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News & Features Discussion  » TERA: Guild Wars 2 vs TERA

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  Nightverge

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/12
Posts: 216

5/03/12 9:44:25 PM#321
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Sythion
Originally posted by ElVisitante

As for the combat, it is pretty much an ability spam-fest (In PvE). I would use all of my abilites that weren't pure CC abilities on cooldown until the mob I was fighting was dead. I didn't think about it, just pressed them and in a few seconds mob was dead. Woo.

WHAT?

What class were you playing. This is a ridiculous statement from my experience.

To be fair, that's how most people start out playing. That is until they realize that if you stop spamming and time your abilities, you perform better. It takes a bit of practice to realize that certain abilities should be used at certain times.

     Perhaps but he said he reached level 25. I'm not sure where or what he was playing as but from my experience button mashing at that level was gaurantee'd death. I came up with that elaborate scheme out of necessity. I HAD to become mobile and use my theifs skills appropriately less I be facing the floor.

     Again, its not our place to tell him the experience he had. I just can't understand it though. What I experienced was too different.

  Sythion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/30/11
Posts: 427

5/03/12 9:54:06 PM#322
Originally posted by ElVisitante

As for the kill/fetch/collect/etc quests, I never said I was tired of them.

This sheds some light on why you're unimpressed by DE's. If you don't feel the need for a change, then any change is going to seem unnecessary and unimpressive. IF you're like me, and you want to stick your finger as deep down your throat as you can everytime you see really bad quest grind to purge your body of the experience, then the DE/Heart/Exploration focus is a huge improvement. 

And for the combat, I played an elementalist. Maybe thief was more engaging, but all I did as an elementalist was use all my damage abilities in, say, fire attunement, then swtich to electricity and use all of those, then switch to water, etc.

Interesting. I'll try that class next BWE to compare it to thief and guardian.

It seems that all classes have at least some mechanic that stops spamming though. I could burn through all my initiative (energy) as a thief in about 5 seconds and screw myself over if I spammed. Meanwhile, the guardian is limited by large cooldown times, so using the abilities when they are most effective becomes more important since you are going to have a long wait to use it again.

Elementalists should have some mechanic to stop spamming as well, but maybe it's just a poorly designed class.

 

  natuxatu

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/12/03
Posts: 1374

Bookah

5/03/12 9:56:34 PM#323

How can you pit a game that hasn't even been released to a game that's been out for a year and just released in the states.


Stupid article, from a less than professional site.


  Piscore

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/27/07
Posts: 92

5/03/12 9:57:00 PM#324

Tera - Start 10 servers.

GW2 - Start 25 servers US and 25 servers EU

 

Thx.

l2p

  Nightverge

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/12
Posts: 216

5/03/12 9:57:46 PM#325
Originally posted by ElVisitante

Originally posted by Nightshade55


Originally posted by ElVisitante





Originally posted by Nightshade55







Originally posted by Jimmydean






TERA may have the boring quest grind system in place, but what of the DE's? Are they not merely quest grinding? Won't the same DE get old the 5th time you've done it on the 3rd character you are leveling? I'm not going to base my opinions of a game on something that will be dull in a month anyways. GW2 has no character progression. For people that love spamming battlegrounds / WvWvW I'm sure this is fine, but for people that play MMORPGs for character progression and advancement, GW2 will be a 1 month affair. 




I also don't know how people can even begin to compare GW2s combat to TERAs.  Run around in circles like a chicken with your head cut off hoping that your latency is better than your enemies (GW2) or strategic aim-based combat where every move you make has benefits / risks associated with it (TERA). 




That being said, I play TERA now, and will buy GW2 as well. The DE's will be fun to see once and I'm sure I can hop in PVP from time to time. GW2 will always just be a secondary game though, but with no sub? Who cares.




     I had to step in here. This is astoundingly not how it works. For one DE's are not merely quest grinding. You were asking a question so I won't slam you for that. But they are far more. Its something you have to experience. Even the starting area DE's far surpase regular questing but forget about the DE's in 10+ and 20+ areas. We never even got to the DE's beyond level 30 because that was the cap for the beta.




     There is way more character progression. That statement alone shows you didn't even read the article this post was based off of. Read the article.




     Latency issues are there because its beta. I sound like a broken record here. Beta is a test, why nobody can understand the concept I'm not sure. The game isn't even optomized yet. The graphics still use the CPU and not graphics cards. Guilds are capped at 100 (for the betas) and balancing issues are present. Its beta. Don't use beta's as demos. Its borderline criminal. You accept the agreement to get into the beta that says WORK IN PROGRESS then people judge it like its the finished product shipped and labled.




     Its not done. There has been no balance tuning at all before the beta. That's what beta's are for. You know you are completely wrong in your assessment of GW2 combat. You know you are. That was such a huge hyperbole its borderline lying.




