Originally posted by Jyiiga

I wonder how many people will be like me....

When it comes to my enjoyment of MMO titles money is not something I worry about. If I see a bunch of bank slots, keys, cosmetic armor/weapons, dyes, etc in their cash shop and I want them. I will drop 200 dollars without flinching. This is a game I can see myself playing for a long time. 

The force is strong with that one, I agree 200%!

Check your PMs, btw, Jyiiga ;)

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Jyiiga

I wonder how many people will be like me....

When it comes to my enjoyment of MMO titles money is not something I worry about. If I see a bunch of bank slots, keys, cosmetic armor/weapons, dyes, etc in their cash shop and I want them. I will drop 200 dollars without flinching. This is a game I can see myself playing for a long time. 

The force is strong with that one, I agree 200%!

Check your PMs, btw, Jyiiga ;)

Personally I'm a sucker for cosmetic gear.

Originally posted by Atlan99

Interesting post by Valatar on the Guild Wars 2 Beta Forums. He breaks down some of the hidden costs of GW2.

 

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gem/The-Gem-Store-s-Grim-Math-or-Why-GW2-may-cost-220/page/1#post115334

 

 

Valatar

Welcome to Guild Wars 2, new player! We’re the fun new game where you don’t pay a monthly fee to play! But you do realize of course that we need money to keep up our servers and update the game, so there are a few modest cash store items to help cover our costs. But it’s probably nothing that you actually need, so don’t pay any attention to it!

How do you like the classes? They’re all great fun, aren’t they? We bet you’d like to play them all! But not so fast, you only have five character slots. If you want the other three, you’ll just need to make a one-time payment in the cash shop to unlock them. It’s only 800 gems per slot, so for only 2400 gems you’ll be on your way!

What’s that, adventurer? Your bags are full? Why shucks, have we got a deal for you! You have seven bag slots, but we locked three of them so you’d have room to grow! For an insignificant 400 gems, you can unlock one bag slot on one character. Of course, if you have eight characters, that’s twenty-four slots, but hey, what’s a little 9600 gems between friends for the luxury of being able to carry things?

Oh, you wanted to actually be able to store things? Like, in a bank? Well other MMOGs make you spend nasty gold to have more than 30 bank slots, but not us! You can just buy them with gems! We’ve helped you out by making the sky the limit and locked a whopping seven bank expansions at 600 gems each, so you can feel extra accomplished when you pull out your credit card to pay for the 4200 gems for that.

tl;dr:
At the current listed rates, you have to pay 16,200 gems to have eight characters with unlocked inventory and bank slots in GW2. With the assumption that the conversion rate is $1=100 gems, that’s $162 dollars above and beyond the box cost of the game. Edit: The actual gem price is believed to be $5=400 gems, which makes the cost $202.50 for those 16200 gems. A year’s subscription to WoW is $156 if purchased in six-month blocks, making it ironically cheaper to play a year of WoW than a year of GW2.

Bear in mind that I’m ignoring vanity items, convenience items, and keys in this tally. Those are all entirely optional, and a player can take or leave those without any particular penalty. I’m focusing entirely on the one universal constant of any MMOG: storage. It’s the thing that is indisputably vital for every player, that nobody can afford to be without, and everybody absolutely requires. Anyone who doesn’t purchase bag and bank space is going to be regretting it, deeply and often. I don’t consider it optional, and doubt that anyone with any length of experience in online games would disagree with me on that.

There needs to be an alternative option to gems for purchasing in-game storage. There’s no telling what the gold value of gems will be after the game’s release, but if the beta weekend’s average around 20 silver per gem holds true, it will cost 120 gold per bank expansion and 80 gold per bag slot, which are fairly ridiculous amounts. Edit: My numbers for the silver price for gems was incorrect, see below.

Alternatively, making the bag slots an account-wide purchase rather than a per-character purchase would save the eight-character player 8400 gems, making the grand total a much more reasonable sum.

Disclaimer:
All of this hinges on beta test gem prices for cash shop items, and involves an assumption on the cash price for gems. Either of those two things may change before release. My goal in bringing this to peoples’ attention is not to incite panicked nerd rage, but to make people aware of the potential cash cost in GW2’s gem store model of business, and the fact that it may be no less expensive than other games with monthly fees.

LoL, Want a better game? Pay more! fact of life my friend, you dont HAVE to buy anything, its a choice.  people nowadays really cry over everything.. "Oh no, they are making money from me!" they tyrants!

Originally posted by Siphaed

 

This arguement is complete and utter bunk.   These are from anti-cash shop people that have a sole objective of finding the worse parts and being counter of it.

 In-game gold can be used to purchase gems.

