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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Combat: TERA v. GW2. Your thoughts?

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349 posts found
  Jayaris

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 340

Hi

5/03/12 5:15:18 PM#181
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris

We'll be the ones saying that when you inflate active account numbers ;DDDDDDDDDDD

Since you mention inflating account numbers......

Tera(released) 11 servers edit - over half are low pop

GW2(beta) 48 servers and had to turn people away because of maxed server capacities.

 

Hmmm.....

 

Spin that

 

 

*crickets*

Truthfully I didn't know the amount of servers in the BETA, that is quite impressive. You've failed to include the EU and NA servers so TERA is closer to half than the quarter your information represents.

As I say I'm not saying that TERA will be more successful than Guild Wars 2, it definitely won't be. I was more making fun, than making a serious prediction that GW2 will experience massive drop-offs.

Hi

  Saxx0n

PR/Brand Manager BitBox Ltd.

Joined: 10/15/10
Posts: 830

5/03/12 5:21:33 PM#182
Originally posted by Jayaris
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris

We'll be the ones saying that when you inflate active account numbers ;DDDDDDDDDDD

Since you mention inflating account numbers......

Tera(released) 11 servers edit - over half are low pop

GW2(beta) 48 servers and had to turn people away because of maxed server capacities.

 

Hmmm.....

 

Spin that

 

 

*crickets*

Truthfully I didn't know the amount of servers in the BETA, that is quite impressive. You've failed to include the EU and NA servers so TERA is closer to half than the quarter your information represents.

As I say I'm not saying that TERA will be more successful than Guild Wars 2, it definitely won't be. I was more making fun, than making a serious prediction that GW2 will experience massive drop-offs.

Actually it will have zero drop offs since it has no sub.

 

You made a fair point about Euro servers I left that out. You could include the Korean servers too and I don't think Tera would have 48 much less at max capacity.

  LordArthas

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/04
Posts: 32

5/03/12 5:26:23 PM#183
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris

We'll be the ones saying that when you inflate active account numbers ;DDDDDDDDDDD

Since you mention inflating account numbers......

Tera(released) 11 servers edit - over half are low pop

GW2(beta) 48 servers and had to turn people away because of maxed server capacities.

 

Hmmm.....

 

Spin that

 

 

*crickets*

Truthfully I didn't know the amount of servers in the BETA, that is quite impressive. You've failed to include the EU and NA servers so TERA is closer to half than the quarter your information represents.

As I say I'm not saying that TERA will be more successful than Guild Wars 2, it definitely won't be. I was more making fun, than making a serious prediction that GW2 will experience massive drop-offs.

Actually it will have zero drop offs since it has no sub.

Ummm.....I'm a fan of GW2 and find that comment silly. Dropoffs don't mean subs, it means active playerbase. GW2 may very well see good dropoffs after people hit max because they are used to the neverending carrot on the stick approach. Once they gear their character they might quit because they can't keep gearing up.

  Jayaris

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 340

Hi

5/03/12 5:26:30 PM#184
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris

We'll be the ones saying that when you inflate active account numbers ;DDDDDDDDDDD

Since you mention inflating account numbers......

Tera(released) 11 servers edit - over half are low pop

GW2(beta) 48 servers and had to turn people away because of maxed server capacities.

 

Hmmm.....

 

Spin that

 

 

*crickets*

Truthfully I didn't know the amount of servers in the BETA, that is quite impressive. You've failed to include the EU and NA servers so TERA is closer to half than the quarter your information represents.

As I say I'm not saying that TERA will be more successful than Guild Wars 2, it definitely won't be. I was more making fun, than making a serious prediction that GW2 will experience massive drop-offs.

Actually it will have zero drop offs since it has no sub.

I find it sad that you're so defensive about your game that you jump on wording technicalities.

Hi

  Saxx0n

PR/Brand Manager BitBox Ltd.

Joined: 10/15/10
Posts: 830

5/03/12 5:30:58 PM#185
Originally posted by LordArthas
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris

We'll be the ones saying that when you inflate active account numbers ;DDDDDDDDDDD

Since you mention inflating account numbers......

Tera(released) 11 servers edit - over half are low pop

GW2(beta) 48 servers and had to turn people away because of maxed server capacities.

 

Hmmm.....

 

Spin that

 

 

*crickets*

Truthfully I didn't know the amount of servers in the BETA, that is quite impressive. You've failed to include the EU and NA servers so TERA is closer to half than the quarter your information represents.

As I say I'm not saying that TERA will be more successful than Guild Wars 2, it definitely won't be. I was more making fun, than making a serious prediction that GW2 will experience massive drop-offs.

Actually it will have zero drop offs since it has no sub.

Ummm.....I'm a fan of GW2 and find that comment silly. Dropoffs don't mean subs, it means active playerbase. GW2 may very well see good dropoffs after people hit max because they are used to the neverending carrot on the stick approach. Once they gear their character they might quit because they can't keep gearing up.

Since GW2 has no carrot on a stick or gear grind I believe those people did poor research prior to spending their money.

 

Restarting GW2 if you get bored of it is as easy as starting the client and pushing the play button.