     You are significantly undermining the value of DE's but you will see, you will see. I have page long posts about DE's I've experienced as a 26 thief. Entire zone geographies change based on the success or failure of DE's. The starting zone DE's have no real consequence or benefit because, as Anet said on the beta forums, DE's with zone wide consequences that early frusterated players. People were just getting the hang of how to play. Slapping them with overwhelming DE's in the starting zone was a recipie for frusteration.




     I can tell you have no idea what your talking about for the combat. GW2 is strategic, fast, and fluid. Laying down utility skills at just the right time, knowing when to use your dodge (or block skill as a character with a shield, yes, GW2 has a block also, you just need a shield). I played Tera and unless your piss poor at aiming there is really no impact of the aim system. I'm not going to utterly bash it though because it was fun. Not worth it for me but still fun. You don't know how the two compare because you've only played one out of the two your comparing.




     Ask anyone who has made it past the beginning areas, hell, even in the beginning areas. Anyone that has given the game a fair shake and actually participated loved the combat. The beta forums had not one complaint regarding combat aside from latency issues which are obvious. Its beta.




     I can't wait till the game comes out. Even during the SWTOR beta's, Tera beta's, Diablo beta's, all of them pissed the hell out of me when people would use them as demo's then come to me and complain about latency. All of those games have virtually zero latency issues now. Know why? when you played them they were trying to find issues like that. They found them, and fixed them. Its what beta is for.




 




JOIN THE MOVEMENT, STOP USING BETA'S AS DEMOS!







 



You really shouldn't use that "Anyone who played says it was great" line, because it's not true. I played and got to 25, and I found it pretty uninspiring. Dynamic events really are nothing more than glorified quests. I've done escort quests in other games before. I've had defend the point quests in other games before. I've had clear-out-an-enemy-from-a-base quests before. All of which GW2 takes and presents as dynamic events and expects everyone to drool over them.




 




As for the combat, it is pretty much an ability spam-fest (In PvE). I would use all of my abilites that weren't pure CC abilities on cooldown until the mob I was fighting was dead. I didn't think about it, just pressed them and in a few seconds mob was dead. Woo.




So next time, rethink the whole absolute "Everyone thought it was awesome" statement. It basically disqualifies everything else you say.


     I'll concede there. I really meant to assert a majority assessment. Lets find some common ground. So your saying DE's are glorfied quests right? So you would prefer the quest log approach then? If so then we have nothing more to debate really. That would be a fundamental difference in viewpoint that I disagree with. Hated the old quest log christmas tree quest style.


     If we can both admit that this way is better than does our debate really even matter? I am truly shocked that you found them "uninspiring" at 25. I can't even begin to fathom what games you have played to make that seem uninspired. Because of that I also won't attempt to understand it. I played it too and I found it completely revolutionary. I could go on about zone wide DE's but sense you've got to 25. You know all about the ice titan and armies of the deep so I won't go into them.


     Is there any chance for an MMO with you then? Of course you've done these things before. That's all there is to do in an MMO. What else could you possibly make the game do aside from some form of gathering, killing, escorting, defending, attacking, preventing, etc? I feel your argument is similar to saying "well GoW is nothing new because I've killed things before". All you ever did in GoW was a giant kill quest. Its not what your doing, its how its presented. As gamers we have been killing, escorting, and solving shit sense mario.


     I didn't find it as an ability spam in the least. Again some of the DE's require more balancing so maybe once things have upped in challenge a bit you would play more strategically. I can't say how you approached combat. I can say how I did. I considered every move. By the end if I had chosen a wrong move to use I was dead. I knew when to use heartseeker, flying lotus and, especially, cloak and dagger. I knew when to lay down my utilities and cooked up elaborate plans for luring enemies into traps. For example, as a theif, I was highly mobile. I would roll into combat to avoid any initial strikes, Get a few strikes off, roll out when a hit was emenent. Heartseeker in and use flying lotus immediately after. Allowing me to leap close and then leap over the enemy. From there I'd use my utility to regain my dodge ability and roll out to get space. I'd then use my tripwire utility to trip the enemy and land blows until my intuition got high enough for cloak and dagger. I'd use that move to lower defense and turn invisable. As the searched I would pop out with heartseeker for a crit. That is hardly spamming buttons.


     I do appreciate your attack on my unnecessary generalization though. I did generalize only because I have never met someone who experienced it to have the same response as you apparently.



 

I will admit that I didn't play in the latest beta but in the closed one a few weeks prior, which is what made me not want to buy the game to gain access to the one that you're probably speaking of.


That said, I'm not quite sure what those things you're referring to are. All I can say is I played through the human starter zone, the 15-25 human zone, and the 15-25 snowy/icy zone next to it. During my time there I don't remember anything particularly spectacular, and nothing like the events that you thought were so great.


As for the kill/fetch/collect/etc quests, I never said I was tired of them. I just said that GW2 has basically those exact types of quests, which left me feeling disappointed after all the "revolutonary questing" hype that it built up. The heart quests are particular offenders. You essentially get a kill quest, a collect quest, and a fetch quest squished into one quest when you enter the appriopriate area. You can do any combination of them to finish the quest, true, but since you likely end up doing all three anyway, you might as well be doing three separate quests like in other MMOs. All that does is remove the quest text which at least gave you a background on why you were doing what  you're doing. Now I'm just killing rodents and collecting crops for a farmer I don't even know or have ever spoken to.


