Originally posted by Overfiend138

to quote PC Gamer: "You could give away a bag with $10 in it for free, and someone will complain that it's not $20"

In the case of gamers, this is true more often than not,

That's so true, I heard another version;

"If you gave gamers a magical hat that granted free wishes they would complain about the color of the hat."

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by redzebrass

Back@wickedjelly

So what if they used it as a marketing ploy, it's a business at the end of the day not a charity, marketing is what business do, and everyone who bought the game must agree with this otherwise they wouldn't have even considered buying it. The point is that nobody had to buy into it. 

As for people who aren't privy to how betas work, really, if they found out about guild wars 2 in the first place then they've had plenty of time to find out how betas work, unless you're implying that these people are lower in the IQ department.......

 

 I'm not marking them with a Scarlet Letter 'A' for using it as a marketing ploy. What I am saying is the moment you go that route you open up the flood gates for people being insanely judgemental because they're now "invested" in the product. Is it smart from a business perspective? Of course. Does going that route have repurcussions from a customer standpoint? Of course. To think some wouldn't get bent out of shape if they had serious issues getting into the beta is simply ridiculous especially when they have a monetary investment in the product now. Frankly, I have no sympathy for Anet because just like no one forced the customer to buy the game - no one forced Anet to go the route they chose either.

...and you guys need to wake up in how you judge people. Not everyone follows mmos like we do nor has the time. Just because someone doesn't know how betas work like you or I does not mean they're dense. I mean really now...

 

Thing is, I've seen lots of beta's where people haven't had to pay to get to play it, and there have still been people bitch and moan about quality or aspects of those games, the company's will never win no matter what they do, but we gave Anet the reason to go this route, because I've never seen so many people so desperate to play a game before, a lot more than any other I know about.

as for people, if they don't follow or even have the time, why on earth would they even want to play, I mean come on you have to be interested at least to have looked it up in the first place.

This was no pre order beta it was pre purchased beta.

The only way to be in beta was to pay the full money upfront and remember unlike preorders digital pre purchase are not refundables.

The biggest problem was for 90% of the beta event duration thousands of players were not given access to the game at all due to account locked out region wise.

I could undersand beta issues  as game not performing , crashing , skills bugged etc etc but this was not the case at all.

ANET states on there websire that prepurchase give YOU GUARANTEED ACCESS TO ALL BETA EVENT WEEKENDS

my contention is I did not get that access at all to the game that was guranteed to me

Someone posted ahn example of a Ferrais car, In my case was I come for the test drive and the guy hey the warehouse is locked and we cant open it for you to test the car.

2nd reason for the rage was lack of clear communication .People were glued to hours and hours on the forums wondersing if they had resolved the issue. An honest tweet from ANET that they dont think thye can solve it instantly and might require 6 hours or 10 hours or 15 hours or so time frame it would have helped

People did not pay for the beta. They paid for the game. Beta access was a gift. Who complains about gifts? Jerks.

Originally posted by Indol

People did not pay for the beta. They paid for the game. Beta access was a gift. Who complains about gifts? Jerks.

 

 

 Lol...this just keeps getting better and better.

I had log in issues but i dont complain because is a BETA. Also i think this was the real beta test, real server test and real gamers players test, before was just a press look what the game is and make a article about it.

We where there to test find bugs and report them, not to play and enjoy the game (while we are allowed to do it) i did enjoy my experience. And eventho is a BETA i found it less buggy than other games that are released for 1-2 years...

Originally posted by Ulorik

Originally posted by Torvaldr

I disagree in this case.  ANet had a million beta applicants.  They had a huge pool with a lot of hardware profiles to choose from.  They could have sent out questionnaires and refined the pool down to a large pool very interested in BETA testing.  Did any significant portion of that pool even get chosen to test?

No, instead they chose to sell preview access to their game for marketing purposes.  It worked.  Their marketing department is genius.

They also deserve everything they get with that.  It is in no way shape or form the fault of the the "stupid gaming community".

And again, this sums up things nicely....

 

I'm really glad there are so many peolpe out there who had a great beta experience, which bodes well for the game. I would just kindly ask those who were lucky enough to have a smooth ride to put themselve in the position of those pre-purchasing the game and not getting access (after not being selected for the "free" beta) and ask yourself how you would have felt.

 

Just to quote Anet again: Pre-Purchase the game now and get Access to all beta events.

I purchased a product and did not get Access.

You got Access, the login screen counts for something.

Hopefully beta ragers will get weeded out making the game that much more enjoyable.

Originally posted by sassoonss

This was no pre order beta it was pre purchased beta. 