 

And to somewhat stay on topic the combat and WvW/competitive PVP is the endgame not gear grind.

  Jayaris

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 340

Hi

5/03/12 5:37:30 PM#186
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by LordArthas
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris

We'll be the ones saying that when you inflate active account numbers ;DDDDDDDDDDD

Since you mention inflating account numbers......

Tera(released) 11 servers edit - over half are low pop

GW2(beta) 48 servers and had to turn people away because of maxed server capacities.

 

Hmmm.....

 

Spin that

 

 

*crickets*

Truthfully I didn't know the amount of servers in the BETA, that is quite impressive. You've failed to include the EU and NA servers so TERA is closer to half than the quarter your information represents.

As I say I'm not saying that TERA will be more successful than Guild Wars 2, it definitely won't be. I was more making fun, than making a serious prediction that GW2 will experience massive drop-offs.

Actually it will have zero drop offs since it has no sub.

Ummm.....I'm a fan of GW2 and find that comment silly. Dropoffs don't mean subs, it means active playerbase. GW2 may very well see good dropoffs after people hit max because they are used to the neverending carrot on the stick approach. Once they gear their character they might quit because they can't keep gearing up.

Since GW2 has no carrot on a stick or gear grind I believe those people did poor research prior to spending their money.

 

Restarting GW2 if you get bored of it is as easy as starting the client and pushing the play button.

 

And to somewhat stay on topic the combat and WvW/competitive PVP is the endgame not gear grind.

Genuine question, because though I hate GW2 fanboys with a passion I'm indifferent to the game itself. What is the point of WvWvW/Instanced PvP in the long run? 

Gear Rewards? Titles? Leaderboards?

I get that PvP is fun, but even though I enjoyed it in WAR conquering keeps/regions eventually got old.

Hi

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

5/03/12 5:53:58 PM#187
Originally posted by nttajira

battle in tera are far better that in guild war 2 , what you guy smoke ?im not saying the game better that gw2 , but the battle system and the action in tera battle are far more fast and dynamic ( get past lvl 20-30 plz before judge tera battle )  .played both game and gw2 only a tab target game ,like wow   honestly i know you guy are big big big gw2 fanboy but that just stupid now .

give some credit to other game and stop to be blind . but honestly im sure gw2 will be the better game in the end

but from the topic title , tera win easy for the combat system .

Well, a good many people don't share your opinion. I like GW2 fast, actiony combat, the constant moving and positioning, the self-healing and self-reliance combined with the ability to support your allies, the fact that all characters can have a nice balance of damage, control and support, the need to be situationally aware in combat, etc. Tab-targetting in GW2 is perfectly fine... hell, some skills (mesmer clones and phantasms) require a specific target since they'll only attack the one you target them on and will shatter when that target dies.

 

Here's how I think of it... if health and damage were balanced, a GW2 character would likely defeat a Tera character with relative ease. Their attacks would be ridiculously easy to avoid or interrupt, they're imbalanced, being stuck in the archaic trinity style...

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

5/03/12 5:56:38 PM#188
Originally posted by Jayaris
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by LordArthas
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris

We'll be the ones saying that when you inflate active account numbers ;DDDDDDDDDDD

Since you mention inflating account numbers......

Tera(released) 11 servers edit - over half are low pop

GW2(beta) 48 servers and had to turn people away because of maxed server capacities.

 

Hmmm.....

 

Spin that

 

 

*crickets*

Truthfully I didn't know the amount of servers in the BETA, that is quite impressive. You've failed to include the EU and NA servers so TERA is closer to half than the quarter your information represents.

As I say I'm not saying that TERA will be more successful than Guild Wars 2, it definitely won't be. I was more making fun, than making a serious prediction that GW2 will experience massive drop-offs.

Actually it will have zero drop offs since it has no sub.

Ummm.....I'm a fan of GW2 and find that comment silly. Dropoffs don't mean subs, it means active playerbase. GW2 may very well see good dropoffs after people hit max because they are used to the neverending carrot on the stick approach. Once they gear their character they might quit because they can't keep gearing up.

Since GW2 has no carrot on a stick or gear grind I believe those people did poor research prior to spending their money.

 

Restarting GW2 if you get bored of it is as easy as starting the client and pushing the play button.

 

And to somewhat stay on topic the combat and WvW/competitive PVP is the endgame not gear grind.

Genuine question, because though I hate GW2 fanboys with a passion I'm indifferent to the game itself. What is the point of WvWvW/Instanced PvP in the long run? 

Gear Rewards? Titles? Leaderboards?

I get that PvP is fun, but even though I enjoyed it in WAR conquering keeps/regions eventually got old.

For one thing, the winners of each WvW cycle get buffs for your server's PvE area that may give extra magic find, extra damage, etc. So basically you're fighting for your whole world. Another is the exclusively PvP gear available (no PvP stats, unique skins) that can be earned. Plus it's simply insanely freakin' fun. It really is.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Nightverge

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/12
Posts: 216

5/03/12 6:50:54 PM#189
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Jayaris
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by LordArthas
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris

We'll be the ones saying that when you inflate active account numbers ;DDDDDDDDDDD

Since you mention inflating account numbers......