Also, if you'd read the review up top at all, you'd see that Luke said "Whilst I’d never claim TERA does anything but recycle the tired MMO norm of “kill X rats” or escort quests, neither does Guild Wars 2 once you take away the manner in which they’re delivered to you." So right there is another person who had the same response as me.


And for the combat, I played an elementalist. Maybe thief was more engaging, but all I did as an elementalist was use all my damage abilities in, say, fire attunement, then swtich to electricity and use all of those, then switch to water, etc.

     By the way thank you for the actual critique and not just flaming rampantly. Be careful about talking about what was and wasn't in the closed beta. Closed beta's are always under NDA. Its unlikely that they will track you but if they do its actually a pretty hefty fine and some jail-time depending on what you said. Not threatening just relating what one of my buddies has experienced (broke the NDA for Diablo 3 resently in one of their closed betas).

     Moving on though I can't say what was in the closed beta, I wasn't in it. Even if I was I still couldn't say due to NDA. However, there may be something there for you to check out in the future then. I'm not saying go out and pre-purchase now to see the next beta. Just keep an open mind. it sounds like there is a lot of stuff in there now that wasn't there. We are talking about beta flux after all. The game will be completely different than it is now upon release. Sometimes that's for worse but Anet has been truly listening to its beta testers so I doubt that'll be the case.

     Ok so If I understand correctly here is our common ground regarding DE's. The things you do aren't new as general game activities go. The way that you do them is. (Which I argue that nothing you do in any game is ever new. As I stated we've been doing these kill quests and such sense mario. Again, GoW is a giant kill quest. Skyrim, DA:O, and all games have the same quests and activities you do here. There literally is nothing else to do in a game that is interesting and fun that is not a variation of these archtypes). DE's are better than the old quest system.

     That last part I'm not sure is middle ground yet because you haven't actually said that. I can't imagine anyone preferring ol' quest log though. Then again, I can't imagine anyone experiencing the events I did to find them uninspired. Then, yet AGAIN, you may or may not have done the events I did.

     I never tried an elementalist so I can't comment on it. The ones I saw were dodging and rolling and it looked fine. I haven't played as one. Again though,  you participated in an extremely old build of the game it seems. Thus, you may want to reserve judgement.

  jogumby

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/27/05
Posts: 18

5/03/12 9:59:05 PM#326

I find it interesting that both guys liked combat in Tera. It's the entire reason I quit already. All the classes seemed the exact same to me. The movement factor was interesting but the hold down key to auto-fire got dull pretty quick. I won't say GW2 is better just yet as I had to work most of my first beta weekend and had little play time. But in all other aspects (including price) GW2 seems more fun right now :)


  ElVisitante

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/12
Posts: 47

5/03/12 10:14:50 PM#327

Originally posted by Nightshade55



     By the way thank you for the actual critique and not just flaming rampantly. Be careful about talking about what was and wasn't in the closed beta. Closed beta's are always under NDA. Its unlikely that they will track you but if they do its actually a pretty hefty fine and some jail-time depending on what you said. Not threatening just relating what one of my buddies has experienced (broke the NDA for Diablo 3 resently in one of their closed betas).


     Moving on though I can't say what was in the closed beta, I wasn't in it. Even if I was I still couldn't say due to NDA. However, there may be something there for you to check out in the future then. I'm not saying go out and pre-purchase now to see the next beta. Just keep an open mind. it sounds like there is a lot of stuff in there now that wasn't there. We are talking about beta flux after all. The game will be completely different than it is now upon release. Sometimes that's for worse but Anet has been truly listening to its beta testers so I doubt that'll be the case.


     Ok so If I understand correctly here is our common ground regarding DE's. The things you do aren't new as general game activities go. The way that you do them is. (Which I argue that nothing you do in any game is ever new. As I stated we've been doing these kill quests and such sense mario. Again, GoW is a giant kill quest. Skyrim, DA:O, and all games have the same quests and activities you do here. There literally is nothing else to do in a game that is interesting and fun that is not a variation of these archtypes). DE's are better than the old quest system.


     That last part I'm not sure is middle ground yet because you haven't actually said that. I can't imagine anyone preferring ol' quest log though. Then again, I can't imagine anyone experiencing the events I did to find them uninspired. Then, yet AGAIN, you may or may not have done the events I did.


     I never tried an elementalist so I can't comment on it. The ones I saw were dodging and rolling and it looked fine. I haven't played as one. Again though,  you participated in an extremely old build of the game it seems. Thus, you may want to reserve judgement.



