I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.

I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.

I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

Can you link to the data you are basing this on? Specifically, the fact that SWTOR is a "costly and spectacular failure" since your entire argument is based on that part in particular.

This is absolutely the worst possible game for sandbox players. It takes everything sandbox players hate and makes them even worse. This is the most mainstream game ever made. 

EDIT: Sorry about what I just said, I got this confused with a gw2 thread but my point is still valid even though I was arguing with the OP who I actually agree with. That is why I said the cash shop rubbish, I am sure SWTOR will be free to play and pay to win soon anyway. 

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.

I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

Can you link to the data you are basing this on? Specifically, the fact that SWTOR is a "costly and spectacular failure" since your entire argument is based on that part in particular.

 

 

Sure, you ever heard of "The customer is always right". Well the public have spoken. The vast majority are negative:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/ratings (Look at all the talk of empty Planets)

Also: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/forum/893/General-Discussion.html (Unhappy people)

Finally, just look at the Offical Forums for lots more negativity. everyone isn't lying, not too mention it's probably going Free-2-Play soon. What else do you want?

Originally posted by Tranquilliti
Are you trolling? This is absolutely the worst possible game for sandbox players. It takes everything sandbox players hate and makes them even worse. This is the most mainstream game ever made with one of the biggest pay to win cash shop's in any western MMO. 

Go back and re-read my post. Not just the Title.

People love Nostalgia. 

Everquest was a great game for many years. Star Wars Galaxies never was. But many years have passed since those games were at the peak of their popularity. SWTOR doesn't break much new ground and even as a subscriber I can agree on that point. However, I hardly think SWTOR does anything to really damage anythhing either. SWTOR can definitely be accused of going the WoW route but why shouldn't they? EA/Bioware obviously saw that WoW peaked at about 12 million subscribers and who wouldn't want those kinds of numbers? So they made a game that had a lot in common with Blizzard's masterpiece. Did they fall short? Certainly but I think people are far too critical of a company who wants to find the success that a game like World of Warcraft was able to find. It didn't break much new ground but didn't terribly mess much up either. It's just mostly a game that you play for a few months and then put it down for a while. Nothing wrong with that. I got my money's worth and I don't regret it. Not every game can keep your attention and dollars for years at a time.But I don't think Bioware is about to give up on that goal yet either. Legacy 1.2 makes me believe there may be some life in this game afterall. Only time will tell.

Originally posted by Oldsalt
Seems like more good Indie games are starting to become available for those who don't like theme park games. They don't have all the bells and whistles and uber graphics, but they are usually cheaper, and have more story,personality, and are often more imaginative and addictive.

What games?

Originally posted by MARTYB2K

Sure, you ever heard of "The customer is always right". Well the public have spoken. The vast majority are negative:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/ratings (Look at all the talk of empty Planets)

Also: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/forum/893/General-Discussion.html (Unhappy people)

Finally, just look at the Offical Forums for lots more negativity. everyone isn't lying, not too mention it's probably going Free-2-Play soon. What else do you want?

Not saying you're wrong on the main point, as I didn't play SWTOR for one minute (I prefer original worlds to explore, not Star Wars, Middle Earth, the Seven Kingdoms or any other spin offs) but on the point of 'the customer is always right'

No they aren't, the customer usually hasn't a clue what they're talking about and mouths off about anything and everything :P

Plus, official forums are always negative, simply because the complainers will talk louder, and at greater length, than those who enjoy the game,

Originally posted by Tranquilliti
Are you trolling? This is absolutely the worst possible game for sandbox players. It takes everything sandbox players hate and makes them even worse. This is the most mainstream game ever made with one of the biggest pay to win cash shop's in any western MMO. 

What he means, is that because of his assumption of SWTOR being an utter failure, it somehow proves that people want sandboxes.

Thats why its a win for sandbox players.

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by Tranquilliti
Are you trolling? This is absolutely the worst possible game for sandbox players. It takes everything sandbox players hate and makes them even worse. This is the most mainstream game ever made with one of the biggest pay to win cash shop's in any western MMO. 

What he means, is that because of his assumption of SWTOR being an utter failure, it somehow proves that people want sandboxes.

Thats why its a win for sandbox players.

Or maybe even just a game that isn't totally Dumbed Down and sold as something it's not.

Originally posted by comrademario

Originally posted by MARTYB2K

Sure, you ever heard of "The customer is always right". Well the public have spoken. The vast majority are negative:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/ratings (Look at all the talk of empty Planets)

Also: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/forum/893/General-Discussion.html (Unhappy people)

Finally, just look at the Offical Forums for lots more negativity. everyone isn't lying, not too mention it's probably going Free-2-Play soon. What else do you want?

 

Not saying you're wrong on the main point, as I didn't play SWTOR for one minute (I prefer original worlds to explore, not Star Wars, Middle Earth, the Seven Kingdoms or any other spin offs) but on the point of 'the customer is always right'

 

No they aren't, the customer usually hasn't a clue what they're talking about and mouths off about anything and everything :P

 

Plus, official forums are always negative, simply because the complainers will talk louder, and at greater length, than those who enjoy the game,

The main point is that because SW;TOR wasnt a success, it means that in future MMO developers are more likely to move away from the whole 'themepark' approach to gaming, which imo, is a very good thing,  and although i seriously doubt that SW;TOR is ever going to be F2P, as that isnt how EA does things, and they do have a lot of previous examples of what happens to MMO's that 'fail' as yet though, its too soon to right SW;TOR off, although the game is clearly in a downward spiral at the moment, and yes, those that complain are usually quite loud about it, but, that doesnt take away from the fact that SW;TOR has a lot of unhappy customers, possibly ex-customers, and far from mouthing off, i would say that for the greater part, they know exactly what it is their complaining about. Any company based on leisure/entertainment industry, has to take note of customer opinion, so while the customer might not always be right, their opinion needs to be taken into account rather than ignored, at least if you plan to stay in business in said industry.

