Lord Bachus,

1.)

you do not understand the point. First let's talk about three facts taken from the thing called "reality":

1.There are enough MMOs out there with endgame-raiding-grinding-needmoreepix-stuff.

2. There are many players complaining about it.

3. Guildwars 1 has been very successfull without these mechanics. And there a still many players playing it.

So now people with those other things called "rational minds" at ArenaNet put these 3 facts together and drew the very logical conclusion:

The next MMO has to deliver fun without grinding and item-progression.

And think about it. Endgame in every MMO means you do the same things over and over again. But here comes the difference: What is better? To do the same thing over and over again, although you hate it and you feel like going to work? Or having the freedom to do whatever you like to do over and over again, because you like to have fun?

For me a game is just a game. If I play chess every day, because I like it, than it is ok. But I will never recieve better chess pieces with better "stats" as a reward for my invested playingtime, that give me a certain advantage over other players in PvP. No. I can leave my chessboard for 2 months and it will be exactly the same.

I and many other just want the same mechanics in an MMO. Easy like that.

2.)

I still do not understand why they disabled names in WvWvW. Half the fun in PvP is to know who you are fighting against, as she explained in the video. But maybe they will change this till release.

3.)

The doors are a problem, because they do not use enough siege-weapons. Now one problem is, that at low-level players do not have enough money to buy siege-weapons. So maybe this is not really a problem. However, the whole door-mechanic can be easily tuned by ArenaNet, so there is no reason to be concerned.

4.)

Nobody can look beyond the first levels currently, because the related content is not in the beta yet. That could be a problem, because many MMOs tend to deliver better polished starter-zones with the rest of the game being mediocre. In this case we just have to wait and see.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx5OTz2JYzg&feature=player_embedded

 

Finally someone that looks past the first experience.

 

Not having any real rewards will make many people leave the game. Maybe Arenanet doesn't really care for that as they allready sold their boxes, but most players will care. In DAoC PvP many people started complaining about their WvW (RvR) after a few weeks as they realised their wasn't any personal reward for playing RvR. then after a few more weeks people started actually leaving because of that. Loosing subs made the DAoC crew that they actually needed things to reward people personal experience for PvPing. And they came up with the realmpoints system.  A very grindy system in its core, that didn't feel grindy because the PVP was that much fun. With realmpoints you could buy abbilities and you got titles. Most important is that the system did not unballance PvP, as the first few points (up to about 40%) where easy atainable.

On top of that another point of proof is that when reaching max level in GW and finishing the story, many many people left the game because they felt like not being rewarded for their playtime. I saw some graphics that most of the players left after finishing the Story in PvE between 1 month and 3 months of buying the game. And they almost all left because there werent any rewards. Maybe i am one of those that dares to admit it, but i do like the taste of carrots on a stick. (as long as progression is kept to a minimum and not overdone like in WoW) This goes for PvP and PVE. if people leave the game, this will be the reason number one, because most of the gaemplay is just awesome. Minor rewards can work without unballancing the game, DAoC prooved that pre atlantis expansion. and getting 5 realmpoints feels totally different then geting 53 cupper.

 

 

Another point of outright criticisme is not having player names shown in WvW. again you need to think back to DAoC as thats clearly the system they wanted to copy. Players where named in the killspam where very important for immersion intoo the RvR. You knew who was fighting you and who you where fighting with. Certain names kept popping up all the time in killspam. And this renown was very very important for the community building in DAoC. There where no player names on top of the players heads, but only their realmtitels. So while copying this part of DAoC they forgot about the thing that replaced it. Killspam, this allowed people to get renown and a name in PvP without being griefed because of their name getting recognised all the time. Things like this shows me that Arenanet hasn't fully understood what small things made RvR in DAoC so very very special. As allways it was the small things.