 


The way you do quests isn't better, in my opinion. Instead of interacting with who I'm doing quests for, I just get slapped with the quest when I enter the area with no idea why I'm doing it. Convenient to be sure, but not very immersive. For almost all the heart quests and many of the dynamic events this is the case. Of course there are certain events like a town invasion that don't need explanation, but then afterwards you don't get any feedback from thankful npcs or anything. The mail letters after the fact simply don't involve you as much as actual speaking, yet they still function like quest text essentially. The reason I think GW2's quests are better than TERA's is because of the variety, not because of any revolutionary touted dynamism.


I do dodge and roll, but TERA has dodge and roll too and implemented in a much more meaningful way. Again, definitely not bad, just uninteresting.


 


  natuxatu

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/12/03
Posts: 1374

Bookah

5/03/12 10:15:31 PM#328

I also don't think Terra's combat is all that different from GW2.. in GW2 (unlike most mmos) the skill will go off whether you are in range or not.. so to that degree there is aiming involved it's just less clumsy than in Terra.. this article is a joke..


  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

5/03/12 10:23:13 PM#329
Originally posted by Nightshade55
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Sythion
Originally posted by ElVisitante

As for the combat, it is pretty much an ability spam-fest (In PvE). I would use all of my abilites that weren't pure CC abilities on cooldown until the mob I was fighting was dead. I didn't think about it, just pressed them and in a few seconds mob was dead. Woo.

WHAT?

What class were you playing. This is a ridiculous statement from my experience.

To be fair, that's how most people start out playing. That is until they realize that if you stop spamming and time your abilities, you perform better. It takes a bit of practice to realize that certain abilities should be used at certain times.

     Perhaps but he said he reached level 25. I'm not sure where or what he was playing as but from my experience button mashing at that level was gaurantee'd death. I came up with that elaborate scheme out of necessity. I HAD to become mobile and use my theifs skills appropriately less I be facing the floor.

     Again, its not our place to tell him the experience he had. I just can't understand it though. What I experienced was too different.

I think that a lot of the people who make claims about the combat being too spammy and dynamic events being like WAR's PQs or worse glorified quests, have not played very far past level 6 and the starting areas around the capitals.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

5/03/12 10:29:52 PM#330
Originally posted by ElVisitante

Originally posted by Nightshade55



     By the way thank you for the actual critique and not just flaming rampantly. Be careful about talking about what was and wasn't in the closed beta. Closed beta's are always under NDA. Its unlikely that they will track you but if they do its actually a pretty hefty fine and some jail-time depending on what you said. Not threatening just relating what one of my buddies has experienced (broke the NDA for Diablo 3 resently in one of their closed betas).


     Moving on though I can't say what was in the closed beta, I wasn't in it. Even if I was I still couldn't say due to NDA. However, there may be something there for you to check out in the future then. I'm not saying go out and pre-purchase now to see the next beta. Just keep an open mind. it sounds like there is a lot of stuff in there now that wasn't there. We are talking about beta flux after all. The game will be completely different than it is now upon release. Sometimes that's for worse but Anet has been truly listening to its beta testers so I doubt that'll be the case.


     Ok so If I understand correctly here is our common ground regarding DE's. The things you do aren't new as general game activities go. The way that you do them is. (Which I argue that nothing you do in any game is ever new. As I stated we've been doing these kill quests and such sense mario. Again, GoW is a giant kill quest. Skyrim, DA:O, and all games have the same quests and activities you do here. There literally is nothing else to do in a game that is interesting and fun that is not a variation of these archtypes). DE's are better than the old quest system.


     That last part I'm not sure is middle ground yet because you haven't actually said that. I can't imagine anyone preferring ol' quest log though. Then again, I can't imagine anyone experiencing the events I did to find them uninspired. Then, yet AGAIN, you may or may not have done the events I did.


     I never tried an elementalist so I can't comment on it. The ones I saw were dodging and rolling and it looked fine. I haven't played as one. Again though,  you participated in an extremely old build of the game it seems. Thus, you may want to reserve judgement.



 

The way you do quests isn't better, in my opinion. Instead of interacting with who I'm doing quests for, I just get slapped with the quest when I enter the area with no idea why I'm doing it. Convenient to be sure, but not very immersive. For almost all the heart quests and many of the dynamic events this is the case. Of course there are certain events like a town invasion that don't need explanation, but then afterwards you don't get any feedback from thankful npcs or anything. The mail letters after the fact simply don't involve you as much as actual speaking, yet they still function like quest text essentially. The reason I think GW2's quests are better than TERA's is because of the variety, not because of any revolutionary touted dynamism.


I do dodge and roll, but TERA has dodge and roll too and implemented in a much more meaningful way. Again, definitely not bad, just uninteresting.


 

Had you actually played to level 25, like you claim, you would have known that very often dynamic events lead to other dynamic events based on the outcome.

However, the major difference between dynamic events and quests is that quests are always static and dynamic events happen whether there are players present there or not.