Tera(released) 11 servers edit - over half are low pop

GW2(beta) 48 servers and had to turn people away because of maxed server capacities.

 

Hmmm.....

 

Spin that

 

 

*crickets*

Truthfully I didn't know the amount of servers in the BETA, that is quite impressive. You've failed to include the EU and NA servers so TERA is closer to half than the quarter your information represents.

As I say I'm not saying that TERA will be more successful than Guild Wars 2, it definitely won't be. I was more making fun, than making a serious prediction that GW2 will experience massive drop-offs.

Actually it will have zero drop offs since it has no sub.

Ummm.....I'm a fan of GW2 and find that comment silly. Dropoffs don't mean subs, it means active playerbase. GW2 may very well see good dropoffs after people hit max because they are used to the neverending carrot on the stick approach. Once they gear their character they might quit because they can't keep gearing up.

Since GW2 has no carrot on a stick or gear grind I believe those people did poor research prior to spending their money.

 

Restarting GW2 if you get bored of it is as easy as starting the client and pushing the play button.

 

And to somewhat stay on topic the combat and WvW/competitive PVP is the endgame not gear grind.

Genuine question, because though I hate GW2 fanboys with a passion I'm indifferent to the game itself. What is the point of WvWvW/Instanced PvP in the long run? 

Gear Rewards? Titles? Leaderboards?

I get that PvP is fun, but even though I enjoyed it in WAR conquering keeps/regions eventually got old.

For one thing, the winners of each WvW cycle get buffs for your server's PvE area that may give extra magic find, extra damage, etc. So basically you're fighting for your whole world. Another is the exclusively PvP gear available (no PvP stats, unique skins) that can be earned. Plus it's simply insanely freakin' fun. It really is.

     If you mean tangable transferable rewards (which I think you do) you get experience, gold, and titles along with legacy items. You could literally jump in PvP at level 1 and play until you are level 80. The whole time you are in PvP you are buffed to 80 but you also get PvE experience that transfers over when you leave PvP. Same as gold and PvP items for WvWvW use only. Structured PvP is an E-sport scene that is completely seperate from the rest of the world of GW2. the only thing carried over there are character looks. Everyone has the same choices of loadouts though to keep things balanced. Nothing transfers in or out of structured PvP except MAYBE titles I believe.

  Zen_Blade

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/03
Posts: 105

"Use no way as way, no limitation as limitation."

-Bruce Lee

 
OP  5/03/12 7:04:25 PM#190
Originally posted by Saxx0n
Originally posted by Jayaris

We'll be the ones saying that when you inflate active account numbers ;DDDDDDDDDDD

Since you mention inflating account numbers......

Tera(released) 11 servers edit - over half are low pop

GW2(beta) 48 servers and had to turn people away because of maxed server capacities.

 

Hmmm.....

 

Spin that

 

 

*crickets*

To be fair, we have no clue how many people per server GW2 vs. TERA can each handle adequately.  In reality I'm sure GW2 had more people online though, I mean the hype alone for the game should tell you that.  What's your point however? And how does that apply to the topic of this thread, regarding comparison of their combat systems, not the games as a whole?

  KulEndSpycee

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/03/12
Posts: 30

5/03/12 7:35:55 PM#191

I tend to prefer the combat in TERA but that is more a matter of personal taste than anything else.

I think an interesting side example to note here is the Elder Scroll series and Bethesda games in general (maybe excluding Skryim). When playing in third person view your character often looks strange and floaty during combat, this is due to a disjoint between what we expect and what we see. In real life you cannot run side to side while swinging a large axe, neither can you peddle backwards while firing a bow. Our brains realize this and the movement of the characters falls into a type of uncanny valley for combat, this plagued the earlier bethesda games and in my opinion that is also why some players think Guild Wars 2 combat doesn't give a very weighty feel to it. When you can move while casting/attacking the top and bottom halves of your character are not in sync graphically and it creates strange twists and motions that bother some people subconsciously because their brains recognize that the human body does not move in that manner. That is why to me personally it feels weird in Guild Wars 2 when I am strafing in circles around someone while flailing my greatsword around.

A lot of people complain about animation lock in TERA, but that is a core part of balancing active gameplay. Name any God of War/Devil May Cry beat-em-up or fighting game that didn't have animation locks and I will show you an awful gameplay system. If you do not have animation locks you often get either A) Spammy combat or B) Unbalanced melee vs ranged tradeoffs, both of which I think are a little too prevalent in GW 2.

Now I actually enjoyed Guild Wars 2 combat, but the lack of any resource system or vulnerability period while using 90%+ of skills made it a very clusterf*** experience for me, especially in very populated zones or WvWvW pvp. Ironically, despite TERA being the one with crosshair aiming I found GW 2 to have more in common with FPS's. Without resource management and with the constant movement combat is more about mobility and using skills reactionary to the situation which is very reminiscent of an FPS like Unreal Tournament. TERA is more slow and deliberate as attacks have large windups, animation frames that cannot be interrupted, and focuses more on punishment similar to a fighting game like Soul Caliber. Which you prefer is once again up to personal taste, but once again I like TERA a bit more in this respect.