 

 

THen the criticisme on kjeep doors taking to long to take down. actually she is not complaining about the keepdoors taking to long to take down, but she is complaining about the lack of action during this periode(espescially with undefended keeps), I think they should make the combat around keep doors (NPC part) more action involved. On top of that she complains that mellee people have no place in keep doors action, but she forgets there is no real mellee people (except the guardian) every player should have stacked a ranged weapon when RvRing and doing keep attcks/defenses.

 

 

Good to finally hear someone that looks beyound the greatness of the first hours of this tremendous game. People that still think this game will be perfect are so wrong. However it will still be the best available MMO when it releases by far. And everyone will enjoy the game a lot. But i think there are certain things missing that will keep people from leaving. 

Sad thing is with the no sub system, Anet will care less about people leaving then games with a subsystem, so i do not think these things will be repaired. DAoC did a tremendous job, changing the game to make it more and more atractive to players aover the first year after release.  They added things making the game more attractive to people with criticisme and not making it less attractive to people that allready where happy.

So if Arenanet is truelly listening, they should also listen to this criticisme and not say its not going to happen.

 

WvW reward are based on THE PVE level which was realy low in beta you get more money and so on as u lvl up and competitive pvp rewards glory which is used to purchase better looking pvp gear.

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by simmihi

As for previous posters: the comparison with Doom and FF and whatever single player game with no loot is just plain wrong. Yes you had progression in those games. Your character progressed thru the game, thru the story. Until you killed the final boss or whatever. Then it was over. After you "finished" Doom, did you just reload the last floor 100 times to play it again and again and again, because "it was fun"? It was fun, no doubt, but now you did it, it's done.

That logic is pretty flawed. For one you're assuming Doom was only a single player game. I dunno about you, but my friends & I had a ton of fun doing multiplayer doom. That had huge replay value. It's not unlike counterstrike, you don't play just to get the AWP, and then go 'okay I have the best weapon, i'm gunna leave now'. Hell no. You play for a lot of different reasons. Customizing your character, trying to win, seeing how good you can get w/ any specific build. It's not as 1-dimensional as a gear treadmill. I don't understand why some people still have trouble seeing this. There are soo many examples of games that do not need a gear treadmill to be fun, and have replayability.

I would counter, however, that when my friends and I networked and played DOOM, it was the first time we had ever played a shooter online like that. Novelty, and the fact that we were not always playing it made the experience a lot more fun than it would be now.

In point of fact, whethter people like it or not, WoW and games like it--all the way back to the beginning of MMORPGs--have created this effect.  If the GW2 experience is novel enough, new enough, then they can maybe get away with this. I hope they can, it would be awesome to have that new of an experience. But, player retention in the long term could be a challenge for them, just because of the way this community has evolved.

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

Last time I said GW2 doesn't have an endgame I got a temp ban for it.

So I'm bit uneasy about answering this topic.

I can however say that the OP is exactly right in that most of the MMO gamers hunger for Gear/Character progression. GW2 has very little of these as you unlock all the weapon skills in few hours and get your favourite set of utilities in the following 5-6 hours. After this you get traits that impact your character and these are followed by ELITE skills at lv30 of which you can choose 1. People don't want to realise this and of course they can't see it since the BWE's are so short but the road rage will start 2-4 weeks after the launch once people have burned to the cap. Cosmetic/Achievement/Exploration junkies are a minority in MMO gamers.

The people who know this and are not looking for anything else (i.e GW1 fans) will enjoy the game but the ignorant ones will get severely burned. Much like happened with SWTOR > hitting cap > nothing to do > rage > return to X mmo. GW2 has structured and WvWvW for those that are interested though.

You won't find many people who think likewise from here because this is the major issue why people are completely disgusted by GW2 and don't want to go near it. 

Having no endgame is the core mechanic of GW2 and people who are looking for an actual endgame and an awesome character/gear progression should head over to The Secret World which launches 19th of june ;)

Sorry with that reasoning TSW has even more to fear. On top of that there is Funcom's abyssmal track record when it comes to MMO's. Have fun playing your broken game :)

Care to clarify!?

