Originally posted by Konfess

It has been a theme of mine for years now.  And I am grateful for your honesty in admitting it.  What do MMORPG ( WoW ) haters want in their MMORPGs?  More FPS mechanics.  DAoC had /stick, /follow and /face plus skill rotations, this and Rv³ is what made DAoC's PvP.

GW2's PvP is for the Dodgers.  When only Dodgers PvP, the fun of PvP will evaporate.  Dodge will either be nerfed or eliminated from the game.  Enjoy it while it lasts.

Dodge is a limited use resource that charges over time. It has to be used situationally.

"but I do have a ton of experience with Mythic’s not-as-well received followup, Warhammer Online. I didn’t spend as much time with WvW as I’d have liked to during the beta event, but it’s pretty easy to tell that ArenaNet is definitely on the right track when compared to my experiences in WAR."

This article is a bit of a fanboy rant really.

I played in the beta weekend, I like the game and am happy I pre-purchased, but as a WAR player, it was a bit of a let down (and I WvW'd all three days for a total of 10+ hours).  Zerg on Zerg action was very present and felt identical to WAR Zerg on Zerg.  Perhaps your definition of Zerg is different than mine, I would say it has to be 20 players per side at least.  Melee DPS were getting focus fired like crazy (I was playing Engineer, I was the one doing the blowing up).  I know the fanboi brigade will pipe in here with "well everyone can do ranged stupid!" but if you try out lots of classes like I did, it's clear that some are much much better ranged/AOE characters than others.  The other flame I'm sure to get is "well don't fight in the Zerg then, go off and do other things stupid".  I get it and I did that, just like I did it in WAR. I'm only writing this because when I see the author write "I played WAR, and I didn't like it because of Zerg on Zerg, but in GW2 even Zerg on Zerg is awesome!", well, I won't go far as to call BS, but there's definitely some rose tinted glasses going on here.

The structured PVP maps were decent, but no better than WAR, plus from what I can tell, the only game mode is Conquest, where WAR had more variations (CTF and "hold the artifact" at least).

Yes there are many things GW2 does great, and I know it will be a better game than WAR, but that's only because I also like PVE.  I was hoping for a "better than WAR" pvp experience, and what I got was about the same, minor improvements at best from a pure gameplay perspective.  My biggest complaint with WAR was server imbalance, it was always 1 side having way more people than the other, and this seems like it won't be a problem in GW2, so that's great.

This post is really for WAR vets purely intrested if PVP who are wondering if this game will be for them.  If you were happy with WAR and want a slightly better version, this should do the trick.  If you got bored of WAR, I'm not sure you won't quickly get bored of GW2.

Originally posted by Frostillicus

"but I do have a ton of experience with Mythic’s not-as-well received followup, Warhammer Online. I didn’t spend as much time with WvW as I’d have liked to during the beta event, but it’s pretty easy to tell that ArenaNet is definitely on the right track when compared to my experiences in WAR."

This article is a bit of a fanboy rant really.

I played in the beta weekend, I like the game and am happy I pre-purchased, but as a WAR player, it was a bit of a let down (and I WvW'd all three days for a total of 10+ hours).  Zerg on Zerg action was very present and felt identical to WAR Zerg on Zerg.  Perhaps your definition of Zerg is different than mine, I would say it has to be 20 players per side at least.  Melee DPS were getting focus fired like crazy (I was playing Engineer, I was the one doing the blowing up).  I know the fanboi brigade will pipe in here with "well everyone can do ranged stupid!" but if you try out lots of classes like I did, it's clear that some are much much better ranged/AOE characters than others.  The other flame I'm sure to get is "well don't fight in the Zerg then, go off and do other things stupid".  I get it and I did that, just like I did it in WAR. I'm only writing this because when I see the author write "I played WAR, and I didn't like it because of Zerg on Zerg, but in GW2 even Zerg on Zerg is awesome!", well, I won't go far as to call BS, but there's definitely some rose tinted glasses going on here.

The structured PVP maps were decent, but no better than WAR, plus from what I can tell, the only game mode is Conquest, where WAR had more variations (CTF and "hold the artifact" at least).

