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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » SWTOR Is A Win For Sandbox Players & MMOs

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101 posts found
  Azorith

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/04
Posts: 190

5/03/12 8:15:30 AM#21

MMOs in general have been dead to me for years. I try to get into them, and get bored in weeks. I can't bring myself to start new games, and can't enjoy my time in old games I've played before. Attacks and animations are the same boring crap for years, just dolled up with new colors.

I honestly think the only thing that can save the MMO genre is full virtual immersion. It's obvious game devs can't come up with anything new. So when the platform is changed, MMOs will change.

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  dubyahite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/11
Posts: 2506

5/03/12 8:16:00 AM#22
Ok so by all accounts the second most popular western mmo is a failure financially?

What does a game have to do to succeed? Triple wows numbers on launch day?

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  Sanguinelust

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 817

broken

5/03/12 8:22:15 AM#23

The problem with statements like the OP's are there is obvioulsy a much larger audience for the mainstream MMO's of today then there was a decade ago. How many themepark MMO's were there back then? I don't know if there were any, at least I can't think of one until WoW. With the ammount of people WoW dragged into this genre of gaming it is only a natural reaction of the gaming companies to want to copy Blizzards sucess.

There won't be a resurgence of sandbox titles until one comes out that is a big success. Companies aren't in this buisness to give you wnat you want. They are in the buisness to make money off of people. All sandboxers can do is wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. It's just the way things are today. I'm not a themepark fanboy nor am I a sandbox one either, I'm a fan of MMO's so I play what suits me and ignore the rest. It's the best we as a MMO community can do to feed our addictions.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

5/03/12 8:25:01 AM#24
Originally posted by Rasputin
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.

I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

Can you link to the data you are basing this on? Specifically, the fact that SWTOR is a "costly and spectacular failure" since your entire argument is based on that part in particular.

There are good indicators: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/thread/349680/Seems-like-the-game-has-peaked-on-XFire-Part-2.html

I'd been avoiding that thread because XFire threads around here usually get really weird. Will go check that out.

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  Azorith

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/04
Posts: 190

5/03/12 8:29:28 AM#25
Originally posted by dubyahite
Ok so by all accounts the second most popular western mmo is a failure financially?

What does a game have to do to succeed? Triple wows numbers on launch day?

the only thing swtor was successful at was using its NAME to con pre-orders out of the masses.

I was a collectors pre-order, from the first available week, and I didn't even play out my full free month. There are many others like me.

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  Professor78

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/05
Posts: 594

5/03/12 8:31:11 AM#26
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by MARTYB2K
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.

I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

Can you link to the data you are basing this on? Specifically, the fact that SWTOR is a "costly and spectacular failure" since your entire argument is based on that part in particular.

Sure, you ever heard of "The customer is always right". Well the public have spoken. The vast majority are negative:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/ratings (Look at all the talk of empty Planets)

Also: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/forum/893/General-Discussion.html (Unhappy people)

Finally, just look at the Offical Forums for lots more negativity. everyone isn't lying, not too mention it's probably going Free-2-Play soon. What else do you want?

 

So, bascially, you have no data of any kind and your entire argument is based on your personal assumption clouded by bias. Got it.  Thank you for clearing that up. 

You do see the humor in using forum posts to prove your point in a forum post that is a stellar example of how forum posts are not necessarily based on any level of fact or reality, right? 

There ya go, server populations not doing great.

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/eu/trends

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  Zhauric

Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/07
Posts: 294

5/03/12 8:35:25 AM#27
Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.

I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

Here's the problem with your statement...

Developers don't care about SWTOR's failure so it means absolutely little to them in regards to starting sandbox games. What they look for are the 'successful' MMO's. Just like with many things in life if someone sees another using a certain method that gains them success they tend to try to immulate that direction for themselves to gain that success. If they try to learn anything from SWTOR's difficulties (as I won't call it a failure with the amount of subs it has) it will be the innovate their direction more like GW2 or TSW is doing. It won't be 'Let's chunk the whole theme park idea altogether and go completely against the main stream!'

For AAA companies that is too much of a risk and gamble. They can't go to their boards and executivies pitching an idea that has not shown an inkling of success other than a niche market and say 'Hey! Give me your money for me to try this completely revolutionizing idea even if we have no data to back it up!' Business doesn't work like that. Smaller or indie companies can take that type of gamble but for AAA's it's a heavy risk that most won't come toward with a ten foot pole.

So no, SWTOR's failures does nothing for sandboxers but it may do something for innovation toward the themepark direction.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7497

5/03/12 8:38:03 AM#28


Originally posted by Professor78

There ya go, server populations not doing great.
http://www.torstatus.net/shards/eu/trends

It does not? Seems fairly stable.

  warmaster670

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/08
Posts: 1441

5/03/12 8:43:49 AM#29
whether or not ToR fails, sandboxes are still niche, and most people dont care about them, so if you call people not caring about it winning then ya sure, snadboxers win.

Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4849

5/03/12 8:47:52 AM#30
Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

Not sure what this has to do w/ sandboxers, but I'm all for more innovative / interesting games. So far I'm really enjoying GW2. While I've played sandboxes in the past that I really enjoyed, I feel like they tend to have more problems than they solve. For one I hate dealing w/ gankers & griefers. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I tend to always bump into them, and it's always very annoying.

That said, GW2 kinda puts itself somewhere inbetween the standard themepark & sandbox. It's not completely open, but it has a lot of freedom, in a balanced sort of way.

However, if what you're looking for is an actual sandbox, Archage is looking to be a pretty decent one from what I've heard.