There are 525 abilities to unlock none of which are "useless" and it has a really steep gear grind which gets empowered by the need of getting different gear for every spec. The abilities are also tiered so you'll be getting better ones as you keep on playing.  I'd rather play a broken version of TSW than a perfectly working version of GW2.

What i find a bit ridiculous about this thread is the title.

Because honestly to me its pretty clear this girl don't go past her first experience, and she don't claim otherwise, its a preview, she took a long time to explain it at the very beginning of her video.
Its certainly not an in dept video of the state of GW2, quiet the contrary, its about pure reaction of a new player trying the game for the first time.

Believe me OP you seam genuinely interested in GW2, if you want an in dept look at the state game watch the video i linked you in my preview post here.

Originally posted by sanshi44

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx5OTz2JYzg&feature=player_embedded

 

Finally someone that looks past the first experience.

 

Not having any real rewards will make many people leave the game. Maybe Arenanet doesn't really care for that as they allready sold their boxes, but most players will care. In DAoC PvP many people started complaining about their WvW (RvR) after a few weeks as they realised their wasn't any personal reward for playing RvR. then after a few more weeks people started actually leaving because of that. Loosing subs made the DAoC crew that they actually needed things to reward people personal experience for PvPing. And they came up with the realmpoints system.  A very grindy system in its core, that didn't feel grindy because the PVP was that much fun. With realmpoints you could buy abbilities and you got titles. Most important is that the system did not unballance PvP, as the first few points (up to about 40%) where easy atainable.

On top of that another point of proof is that when reaching max level in GW and finishing the story, many many people left the game because they felt like not being rewarded for their playtime. I saw some graphics that most of the players left after finishing the Story in PvE between 1 month and 3 months of buying the game. And they almost all left because there werent any rewards. Maybe i am one of those that dares to admit it, but i do like the taste of carrots on a stick. (as long as progression is kept to a minimum and not overdone like in WoW) This goes for PvP and PVE. if people leave the game, this will be the reason number one, because most of the gaemplay is just awesome. Minor rewards can work without unballancing the game, DAoC prooved that pre atlantis expansion. and getting 5 realmpoints feels totally different then geting 53 cupper.

 

 

Another point of outright criticisme is not having player names shown in WvW. again you need to think back to DAoC as thats clearly the system they wanted to copy. Players where named in the killspam where very important for immersion intoo the RvR. You knew who was fighting you and who you where fighting with. Certain names kept popping up all the time in killspam. And this renown was very very important for the community building in DAoC. There where no player names on top of the players heads, but only their realmtitels. So while copying this part of DAoC they forgot about the thing that replaced it. Killspam, this allowed people to get renown and a name in PvP without being griefed because of their name getting recognised all the time. Things like this shows me that Arenanet hasn't fully understood what small things made RvR in DAoC so very very special. As allways it was the small things.

 

 

THen the criticisme on kjeep doors taking to long to take down. actually she is not complaining about the keepdoors taking to long to take down, but she is complaining about the lack of action during this periode(espescially with undefended keeps), I think they should make the combat around keep doors (NPC part) more action involved. On top of that she complains that mellee people have no place in keep doors action, but she forgets there is no real mellee people (except the guardian) every player should have stacked a ranged weapon when RvRing and doing keep attcks/defenses.

 

 

Good to finally hear someone that looks beyound the greatness of the first hours of this tremendous game. People that still think this game will be perfect are so wrong. However it will still be the best available MMO when it releases by far. And everyone will enjoy the game a lot. But i think there are certain things missing that will keep people from leaving. 

Sad thing is with the no sub system, Anet will care less about people leaving then games with a subsystem, so i do not think these things will be repaired. DAoC did a tremendous job, changing the game to make it more and more atractive to players aover the first year after release.  They added things making the game more attractive to people with criticisme and not making it less attractive to people that allready where happy.

