Originally posted by Krimzin

You have to have the carrot for the Donkey to continue to follow. Without the Carror, the donkey moves on.

No the most eloquent analogy but you get the point.

Its been true through every game thats had any kind of success..

You have to have some type of progression to keep people playing.

"Oh God, I have to keep logging in to get a pretty pretty hat to wear" if you say so.

Yes players want to look good, but more so, they want to have gear that others dont have. If at level 80, every guardian is wearing the same exact piece of gear then the lifespan of GW2 is going to be counted in Months, not years.

 

You chase the carrot on the stick. I prefer having the run of the entire farm. I may prefer corn on the cob one of these days while you're still chasing that carrot...

You must be one of those players who like played time > actual skill.   If I was good at the game but I didnt get to play much how would it be fair if some guy playes 24/7 and gets the leet gear and destroys me because of leet stats? 

No life gaming is so old. GW2 may not be for you, but a job application should be. 

Originally posted by Theonenoni

No life gaming is so old. GW2 may not be for you, but a job application should be. 

BOOM! head shot!

Originally posted by Krimzin

Since when did MMO players become the Whiney bitches of the gaming world. You guys sound like a bunch of little girls who are fighting over a dolly.

Typically those who want all the gear without the work are the lazy asses from the WoW Camp where everything is given to you without any work.

If you are the best at anything there should be a reward. If all the armor/weapons are the same at lvl 80, GW2 will fail.. much the same way GW1 failed.

If you have nothing to strive for, you have no reason to log on. You can have the best pvp in the world, but if bad player A can look and aquire the same gear as good player B, no one will stay.

Its human nature to want to be recognised for your achievements and your merits. If you are the same as every other player then there is no reason to play.

 ^^^ my point exactly

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by Krimzin

Typically those who want all the gear without the work are the lazy asses from the WoW Camp where everything is given to you without any work.

A lot of the people that want the gear treadmill are the raiders from WoW. So this part of your post makes no sense.

So you believe gear grinding is something that didn't happen before wow?

Originally posted by Depravity44

Originally posted by Krimzin

Since when did MMO players become the Whiney bitches of the gaming world. You guys sound like a bunch of little girls who are fighting over a dolly.

Typically those who want all the gear without the work are the lazy asses from the WoW Camp where everything is given to you without any work.

If you are the best at anything there should be a reward. If all the armor/weapons are the same at lvl 80, GW2 will fail.. much the same way GW1 failed.

If you have nothing to strive for, you have no reason to log on. You can have the best pvp in the world, but if bad player A can look and aquire the same gear as good player B, no one will stay.

Its human nature to want to be recognised for your achievements and your merits. If you are the same as every other player then there is no reason to play.

 ^^^ my point exactly

Then clearly GW2 is not the game for you, but you have plenty of choices.

Next.

Originally posted by Charlizzard

I think people have been about as clear as they can be that GW2 is not for people that like to level as quickly as possible to max so they can begin 8 months of loot grind in the same instances until you get a new patch or new expansion then you start all over again.

If people want a gear grind this is not the game for them, but you have plenty of other choices.

Funny thing is:

I see these people demand gear grind in every new MMO thats in development, and pretty much every MMO that had it after WoW failed miserably (latest example: SWTOR). The only game where gear grind worked is WoW.

And finally one AAA developer says NO to gear grind, and lot of people are thankful for it, because lets face it:

gear grind time has passed, and developers have to start thinking of what is actually fun and engaging about content itself, instead just sticking few uber pieces at the end.

It was good analogy to the games generally:

Lot of people play lot og games regularly without any rewards, just for the fun of it. Hell, i play table tennis every week without any rewards. I must be crazy or sumthing, never got +10 table tennis racket or table tennis shirt of uber criticals lol

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Charlizzard

I think people have been about as clear as they can be that GW2 is not for people that like to level as quickly as possible to max so they can begin 8 months of loot grind in the same instances until you get a new patch or new expansion then you start all over again.