  JoeyMMO

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1334

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

5/03/12 8:56:23 AM#31
Originally posted by MARTYB2K
Originally posted by Tranquilliti
Are you trolling? This is absolutely the worst possible game for sandbox players. It takes everything sandbox players hate and makes them even worse. This is the most mainstream game ever made with one of the biggest pay to win cash shop's in any western MMO. 

Go back and re-read my post. Not just the Title.

 Well, the title is a bit misleading. SWTOR is a win for sandbox players and MMO's. The other side (themepark) losing doesn't necessarily mean a win for the Sandbox or even MMO's in general. When MMO = big risk, stay away, then all MMO's could lose if TOR fails as badly as you claim.

  MARTYB2K

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/05
Posts: 170

 
OP  5/03/12 8:58:58 AM#32
The thing everyone needs to be aware is. Check the SWTOR figures after GW2 comes out. Many people are just using it has a place to hang out and have no home, or are tied in for 3-6 months. Lets face it. if you are burned out on WOW, after LOTRO they are not a lot of alternatives... until now (Tera, GW2). SWTOR's figures will be half in 3 months.
  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1049

5/03/12 9:01:35 AM#33
Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.

I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

I think SWTOR will ruin the chance of a game company spending this much money on a AAA MMO again.  I think they've found their cost ceiling for the genre. 

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

5/03/12 9:03:56 AM#34
Originally posted by Professor78
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by MARTYB2K
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.

I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

Can you link to the data you are basing this on? Specifically, the fact that SWTOR is a "costly and spectacular failure" since your entire argument is based on that part in particular.

Sure, you ever heard of "The customer is always right". Well the public have spoken. The vast majority are negative:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/ratings (Look at all the talk of empty Planets)

Also: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/forum/893/General-Discussion.html (Unhappy people)

Finally, just look at the Offical Forums for lots more negativity. everyone isn't lying, not too mention it's probably going Free-2-Play soon. What else do you want?

 

So, bascially, you have no data of any kind and your entire argument is based on your personal assumption clouded by bias. Got it.  Thank you for clearing that up. 

You do see the humor in using forum posts to prove your point in a forum post that is a stellar example of how forum posts are not necessarily based on any level of fact or reality, right? 

There ya go, server populations not doing great.

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/eu/trends

They said server pops were low a while ago.. That's nothing new. The OP's argument was based on the statement that SWTOR was a costly failure - a claim that can neither be confirmed nor refusted by PCU.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Abdar

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/04
Posts: 402

5/03/12 9:05:13 AM#35
The OP is either trolling, or honestly doesn't know what a sandbox MMO is.. either way, SWTOR is probably the most opposite sandbox MMO out there.
  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

5/03/12 9:05:19 AM#36
Originally posted by dontadow
Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.

I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

I think SWTOR will ruin the chance of a game company spending this much money on a AAA MMO again.  I think they've found their cost ceiling for the genre. 

I agree. I'd speculate that we're going to be looking at future MMOs being developed for a fraction of that cost, probably in the range of whatever they feel they can recouperate from initial box sales and preorders.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2318

"Free to play, pay to win""

5/03/12 9:05:25 AM#37
Originally posted by MARTYB2K
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Tranquilliti
Are you trolling? This is absolutely the worst possible game for sandbox players. It takes everything sandbox players hate and makes them even worse. This is the most mainstream game ever made with one of the biggest pay to win cash shop's in any western MMO. 

What he means, is that because of his assumption of SWTOR being an utter failure, it somehow proves that people want sandboxes.

Thats why its a win for sandbox players.

Or maybe even just a game that isn't totally Dumbed Down and sold as something it's not.

Yumm

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

  silverreign

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 331

It is what it is

5/03/12 9:10:25 AM#38


Originally posted by comrademario


Originally posted by MARTYB2K
Sure, you ever heard of "The customer is always right". Well the public have spoken. The vast majority are negative:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/ratings (Look at all the talk of empty Planets)
Also: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/forum/893/General-Discussion.html (Unhappy people)
Finally, just look at the Offical Forums for lots more negativity. everyone isn't lying, not too mention it's probably going Free-2-Play soon. What else do you want?


 
Not saying you're wrong on the main point, as I didn't play SWTOR for one minute (I prefer original worlds to explore, not Star Wars, Middle Earth, the Seven Kingdoms or any other spin offs) but on the point of 'the customer is always right'
 
No they aren't, the customer usually hasn't a clue what they're talking about and mouths off about anything and everything :P
 
Plus, official forums are always negative, simply because the complainers will talk louder, and at greater length, than those who enjoy the game,


Plus, official forums are always negative, simply because the complainers will talk louder, and at greater length, than those who enjoy the game

couldnt agree more. all u hear from r the complainers because the ones enjoying the game r playing, not posting.

  Rasputin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/07/03
Posts: 618

5/03/12 9:14:16 AM#39
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Rasputin
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.

I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

Can you link to the data you are basing this on? Specifically, the fact that SWTOR is a "costly and spectacular failure" since your entire argument is based on that part in particular.

There are good indicators: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/thread/349680/Seems-like-the-game-has-peaked-on-XFire-Part-2.html

I'd been avoiding that thread because XFire threads around here usually get really weird. Will go check that out.

Metenso has been hard at work collecting statistics.

Of course it is x-fire, and there are problems with using it, but it has proven itself at showing trends IMO.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4937471

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

5/03/12 9:19:32 AM#40


Originally posted by MARTYB2K
I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.
I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.
I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.



My guess is that all the money they've made off of SWToR says you're wrong. That's just a guess though.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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