So if Arenanet is truelly listening, they should also listen to this criticisme and not say its not going to happen.

 

WvW reward are based on THE PVE level which was realy low in beta you get more money and so on as u lvl up and competitive pvp rewards glory which is used to purchase better looking pvp gear.

The amount of coins does not matter, as coins will be useless to me for anything else but buying seige engines.

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

Originally posted by Connmacart

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

Last time I said GW2 doesn't have an endgame I got a temp ban for it.

So I'm bit uneasy about answering this topic.

I can however say that the OP is exactly right in that most of the MMO gamers hunger for Gear/Character progression. GW2 has very little of these as you unlock all the weapon skills in few hours and get your favourite set of utilities in the following 5-6 hours. After this you get traits that impact your character and these are followed by ELITE skills at lv30 of which you can choose 1. People don't want to realise this and of course they can't see it since the BWE's are so short but the road rage will start 2-4 weeks after the launch once people have burned to the cap. Cosmetic/Achievement/Exploration junkies are a minority in MMO gamers.

The people who know this and are not looking for anything else (i.e GW1 fans) will enjoy the game but the ignorant ones will get severely burned. Much like happened with SWTOR > hitting cap > nothing to do > rage > return to X mmo. GW2 has structured and WvWvW for those that are interested though.

You won't find many people who think likewise from here because this is the major issue why people are completely disgusted by GW2 and don't want to go near it. 

Having no endgame is the core mechanic of GW2 and people who are looking for an actual endgame and an awesome character/gear progression should head over to The Secret World which launches 19th of june ;)

Sorry with that reasoning TSW has even more to fear. On top of that there is Funcom's abyssmal track record when it comes to MMO's. Have fun playing your broken game :)

Care to clarify!?

There are 525 abilities to unlock none of which are "useless" and it has a really steep gear grind which gets empowered by the need of getting different gear for every spec. The abilities are also tiered so you'll be getting better ones as you keep on playing.  I'd rather play a broken version of TSW than a perfectly working version of GW2.

I'm the other way, I"d rather play a broken version of GW2 than any other MMO, I want another beta!:(

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

Last time I said GW2 doesn't have an endgame I got a temp ban for it.

So I'm bit uneasy about answering this topic.

I can however say that the OP is exactly right in that most of the MMO gamers hunger for Gear/Character progression. GW2 has very little of these as you unlock all the weapon skills in few hours and get your favourite set of utilities in the following 5-6 hours. After this you get traits that impact your character and these are followed by ELITE skills at lv30 of which you can choose 1. People don't want to realise this and of course they can't see it since the BWE's are so short but the road rage will start 2-4 weeks after the launch once people have burned to the cap. Cosmetic/Achievement/Exploration junkies are a minority in MMO gamers.

The people who know this and are not looking for anything else (i.e GW1 fans) will enjoy the game but the ignorant ones will get severely burned. Much like happened with SWTOR > hitting cap > nothing to do > rage > return to X mmo. GW2 has structured and WvWvW for those that are interested though.

You won't find many people who think likewise from here because this is the major issue why people are completely disgusted by GW2 and don't want to go near it. 

Having no endgame is the core mechanic of GW2 and people who are looking for an actual endgame and an awesome character/gear progression should head over to The Secret World which launches 19th of june ;)

To each their own then, I felt more satisfying character progression in GW2 than in anything post WoW in which you play one game to max level, then bang your head against the ceiling for months in a different game and the *only* occasional progression you even see is the same raid bought gear everyone else has anyway. 

Even in Rift which supposedly offered a wide variety of builds, every class ended up the same up through Akylios anyway.

TSW? Really? I haven't seen many games that are less appealing.

Either way I don't think it matters, it's clear from the tone of your posts you're on a very specfic crusade rather than interested in rationally discussing things.

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Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

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The amount of coins does not matter, as coins will be useless to me for anything else but buying seige engines.