  ElVisitante

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/12
Posts: 47

5/03/12 10:35:00 PM#331

Originally posted by heartless


Originally posted by ElVisitante





Originally posted by Nightshade55








     By the way thank you for the actual critique and not just flaming rampantly. Be careful about talking about what was and wasn't in the closed beta. Closed beta's are always under NDA. Its unlikely that they will track you but if they do its actually a pretty hefty fine and some jail-time depending on what you said. Not threatening just relating what one of my buddies has experienced (broke the NDA for Diablo 3 resently in one of their closed betas).




     Moving on though I can't say what was in the closed beta, I wasn't in it. Even if I was I still couldn't say due to NDA. However, there may be something there for you to check out in the future then. I'm not saying go out and pre-purchase now to see the next beta. Just keep an open mind. it sounds like there is a lot of stuff in there now that wasn't there. We are talking about beta flux after all. The game will be completely different than it is now upon release. Sometimes that's for worse but Anet has been truly listening to its beta testers so I doubt that'll be the case.




     Ok so If I understand correctly here is our common ground regarding DE's. The things you do aren't new as general game activities go. The way that you do them is. (Which I argue that nothing you do in any game is ever new. As I stated we've been doing these kill quests and such sense mario. Again, GoW is a giant kill quest. Skyrim, DA:O, and all games have the same quests and activities you do here. There literally is nothing else to do in a game that is interesting and fun that is not a variation of these archtypes). DE's are better than the old quest system.




     That last part I'm not sure is middle ground yet because you haven't actually said that. I can't imagine anyone preferring ol' quest log though. Then again, I can't imagine anyone experiencing the events I did to find them uninspired. Then, yet AGAIN, you may or may not have done the events I did.




     I never tried an elementalist so I can't comment on it. The ones I saw were dodging and rolling and it looked fine. I haven't played as one. Again though,  you participated in an extremely old build of the game it seems. Thus, you may want to reserve judgement.







 




The way you do quests isn't better, in my opinion. Instead of interacting with who I'm doing quests for, I just get slapped with the quest when I enter the area with no idea why I'm doing it. Convenient to be sure, but not very immersive. For almost all the heart quests and many of the dynamic events this is the case. Of course there are certain events like a town invasion that don't need explanation, but then afterwards you don't get any feedback from thankful npcs or anything. The mail letters after the fact simply don't involve you as much as actual speaking, yet they still function like quest text essentially. The reason I think GW2's quests are better than TERA's is because of the variety, not because of any revolutionary touted dynamism.




I do dodge and roll, but TERA has dodge and roll too and implemented in a much more meaningful way. Again, definitely not bad, just uninteresting.




 



Had you actually played to level 25, like you claim, you would have known that very often dynamic events lead to other dynamic events based on the outcome.


However, the major difference between dynamic events and quests is that quests are always static and dynamic events happen whether there are players present there or not.



 


And here we go with the accusations. Where in my post did I state or imply that I didn't know that? Now you're just making things up.


  Nightverge

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/12
Posts: 216

5/03/12 10:40:27 PM#332
Originally posted by ElVisitante

Originally posted by Nightshade55



     By the way thank you for the actual critique and not just flaming rampantly. Be careful about talking about what was and wasn't in the closed beta. Closed beta's are always under NDA. Its unlikely that they will track you but if they do its actually a pretty hefty fine and some jail-time depending on what you said. Not threatening just relating what one of my buddies has experienced (broke the NDA for Diablo 3 resently in one of their closed betas).


     Moving on though I can't say what was in the closed beta, I wasn't in it. Even if I was I still couldn't say due to NDA. However, there may be something there for you to check out in the future then. I'm not saying go out and pre-purchase now to see the next beta. Just keep an open mind. it sounds like there is a lot of stuff in there now that wasn't there. We are talking about beta flux after all. The game will be completely different than it is now upon release. Sometimes that's for worse but Anet has been truly listening to its beta testers so I doubt that'll be the case.


     Ok so If I understand correctly here is our common ground regarding DE's. The things you do aren't new as general game activities go. The way that you do them is. (Which I argue that nothing you do in any game is ever new. As I stated we've been doing these kill quests and such sense mario. Again, GoW is a giant kill quest. Skyrim, DA:O, and all games have the same quests and activities you do here. There literally is nothing else to do in a game that is interesting and fun that is not a variation of these archtypes). DE's are better than the old quest system.


     That last part I'm not sure is middle ground yet because you haven't actually said that. I can't imagine anyone preferring ol' quest log though. Then again, I can't imagine anyone experiencing the events I did to find them uninspired. Then, yet AGAIN, you may or may not have done the events I did.


     I never tried an elementalist so I can't comment on it. The ones I saw were dodging and rolling and it looked fine. I haven't played as one. Again though,  you participated in an extremely old build of the game it seems. Thus, you may want to reserve judgement.



 

The way you do quests isn't better, in my opinion. Instead of interacting with who I'm doing quests for, I just get slapped with the quest when I enter the area with no idea why I'm doing it. Convenient to be sure, but not very immersive. For almost all the heart quests and many of the dynamic events this is the case. Of course there are certain events like a town invasion that don't need explanation, but then afterwards you don't get any feedback from thankful npcs or anything. The mail letters after the fact simply don't involve you as much as actual speaking, yet they still function like quest text essentially. The reason I think GW2's quests are better than TERA's is because of the variety, not because of any revolutionary touted dynamism.


