I am surprised people were expectin it to be a sandbox. it is on next level of themepark like GW2. themepark is where money is, so nope you are not getting a big budget sandbox...not any time in future anyways.

Originally posted by Chrome1980

I am surprised people were expectin it to be a sandbox. it is on next level of themepark like GW2. themepark is where money is, so nope you are not getting a big budget sandbox...not any time in future anyways.

Wasnt expecting sandbox at all, but expected first person and with the freedom of the elder scrolls games, most of the stuff you can do has been dumbed down, Skyrim is not really much of a sandbox, in the traditional sense that you dont get lots of tools to shape the world, it just gives you lots of mechanics and lots of different content you can consume at your own will.

Pick up a weapon and just learn to use it sort of thing, it just seems like its gonna be not good enough for me. I will wait and see.

I guess what people were expecting was not a sandbox as this newfangled "if we can't build, we won't call it a sandbox" front means it, but an open world game where you can at least decide where to go, what to do and which way to progress with a good deal of freedom. Simply think of it as *not being handheld throughout the content and progression*. (And who knows, maybe it will still turn out noticably more so than is the norm these days)

Of course, it's always nice to have hope, so maybe people did expect, I don't know, housing and even first person view as well. First person would be somewhat interesting, I haven't played a game like that since early EQ.

Anyway, all this on top of the Hero Engine... well, I'm not really holding my breath; more of a wait-and-see here. We'll see what kind of game they're going for more clearly in E3 or something.

Because what you ask is not realistic.  Eventually the first 10 percent of people who play will "shape everything" leaving the other 90% without a play experience.  It's why sandbox as a game style is a genre of games called strategy, and can't be realistically put in the RPG setting. So you can't take a real RPG like Elder Scroll and decide to make it a MMOStrategy or MMOSimulation game.  

I get it , some people like Mongolian barbaque. I for one think its stupid to pay someone to allow me to cook my own food.  This is the problem with the sand box argument. I pay money for developers and writers and authors to make amazing content that can challenge people, not to fight 13 year old gankers and have the game tell me "it's innovavite".  Anyone can make this game. It's like telling someone to read a book and giving them a book with blank pages.  Then tell them to write their own story, it'll be amazing. Well, I can do that on my own, why did I pay for the book? 

Eve is not an RPG, in no shape or form.  It's a great MMOstrategy game with RPG elements, but if there are no adventures or quests to go on, if there's no main story to drive the game, then its not an RPG.  

By your logic Dungeons and Dragons isn't roleplaying because you don't have a main story. There's plenty of lore and roleplaying in EvE online. Only difference is that the players make the stories by themselves with the tools and back story they are given.

EDIT: Accidently a word :)

Originally posted by dubyahite
New argument!

Let's assume elder scrolls is some kind of thempark sandbox hybrid.


A lot of people use the word sandpark to describe hybrids. I'm going to start using the phrase themebox. Or maybe parkbox. Themesand?


Eh, definitely themebox.

Haha, though "themebox" actually sounds even more restrictive than "themepark"!

In theme park at least you have a whole park, whereas a box is just claustrophobic! 

By the way, I don't think the screenshots look that bad. Nowadays people naturally expect Skyrim when you say TES, but I don't find the artwork too far from Morrowind, which I did like alot. 

Here's hoping they can get good performance from the engine.

Oh man this is bad, my hype just went to 10 from 9000. Hotbar combat, third person only, no housing (or "real estate" from the article), Rift graphics, a crap might just as well give up.

Originally posted by dubyahite
New argument!

Let's assume elder scrolls is some kind of thempark sandbox hybrid.


A lot of people use the word sandpark to describe hybrids. I'm going to start using the phrase themebox. Or maybe parkbox. Themesand?


Eh, definitely themebox.

I'd be happy if it turns out like a hybrid, let's say like Vanguard.

Sadly, from what I've read in the leaked article, chances for this to happen are tiny. Too much mention of structured PvP, instances, raids, battle arenas and awesome but limited skills. It all sounds like a very guided experience, a ride in a themepark. Couple that with no player-made structures and there's little room left for an hybrid.

Originally posted by Harakiri

Because what you ask is not realistic.  Eventually the first 10 percent of people who play will "shape everything" leaving the other 90% without a play experience.  It's why sandbox as a game style is a genre of games called strategy, and can't be realistically put in the RPG setting. So you can't take a real RPG like Elder Scroll and decide to make it a MMOStrategy or MMOSimulation game.  

I get it , some people like Mongolian barbaque. I for one think its stupid to pay someone to allow me to cook my own food.  This is the problem with the sand box argument. I pay money for developers and writers and authors to make amazing content that can challenge people, not to fight 13 year old gankers and have the game tell me "it's innovavite".  Anyone can make this game. It's like telling someone to read a book and giving them a book with blank pages.  Then tell them to write their own story, it'll be amazing. Well, I can do that on my own, why did I pay for the book? 

Eve is not an RPG, in no shape or form.  It's a great MMOstrategy game with RPG elements, but if there are no adventures or quests to go on, if there's no main story to drive the game, then its not an RPG.  

By your Dungeons and Dragons isn't roleplaying because you don't have a main story. There's plenty of lore and roleplaying in EvE online. Only difference is that the players make the stories by themselves with the tools and back story they are given.