---

I told you, i unlocked my best gear with glory points, now if you prefer doing something else with it, its you choice, but saying it give you no reward is false. Also if you buy siege engine with them and are doing well they should in fact gave you even more glory points at the end of said event, since how well you do in an event determine the amount of glory points you get.

I understand some of her points in the vid, but she lost me when she complained about the Battlegrounds being to stock and like "WoW".  This is the same girl gushing over SWTOR battlegrounds and has tons of vids of her playing on the Alderaan and voidstar battlegrounds.  Where are the same complaints about those "stock" "WoW" type battlegrounds?

I can get behind wanting more reward for PVPing in GW2 and making keep doors take less time to destroy, but it is Beta and these are things they may still be balancing and working on.  

I do agree with the name tag issue.  I got confused myself my first day in WvWvW as I thought I was watching a group of NPC's attacking a keep gate and it didn't dawn on me at all that they were actual players.  

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx5OTz2JYzg&feature=player_embedded

 

Finally someone that looks past the first experience.

 

Not having any real rewards will make many people leave the game. Maybe Arenanet doesn't really care for that as they allready sold their boxes, but most players will care. In DAoC PvP many people started complaining about their WvW (RvR) after a few weeks as they realised their wasn't any personal reward for playing RvR. then after a few more weeks people started actually leaving because of that. Loosing subs made the DAoC crew that they actually needed things to reward people personal experience for PvPing. And they came up with the realmpoints system.  A very grindy system in its core, that didn't feel grindy because the PVP was that much fun. With realmpoints you could buy abbilities and you got titles. Most important is that the system did not unballance PvP, as the first few points (up to about 40%) where easy atainable.

On top of that another point of proof is that when reaching max level in GW and finishing the story, many many people left the game because they felt like not being rewarded for their playtime. I saw some graphics that most of the players left after finishing the Story in PvE between 1 month and 3 months of buying the game. And they almost all left because there werent any rewards. Maybe i am one of those that dares to admit it, but i do like the taste of carrots on a stick. (as long as progression is kept to a minimum and not overdone like in WoW) This goes for PvP and PVE. if people leave the game, this will be the reason number one, because most of the gaemplay is just awesome. Minor rewards can work without unballancing the game, DAoC prooved that pre atlantis expansion. and getting 5 realmpoints feels totally different then geting 53 cupper.

 

 

Another point of outright criticisme is not having player names shown in WvW. again you need to think back to DAoC as thats clearly the system they wanted to copy. Players where named in the killspam where very important for immersion intoo the RvR. You knew who was fighting you and who you where fighting with. Certain names kept popping up all the time in killspam. And this renown was very very important for the community building in DAoC. There where no player names on top of the players heads, but only their realmtitels. So while copying this part of DAoC they forgot about the thing that replaced it. Killspam, this allowed people to get renown and a name in PvP without being griefed because of their name getting recognised all the time. Things like this shows me that Arenanet hasn't fully understood what small things made RvR in DAoC so very very special. As allways it was the small things.

 

 

THen the criticisme on kjeep doors taking to long to take down. actually she is not complaining about the keepdoors taking to long to take down, but she is complaining about the lack of action during this periode(espescially with undefended keeps), I think they should make the combat around keep doors (NPC part) more action involved. On top of that she complains that mellee people have no place in keep doors action, but she forgets there is no real mellee people (except the guardian) every player should have stacked a ranged weapon when RvRing and doing keep attcks/defenses.

 

 

Good to finally hear someone that looks beyound the greatness of the first hours of this tremendous game. People that still think this game will be perfect are so wrong. However it will still be the best available MMO when it releases by far. And everyone will enjoy the game a lot. But i think there are certain things missing that will keep people from leaving. 