Yes there are many things GW2 does great, and I know it will be a better game than WAR, but that's only because I also like PVE.  I was hoping for a "better than WAR" pvp experience, and what I got was about the same, minor improvements at best from a pure gameplay perspective.  My biggest complaint with WAR was server imbalance, it was always 1 side having way more people than the other, and this seems like it won't be a problem in GW2, so that's great.

This post is really for WAR vets purely intrested if PVP who are wondering if this game will be for them.  If you were happy with WAR and want a slightly better version, this should do the trick.  If you got bored of WAR, I'm not sure you won't quickly get bored of GW2.

 

I don't really care about your post or your feelings on GW2 because most of us love it feel it was done right and NOT once did I feel like I was playing WAR. The zerg on zerg felt like I was on a real battleground and no mmo has ever given me that feeling ever till GW2.

Now that has been said the real reason I wanted to post. Fanboy so sick of this Fanboys shit. No one can be a fan of anything anymore. My god I really like this game, Oh now your a fanboy.

All I see is you being a war fanboy. See lame just lame. I love GW2 and can careless about war does it make me a fanboy nope just tells you I really like the game. So in the end your just a fan hater and thats it, don't let me know you like a game, movies or a really nice car because I'll call you a fanboy for no reason except that you like something I don't.

So to all the so called GW2 fanboys keep it rocking and lets ignore the FAN-HATERs.

Totally agree that they are on the right track.  Was the most fun ive had since DAoC days, and they are the most memorable I have ever had in any MMO!

Ready for the release and the new races to be playable for next beta!

nice post- I myself who started with eveonline- went to wow- then war- back to wow- now back at war and woh maintaining a huge fan of WAR.....GW2 pvp beta  felt amazing!!!! ill be calling GW2 WvW my home for while!!!!

Originally posted by bestever



I don't really care about your post or your feelings on GW2 because most of us love it feel it was done right and NOT once did I feel like I was playing WAR. The zerg on zerg felt like I was on a real battleground and no mmo has ever given me that feeling ever till GW2...

 

I thought the post by Frostillicus was excellent. For veterans of pvp in many games (including WAR), his thoughts were spot on and was the kind of report I was looking for. Except for his use of the word "fanboy", I don't there was anything he said that was offensive, or should cause someone to become defensive. And you calling him a "WAR fanboy" is ironic, intentional or not.

I was not a big PvP fan either.   But then I played WvWvW in the BWE.  Now I wonder, how did ArenaNet get me addicted to two different things in the same game?????   Nice job Anet!

Some of you are judging WvW way too early.  Everyone only had 3 days to get used to the zones, skills, and overall mechanics of the game, such as dodging and support.  As the weeks go by, most players will start using strategies, team chat, voice chat, and more organization and coordination, with tactics.

One of the most exciting surprises for me was how possible it was to drop down into a mass of players attacking a wall, have some great back and forth - maybe even finish my target off, and then retreat out of the mess without dying (mostly).

In any other game that's almost always instant death. They got the TTK and survivability almost perfect as far as I can tell.

Which is great, as normally melee is limited in those scenarios. To actually be able to take part and serve a purpose really opened up my list of potential classes. I'd intended to quickly check out WvW for a half hour or so but that quickly turned into 5 hours - 5 hours of a wide variety and scale of activities.

I was more impressed than I expected to be, for someone who's been looking for something similar to DAoC  this game was perfect.

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Originally posted by bestever



I don't really care about your post or your feelings on GW2 because most of us love it feel it was done right and NOT once did I feel like I was playing WAR. The zerg on zerg felt like I was on a real battleground and no mmo has ever given me that feeling ever till GW2...

 

I thought the post by Frostillicus was excellent. For veterans of pvp in many games (including WAR), his thoughts were spot on and was the kind of report I was looking for. Except for his use of the word "fanboy", I don't there was anything he said that was offensive, or should cause someone to become defensive. And you calling him a "WAR fanboy" is ironic, intentional or not.

 

Thanks Boardwalker.  My use of the word fanboy was to refer to the irrational fans who can't abide any criticism, not fans in general.  I was not referring to everyone who likes GW2, I like GW2.