I do dodge and roll, but TERA has dodge and roll too and implemented in a much more meaningful way. Again, definitely not bad, just uninteresting.


 

     Did you know you can talk to the people if you want and get the same backstory presented to you? you are never just slapped with a quest/event. If you want to know more about what's going on you can talk to them. you just don't have to.

     Given that though this is probably as far as we'll get in our debate. I understand your opinion, I can't relate but I understand, and disagree. I feel the dodge and roll in Tera has no real risk/reward system in it. Its perpetual.

     The mail letters are nice but again, if you want you can run up to someone and talk to them and get a dialogue chain that you can answer that will give you the whole lowdown on what's going on. I read all of them. The best part about them here is they aren't walls of text. You are actually talking to the person to find out information. You click on what you want to say and intimidate or charm them or whatever. Its nice, versus the boring page of text with zero interaction.

     We do have an impass here though so I hope you find great enjoyment with Tera :). Hopefully I see you in GW2 eventually as well.

  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3491

5/03/12 10:43:02 PM#333

I have happily paid 15 a month for MMOing for 13 odd years. After playing GW2 for a weekend I find my self pondering... with the level of quality in GW2 how can I justify spending a monthly fee? I looked at their cash shop and there is no pay to win items. Even looked at GW1 cash shop and there is none there. With the amount of fun I had its gona be a while before I get board enough to want to pay 15 bucks a month. Tera maybe a little better in the combat area but other areas GW2 wind hands down. How does that justify spending 15 bucks a month?



 

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

5/03/12 10:46:18 PM#334
Originally posted by ElVisitante

Originally posted by heartless


Originally posted by ElVisitante





Originally posted by Nightshade55








     By the way thank you for the actual critique and not just flaming rampantly. Be careful about talking about what was and wasn't in the closed beta. Closed beta's are always under NDA. Its unlikely that they will track you but if they do its actually a pretty hefty fine and some jail-time depending on what you said. Not threatening just relating what one of my buddies has experienced (broke the NDA for Diablo 3 resently in one of their closed betas).




     Moving on though I can't say what was in the closed beta, I wasn't in it. Even if I was I still couldn't say due to NDA. However, there may be something there for you to check out in the future then. I'm not saying go out and pre-purchase now to see the next beta. Just keep an open mind. it sounds like there is a lot of stuff in there now that wasn't there. We are talking about beta flux after all. The game will be completely different than it is now upon release. Sometimes that's for worse but Anet has been truly listening to its beta testers so I doubt that'll be the case.




     Ok so If I understand correctly here is our common ground regarding DE's. The things you do aren't new as general game activities go. The way that you do them is. (Which I argue that nothing you do in any game is ever new. As I stated we've been doing these kill quests and such sense mario. Again, GoW is a giant kill quest. Skyrim, DA:O, and all games have the same quests and activities you do here. There literally is nothing else to do in a game that is interesting and fun that is not a variation of these archtypes). DE's are better than the old quest system.




     That last part I'm not sure is middle ground yet because you haven't actually said that. I can't imagine anyone preferring ol' quest log though. Then again, I can't imagine anyone experiencing the events I did to find them uninspired. Then, yet AGAIN, you may or may not have done the events I did.




     I never tried an elementalist so I can't comment on it. The ones I saw were dodging and rolling and it looked fine. I haven't played as one. Again though,  you participated in an extremely old build of the game it seems. Thus, you may want to reserve judgement.







 



The way you do quests isn't better, in my opinion. Instead of interacting with who I'm doing quests for, I just get slapped with the quest when I enter the area with no idea why I'm doing it. Convenient to be sure, but not very immersive. For almost all the heart quests and many of the dynamic events this is the case. Of course there are certain events like a town invasion that don't need explanation, but then afterwards you don't get any feedback from thankful npcs or anything. The mail letters after the fact simply don't involve you as much as actual speaking, yet they still function like quest text essentially. The reason I think GW2's quests are better than TERA's is because of the variety, not because of any revolutionary touted dynamism.




I do dodge and roll, but TERA has dodge and roll too and implemented in a much more meaningful way. Again, definitely not bad, just uninteresting.




 


Had you actually played to level 25, like you claim, you would have known that very often dynamic events lead to other dynamic events based on the outcome.


However, the major difference between dynamic events and quests is that quests are always static and dynamic events happen whether there are players present there or not.



 

And here we go with the accusations. Where in my post did I state or imply that I didn't know that? Now you're just making things up.

They are not accusations, they are observations based on your comments. I mean just reading your comments on GW2's combat is enough to see that you have very little time with the game, if any. Definitely not to level 25.

Unless you're specifically omitting certain things in order to make your point seem more valid.