Sad thing is with the no sub system, Anet will care less about people leaving then games with a subsystem, so i do not think these things will be repaired. DAoC did a tremendous job, changing the game to make it more and more atractive to players aover the first year after release.  They added things making the game more attractive to people with criticisme and not making it less attractive to people that allready where happy.

So if Arenanet is truelly listening, they should also listen to this criticisme and not say its not going to happen.

 

Probably she autoattacked her way through the keep, thus being rewarded only a couple of copper pieces. My experiences differ from her and I could pay other weapons with the money I got from WvW.

Right now I am mostly concerned with possibility of OP AOE and ranged attacks ( especially in 3W pvp ), game performence with large groups of players in the same area and 3W and not enough dodge energy.

Originally posted by IPolygon

Probably she autoattacked her way through the keep, thus being rewarded only a couple of copper pieces. My experiences differ from her and I could pay other weapons with the money I got from WvW.

Ye pretty much, i don't think WvW was made for japanese tourist to come picture the nice building and throw few aoe at a door. It is made for groups to build strategical play around taking maps defended by forts and castles over a few week match. So once more the op video is just a preview, nothing wrong here, but take it for what it is.

I agree with the OP for the most part.

For me, the best part of DAOC PvP was the RR system. To be able to improve your character with new abilities through PvP was what kept me playing that game for years.  When WAR came out I was happy to see a similar system but the stats you got from PvP in WAR were next to useless so they implemented it poorly.

When my friends and guildmates asked for my verdict on GW2 I said, " it was a great game but here's what your not going to like."  Then proceeded to tell them about this very thing.  It was an instant turn off for all of them.  A few asked "Why keep playing at 80 if there is zero progression of any type"?  I had no answer for them. 

I'm not saying that people won't like this system.  I'm just saying that myself, and everyone I've been playing games with for the last decade arn't too fired up about meaningless PvP for PvP's sake as an endgame.

I know myself and I can guarantee that I will play through this game once, stick around for a week or two after, then move on out of boredom if things stay as is.

I still dont understand the problem with name plates for the enemy.

No, Anet did not forget that part when they copied the RvR from DAOC, I cant believe they would just "forget" that. When I think about it, the answer seems to be community.

Anet has done alot to promote community and co-op, and I think having players not concentrating on the enemies name, and instead focusing on thier team, builds a stronger community and a better game.

Also, since we are facing a new server every 2 weeks, it makes even more sense.

Originally posted by aesperus

.. She definitely was playing like a WoW player (and I don't mean that in a derogatory manner, just that the game is setup quite a bit differently, and has a completely different mindset to go with it.) ..

 

1) Rewards. I'm going to assume that she's mostly talking about money. She makes a point to gribe about the 50 copper, and I have to say that I agree. 

I disagree - dont forget those rewards are scaled accordingly to your lvl. Maybe in the lower lvls there is some kind of +-0 balance, there is no evidence that it stays this way. I am pretty sure that 50 copper is the same reward you get for succesfully completing pve events (lvl5ish?) with the difference that in pvp you have the "potential" to die more often, but ya thats also what immersion is: fair rewards.

..You should have at least enough for a few repairs, after taking a major keep..

true that ..but i rly think that is already the case

..would be good to have an auto-loot feature in WvW. It's really easy to miss looting the enemy players you kill, and in big battles, you don't want to stop just to loot everyone you've killed. You want to stay focused on the objective at hand..

right - immersion is when you can't have everything at the same time (battlefocus, action, looting, burning..) so make your decision: loot or fight -> no to auto-loot

2) Melee vs. Ranged. I'm really getting tired of this, but I suppose I have to bring this up again. While yes, it is easier to stand back and spam AoE (you can basically do that w/ out thinking), it doesn't mean melee are weaker, or less useful. While I don't think it'll happen, I think these same people that are whining about melee, will be the same people that whine about melee being overpowered when they get buffed.

I agree 100%

 

..What a lot of people are complaining about (when it comes to the PvP) are zerg mentallity. It's easy to get rocked as a melee in a zerg, if you or your teamm8s are clueless (which is most of the time, in a zerg). An organized group is another story entirely..