And of course lastly the animations have something to do with it. When you hit things in TERA they flinch, they get bowled over, you get a satisfying sound effect that changes according to your weapon/attack and blood sprays in every direction. WIth player collisions enabled stronger attacks can physically force your opponent backwards even if they block with their shield. In GW 2 your attacks often feel very insubstantial. If you hit someone with a flurry of attacks as a Mesmer often you have no real indication that you did anything besides some combat numbers popping up, better hit effects would give the combat a more meaty feel to it. I do feel like the weapon swapping in GW 2 is kind of gimmicky though, really all you are doing is adding a hotkey to access half your skillbar and sometimes putting a cooldown on it.

In the end I actually enjoyed the combat in both games, but TERA definitely has my vote for better combat system. Better questing system however....

  User Deleted
5/03/12 8:26:17 PM#192
Originally posted by KulEndSpycee

I tend to prefer the combat in TERA but that is more a matter of personal taste than anything else.

I think an interesting side example to note here is the Elder Scroll series and Bethesda games in general (maybe excluding Skryim). When playing in third person view your character often looks strange and floaty during combat, this is due to a disjoint between what we expect and what we see. In real life you cannot run side to side while swinging a large axe, neither can you peddle backwards while firing a bow. Our brains realize this and the movement of the characters falls into a type of uncanny valley for combat, this plagued the earlier bethesda games and in my opinion that is also why some players think Guild Wars 2 combat doesn't give a very weighty feel to it. When you can move while casting/attacking the top and bottom halves of your character are not in sync graphically and it creates strange twists and motions that bother some people subconsciously because their brains recognize that the human body does not move in that manner. That is why to me personally it feels weird in Guild Wars 2 when I am strafing in circles around someone while flailing my greatsword around.

A lot of people complain about animation lock in TERA, but that is a core part of balancing active gameplay. Name any God of War/Devil May Cry beat-em-up or fighting game that didn't have animation locks and I will show you an awful gameplay system. If you do not have animation locks you often get either A) Spammy combat or B) Unbalanced melee vs ranged tradeoffs, both of which I think are a little too prevalent in GW 2.

Now I actually enjoyed Guild Wars 2 combat, but the lack of any resource system or vulnerability period while using 90%+ of skills made it a very clusterf*** experience for me, especially in very populated zones or WvWvW pvp. Ironically, despite TERA being the one with crosshair aiming I found GW 2 to have more in common with FPS's. Without resource management and with the constant movement combat is more about mobility and using skills reactionary to the situation which is very reminiscent of an FPS like Unreal Tournament. TERA is more slow and deliberate as attacks have large windups, animation frames that cannot be interrupted, and focuses more on punishment similar to a fighting game like Soul Caliber. Which you prefer is once again up to personal taste, but once again I like TERA a bit more in this respect.

And of course lastly the animations have something to do with it. When you hit things in TERA they flinch, they get bowled over, you get a satisfying sound effect that changes according to your weapon/attack and blood sprays in every direction. WIth player collisions enabled stronger attacks can physically force your opponent backwards even if they block with their shield. In GW 2 your attacks often feel very insubstantial. If you hit someone with a flurry of attacks as a Mesmer often you have no real indication that you did anything besides some combat numbers popping up, better hit effects would give the combat a more meaty feel to it. I do feel like the weapon swapping in GW 2 is kind of gimmicky though, really all you are doing is adding a hotkey to access half your skillbar and sometimes putting a cooldown on it.

In the end I actually enjoyed the combat in both games, but TERA definitely has my vote for better combat system. Better questing system however....

Where did you come from? This is everything I've said in the past but better worded and even surprised me as I didn't think of it "uncanny valley but for combat". Brilliant.

Permission to use your post in the future?

I think only time will tell who was right in their choice of combat mechanics but I'm leaning strongly towards TERA. ArenaNet has their balancing work cut out for them. You mentioned combat being a clusterf*ck? That's exactly how I felt when it got to several players doing something together. Feedback is. just. not. there. And the times it is, it's very poor IMO.

I can't judge that right now, as that's something that only time will truly tell. Two, three months after launch or so? I did enjoy swapping weapons out and I honestly hope that all the weapons each class can use will be just as viable in almost every situation (more balancing, heh).

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1048

5/03/12 8:30:56 PM#193

Best part about the combat, I didn't ahve to kill 100 trees when doing it. 

The sum of the parts makes the game for me.  If God of War had crappy quests like TEra, I"d have hated every minute of it. 

Tera's the typical pig in makeup that we've seen a dozen times. It has one trick, the combat, still the same game.  

You can't call GW2 combat gimicky, considering the entire game diverges from your wow/mmo prototype. A gimick is a one trick pony, ala Tera. 

  KulEndSpycee

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/03/12
Posts: 30

5/03/12 8:52:04 PM#194
Originally posted by NBlitz

Where did you come from? This is everything I've said in the past but better worded and even surprised me as I didn't think of it "uncanny valley but for combat". Brilliant.

Permission to use your post in the future?