So you've never played DnD before? 

Every campaign , session i've ever been in or run has a story or a quest to go on.  Some of these games are very open, there are various places players can go and the DM makes up the story as he goes. Most games have the DM do prepared material .

No one sits at the table as the DM throws out monster after monster. Nor do I allow a friend's group to come over to randomly attack said players and steal their equipment.  

DnD is the blueprint of the RPG.  Heck, the blueprint of the massive multiplayer RPG.  

Originally posted by solarine

Originally posted by dubyahite
New argument!

Let's assume elder scrolls is some kind of thempark sandbox hybrid.


A lot of people use the word sandpark to describe hybrids. I'm going to start using the phrase themebox. Or maybe parkbox. Themesand?


Eh, definitely themebox.

 

Haha, though "themebox" actually sounds even more restrictive than "themepark"!

In theme park at least you have a whole park, whereas a box is just claustrophobic! 

By the way, I don't think the screenshots look that bad. Nowadays people naturally expect Skyrim when you say TES, but I don't find the artwork too far from Morrowind, which I did like alot. 

Here's hoping they can get good performance from the engine.

I won't degrate RPGs for a few folk who can't figure out that the game they want to play is in another genre. I will say that I would love to see more simulation mechanics in RPGs. Again, best game i've ever played, dark cloud 2, and the city building element metagame.  Love the idea of a guild building an instanced community that priately benefits them.  

Originally posted by dontadow

Originally posted by Harakiri

Because what you ask is not realistic.  Eventually the first 10 percent of people who play will "shape everything" leaving the other 90% without a play experience.  It's why sandbox as a game style is a genre of games called strategy, and can't be realistically put in the RPG setting. So you can't take a real RPG like Elder Scroll and decide to make it a MMOStrategy or MMOSimulation game.  

I get it , some people like Mongolian barbaque. I for one think its stupid to pay someone to allow me to cook my own food.  This is the problem with the sand box argument. I pay money for developers and writers and authors to make amazing content that can challenge people, not to fight 13 year old gankers and have the game tell me "it's innovavite".  Anyone can make this game. It's like telling someone to read a book and giving them a book with blank pages.  Then tell them to write their own story, it'll be amazing. Well, I can do that on my own, why did I pay for the book? 

Eve is not an RPG, in no shape or form.  It's a great MMOstrategy game with RPG elements, but if there are no adventures or quests to go on, if there's no main story to drive the game, then its not an RPG.  

By your Dungeons and Dragons isn't roleplaying because you don't have a main story. There's plenty of lore and roleplaying in EvE online. Only difference is that the players make the stories by themselves with the tools and back story they are given.

So you've never played DnD before? 

Every campaign , session i've ever been in or run has a story or a quest to go on.  Some of these games are very open, there are various places players can go and the DM makes up the story as he goes. Most games have the DM do prepared material .

No one sits at the table as the DM throws out monster after monster. Nor do I allow a friend's group to come over to randomly attack said players and steal their equipment.  

DnD is the blueprint of the RPG.  Heck, the blueprint of the massive multiplayer RPG.  

D&D is a sand box in it's purest form. This is the holy grial of online gaming. And I'm not talking about DDO...

So, to summarize what I have seen:

• It's DAoC in Elder Scrolls - RvR, 3 faction, with control points and objectives
• It'll have open dungeons, instanced dungeons and raids.
• It'll have open PvP and instanced PvP (3-FACTION instanced...).
• It'll have a traditional Third-Person hotbar combat interface, with some twists.
• It'll have some dynamic events.
• It'll have guilds to join and gain reputation with.
• It'll have classes (Ok, this one I'm not too hot over, but for PvP balance I can understand).
• More dynamic AI that isn't mindlessly getting slaughtered.
• TES lore-compatiable and monitored by Todd Howard and the single player Loremasters

Between what's out there now, and this... I'll take this.

traditional combat?

yaaawn, had that for what now? 7 years with wow?

can't they come up with sth new? what should we need another lame themepark tab and kill mmo for, wont help if you print elder scrolls on it a million times, what is outdated is just outdated.

Here we go again.  We can't even have a decent discussion because we can't define our terms.  Sandbox means different things to different people.

I love though how developers say things that have been done before can't be done anymore.  Maybe it can't, but it's perhaps more related to lack of vision and talent than any technical limitations.

To me, the appeal of something like a Skyrim is it creates a kind of virtual world setting.  What TESO seems to offer is more of a game world similar to SWTOR from the sounds of it.  I guess we'll have to wait and see, but as I said earlier I'm not getting my hopes up.  There's just too many great games outside of the mmo genre to catch up on and explore.  When the genre becomes compelling again, I'll be there to pick it up once more.  Until then, I'm spending way to much money on videogames :)

If it's true, that's supremely unfortunate. I had hoped they would go the Arche Age/WoD route. In all the Elder Scrolls games you weren't stuck into class-based archetypes, why would they do that for an MMO? That and the phasing/instancing are completely contradictory to Elder Scrolls. 

But...BUT...that only suggests a portion of the game. There might still be sandboxy features, or something else unique to the game that could be interesting. It's also 1-2ish years away so, things can change.

Elder Scrolls themepark...that would be so sad.

Originally posted by Larsa

Full voice acting, no player housing ... where have I read that before?

sigh...exactly.