Sitting down to what I knew was to be my last session during BWE I logged my guardian and went right for the WvW. I found myself running east outside the walls of castle stonemist, which we held, and I came across Darius Gulch, a small keep that was under siege by around 25 blue invaders. As I saw them pounding the gates with a fiery battering ram for whatever reason I didn't think twice about running for the gate to get inside to defend it. Half way through their ranks several of them saw me and started laying me low and for a moment I thought I was a gonner but in a last ditch effort I through up a shield of absorption and somehow made it inside with 800 health. Once inside it hit me that I was all alone! Shit! Despite I ran up to the top of the wall and manned a ballista there where I began poppin off at these scumbags. I was able to pepper them decently but couldn't bring any down, just sent them running a ways away to recover. After a few I ran back downstairs and examined the gate to see it was at about 30%. I looked over to the supply area and saw it empty. Aww damn I was thinking, I'm so fucked. So I threw out a /team need help Darius gulch! Within moments 4-6 people arrived to help and we managed to pepper them a bit more from the wall before finally the gate broke. We fell back to the lord and miraculously somehow just the 6 or 7 of us held off that entire group. Before long more teammates showed up and we completely sent them packing and set to repairing the gate. They tried again and got pushed back. And then again they came and now with significant numbers we took the fight to them outside the walls and later to take the nearby supply camp. We got beat back to the keep one more time and it seemed like like their numbers had swelled significantly. Our keep was back under attack with maybe 15 of us inside and while we attacked from the wall we all were looking at the inevitable demise of this place. Then lo and behold came the unthinkable. A large group of red invaders came charging into the blue's flank breaking their ranks and with us still shooting from the wall, sending them scurrying for their base. Red had spread themselves thin and we quickly turned on them and sent them on their way as well. With both teams gone I stood in the base taking a breather, glanced at the clock and saw three hours had passed. Holy shit I thought before logging out. What a time!

Sounding very very good so far.

Just not feeling this game... same ole, same ole... nothing new, man so tired of mainstream WoW knock offs...

Originally posted by Camthylion

Just not feeling this game... same ole, same ole... nothing new, man so tired of mainstream WoW knock offs...

 

I don't think that's a fair comment, WoW sucks.  GW2 is great!  No stupid grindy shit, or lame raids. 

I think this is one of the things that allows GW2 to stand out!  I remember the great battles in DAoC.  I havent' found another MMO that could compare to them until GW2. 

The WvW is just allot of fun! AND you advance your character. You get an immediate top of the level your character can be. AND you get to keep everything you find!

Outstanding!

I think it's worth saying, that I dislike PvP. Intensely. But I ~LOVED~ GW2 WvWvW! I loved having things to do beside killing, ways to help the team and bog down invaders, I loved being able to dip in and out of pipes to avoid people or leap over walls to shortcut drop in on my victims. I didn't even mind dying! I hate dying in pvp! I was so into what I was doing that anytime I went zone it was just, get up, get back in, don't think about it. Because you're not just there for you, everyone is depending on you in some small way.

Great experience, really. All out, major warfare and subterfuge. That's what PvP should be.

Originally posted by Frostillicus

Yes there are many things GW2 does great, and I know it will be a better game than WAR, but that's only because I also like PVE.  I was hoping for a "better than WAR" pvp experience, and what I got was about the same, minor improvements at best from a pure gameplay perspective.  My biggest complaint with WAR was server imbalance, it was always 1 side having way more people than the other, and this seems like it won't be a problem in GW2, so that's great.

I dunno, I played WAR, and I think at least for the WvW (RvR) gameplay this game has it far superior to WAR's. I see where you're coming from, as far as scenarios, though. Not only did WAR have a lot more variety, it just had a lot more period. Afaik, we are launching w/ 4 battlegrounds, 1 of which is underwater. I dunno, I had some fun w/ them, but I think that at least for now, WvW is where it's at in this game as far as PvP is concerned.

That said, yes, WvW can get kinda zergy, but I think it's handled a lot better than it was in WAR. For one, as MikeB mentioned in his article, siege equipment plays a VERY key part in breaking up zergs. The folks over at team legacy also have a video out that illustrates this very clearly. They were able to take out a much larger force, and take a keep, with superior tactics and coordination.