Feel free, I've checked this forum periodically for awhile now but never felt the need to make an account. With all the exciting MMO's coming out this year though I thought it might be a good time to do so. It's a shame that the GW 2 hype has forced it into  the role WoW used to dominate, the "this game is good but it's not going to be better than GW2" syndrome that makes playerbases extremely hostile and less likely to play multiple MMO's at one time.

MMO loyalty is fine and all since it can often promote community, but it gets kind of ridiculous when it is for a game that is not even released yet. For example this thread is comparing combat in TERA vs GW2, but with GW 2 not even being released for who knows how long who cares which is better. You can always just play TERA now and switch later, or just play both. 

As for the topic itself I would like to add that open world pvp in TERA works extremely well. The plethora of escape skills and hard CC + instant mounting means that if you try to grief someone that doesn't want to fight back it is easy for them to get away a good percentage of the time. The ratio of damage done to life pool for TERA's pvp combat is fairly balanced where the attacks that do heavy damage are easy to avoid so you never feel like you are gibbed with no chance to fight back (something I really hated in WoW).

GW 2 WvW was fun but almost all the time it was small zergs like GW 1 where some unfortunate souls where stomped over by superior numbers, and whoever tried to stay behind to defend got stampeded themselves a minute or two later. Since even friendly bodies have collisions in TERA (and can block projectiles), it is much harder for you to get treaded by 3-4 guys because they will actually get in each others way. I feel that the explosions and firey sparks are a bit overdone in GW 2 as well, making it hard to differentiate skills and what is happening on higher settings. However you could say the same for the combat numbers in TERA as well depending on how far zoomed in you play on your character.

  Nightverge

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/12
Posts: 216

5/03/12 8:58:00 PM#195
Originally posted by KulEndSpycee

I tend to prefer the combat in TERA but that is more a matter of personal taste than anything else.

I think an interesting side example to note here is the Elder Scroll series and Bethesda games in general (maybe excluding Skryim). When playing in third person view your character often looks strange and floaty during combat, this is due to a disjoint between what we expect and what we see. In real life you cannot run side to side while swinging a large axe, neither can you peddle backwards while firing a bow. Our brains realize this and the movement of the characters falls into a type of uncanny valley for combat, this plagued the earlier bethesda games and in my opinion that is also why some players think Guild Wars 2 combat doesn't give a very weighty feel to it. When you can move while casting/attacking the top and bottom halves of your character are not in sync graphically and it creates strange twists and motions that bother some people subconsciously because their brains recognize that the human body does not move in that manner. That is why to me personally it feels weird in Guild Wars 2 when I am strafing in circles around someone while flailing my greatsword around.

A lot of people complain about animation lock in TERA, but that is a core part of balancing active gameplay. Name any God of War/Devil May Cry beat-em-up or fighting game that didn't have animation locks and I will show you an awful gameplay system. If you do not have animation locks you often get either A) Spammy combat or B) Unbalanced melee vs ranged tradeoffs, both of which I think are a little too prevalent in GW 2.

Now I actually enjoyed Guild Wars 2 combat, but the lack of any resource system or vulnerability period while using 90%+ of skills made it a very clusterf*** experience for me, especially in very populated zones or WvWvW pvp. Ironically, despite TERA being the one with crosshair aiming I found GW 2 to have more in common with FPS's. Without resource management and with the constant movement combat is more about mobility and using skills reactionary to the situation which is very reminiscent of an FPS like Unreal Tournament. TERA is more slow and deliberate as attacks have large windups, animation frames that cannot be interrupted, and focuses more on punishment similar to a fighting game like Soul Caliber. Which you prefer is once again up to personal taste, but once again I like TERA a bit more in this respect.

And of course lastly the animations have something to do with it. When you hit things in TERA they flinch, they get bowled over, you get a satisfying sound effect that changes according to your weapon/attack and blood sprays in every direction. WIth player collisions enabled stronger attacks can physically force your opponent backwards even if they block with their shield. In GW 2 your attacks often feel very insubstantial. If you hit someone with a flurry of attacks as a Mesmer often you have no real indication that you did anything besides some combat numbers popping up, better hit effects would give the combat a more meaty feel to it. I do feel like the weapon swapping in GW 2 is kind of gimmicky though, really all you are doing is adding a hotkey to access half your skillbar and sometimes putting a cooldown on it.

In the end I actually enjoyed the combat in both games, but TERA definitely has my vote for better combat system. Better questing system however....

     You are one of the few critics I feel I can talk to. We both have our different opinions on these games so it is obvious we will not change each others minds. I've played Tera, you've played GW2 (I hope, else we have nothing to talk about until you have). I never really got the "floaty" feeling in GW2. Attacks do make the characters recoil and even knock them on their ass. They can't have animations interrupting attacks though less you get Tera. I mean that in no disrespect but I feel that the animation lock was the single worst move they made.

     There are animation locks in other action games but you can't tell me you see no difference between GoW combat and Tera combat.  And actually GoW and devil may cry have zero permanent animations. 90% of them can be interrupted with a block or a dodge. Moving on though I feel the hit animations aren't over the top because it kills the flow of combat. They have to still be able to hit you back. If every move animation locked the enemy things would be far too easy. No matter how much damage they could do just cycle hit's and keep them locked.