Originally posted by MARTYB2K

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.

I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

Can you link to the data you are basing this on? Specifically, the fact that SWTOR is a "costly and spectacular failure" since your entire argument is based on that part in particular.

Sure, you ever heard of "The customer is always right". Well the public have spoken. The vast majority are negative:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/ratings (Look at all the talk of empty Planets)

Also: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/forum/893/General-Discussion.html (Unhappy people)

Finally, just look at the Offical Forums for lots more negativity. everyone isn't lying, not too mention it's probably going Free-2-Play soon. What else do you want?

So, bascially, you have no data of any kind and your entire argument is based on your personal assumption clouded by bias. Got it.  Thank you for clearing that up. 

You do see the humor in using forum posts to prove your point in a forum post that is a stellar example of how forum posts are not necessarily based on any level of fact or reality, right? 

Originally posted by MARTYB2K

Sure, you ever heard of "The customer is always right". Well the public have spoken. The vast majority are negative:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/ratings (Look at all the talk of empty Planets)

Also: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/forum/893/General-Discussion.html (Unhappy people)

Finally, just look at the Offical Forums for lots more negativity. everyone isn't lying, not too mention it's probably going Free-2-Play soon. What else do you want?

The first link is really funny.

A guy played this game for multiple months and then complains its "boring".

Hello ? Boring ? He played it for multiple months ! I call a game boring when I'm bored out of my mind after 3 days, like with Guild Wars.

Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

The Secret World has the most sandbox out of the 3. It's not a sandbox, but many reviews have called it a blend. The crafting seems to be more sandboxy than anything I've seen. 

TSW leaves the EQ/WoW model the most out the 3 as well. 3 factions, no classes, and a  more parrelel progression than verticle. 

june 19th for a lot of us, it is are last hope for something new in the genre.

Originally posted by Phry

...d although i seriously doubt that SW;TOR is ever going to be F2P, as that isnt how EA does things...

EA has been moving everything to F2P over the past two years. In the past they would just switch the server off, however their latest strategy is to move more and more games online (ex: FIFA) and offer free to play service.

The big issue with that is pointed out in Rasputin's thread, where he brings up how the next step after the games being online is losing them forever, which is what EA has taken to doing with their low usage games over the past couple of months.

Play4Free has been doing well for EA, so a possible F2P future for SWTOR isn't out of the question.

Originally posted by Jakard

[...] EA/Bioware obviously saw that WoW peaked at about 12 million subscribers and who wouldn't want those kinds of numbers? [...]

I cant believe you buy that argument yourself.

WoW was such a success because of:

1. low hardware requirements
2. easy access to newbies, but depth in longer gameplay
3. good quality in game design, including good interface etc
4. good development team that fixed bugs relatively fast
5. good name of company + massive advertisement + word of mouth
6. it was the only western game ever that had success in Asia.
7. Last but not least, it came at the right time, with little concurrence

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by MARTYB2K

I played SWTOR for about 3 weeks. It wasn't bad, but it sums up everything that is wrong with gaming today. Dumbing Down.

I find it in-excusable that games like SWG and Everquest had much more innovation and were out a Decade ago. WOW built up the Theme Park, SWTOR will help kill it. The spectacular and costly failure of SWTOR will force games developers to go back to the drawing board and not give us a single player game with a chat channel anymore. I want living, breathing, immersive worlds. Not a Call of Duty with Spells.

I've got my eye on Guild Wars 2. It might be Theme Parky, but at least the developers are trying to give is something new. Good luck to them. I don't expect it to be as much as a Sandbox like SWG was, but at least it might cater to us Sandbox player in a small way.

Can you link to the data you are basing this on? Specifically, the fact that SWTOR is a "costly and spectacular failure" since your entire argument is based on that part in particular.

 

 

There are good indicators: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/forums/thread/349680/Seems-like-the-game-has-peaked-on-XFire-Part-2.html

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Phry

...d although i seriously doubt that SW;TOR is ever going to be F2P, as that isnt how EA does things...

EA has been moving everything to F2P over the past two years. In the past they would just switch the server off, however their latest strategy is to move more and more games online (ex: FIFA) and offer free to play service.

The big issue with that is pointed out in Rasputin's thread, where he brings up how the next step after the games being online is losing them forever, which is what EA has taken to doing with their low usage games over the past couple of months.

Play4Free has been doing well for EA, so a possible F2P future for SWTOR isn't out of the question.

my comment was based on previous examples of MMO's they have had, i would personally have loved it if Earth and Beyond etc. had gone F2P, as for SW;TOR.. i can't see them ever not charging a sub for it, i suspect, not unreasonably, that for EA, SW;TOR will be an everything or nothing deal, but despite its current situation, i think things would have to get much worse before the game was 'shut down' and while i don't see the game ever having 'millions' of players, i don't see it dropping below 100k either, which is pretty much what we're talking about.