The only way to be in beta was to pay the full money upfront and remember unlike preorders digital pre purchase are not refundables. 

The biggest problem was for 90% of the beta event duration thousands of players were not given access to the game at all due to account locked out region wise.

I could undersand beta issues  as game not performing , crashing , skills bugged etc etc but this was not the case at all. 

ANET states on there websire that prepurchase give YOU GUARANTEED ACCESS TO ALL BETA EVENT WEEKENDS 

my contention is I did not get that access at all to the game that was guranteed to me 

Someone posted ahn example of a Ferrais car, In my case was I come for the test drive and the guy hey the warehouse is locked and we cant open it for you to test the car. 

2nd reason for the rage was lack of clear communication .People were glued to hours and hours on the forums wondersing if they had resolved the issue. An honest tweet from ANET that they dont think thye can solve it instantly and might require 6 hours or 10 hours or 15 hours or so time frame it would have helped

 

No, there was no "pre-purchase Beta", per se.

The product, the game, was available for pre-purchase.  As a perk, an incentive, to pony up and pre-purchase the Game, several items came with your Game pre-purchase, the inventory of which varies depending on the package you bought:  Digital, Digital Deluxe, Collectors.

As far as Game access prior to release is concerned this includes the following:

1)  Access to all Guild Wars 2 Beta Weekend Events, 2) Three Day Head Start Access.

Of the two only option 2 is represented as live-play availability.

Option 1 carries with it the clear risk of access problems as a result of problems found during BETA testing.  Sort of the point to a BETA, that being the finding of problems.

The trick here is all those who could NOT login still participated in the Beta.

You are thanked for that, job well done for the betterment of the game when it goes live.  Also the point to a BETA.

You found a problem, a particularly unfortunate one, and reported it, though accompanied with an unnecessary amount of flatulent squealing.

The problem you found unfortunately LANDED on something that affected login ability.  That would be an infrastructure issue of some kind, likely triggered by load spikes.  My guess anyway.  Frustrating, disappointing, fair enough.  Perfectly understandable people would be disappointed. 

This doesn't change the algorithm one wit however:  A problem was found, it's reported, needs to be fixed.  That's part of Beta.  Which you were given access to.

I played WoW for five years. Paid them a SUBSCRIPTION FEE every month like clockwork as well as the initial fee.  I PAID for service in LIve well past any form of testing.

And guess what?  There was down time occasionally, whether scheduled maintenance or server hickups.

You didn't "pay Anet MONEY for guaranteed access to their infrastructure no matter WHAT!"

You, and every other person operating through a pre-purchase of the yet-to-be-released GAME had as one of the perks associated with pre-purchase of the Game access to Beta Test Weekends . . .

. . . which by it's very definition carries with it, automatically, the foreknowledge there are going to be problems found, maybe even server down time or connection issues.

Get your heads screwed on straight.  THIS is the time the Community can actually play a role in making the game better PRIOR to release and live. 

Test the product, call out problems, that's what Testing is for, you should do no less.

But you'd serve the GAME and, believe it or not, yourselves better in the long run if you started to actually THINK before waving your Entitlement Flags over your heads, yapping like schauzers chasing chipmunks.

Originally posted by Silverbranch

Asking the general "Gaming Community" to conduct Beta Testing is like trying to train a bunch of chimpanzees to change an auto-transmission.

 

You'll get an awful lot of noise and commotion and tool bashing sure to ding up the paint and body while the transmission remains a mystery.

 

I'm sure there are some diamonds in the rough in the middle of all that, but otherwise . . . meh.

Now go stand in a corner and eat a banana.

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Originally posted by Silverbranch

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Originally posted by sassoonss This was no pre order beta it was pre purchased beta.  The only way to be in beta was to pay the full money upfront and remember unlike preorders digital pre purchase are not refundables.  The biggest problem was for 90% of the beta event duration thousands of players were not given access to the game at all due to account locked out region wise. I could undersand beta issues  as game not performing , crashing , skills bugged etc etc but this was not the case at all.  ANET states on there websire that prepurchase give YOU GUARANTEED ACCESS TO ALL BETA EVENT WEEKENDS  my contention is I did not get that access at all to the game that was guranteed to me  Someone posted ahn example of a Ferrais car, In my case was I come for the test drive and the guy hey the warehouse is locked and we cant open it for you to test the car.  2nd reason for the rage was lack of clear communication .People were glued to hours and hours on the forums wondersing if they had resolved the issue. An honest tweet from ANET that they dont think thye can solve it instantly and might require 6 hours or 10 hours or 15 hours or so time frame it would have helped  