     This was a big problem in Monster hunter and follows through in Tera. In MH a coordinated party could keep a rathalos (one of the games premier wyverns) literally locked in place by just repeating certain attacks. I've seen it done in Tera as well. In fact, I did it in Tera. You can animation lock BAM's by cycling moves and syncing them with others in your party.

     Moving on to resource systems. Every class has one. Not sure how you missed that. Every class's abilities use a resource system. So...yeah.

     Every skill has a vulnerability period. Not sure how you missed that either. Most skills have a wind-up which varies depending on the skill. Every skill also has an associated animation that goes along with it. You have animation lock in GW2 it just doesn't lock you standing still MOST OF THE TIME. For example if I, as a thief, use the flying lotus dual dagger skill. I am locked flying forward while spinning my blades. Can't move any other direction. In essence the whole move is a lock.

     Again it just doesn't lock you standing still most of the time. The only game that has any weight to blows is probably dead island. It can only get away with that because zombies are everywhere so it doesn't matter if you lock one. Do you know how many times I've punched a centaur in GoW with a cestus fist just to have it stand still? The only thing that happens is you have a weighted hit screen to impart impact. Happens all the time in DMC too. The only enemies that really feel impact are smaller minions. Even they sometimes are immune to scaled hit animations.

     So I disagree with you there. I didn't feel floaty  nor did I see anything that defies the human body. Also swinging a greatsword running looks wierd to us because we don't live in the middle ages. Nobody uses a greatsword.

     Do you think that in the crusades they seriously came to a complete halt to wind up and strike someone with a greatsword? In history longswordsman were shock troopers and charged into battle first. yes, they charged in, with huge swords. Swinging AND running. None of them came to a halt in front of the front lines to swing. They charged through the lines swinging and running.

     Just as archers moved and fired. If anything the combat is more realistic. Real warfare with spears and swords did not take place standing still jabbing your weapons at each other. Everyone was constantly moving unless they were part of a phalanx or something.

    

  Nightverge

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/12
Posts: 216

5/03/12 9:01:28 PM#196
Originally posted by KulEndSpycee
Originally posted by NBlitz

Where did you come from? This is everything I've said in the past but better worded and even surprised me as I didn't think of it "uncanny valley but for combat". Brilliant.

Permission to use your post in the future?

Feel free, I've checked this forum periodically for awhile now but never felt the need to make an account. With all the exciting MMO's coming out this year though I thought it might be a good time to do so. It's a shame that the GW 2 hype has forced it into  the role WoW used to dominate, the "this game is good but it's not going to be better than GW2" syndrome that makes playerbases extremely hostile and less likely to play multiple MMO's at one time.

MMO loyalty is fine and all since it can often promote community, but it gets kind of ridiculous when it is for a game that is not even released yet. For example this thread is comparing combat in TERA vs GW2, but with GW 2 not even being released for who knows how long who cares which is better. You can always just play TERA now and switch later, or just play both. 

As for the topic itself I would like to add that open world pvp in TERA works extremely well. The plethora of escape skills and hard CC + instant mounting means that if you try to grief someone that doesn't want to fight back it is easy for them to get away a good percentage of the time. The ratio of damage done to life pool for TERA's pvp combat is fairly balanced where the attacks that do heavy damage are easy to avoid so you never feel like you are gibbed with no chance to fight back (something I really hated in WoW).

GW 2 WvW was fun but almost all the time it was small zergs like GW 1 where some unfortunate souls where stomped over by superior numbers, and whoever tried to stay behind to defend got stampeded themselves a minute or two later. Since even friendly bodies have collisions in TERA (and can block projectiles), it is much harder for you to get treaded by 3-4 guys because they will actually get in each others way. I feel that the explosions and firey sparks are a bit overdone in GW 2 as well, making it hard to differentiate skills and what is happening on higher settings. However you could say the same for the combat numbers in TERA as well depending on how far zoomed in you play on your character.

     I'd also like to address the zerging. Which doesn't happen. True players are in big numbers but they always seperate into smaller skirmishes. There is no zerging out single players. Here, watch this. http://www.talesoftyria.com/. its a podcast of GW2 and in the beginning shows some WvWvW.

     I'm not sure if you played it and I won't sit here and tell you your wrong in your personal experience if you have. That video shows my experience with WvWvW. Players attack together then quickly disperse as they battle in their own pockets of 2v2 or whatever. Not once were there more than 3 people targeting me at once. Which I don't consider being zerged.

     I could walk into these huge clouds of players and not be one shot. I'd get picked out by an enemy in the crowed and we'd battle. Everyone else battling their oponents completely oblivious to me and this man.

  LordArthas

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/04
Posts: 32

5/03/12 9:41:11 PM#197
Originally posted by Jayaris

Genuine question, because though I hate GW2 fanboys with a passion I'm indifferent to the game itself. What is the point of WvWvW/Instanced PvP in the long run? 

Gear Rewards? Titles? Leaderboards?

I get that PvP is fun, but even though I enjoyed it in WAR conquering keeps/regions eventually got old.