If people want a gear grind this is not the game for them, but you have plenty of other choices.

Funny thing is:

I see these people demand gear grind in every new MMO thats in development, and pretty much every MMO that had it after WoW failed miserably (latest example: SWTOR). The only game where gear grind worked is WoW.

And finally one AAA developer says NO to gear grind, and lot of people are thankful for it, because lets face it:

gear grind time has passed, and developers have to start thinking of what is actually fun and engaging about content itself, instead just sticking few uber pieces at the end.

It was good analogy to the games generally:

Lot of people play lot og games regularly without any rewards, just for the fun of it. Hell, i play table tennis every week without any rewards. I must be crazy or sumthing, never got +10 table tennis racket or table tennis shirt of uber criticals lol

haha! :) loved the part with tennis :D

Originally posted by Depravity44
People keep talking about pvp being fair.  "This should be this way because it would be fair."  I've got news, life isn't fair and video games aren't fair.  People work for what they have which gives them an advantage.  This is true IRL and in game.  Hard work should give individuals advantages over those who go and buy the "blue light special" armor from droks.  Just my .02 cents.

Exactly that is reflected in GW2: you will have to work very hard to be No. 1 team or No. 1 WvWvW server OR No. 1 dungeon grinder.

Its like they fullfilled your dreams!

Originally posted by Depravity44
One of my major concerns with GW2 is the possibility that all lvl 80 items will have identical stats.  I was an avid original Guild Wars player and one of my biggest complaints is the fact that I wasn't rewarded for spending hours and hours accumulating items to build high-end Fissure armor.  Yes, the armor looked cool, but it had the exact same stats as (lvl 20) Droknars Forge armor.  So here's the question.  Will my dedication and time be worth the investment in end game dungeons offer better armor that has better stats than other level 80 armor or will it all be the same???!!!!  I really hope I'm not going to spend all these hours in this game just to find out that its a socialist nation at level 80.... :(

My interest in this game just went about 10000x higher if this is true!  Oh my how I hope all gear has the same stats and that skill will be the determining factor :)

Is it true?  please tell meeee its true!

People who want to win because of having higher stats are sad, imo, sorry.

Originally posted by ZoeMcCloskey

My interest in this game just went about 10000x higher if this is true!  Oh my how I hope all gear has the same stats and that skill will be the determining factor :)

Is it true?  please tell meeee its true!

People who want to win because of having higher stats are sad, imo, sorry.

Well, it's 100% true in structured PvP, everybody has the same types of armor.

Just from playing around PvE, there are rarity levels of armor though (JUST LIKE GW1).

So a white set of level 80 armor won't be as badass as a green, blue, purple or yellow set of armor.

There's supposed to be some sort of cap though,a nd more than one way to get max armor (Karma, crafting or dungeon rewards come to mind)

... but all level 80 armor won't be created equal, there will be some difference between your average random mob drop and the 'perfect' stuff.  ... and the various perfect sets will have different stats, so it'll probably still take a little work to get EXACTLY the stats you want (I want power over precision, for example)

Originally posted by dlld
Not same stats but the same "item level" there won't be new gear released past 80 that has more stats then old gear ala wow.

This I'm glad for. I hated having to grind gear, finally get a set then new content/expansion have more that make mine I worked so hard for and spent countless hours for be obsolete. The gear grind was not fun. I'm going to do dungeons and stuff in GW2 for different looks but it's not like something I will be forced to do to feel like a second job like WoW did.

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by ZoeMcCloskey

My interest in this game just went about 10000x higher if this is true!  Oh my how I hope all gear has the same stats and that skill will be the determining factor :)

Is it true?  please tell meeee its true!

People who want to win because of having higher stats are sad, imo, sorry.

Well, it's 100% true in structured PvP, everybody has the same types of armor.

Just from playing around PvE, there are rarity levels of armor though (JUST LIKE GW1).

