Originally posted by Pale_Fire
Anarchy Online, probably.  I've never thought of it as themepark.

      The only knock on it is that it does have classes (professions), but you can spend the points in any way you want.

Mabinogi feels pretty sandboxy

Originally posted by dstar.
Perpetuum is pretty sandbox I think.  Would any of you consider Planetside sandbox? 

I would consider Planetside, RvR and/or Massivelly Online Persistent Battlefield...much like World War II Online. Not a themepark nor a Sandox...the third type in all of this is RvR.

Originally posted by Larsa

And indeed, the open ended gameplay as suggested by Suraknar is definitely a criterium that's missing on the list.

 

Indeed, that's probably the single most important criterion of a sandbox.  If a game pushes you to go to one particular zone from levels 1-10, then another zone for 10-15, then another zone for 15-20, and so forth, with everyone following the same sequence of zones as they level up, that's not a sandbox game at all--even if it fits everything on your original list.  That could almost be taken as the very definition of a theme park.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by Larsa

And indeed, the open ended gameplay as suggested by Suraknar is definitely a criterium that's missing on the list.

 

Indeed, that's probably the single most important criterion of a sandbox.  If a game pushes you to go to one particular zone from levels 1-10, then another zone for 10-15, then another zone for 15-20, and so forth, with everyone following the same sequence of zones as they level up, that's not a sandbox game at all--even if it fits everything on your original list.  That could almost be taken as the very definition of a theme park.

And if there is a definition of a Themepark, then maybe we just came a step closer to defining a Sandbox too. ;)

Perpetuum is a sandbox...It's an EVE clone.
Anarchy Online is a hybrid. It has a lot of features from both TPs and SBs

As far as defining a TP vs SB.
It's simple, At endgame, a Sandbox's focus is on building a world. A player's relative power comes from that which he does that persists in the virtual world.

In a Theme-park, the world is fully established, you can only play in it and have very little influence over it. So player's relative power comes from building his own character.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Perpetuum is a sandbox...It's an EVE clone.
Anarchy Online is a hybrid. It has a lot of features from both TPs and SBs

As far as defining a TP vs SB.
It's simple, At endgame, a Sandbox's focus is on building a world. A player's relative power comes from that which he does that persists in the virtual world.

In a Theme-park, the world is fully established, you can only play in it and have very little influence over it. So player's relative power comes from building his own character.

So in other words, TP is a Guided Experience, where the player has no decision to make in relation to the world, and SB is an Open Ended experience where the player makes decisions in relation to the world.

Both could have Housing in reality both could share a number of other features.

About as sandbox as it gets.

This game was started by Rolf Jansson and Markus Persson (Notch of Minecraft Fame) Alot of new features are going in at the moment. 

http://www.wurmonline.com

• Explore huge, diverse landmasses extending over 512sq km in total
• Make your home on either the PvP or PvE server
• Craft and use thousands of unique items
• Wage war on other kingdoms, and lead yours to victory
• Hunt creatures such as the unique red dragon, forest giant, kyklops, troll king and others!
• Discover and fight over religious artifacts on the PvP server
• Modify the terrain; dig, raise, flatten and sculpt the land around you!
• Capture and breed animals from the environment
• Train 114 Skills, 10 Player Characteristics, and 3 Religion Characteristics
• Follow one of four unique deities and religions.
• Become a priest or champion of your religion and learn powerful spells and enchantments.
• Choose one of five meditation paths and take advantage of special meditation abilities
• Earn as many of our 200+ skill and achievement titles as you have time for!
• Mount various creatures, from horses and carts to unicorns, bears and even dragons!
• Construct, crew or even captain seven different ship types, from small rowing boats to impressive caravels with other players
• Build a variety of structures, from guard towers to stone houses to fences and statues.
• Found your own settlement wherever you desire; own land, build a farm, a castle, or perhaps an entire village!
• Pave roads and plant signs to improve local infrastructure and by connecting settlements
• Live off the land by creating fields to farm a variety of crops including potatoes, garlic, cotton, wheat, pumpkins and more!
• Cook food using a huge range of ingredients
• ...and much more!