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No, there was no "pre-purchase Beta", per se.The product, the game, was available for pre-purchase.  As a perk, an incentive, to pony up and pre-purchase the Game, several items came with your Game pre-purchase, the inventory of which varies depending on the package you bought:  Digital, Digital Deluxe, Collectors.As far as Game access prior to release is concerned this includes the following:1)  Access to all Guild Wars 2 Beta Weekend Events, 2) Three Day Head Start Access.Of the two only option 2 is represented as live-play availability.Option 1 carries with it the clear risk of access problems as a result of problems found during BETA testing.  Sort of the point to a BETA, that being the finding of problems.The trick here is all those who could NOT login still participated in the Beta.You are thanked for that, job well done for the betterment of the game when it goes live.  Also the point to a BETA.You found a problem, a particularly unfortunate one, and reported it, though accompanied with an unnecessary amount of flatulent squealing.The problem you found unfortunately LANDED on something that affected login ability.  That would be an infrastructure issue of some kind, likely triggered by load spikes.  My guess anyway.  Frustrating, disappointing, fair enough.  Perfectly understandable people would be disappointed. This doesn't change the algorithm one wit however:  A problem was found, it's reported, needs to be fixed.  That's part of Beta.  Which you were given access to.I played WoW for five years. Paid them a SUBSCRIPTION FEE every month like clockwork as well as the initial fee.  I PAID for service in LIve well past any form of testing.And guess what?  There was down time occasionally, whether scheduled maintenance or server hickups.You didn't "pay Anet MONEY for guaranteed access to their infrastructure no matter WHAT!"You, and every other person operating through a pre-purchase of the yet-to-be-released GAME had as one of the perks associated with pre-purchase of the Game access to Beta Test Weekends . . .. . . which by it's very definition carries with it, automatically, the foreknowledge there are going to be problems found, maybe even server down time or connection issues.Get your heads screwed on straight.  THIS is the time the Community can actually play a role in making the game better PRIOR to release and live. Test the product, call out problems, that's what Testing is for, you should do no less.But you'd serve the GAME and, believe it or not, yourselves better in the long run if you started to actually THINK before waving your Entitlement Flags over your heads, yapping like schauzers chasing chipmunks.Originally posted by SilverbranchAsking the general "Gaming Community" to conduct Beta Testing is like trying to train a bunch of chimpanzees to change an auto-transmission. You'll get an awful lot of noise and commotion and tool bashing sure to ding up the paint and body while the transmission remains a mystery. I'm sure there are some diamonds in the rough in the middle of all that, but otherwise . . . meh. Now go stand in a corner and eat a banana. 

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Let me ask from those who did pre purchase.
was there any language in the pre purchase that specifically stated there might be issues with logging in? Or anything related to server loads and or queue times and waiting?

Was that addressed in ANet's Beta Access ELUA or anywwhere?

Or more to the point, did Anet cover this contingency in the agreement?

Originally posted by Silverbranch

 

~Stuf~

The product, the game, was available for pre-purchase. 

~stuff~

 

Uhgg, how hard is this to understand. Yet some just don't get it. They were marketing their BWE as a buy in event. Most got that e-mail not long before sales haulted. "Want guaranteed Weekend beta access? Then pre-purchase GW2 now." This is pushing people into a mentality of entitlement. Any problems with that "access" is going to result in unhappy consumers. They paid for a guarantee they didn't receive. Spin that anyway in A-nets favor you want, it will not change why those people felt entitled to that which they did not receive.

Everyone else I couldn't care less about ( those generally unhappy with a product). But those paying for services not rendered is a different story entirely.

What made the matter 100% worse was the state of customer services at the time. (Which yes I understand pre-release this is almost always the case). Doesn't change that it was all but non-existent for those having issues.

I won't deny some may have overreacted to the issues, at the same time, when money is involved these are customers not testers.

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Originally posted by Distopia

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Originally posted by Silverbranch

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~Stuf~
The product, the game, was available for pre-purchase. 
~stuff~

 

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Uhgg, how hard is this to understand. Yet some just don't get it. They were marketing their BWE as a buy in event. Most got that e-mail not long before sales haulted. "Want guaranteed Weekend beta access? Then pre-purchase GW2 now." This is pushing people into a mentality of entitlement. Any problems with that "access" is going to result in unhappy consumers. They paid for a guarantee they didn't receive. Spin that anyway in A-nets favor you want, it will not change why those people felt entitled to that which they did not receive.
Everyone else I couldn't care less about ( those generally unhappy with a product). But those paying for services not rendered is a different story entirely.
What made the matter 100% worse was the state of customer services at the time. (Which yes I understand pre-release this is almost always the case). Doesn't change that it was all but non-existent for those having issues.
I won't deny some may have overreacted to the issues, at the same time, when money is involved these are customers not testers.

