saying that it's going to be just like WoW ( did no one notice the number of times world of warcraft is mentioned in the leak?)  Bethesda is involved in the game, Tod howard is involved with the game; just because they formed a new branch within the company doesn't mean that much.  It really only means they did it for the sake of structuring.  It's easier in a multitude of ways for a company like Zenimax to create another division responsible for the online projects then it is to put those projects on an existing division that is already responsible for work they're doing.

Zenimax media was started by the guy that founded bethesda.  The CEO of zenimax was installed by the guy that founded bethesda.  Zenimax as created for no other reason then as a means of structuring the company and raising money.  A lawyer, a former MLB player, and a bunch of guys from verious other media outlets, that's all zenimax is.  Weaver is the guy behind everything.  Weaver is bethesda, and bethesda is the publisher; there is no TESO without bethesda.  Bethesdas brand is stamped all over this project.

At the end of the day, Weaver and Bethesda are responsible for all things Elder scrolls. 

And you can not make an ES game, and state that you're giving the FANS of the ES games the MMO they've always wanted, and not make it like the ES games.  To do anything less then Morrowind threw Skyrim with an online component would not be giving the fans what they've always wanted.

It's just rumors until real proof is shown. 

Originally posted by Uhwop

[SNIP]

They started this game back in 2007.

.. Just pointing that out. It may have had more than a little impact on technological decisions.

And personally, having played Darkfall.. No.. I don't need that kind of combat. DAoC 2 is just fine for me.

Originally posted by lizardbones

I agree with Axehilt. However, I think the point still stands that the MMO they are writing seems to be a substantial departure from what the Elder Scrolls series is known for. It's not classes and the inability to have a house.

Sure, and I'd agree with that.

It's odd they didn't use it as an opportunity to differentiate themselves from other MMORPGs, given that that's what gamers want.

Heard it before: SWTOR? I'd rather play KOTOR 3-10 instead

Will hear it next: ESO? I'd rather play TES 6-10

Originally posted by Drakxii

Originally posted by kingotnw

How are people surprised by this? The Final Fantasy online games are certainly nothing like the offline versions, and there are a crap-ton more Final Fantasy games than there are Elder Scroll games. World of Warcraft is nothing like the original Warcraft games... It's going to be an MMORPG, it needs to play like one.

But Final Fantasy and Warcraft games are vasty different then MMOs.

 

In Final fantasy you follow a very set story with lots of cutscene.  Few chances to explore other then the "hidden" chest on every dungoen level.  

 

Warcrafts were RTS.  Do I really need to explain why a MMORPG warcraft has to play different then an RTS one? 

 

But Elder scrolls games are RPGs where you use skill based leveling to explore huge worlds and fight with an actiony system where anything could join the fight at any moment.  Not mention that the stories while linear for the most part let you do them at your own pace not what the devs said.   If you want to east when the story says goes west you can,  unlike in a JRPG, but common in old MMOs.   None of this wouldn't work in an MMO (heck everygame Beth has made since morrowind has had atleast one multiplayer mod in the works)

 

So I ask you why are you surprised that people are annoyied that Elder Scrolls Online is doing a SWTOR where they taking game concpects that worked and throwing them out of the windows because they anrt themepark enough?

^This x1000

Originally posted by Coldren

Originally posted by Uhwop

[SNIP]

They started this game back in 2007.

.. Just pointing that out. It may have had more than a little impact on technological decisions.

And personally, having played Darkfall.. No.. I don't need that kind of combat. DAoC 2 is just fine for me.

 I didn't say DF combat was good, I said that as far as FPS combat, it works, and it does.  The game may stutter with several hundred people in a single area all fighting, but then so do multiplayer FPS games, and with fewer people, as well as non FPS mmo's.  EVE has been fighting latency issues when a few hundred people enter a single area and start fighting, and they use a hotbar format.

The key is, it works, and has been working; so you can't say that having skyrims combat in an MMO wouldn't work because of "technological limitations".  That's false, because it's been done, numerous times now, and is actually the direction MMO's are moving.  Like I said, FPS or Action oriented combat like TERA or DCUO aren't really that diffierent, they're both realtime and have to deal with latency.

I'm aware of when they started the game.  It has no baring on what is or is not possible in a game.  When was planetside released? 

2007 also means parallel development with skyrim; that's even more of a reason to not trust the leak at this time.  Did you play skyrim?  Did it not strike you that the game played an awful like like an MMO?  I wasn't the only one that played it and though that the only thing it was missing was a dedicated internet connection.  I'm pretty sure they even made a comment about that in an article on this site, I know I've seen it in other blogs and articles elsewhere. 

And for the record, Tod Howard NEVER said they woudln't do an online ES game, he has always said they wouldn't tack an online component onto an ES game that was developed as a single player game, just for the sake of adding it.  Everyone always takes it out of context though.

When was the last time you saw a studio reveal that they're working on an MMO, and tell you repeatedly that they're making the game play exactly like another game, that plays the complete opposite of how your game franchse plays?  Am I the only one that read every page of that leak and noticed that just about every single page actually mentiions world of warcraft; literally saying that they're making the game play, and function, just like world of warcraft.

I'm seriously inclined to believe for the moment that the leak came from bethesda themselves, and that they're messing with us.  For 5 years they've been secretly developing an MMO based on the best selling sandbox RPGs of all time, then they reveal it, and within hours there's a leak that it will play exactly like best selling MMO of all time, that is so completely diffierent from the ES series as you can get?  I really hope I'm right about this.  It would be the best joke ever; mad props to bethesda if I'm right. 

I love how the developer said that ESO will resemble SWTOR.  He just said the game will look and play like crap, lol.