Titles, better looking gear, achievements, story, fun, pvp

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6175

5/03/12 9:46:47 PM#198

I think the fact that GW2 basically always and continuously presents you with a challenge no matter where you go + that its more based mobility in general makes it overall more enjoyable.

 

Even if Tera had a better system in the abstract (which I don't think it does) combat is a a two sided game your character is only one side of it.

  KulEndSpycee

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/03/12
Posts: 30

5/03/12 10:02:30 PM#199
Originally posted by Nightshade55
     You are one of the few critics I feel I can talk to. We both have our different opinions on these games so it is obvious we will not change each others minds. I've played Tera, you've played GW2 (I hope, else we have nothing to talk about until you have). I never really got the "floaty" feeling in GW2. Attacks do make the characters recoil and even knock them on their ass. They can't have animations interrupting attacks though less you get Tera. I mean that in no disrespect but I feel that the animation lock was the single worst move they made.

     There are animation locks in other action games but you can't tell me you see no difference between GoW combat and Tera combat.  And actually GoW and devil may cry have zero permanent animations. 90% of them can be interrupted with a block or a dodge. Moving on though I feel the hit animations aren't over the top because it kills the flow of combat. They have to still be able to hit you back. If every move animation locked the enemy things would be far too easy. No matter how much damage they could do just cycle hit's and keep them locked.

     This was a big problem in Monster hunter and follows through in Tera. In MH a coordinated party could keep a rathalos (one of the games premier wyverns) literally locked in place by just repeating certain attacks. I've seen it done in Tera as well. In fact, I did it in Tera. You can animation lock BAM's by cycling moves and syncing them with others in your party.

     Moving on to resource systems. Every class has one. Not sure how you missed that. Every class's abilities use a resource system. So...yeah.

     Every skill has a vulnerability period. Not sure how you missed that either. Most skills have a wind-up which varies depending on the skill. Every skill also has an associated animation that goes along with it. You have animation lock in GW2 it just doesn't lock you standing still MOST OF THE TIME. For example if I, as a thief, use the flying lotus dual dagger skill. I am locked flying forward while spinning my blades. Can't move any other direction. In essence the whole move is a lock.

     Again it just doesn't lock you standing still most of the time. The only game that has any weight to blows is probably dead island. It can only get away with that because zombies are everywhere so it doesn't matter if you lock one. Do you know how many times I've punched a centaur in GoW with a cestus fist just to have it stand still? The only thing that happens is you have a weighted hit screen to impart impact. Happens all the time in DMC too. The only enemies that really feel impact are smaller minions. Even they sometimes are immune to scaled hit animations.

     So I disagree with you there. I didn't feel floaty  nor did I see anything that defies the human body. Also swinging a greatsword running looks wierd to us because we don't live in the middle ages. Nobody uses a greatsword.

     Do you think that in the crusades they seriously came to a complete halt to wind up and strike someone with a greatsword? In history longswordsman were shock troopers and charged into battle first. yes, they charged in, with huge swords. Swinging AND running. None of them came to a halt in front of the front lines to swing. They charged through the lines swinging and running.

     Just as archers moved and fired. If anything the combat is more realistic. Real warfare with spears and swords did not take place standing still jabbing your weapons at each other. Everyone was constantly moving unless they were part of a phalanx or something.

    

Well, to address your points (and I did play quite a bit over BWE although I never got anyone above early twenties since I tried a lot of classes):

- For the example with longswordsman, archers, and such. In a real charge there would be factors like momentum, fatigue, swing directions effecting impact, etc. Obviously I don't expect all that in a game because it would be way to hard to implement for the most part, but the lack of it really is what makes the difference. If someone charged forward with a greatsword and does a big homerun swing at the end that looks right, if I run literally in circles around someone while my giant sword waves back and forth like a toothpick independent of my legs that is when it strikes me as weird. However if you are used to that kind of animation it probably would not bother you as much. The feel of meaty blos is also more of a presentation thing, as you feel like you are hitting something with the blood sprays and sparks as you make contact.  It's more an aesthetics thing in this case where personal preference will decide it.

- As for WvW my experience was much different than yours. Having played TONS of GW1 this was a lot like AB, fun but kind of zergy. Most of the time the fights would be 5 vs 2 or 6 vs 3 or somesuch as small packs would overrun points defended by only a handful of players. However as tactics mature in the game this could easily change.  But this could have just been my experience with the game and you could easily have had a different one. (However it is interesting to note that Arenanet has historically been very rocky with balance, since GW1 was very very Fotm and nerfs where almost always devastating hammers).

- As for the MH comparison this is simply not true in TERA as stronger bosses all have hefty CC immunity. The GoW one is more apt since very few skills in TERA can cancel cast, but this is probably because TERA is an MMO and GoW is not (cancel casting would be very hard to balance for in pvp in a non-fighting game). In GW2 some skills do have animations that lock you into a certain movement or direction, but in Tera almost everything does.  The more important distinction to note is that movement is the most IMPORTANT type of animation locking, since the ability to move while performing an action has historically been the hardest thing to balance in games. WoW had to add dead zones to hunters because they could move while firing, anything that can move while firing/casting is usually extremely OP in MOBA's, etc.  If your ranged classes are not locked into standing still animations while casting or firing you will have to compensate with melee slows and gap closers and that can quickly become a slippery slope when it comes to pvp. Sure you can argue that every class has a ranged option as well but that just means you are fighting fire with fire because melee can't cut it. They have a long time to balance this though so it could easily turn out OK.