  ElVisitante

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/12
Posts: 47

5/03/12 11:14:14 PM#335

Originally posted by heartless


Originally posted by ElVisitante





Originally posted by heartless







Originally posted by ElVisitante













Originally posted by Nightshade55


















     By the way thank you for the actual critique and not just flaming rampantly. Be careful about talking about what was and wasn't in the closed beta. Closed beta's are always under NDA. Its unlikely that they will track you but if they do its actually a pretty hefty fine and some jail-time depending on what you said. Not threatening just relating what one of my buddies has experienced (broke the NDA for Diablo 3 resently in one of their closed betas).








     Moving on though I can't say what was in the closed beta, I wasn't in it. Even if I was I still couldn't say due to NDA. However, there may be something there for you to check out in the future then. I'm not saying go out and pre-purchase now to see the next beta. Just keep an open mind. it sounds like there is a lot of stuff in there now that wasn't there. We are talking about beta flux after all. The game will be completely different than it is now upon release. Sometimes that's for worse but Anet has been truly listening to its beta testers so I doubt that'll be the case.








     Ok so If I understand correctly here is our common ground regarding DE's. The things you do aren't new as general game activities go. The way that you do them is. (Which I argue that nothing you do in any game is ever new. As I stated we've been doing these kill quests and such sense mario. Again, GoW is a giant kill quest. Skyrim, DA:O, and all games have the same quests and activities you do here. There literally is nothing else to do in a game that is interesting and fun that is not a variation of these archtypes). DE's are better than the old quest system.








     That last part I'm not sure is middle ground yet because you haven't actually said that. I can't imagine anyone preferring ol' quest log though. Then again, I can't imagine anyone experiencing the events I did to find them uninspired. Then, yet AGAIN, you may or may not have done the events I did.








     I never tried an elementalist so I can't comment on it. The ones I saw were dodging and rolling and it looked fine. I haven't played as one. Again though,  you participated in an extremely old build of the game it seems. Thus, you may want to reserve judgement.















 








The way you do quests isn't better, in my opinion. Instead of interacting with who I'm doing quests for, I just get slapped with the quest when I enter the area with no idea why I'm doing it. Convenient to be sure, but not very immersive. For almost all the heart quests and many of the dynamic events this is the case. Of course there are certain events like a town invasion that don't need explanation, but then afterwards you don't get any feedback from thankful npcs or anything. The mail letters after the fact simply don't involve you as much as actual speaking, yet they still function like quest text essentially. The reason I think GW2's quests are better than TERA's is because of the variety, not because of any revolutionary touted dynamism.








I do dodge and roll, but TERA has dodge and roll too and implemented in a much more meaningful way. Again, definitely not bad, just uninteresting.








 





Had you actually played to level 25, like you claim, you would have known that very often dynamic events lead to other dynamic events based on the outcome.




However, the major difference between dynamic events and quests is that quests are always static and dynamic events happen whether there are players present there or not.







 




And here we go with the accusations. Where in my post did I state or imply that I didn't know that? Now you're just making things up.



They are not accusations, they are observations based on your comments. I mean just reading your comments on GW2's combat is enough to see that you have very little time with the game, if any. Definitely not to level 25.


Unless you're specifically omitting certain things in order to make your point seem more valid.



 


I am just relating my experience. Believe it or don't. Although it seems like you are saying that just because I felt differently about the game than you, I must not have played the game.


  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4766

5/03/12 11:22:41 PM#336
Originally posted by ElVisitante

The way you do quests isn't better, in my opinion. Instead of interacting with who I'm doing quests for, I just get slapped with the quest when I enter the area with no idea why I'm doing it. Convenient to be sure, but not very immersive. For almost all the heart quests and many of the dynamic events this is the case. Of course there are certain events like a town invasion that don't need explanation, but then afterwards you don't get any feedback from thankful npcs or anything. The mail letters after the fact simply don't involve you as much as actual speaking, yet they still function like quest text essentially. The reason I think GW2's quests are better than TERA's is because of the variety, not because of any revolutionary touted dynamism.


I do dodge and roll, but TERA has dodge and roll too and implemented in a much more meaningful way. Again, definitely not bad, just uninteresting.

1) There are multiple different types of quests in GW2, and they are not the same. Sounds like you mainly focused on 1 type of quest, and then just assumed that everything was like that. Maybe it was 'to you', but the game really is meant to be explored, and doesn't do a lot to hand-hold you through that. It expects players to take the initiative on their own.

There are:

- Heart Quests. This is the most amount of handholding you are really going to get, as far as quests. You always know where they are, what lvl they are, who you're helping, and what stage of the event is going on. This mechanic is basically a means of easing players into the rest of the game / part of map completion.

- Personal Story: Personally not my favorite, but this is bascially the closest thing this game has to traditional quests. You constantly have a task, a marker showing you where to go, and a clear objective of 'do this or try again'. Again, a feature catered to the traditional MMO gamer.