 That small fact is what debunks the other side's arguement that these are "hiddent costs" and "required" to get things.  In fact, we already know the conversion rate based on Beta Weekend:   100 GEMS =5-7 silver, depending on the day of fluctuation.   Based on that, for example, the extra character slots would cost only 1.2-1.68 gold for a player.

 Fact is that the game can be 100% Free-2-Play (after one-time purchase of the box/digital client first) without a player ever paying another dime.  However, if a player chooses to spend the money on those instead of trying to progress the game and earn it through quests and mob grind, that's the choice that A-Net provided.

The price ratio of gems to in game currency is not fixed. It is subject to inflation, as well as supply and demand.

It would be impossible to beta test this properly. Unless you could find a supply of people willing to buy gems for beta-testing purposes. Knowing that all progress and gem purchases would be wiped.

Originally posted by Atlan99

The price ratio of gems to in game currency is not fixed. It is subject to inflation, as well as supply and demand.

It would be impossible to beta test this properly. Unless you could find a supply of people willing to buy gems for beta-testing purposes. Knowing that all progress and gem purchases would be wiped.

 

Actually it would be very easy to test it.

You have your first set price.

Inject a set amount of gems into the economy, say...10,000

note the ratio change

Inject another 10,000

note the ration change

inject another 10,000

if the ratio of change is the same...and it can all be done IN HOUSE by creating characters and giving them gems which I am sure that is exactly what they did. It needs to be controlled to get an accurate sample. If you have players do it and not know what if anything they are doing with the gems you will not be able to get an accurate reading.

Originally posted by jtcgs

 

Actually it would be very easy to test it.

You have your first set price.

Inject a set amount of gems into the economy, say...10,000

note the ratio change

Inject another 10,000

note the ration change

inject another 10,000

if the ratio of change is the same...and it can all be done IN HOUSE by creating characters and giving them gems which I am sure that is exactly what they did. It needs to be controlled to get an accurate sample. If you have players do it and not know what if anything they are doing with the gems you will not be able to get an accurate reading.

It would be inaccurate. As people would not be using their own money.

The test you propose would do nothing. You would giving people money that they may or may not normally purchase. You would be creating artificial conditions, that would not be reflected when the game went live.

You can sugar coat it all you want, but cash shop = frustration.

If you don't spend, you are frustrated to see other players going faster and easier.

If you don't spend enough, the same.

If you spend a lot, then you are frustrated because you spent too much, then you spend less, but just to see other players going faster again.

Originally posted by Atlan99

It would be inaccurate. As people would not be using their own money.

The test you propose would do nothing. You would giving people money that they may or may not normally purchase. You would be creating artificial conditions, that would not be reflected when the game went live.

Actually it would be 100% accurate in controlled conditions because that is the only way you could possibly figure out the question at hand...the gem inflation ratio.

If the amount of gems in the market sets the ratio you need to figure out WHEN the ratio is effected at each level of inflation.

that is the thing that cannot be figured out in an uncontrolled enviorment because it would be extremely difficult to not only know how many gems are out there, but that it stays at that level. If you have "players" doing it, how can you keep them from spending the gems?

By being able to place a set amount of gems in the market you can know right then and there if ratio changes and then place another set amount of gems in to keep increasing it until it changes again. it is only by doing it this way that we, or Anet can know ahead of time what the inflation ratios are.

Originally posted by Metentso

You can sugar coat it all you want, but cash shop = frustration.

If you don't spend, you are frustrated to see other players going faster and easier.

If you don't spend enough, the same.

If you spend a lot, then you are frustrated because you spent too much, then you spend less, but just to see other players going faster again.

 

Same can be said about no cash shop.

If you don't spend enough time playing, you are frustrated to see other players going faster.

If you spend a lot, then you are frustrated because you now have a second job, the game, then you spend less time because you are sick of playing...and other players are going faster than you again.

Same poop, different pile

I can spend money and get to max level in 2 days instead of not spending money and getting there in 3!  Oh the horror of it all.

Originally posted by Metentso

You can sugar coat it all you want, but cash shop = frustration.

If you don't spend, you are frustrated to see other players going faster and easier.

If you don't spend enough, the same.

If you spend a lot, then you are frustrated because you spent too much, then you spend less, but just to see other players going faster again.

 

I could care less how many character slots some other dude has, or how many extra bag slots he has haha.

Why are you focusing on someone elses fun in game instead of your own? They arent waiving their round thick ass bags in your face are they? You CANT EVEN SEE THEM!!!

Sorry but I dont agree with you at all, and I think your being childish. If your frustrated over someone having more bags in game then you why dont you get pissed off everyday when you see someone with abetter car than you? You must live a terrible life if thats the case.

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by Atlan99

It would be inaccurate. As people would not be using their own money.