- It seemed rather chaotic actually due to how much skills where being spammed (especially in pve content although this may have been because I was on a hella populated server) not sure what you mean by a resource system though, the only one I really noticed was cooldowns which is not really a resource system by itself and more of a tiered global cooldown.

Right now I still stand by my opinion that TERA combat is better. However the caveat is that GW2 has a long development time still and could easily change my opinion by the time it releases.

  gestalt11

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/17/06
Posts: 6175

5/03/12 10:13:47 PM#200
Originally posted by NBlitz
Originally posted by KulEndSpycee

I tend to prefer the combat in TERA but that is more a matter of personal taste than anything else.

I think an interesting side example to note here is the Elder Scroll series and Bethesda games in general (maybe excluding Skryim). When playing in third person view your character often looks strange and floaty during combat, this is due to a disjoint between what we expect and what we see. In real life you cannot run side to side while swinging a large axe, neither can you peddle backwards while firing a bow. Our brains realize this and the movement of the characters falls into a type of uncanny valley for combat, this plagued the earlier bethesda games and in my opinion that is also why some players think Guild Wars 2 combat doesn't give a very weighty feel to it. When you can move while casting/attacking the top and bottom halves of your character are not in sync graphically and it creates strange twists and motions that bother some people subconsciously because their brains recognize that the human body does not move in that manner. That is why to me personally it feels weird in Guild Wars 2 when I am strafing in circles around someone while flailing my greatsword around.

A lot of people complain about animation lock in TERA, but that is a core part of balancing active gameplay. Name any God of War/Devil May Cry beat-em-up or fighting game that didn't have animation locks and I will show you an awful gameplay system. If you do not have animation locks you often get either A) Spammy combat or B) Unbalanced melee vs ranged tradeoffs, both of which I think are a little too prevalent in GW 2.

Now I actually enjoyed Guild Wars 2 combat, but the lack of any resource system or vulnerability period while using 90%+ of skills made it a very clusterf*** experience for me, especially in very populated zones or WvWvW pvp. Ironically, despite TERA being the one with crosshair aiming I found GW 2 to have more in common with FPS's. Without resource management and with the constant movement combat is more about mobility and using skills reactionary to the situation which is very reminiscent of an FPS like Unreal Tournament. TERA is more slow and deliberate as attacks have large windups, animation frames that cannot be interrupted, and focuses more on punishment similar to a fighting game like Soul Caliber. Which you prefer is once again up to personal taste, but once again I like TERA a bit more in this respect.

And of course lastly the animations have something to do with it. When you hit things in TERA they flinch, they get bowled over, you get a satisfying sound effect that changes according to your weapon/attack and blood sprays in every direction. WIth player collisions enabled stronger attacks can physically force your opponent backwards even if they block with their shield. In GW 2 your attacks often feel very insubstantial. If you hit someone with a flurry of attacks as a Mesmer often you have no real indication that you did anything besides some combat numbers popping up, better hit effects would give the combat a more meaty feel to it. I do feel like the weapon swapping in GW 2 is kind of gimmicky though, really all you are doing is adding a hotkey to access half your skillbar and sometimes putting a cooldown on it.

In the end I actually enjoyed the combat in both games, but TERA definitely has my vote for better combat system. Better questing system however....

Where did you come from? This is everything I've said in the past but better worded and even surprised me as I didn't think of it "uncanny valley but for combat". Brilliant.

Permission to use your post in the future?

I think only time will tell who was right in their choice of combat mechanics but I'm leaning strongly towards TERA. ArenaNet has their balancing work cut out for them. You mentioned combat being a clusterf*ck? That's exactly how I felt when it got to several players doing something together. Feedback is. just. not. there. And the times it is, it's very poor IMO.

I can't judge that right now, as that's something that only time will truly tell. Two, three months after launch or so? I did enjoy swapping weapons out and I honestly hope that all the weapons each class can use will be just as viable in almost every situation (more balancing, heh).

Actually you can move side to side while swinging an axe.

 

You just don't run.  Proper footwork allows you to move and attack.  Its allows you to advance and retreat linearly in any direction or in a circular motion.  A good fighter in only planted for power for a VERY brief moment.   

You can take it to the bank that anyone I spar with that "animation locked" would get his ass handed to him everytime.

 

The reason many games look weird is they can capture anything other than running.  Fighters don't run they use footwork and turns of the hip.  Games don't allow you to control your characters hips.  All fighting styles teach you that the hips are the key and foot work is essentialy.

 

The bow part is correct though.  You can fire a bow on the run but you will be wildly in accurate at Short range I believe a good archer can do it with the right bow but he'd have to aim for the body and not necessarily have a good idea where he would hit.

Now horse mounted archers can shoot accurately on the move but they have methods of establishing a dynamic stability on the horse.

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