- Dynamic Events: These are what the game is generally centered around. Some show up on the map, some don't. You don't know which of these are going on, unless you're nearby, and you don't know how serious the event is unless you're nearby. One time, it could be as simple as killing beasts. Next time, you may need to stop a huge demonic summoning ritual. While many of the ones most people saw had similarities, they are different, and they do vary. It's not limited to town/outpost raids & hearts. Not in the slightest.

- Meta Events: These are zone-wide events, that don't happen very often, and need a large group of players in order to successfully complete. In beta, some people witnessed this in the form of the shatterer.

- Exploration Quests: These are quests that you have to actually go and find. They are varied, they are hidden, and they are numerous. They could be anything small like 'giving the hunter some meat, so he can smoke it', in which case you can buy smoked meat off him for a time after completion, which is a consumable. There's also larger one's like tracking down someone's lost husband, who has been gone a long time. There are some that you don't know are quests, until you are actively doing them. For example, in the Norn area is a hidden jump-puzzle cave. You need to jump across platforms hanging over a pit of shadow demons. These paths are cluttered with animals that move (and knock you off if you touch them), shamans that morph into creatures and attack you, all with a reward at the end for successfully completing it.

There's a lot to miss, and it sounds like those who didn't bother looking missed the most by far.

2) I'm not sure how being able to spam dodge makes it seem more significant to you, but to each his own, I guess. Personally, I like that you have to use your dodges wisely. They are far from useless, and have saved my arse many times. Furthermore, you can buff your characters to dodge more if you feel you need it. In TERA, I never had trouble dodging, and I'm not even sure it's worth going into the other methods, as they are laughably easy to use. Basically, most fights (even in PvE), amounted to 'big telegraphed attack inbound', use my dodge and I was basically immune to damage for a good 1.5-2seconds. Then retaliate, or dodge again. It felt like a crutch, instead of a significant part of combat 'oh, can't handle this next part, well you're dodge is always there for you'. In GW2 I felt I needed to actually plan my dodges out a lot more (and save them) for times when it really was necessary. Furthermore, I also had to use my other skills to make up for not having dodge available. Made things a lot more challenging, tbh.

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

5/03/12 11:39:57 PM#337
Originally posted by ElVisitante

I am just relating my experience. Believe it or don't. Although it seems like you are saying that just because I felt differently about the game than you, I must not have played the game.

It's not about feeling differently it's about being believable. It's simply impossible to get to level 25 and not be aware of certain features.

  Novusod

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/30/09
Posts: 872

5/03/12 11:40:09 PM#338

Both games are Terrible bad pun intentional for two bad games. They are both linear themeparks on rails with comabat that is entirely beholden to the holy trinity. They advertize next generation combat yet if feels remarkable like playing WoW with dodging. Been there done and gets old after about 15 minutes. If you want real next generation action combat then look at the way Vindictus did it. NO HEALER class at all and a limited tank that doesn't do much in terms of tanking. Making a game based arround the holy trinity and calling it next generation or action combat is a joke.

 

Both TERA and Guild Wars 2 have no end game to speak of. There is nothing to do after you beat all the content except PvP. TERA especially failed to produce any large scale PvE content or raids. When the largest group content is 5 man instances that hardly feels like MMO anymore. These are both throw away MMOs designed to rack up large box sales and nothing else.

  Akais

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/07
Posts: 268

5/03/12 11:51:17 PM#339

Originally posted by BadSpock


Originally posted by Lazarus71



Originally posted by BadSpock




An honest reply and one I have heard before. I actually really like the idea of BAM's and group based leveling up and all that, I really enjoy challenging group content especially in the open world, but I just don't see the cost of the game + subscription being justified by what I have seen in TERA thus far.



 Fair enough Spock, to each thier own. I had the money so I went ahead and bought Tera and for now I have no problem paying the 15 a month to play the game. When GW2 drops I will most definately be buying the game and then who knows Tera might go the way of the dinosaurs for me personally. Only time will tell.



Part of me wants to buy TERA anyway and hope I get enough enjoyment out of it to last until GW2 is released, but I'm trying to be "good" and not "waste" money on yet another MMO that will fade to my uninstall shelf after a few weeks/month.



 




I rather felt the same way Bad Spock, I bought SWTOR and had fun for a bit but burned out not long after. I had planned to avoid Tera as I understood it to not be doing so well in Korea... I am glad I caved and bought it though as it's a blast to play.


I've no doubt that GW2 will be a fun game and a safe investment for me as the gameplay looks incredible.


Both games appear to have managed to be dynamically engaging and are aimed at slightly different markets. Comparing them seems like comparing EQ to AC back in their hey-day.


Both are good, but in different ways.


 


At the end of the day, I feel that the largest single determiner for the success of a game will rest on the quality of the community in it.  I can see both building strong stable communities that will keep folks logging in for a long time to come.


  binary_0011

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/04
Posts: 539

Use your common sense.

5/03/12 11:57:15 PM#340

omg, 330 replies, who actualy read all the replies?


binary0011 Xfire Miniprofile
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