So a white set of level 80 armor won't be as badass as a green, blue, purple or yellow set of armor.

There's supposed to be some sort of cap though,a nd more than one way to get max armor (Karma, crafting or dungeon rewards come to mind)

... but all level 80 armor won't be created equal, there will be some difference between your average random mob drop and the 'perfect' stuff.  ... and the various perfect sets will have different stats, so it'll probably still take a little work to get EXACTLY the stats you want (I want power over precision, for example)

Sounding like a good system so far though.  My main concern is not having to deal with situations like T4 Warhammer where someone can get so stacked on stats they could mash their face on the keyboard and win a fight against someone lower in realm rank and gear.  I was on both sides of it, don't like either side.  Sure running people over instantly is fun for a laugh a time or two but it wears off quickly.  On the other side being completely unable to compete is a universal turnoff to pretty much everyone afaik?

Some slight advantages like in Daoc with realm rank is fine, but the keyword is slight.  Make the rewards more about status than min/maxing.

Originally posted by QuicklyScott
This is what I don't understand about GW2.  Where is the hook - what keeps you playing?  If you can jump to the highest level to PVP, and content at level 80 doesn't really progress your character, just gives cosmetic bonuses, then how is it going to capitivate peoples' attention after the first couple of months?  When people just play for fun, the novelty can wear off pretty fast.

Think about how many people play online FPS games like CS, i played that game a good 8 hours a day for 3-4 years, you got nothing out of it but the joy of playing with friends. Its going to be the same with GW2

The stats won't be same but the power level will be.

I.E a quest item might have 20 precision and 20 power.

While dungeon drop might have 10 precision and 30 power.

Basically there's no gear grind and the changes are really minor.

Originally posted by Alucardlb

Originally posted by QuicklyScott
This is what I don't understand about GW2.  Where is the hook - what keeps you playing?  If you can jump to the highest level to PVP, and content at level 80 doesn't really progress your character, just gives cosmetic bonuses, then how is it going to capitivate peoples' attention after the first couple of months?  When people just play for fun, the novelty can wear off pretty fast.

Think about how many people play online FPS games like CS, i played that game a good 8 hours a day for 3-4 years, you got nothing out of it but the joy of playing with friends. Its going to be the same with GW2

*win*

Same as it felt like in Global Agenda and a few others I've played.   You play to have fun, not to get "better gear" than other people and then somehow think you are a "better person" because you have better gear and can win due to your gear. 

GA not perfect as an example :P  but close, when you hit level 30+ everyone is basically the same 30-50 and while there is better gear it is not substantial enough to cause a real big advantage.

Originally posted by Meowhead

Well, it's 100% true in structured PvP, everybody has the same types of armor.

Just from playing around PvE, there are rarity levels of armor though (JUST LIKE GW1).

So a white set of level 80 armor won't be as badass as a green, blue, purple or yellow set of armor.

There's supposed to be some sort of cap though,a nd more than one way to get max armor (Karma, crafting or dungeon rewards come to mind)

... but all level 80 armor won't be created equal, there will be some difference between your average random mob drop and the 'perfect' stuff.  ... and the various perfect sets will have different stats, so it'll probably still take a little work to get EXACTLY the stats you want (I want power over precision, for example)

Yes, but no amount of gear grinding will get you piece with 30% better stats. And thats the baseline of it.

And, AFAIK, in competitive part of PvP you are fully maxxed at lvl1, so its quite useless for that part of the game.

The only part where it might have slight impact is WvWvW, but i think many other things will be >>>>> important than you having +x power -x precision over the next guy.

Originally posted by Depravity44
People keep talking about pvp being fair.  "This should be this way because it would be fair."  I've got news, life isn't fair and video games aren't fair.  People work for what they have which gives them an advantage.  This is true IRL and in game.  Hard work should give individuals advantages over those who go and buy the "blue light special" armor from droks.  Just my .02 cents.

Sounds like you want your time to be worth more then someones money after all thats only fair, right?