---

Originally posted by Suraknar

---

Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Perpetuum is a sandbox...It's an EVE clone.
Anarchy Online is a hybrid. It has a lot of features from both TPs and SBs
As far as defining a TP vs SB.
It's simple, At endgame, a Sandbox's focus is on building a world. A player's relative power comes from that which he does that persists in the virtual world.
In a Theme-park, the world is fully established, you can only play in it and have very little influence over it. So player's relative power comes from building his own character.

---

So in other words, TP is a Guided Experience, where the player has no decision to make in relation to the world, and SB is an Open Ended experience where the player makes decisions in relation to the world.
Both could have Housing in reality both could share a number of other features.
 
 

---

Focus: Sandbox=World, Theme-Park=Character.

Wakfu is a sandbox.

someone mentioned ragnarok online, its not. its very linear, especially after the renewal update.

Also, Mabinogi

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

---

Originally posted by Suraknar

---

Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Perpetuum is a sandbox...It's an EVE clone.
Anarchy Online is a hybrid. It has a lot of features from both TPs and SBs
As far as defining a TP vs SB.
It's simple, At endgame, a Sandbox's focus is on building a world. A player's relative power comes from that which he does that persists in the virtual world.
In a Theme-park, the world is fully established, you can only play in it and have very little influence over it. So player's relative power comes from building his own character.

---

So in other words, TP is a Guided Experience, where the player has no decision to make in relation to the world, and SB is an Open Ended experience where the player makes decisions in relation to the world.
Both could have Housing in reality both could share a number of other features.
 
 

---

I tend to look at it as more of the focus of the game rather than absolutes, but pretty much in a Theme-park the experience is kinda like this: "OK, here's the world, you are welcome to play in it, but you can't change anything." The sandbox, does allow you to make changes in the world and so the world itself has less to offer in terms of what to do. You kinda make that happen for yourself and with others.

 

Focus: Sandbox=World, Theme-Park=Character.

I will agree with that as well, yes absolutelly!

This is the "hand on" feeling that one gets from playing one or another type.

I may on the other hand seem to talk in an "absolutes" fashion simply because the aim here was to find a proper definition that everyone can agree upon, and since after much much discussion for years in thes forums we still (as expressed in the OP), seem to not be able to have a clear definition of what a Sandbox MMO is, and I find that surprising personally because I think, converselly to the statements made abouyt a definition, it is simple and clear...

Updated the OP.

• added Perpetuum, Uncharted Waters Online and Wurm to the list (stupid me: how could I have forgotten Wurm and UWO, I even played both games).
• changed the text about sandbox features to include open-ended gameplay. Also added text to make some points clearer (I hope).

I will have to look at some suggested games, notably Fallen Earth, Mabinogi and Wakfu, I didn't play any of them. Opinions welcome. I tend not to include games that could be considered hybrids, like for example Vanguard or Asheron's Call (don't really know how AC is these days). Let someone else make a list of hybrids. :)

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

[Edit: Also changed the word "games" to "MMORPGs" a few times so that it's clearer that this is a list of sandbox MMORPGs. :)]

Originally posted by Dragonantis
Nobody mentioned Minecraft :)

I was just about to say that :)

Originally posted by Emrendil

Originally posted by Dragonantis
Nobody mentioned Minecraft :)

I was just about to say that :)

I'm rather uneducated about Minecraft. Is Minecraft an MMORPG? This is an honest question, I really don't know.

Someone earlier in this thread suggested Risen 3. I don't think that's an MMORPG as well.

Edit: Granted, the thread title mentions "sandbox games" and not MMORPGs, maybe I should change that. :)

Originally posted by Tharlog
Don't forget about Wurm Online... god if they only updated the horrid animations it would be my ideal game!

Same here. I don't need fancy graphics... I prefer raw graphics like AC1 and Istaria, and Wurm.. but Wurm not only needs better animations, it just plain needs SOME animations in most cases. It could also use a few different player skins. Other than that, it's a great sandbox experience.