 

3) Keep Doors. I'm sure she's not alone in this complaint, however. Keeps are supposed to be difficult to take. It's not something you should easily be able to do w/ a small PUG. Balancing for that would result in keeps being almost worthless to defend, and would quickly turn into a base trading game.

Furthermore, you may have noticed that as she's talking about it, the footage shows them attacking a REINFORCED GATE. I know she just pulled that off the web, but i'm not sure she knows what that means. You can upgrade your keeps defenses (for a price) to make it harder to take. Upgraded keeps are not supposed to be easy. There's a number of things you can do against an upgraded keep, but a lot of the time it means you're going to need siege weapons (yet another thing melee is good for). You can try and brute force the door. You can bombard the defenders on the walls. You can say 'screw the gate' and bombard one of the actual walls (and quite a few people have taken keeps this way. It's harder to defend against).

If someone is repair spamming a keep, 1 or 2 things needs to happen. You need to cut off their supply (they can't repair w/ out supply). Or you need to attack multiple points (spread out the supply they are using). Again, it all comes down to strategy. Here's an example of some intelligent WvW play, with a smaller guild going up against a much larger force. Just to give you guys some perspective on what is possible. (heads up, it's long)

You nailed that!  :)

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Originally posted by Bakami

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Originally posted by aesperus

If someone is repair spamming a keep, 1 or 2 things needs to happen.

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You cannot repair a door that is under fire, i especially tested it myself, this is just impossible, the amount of aoe will insta kill you, even if you are behind the door, and nobody will be able to come close to you to res you without dieing. You can repair when nobody is attacking it though.

Originally posted by Sybnal

I mostly agree with the OP for the most part.

For me, the best part of DAOC PvP was the RR system. To be able to improve your character with new abilities through PvP was what kept me playing that game for years.  When WAR came out I was happy to see a similar system but the stats you got from PvP in WAR were next to useless so they implemented it poorly.

When my friends and guildmates asked for my verdict on GW2 I said, " it was a great game but here's what your not going to like."  Then proceeded to tell them about this very thing.  It was an instant turn off for all of them.  A few asked "Why keep playing at 80 if there is zero progression of any type"?  I had no answer for them. 

I'm not saying that people won't like this system.  I'm just saying that myself, and everyone I've been playing games with for the last decade arn't too fired up about meaningless PvP for PvP's sake as an endgame.

I know myself and I can guarantee that I will play through this game once, stick around for a week or two after, then move on out of boredom if things stay as is.

This - except I expect to be playing for 12 weeks (ironically just about the same amount of time I stuck with SWTOR). The GW2 world is just incredible and so much more than just pvp but, with no rewards after max level execpt for achievements I don't see staying much longer. Plus, the idea of going back and fighting lower level bosses at their level does not sound fun to me. I level so that it is easier for me to fight bosses. This may be a fun challenge for skilled players but for others (like me) it is an exercise in frustration.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by Djildjamesh

Some making the assumption everyone expects to play this game for 7 years.

If my first 150 hours on this game are going to be as amazing as i think they will  be. It'll be money good spend.

I do agree with that.

 

However, many people wil get upset, as they still want to play the game with the best game mechanics after those 150 hours. but they are missing the rewards system. It will give a very unruly community of MMO ers with no place to go. Playing the best game, and still feeling empty after playing it.  Just fun is not enough for the majorrity of the MMO players. and there will be an uprise as they dont want to leave the world of Tyria, but still feel unhappy and uncomplete in it.

If the only rewards you'll be happy with are the carrot on a stick gear treadmill based ones, well, this isn't the game for you, period. The complaints about the keep attacks are ridiculous. They're not aware you can take down walls? Seige equipement can be built, utilized and defended?

Someone wants GW2 to be the next WoW. Not gonna happen.