The test you propose would do nothing. You would giving people money that they may or may not normally purchase. You would be creating artificial conditions, that would not be reflected when the game went live.

Actually it would be 100% accurate in controlled conditions because that is the only way you could possibly figure out the question at hand...the gem inflation ratio.

If the amount of gems in the market sets the ratio you need to figure out WHEN the ratio is effected at each level of inflation.

that is the thing that cannot be figured out in an uncontrolled enviorment because it would be extremely difficult to not only know how many gems are out there, but that it stays at that level. If you have "players" doing it, how can you keep them from spending the gems?

By being able to place a set amount of gems in the market you can know right then and there if ratio changes and then place another set amount of gems in to keep increasing it until it changes again. it is only by doing it this way that we, or Anet can know ahead of time what the inflation ratios are.

Uhm no, it would only be accurate for that single instance. You can not predict in any way how much people are going to spend and as such derive any corrolation from that. People will spend other peopls money without a thought, but when it comes to spending their own it's a completely different story. Also there will always be extremes that a controlled enviroment can't predict.

Facts are simple if you don't mind cash shops play a game with cash shops if they bother you that bad find a game with a monthly sub or is f2p, thats all trying to change people opinions in a forum site is an exercise in futility

Originally posted by jtcgs 

Same can be said about no cash shop.

If you don't spend enough time playing, you are frustrated to see other players going faster.

If you spend a lot, then you are frustrated because you now have a second job, the game, then you spend less time because you are sick of playing...and other players are going faster than you again.

Same poop, different pile

I can spend money and get to max level in 2 days instead of not spending money and getting there in 3!  Oh the horror of it all.

Not really.   The rate is the same for everyone and only the amount of time a player chooses to contribute determines when they reach the end.  

I will purchase the extra character slots, not because i'm going to level all of them but because I can experiment with each class in the structured PVP almost instantly, 1 to 2 characters will be going through all of the pve content the others are just my pvp hubs, so it will cost me a bit more to play than someone who doesnt purchase those slot, but hey, thats MY choice and thats what the cash shop seems to me so far.

If I were to see something that I didnt like in the cash shop, I would just not get it, unless its gamebreaking. Bottom line is the game appears completly enjoyable and playable without buying from the cash shop, once it is not is when a game is to cash shop heavy.

OP, you can't criticize Arenanet! Anything they do is FINE! It doesn't matter that companies which have charged for bank/bag/character slots before (without a box price even) have been torn to pieces by many of these very same people!

If you call something they do into question, just remember this simple formula:

Arenanet = Oh, they're doing that? Well, they gotta make money somehow (even though there was a box price), and anyone who doesn't pay is a freeloader!

Anyone else = WHAT?!? They're doing THAT? OMFG THOSE GREEDY GODDAMN MOTHER****ERS!!!!! BOYCOTT! BOYCOTT! OUTRAGE!

Arenanet are geniuses of the highest order, and everything they do is a product of that genius, and as such is beyond contestation by lowly mortals such as ourselves.

And if you can't detect the sarcasm here, you are officially brain dead.

Interesting to see all these people whining because GW2 has a cash shop, and specificly those that are intending to play TSW, and those that play WoW and those that play LoTRO, DDO, RoM, Eve to name just a few, but find it totally acceptable to pay subs and have a cash shop.  and you know who you are because Ive seen your previous posts and your profile pages that  tells me that you play them games.

Talk about having double standards and being contradictive.

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by jtcgs 

Same can be said about no cash shop.

If you don't spend enough time playing, you are frustrated to see other players going faster.

If you spend a lot, then you are frustrated because you now have a second job, the game, then you spend less time because you are sick of playing...and other players are going faster than you again.

Same poop, different pile

I can spend money and get to max level in 2 days instead of not spending money and getting there in 3!  Oh the horror of it all.

 

Not really.   The rate is the same for everyone and only the amount of time a player chooses to contribute determines when they reach the end.  

EVERYTHING THAT CAN BE BOUGHT IN THE CASH SHOP CAN ALSO BE FOUND IN THE GAME WORLD!!

I played all weekend and resceived keys, xp boosts, karma boosts, dyes......you guys are making more of this than there is

Oh look, another gem shop scare-mongering thread disguised as 'concern'

Everything in the gem shop is easily ignorable to those of us who don't want to pay real money. If there is something we want in there, it'll just cost some gold. No problems there.

Nothing in the gem shop is needed to be competitive. Absolutely nothing.

If you don't want to pay real money beyond the box/digital price, you have absolutely no obligation to.

If you feel you do, then you either have addiction issues, or a loose wallet. Either suits a business just fine. After all, they're not just in this to make a fun game. Money must be made to profit. That's how a business stays afloat to continue their practice. Workers have to feed themselves and their families you know. They can't do that if the company flops.