Furthermore, I can say from my experience that melee aren't at as much of a disadvantage as a lot of people seem to think. I probably shouldn't be saying this (as my main will more than likely be a warrior), but if people keep complaining and get melee characters buffed, I can see a lot of QQing going around from people who will get roflstomped by any idiot w/ a greatsword. Melee characters already do sick damage if you know how to use them, the survivability factor comes down a lot to skill, and a lot of people don't realize this yet. Most characters have abilities that break / ignore CC, as well as skills that just flat out ignore damage completely. When you have a character that's invulnverable, charging at you, and can take you from full -> zero in about 1-3 seconds, that's scary enough already.

When it comes to zerg on zerg battles, getting in there with melee requires more thought than just charging in like a madman (like you could do in WAR). Some guardians can kind of get away with this, but you really need to try and break up the zergs for this (guardian's shield bubble is one way of doing this, so is waiting for an AoE volley, amongst others). Flanking is another important tactic, and one I use often. When it comes to zerg on keep gameplay. A lot of people haven't really grasped some of the map intricacies yet. There are some keeps where you can teleport onto the walls, and proceed to wreck / knock people off of them (most people don't expect this). There are also classes that can fear / pull players off of walls, putting htem in perfect range to be slaughtered by melee. There are options. Most players are just trying to do the most obvious tactic of 'lets all charge head first into this group. Oh no, I died, this game clearly has some balancing issues.' I've seen it happen over, and over, and over again during the BWE.

I like PvP, and for the first half of the weekend I didn't go WvW for fear I might not like it because of the zergs.

Well, saturday evening i decided to give it a go and just see what it had to offer...

I was blown away. The sheer size of it (the points to defend or take over), the four different maps that you can decide to enter, and the drawn out battles that flowed back and forth got me hooked.

I only went back to PvE on sunday to unlock some skill pts to get a few extra utilities and have even more fun.

Not comparing this to any other game out there, not saying it's better or worse than any other games' PvP but I simply fell in love with it and I do believe that other than unlocking the skills with the challenges and what not, I'll be spending ALOT of time in the Mists. :)

Nice write up BTW.

Originally posted by ELE3551
Sitting down to what I knew was to be my last session during BWE I logged my guardian and went right for the WvW. I found myself running east outside the walls of castle stonemist, which we held, and I came across Darius Gulch, a small keep that was under siege by around 25 blue invaders. As I saw them pounding the gates with a fiery battering ram for whatever reason I didn't think twice about running for the gate to get inside to defend it. Half way through their ranks several of them saw me and started laying me low and for a moment I thought I was a gonner but in a last ditch effort I through up a shield of absorption and somehow made it inside with 800 health. Once inside it hit me that I was all alone! Shit! Despite I ran up to the top of the wall and manned a ballista there where I began poppin off at these scumbags. I was able to pepper them decently but couldn't bring any down, just sent them running a ways away to recover. After a few I ran back downstairs and examined the gate to see it was at about 30%. I looked over to the supply area and saw it empty. Aww damn I was thinking, I'm so fucked. So I threw out a /team need help Darius gulch! Within moments 4-6 people arrived to help and we managed to pepper them a bit more from the wall before finally the gate broke. We fell back to the lord and miraculously somehow just the 6 or 7 of us held off that entire group. Before long more teammates showed up and we completely sent them packing and set to repairing the gate. They tried again and got pushed back. And then again they came and now with significant numbers we took the fight to them outside the walls and later to take the nearby supply camp. We got beat back to the keep one more time and it seemed like like their numbers had swelled significantly. Our keep was back under attack with maybe 15 of us inside and while we attacked from the wall we all were looking at the inevitable demise of this place. Then lo and behold came the unthinkable. A large group of red invaders came charging into the blue's flank breaking their ranks and with us still shooting from the wall, sending them scurrying for their base. Red had spread themselves thin and we quickly turned on them and sent them on their way as well. With both teams gone I stood in the base taking a breather, glanced at the clock and saw three hours had passed. Holy shit I thought before logging out. What a time!

I spent the weekend just running around doing PVE and making 5 different classes and had a ball, but after reading this post I WANT TO HAVE A BLAST!!!!!!   Roll on next beta sounds like a weekend of mashing faces on the cards. Awesome post man thanks

 

only one map for WvWvW ???

sorry i dont see any news after i play both.. DAoC and WAR