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I am inclined to agree with you on this, But as I asked in my previous post, this issue may have been covered by ANet and if so, It's a simple case of Buyer Beware, if they didn't, then they advertised guaranteed access to a Beta event. Now, understand something. Buying access to a beta event does not make someone a beta tester, nor are they subject to the agreements beta testers have. This was a Beta Event they sold access to. If that is the extend of the language in the offer, then ANet had an obligation to make sure their infrastructure was up for the task.

Originally posted by Overfiend138

to quote PC Gamer: "You could give away a bag with $10 in it for free, and someone will complain that it's not $20"

In the case of gamers, this is true more often than not,

What is the value of the bag itself? if the bag is silk or some other nice material ill be happy

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

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I am inclined to agree with you on this, But as I asked in my previous post, this issue may have been covered by ANet and if so, It's a simple case of Buyer Beware, if they didn't, then they advertised guaranteed access to a Beta event. Now, understand something. Buying access to a beta event does not make someone a beta tester, nor are they subject to the agreements beta testers have. This was a Beta Event they sold access to. If that is the extend of the language in the offer, then ANet had an obligation to make sure their infrastructure was up for the task.

It didn't say anything about that in the E-mail, as far as fine print somewhere else, I have no idea. For legal obligations it most likely does, but as far as in a place to warn plainly of this possible issue, I've seen no example thus far.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

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Let me ask from those who did pre purchase.
was there any language in the pre purchase that specifically stated there might be issues with logging in? Or anything related to server loads and or queue times and waiting?

Was that addressed in ANet's Beta Access ELUA or anywwhere?

Or more to the point, did Anet cover this contingency in the agreement?

Are you really that clueless, naive, or just completly new?

You, an idividual consumer can't make an informed decision whether or not the product has RISKS.

You pre purchased a game with the perks of Beta access to play a unfinished product before it's final release. It doesn't get anymore obvious than that.

That's the risk you and I took.

Do you really need people to hold your hand?

Wow guys,... just wow.

Beta /= Finished product. I'm sorry, but it doesn't. You bought the game 'beta access' was a perk. Were you given a working beta code? If yes, then that's beta access. Login problems, bugs, etc. are beta issues, and are not promised as part of the game. If, for some reason, you didn't get a working beta code, or come launch, don't have access to the game, THEN you will have a legitimate complaint. Only then.

If you pay for a club membership, and the club has to close for a day for maintenance / remodelling / w/e, you aren't entitled to your money back. Beta is much the same deal. While it is a perk of purchase, what you're buying is the ability to participate in something. Whether or not you participate in that event, or whether or not it has technical problems is not a guaraunteed part of that agreement. It never is.

Not only has this been made abundantly clear (and I know some of you like to play ignorant on this), but Anet has made it extremely clear that you are buying the game in advance. They've corrected people multiple times 'no, this isn't a pre-order, it's a pre-purchase. The reason why we aren't using certain vendors is because they don't charge you until the product is delivered.' That statement alone should make this obvious. You're paying, in full and in advance, for a product you are not getting yet. Beta is not part of the product, the code, is.

Originally posted by aesperus

Wow guys,... just wow.

Beta /= Finished product. I'm sorry, but it doesn't. You bought the game 'beta access' was a perk. Were you given a working beta code? If yes, then that's beta access. Login problems, bugs, etc. are beta issues, and are not promised as part of the game. If, for some reason, you didn't get a working beta code, or come launch, don't have access to the game, THEN you will have a legitimate complaint. Only then.

If you pay for a club membership, and the club has to close for a day for maintenance / remodelling / w/e, you aren't entitled to your money back. Beta is much the same deal. While it is a perk of purchase, what you're buying is the ability to participate in something. Whether or not you participate in that event, or whether or not it has technical problems is not a guaraunteed part of that agreement. It never is.

Not only has this been made abundantly clear (and I know some of you like to play ignorant on this), but Anet has made it extremely clear that you are buying the game in advance. They've corrected people multiple times 'no, this isn't a pre-order, it's a pre-purchase. The reason why we aren't using certain vendors is because they don't charge you until the product is delivered.' That statement alone should make this obvious. You're paying, in full and in advance, for a product you are not getting yet. Beta is not part of the product, the code, is.

Anet is refunding for those who want to bail now...... Get your refund and RAGE elsewhere!  GO!  Be happy!