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Originally posted by Mephster

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Originally posted by MMOExposed

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Originally posted by Mephster
Well look at it this way, 5+ years later after the original game releases people still came in droves to play Guild Wars. I suspect it will be the same thing for Guild Wars 2 if not better.

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GW1 was a ghost town before the HoM hype info came out regarding GW2

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Could have fooled me been playing it for quite awhile now. People are still all over the place.

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Don't worry about mmoexposed, he hates all things guild war, just comes in to gw2 threads to make troll posts to start arguments. He must be starved for attention.

Originally posted by Saxx0n

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Mephster
Well look at it this way, 5+ years later after the original game releases people still came in droves to play Guild Wars. I suspect it will be the same thing for Guild Wars 2 if not better.

GW1 was a ghost town before the HoM hype info came out regarding GW2

LOL! ....love this.

Originally posted by kanezfan

 

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Originally posted by Mephster

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Originally posted by MMOExposed

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Originally posted by Mephster
Well look at it this way, 5+ years later after the original game releases people still came in droves to play Guild Wars. I suspect it will be the same thing for Guild Wars 2 if not better.

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GW1 was a ghost town before the HoM hype info came out regarding GW2

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Could have fooled me been playing it for quite awhile now. People are still all over the place.

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Don't worry about mmoexposed, he hates all things guild war, just comes in to gw2 threads to make troll posts to start arguments. He must be starved for attention.

yeah hes pretty much mmoclueless, should probably change his name too.

His name makes me think he's naked.

I played about 38 hours over the course of the WBE. I had intended to do crafting, PVP and WvW, on top of the PvE, but never did get around to any of it. Even with the limited access to only some of the zones from level 1-25, I ended my experience feeling I had only sampled a small portion of the content that was available.

A typical beta weekend for other games has usually seen me fit in about 6-16 hours, usually long enough to get a solid taste of the game, while also realizing that I really don't want to have to retrace my steps again at launch. With GW2, not only could I not get enough, I look forward to re-experience the same ground when the game goes live.

This is the first MMO beta since the WoW beta that has given me this kind of beta experience.

GW2 has a bit of a learning curve. Not only for learing a new profession, new skills, new features and new mechanics, but also to unlearn habits from other MMOs that just don't translate into GW2. However, I think most people who stick with it will start to gel with the game the more they play and retention rates will be huge. Add in the Buy to Play business model, which allows people to play as much, or as little, as they wish on a day to day basis, with out worrying about justifying a subscription fee and I see GW2 as a game that will snowball over time.

There is a very good chance that GW2 will be one of those very rare MMORPGs that continues to grow customers substantially over time, while having a very large portion of customers playing at least casually, month to month, over the long term.

I think of this GW2 like league of legends as long as players enjoy the structured Pvp people will keep playing. Also, you do not have to grind up another character just to pvp with it. This will enable everyone to easily swap proffessions if they get bored of one. I was mainly looking foward to the PvE stuff in beta but structured pvp was what I mainly did this weekend. 

Even if you master one of the many spec in pvp their are still so many others to try. The skill needed to use builds greatly varies. 8 professions, +10 30pt dual trait specs, and multiple weapons that each class can try in pvp. I only got to try a few of the elemental spec and I did not have enough time to perfect my builds or playstyle. This was one of the best elementalist pvp videos I found Xlayer Elementalist PvP. The video is sped up so you can see the action faster. D/D spec elementalist is a hard build to pull off in pvp. 

Originally posted by allegria

a. I have not tried Gw2 yet but anxious to do so.

b. have read quite a bit about the structure/gameplay etc...

For those more experienced or in the know, what do you think about GW2 will hold people ? 

The obvious that comes to mind is the WvWvW stuff, but being a "separate game" I question how much personal interest I would have in that...

Love to hear others thoughts on "retention" and things GW2 brings that will keep people around after they "see the content".

A lot of people downplay it, but the original Guild Wars is actually very successful. It's still around to this day (~7 years after it's release).

The point about 'WvWvW being a separate game', I don't think really has any negative impact on the subs. That statement basically points out part of how this game is all about choice. You aren't forced to do anything. You can lvl in WvW, and in PvE. You can choose to try and play the game like a standard quest grind, or you can explore and see what hidden events & things you can find. You can choose to ignore the PvP aspect of the game entirely, and focus on crafting / playing the market. There's a LOT to do in the game, and none of it is forced on you.

That's the beauty of this game, and it will hold a lot of people. I have no doubt about that. I can't comment on how many, but I would be VERY surprised if it wasn't at least 1million +.

Now, the flip side to this, is because the game is so open, there is very little handholding. This is a potential problem, because some people have shown that they really need this, even if they don't like to admit it. For example, some people were playing this game in beta as a strictly lvl / quest grind. They felt they had to stick to the 'hearts that are my same lvl', and only do those events. These same people didn't do a whole lot of exploration (of any kind), and many missed key parts of the game, through most of their play experience. Some went for hours without realizing they had new skills unlocked, or that they weren't wearing armor, etc.

Because of this, some people will have a rough time w/ the game. I think when you couple the explorative nature of the game, with the challenging combat, it will ultimately make this game harder to swallow for the average gamer. It'll still be very popular, as was the first game, but a lot of the 'elitist' criticisms comes from the fact that both games are very challenging, and are not as friendly to more casual players as most MMOs are. There is definitely a skill curve.

I'd pretty high.  It has high replay value and the PvP will keep alot of people too.

But I think the better question is how many people buy the x-pac since this is no a sub game.

Originally posted by colddog04

 

His name makes me think he's naked.

Oh great, thanks for the visual....now I need to bash myself with a hammer to try to forget that.

Anyway. I imagine that many raiding folks either won't purchase or will leave within 6 months, unless they are really looking for something different. There really isn't much of a carrot stick approach to PvE. If the PvP is balanced, I imagine that this will be THE place for it. Can effectively PvP from the word go, and can do nothing but PvP for the entire career of your toon, with the exception of the starting tutorial event (which lasts maybe 15 min).

I could see achievers and explorers enjoying the game as well. Getting every area to 100%, running all over finding neat challenges.

Additionally, you can't discount the folks who raid during the week and GW2 on the weekends (I personally have 2-3 friends who have this intention). So it could even be a "weekend warrior" type of game.

Originally posted by allegria

a. I have not tried Gw2 yet but anxious to do so.

b. have read quite a bit about the structure/gameplay etc...

For those more experienced or in the know, what do you think about GW2 will hold people ? 

The obvious that comes to mind is the WvWvW stuff, but being a "separate game" I question how much personal interest I would have in that...

Love to hear others thoughts on "retention" and things GW2 brings that will keep people around after they "see the content".

You know, I would have to say the retention will be effected by the large number of different things to do.  I think all games try to do this a bit, but I think GW2 has this particularly in the bag.  If you like one thing, you can do that one thing, and this in no way hiders your enjoyment of the game.

Explorers will love this game, ask an explorer why, as I am not purely an explorer and cannot adequately explain how awesome GW2 is for explorers.

Completionists will have a large number of different things to do one their characters to satisfy their urges, such as the achievements, world completion points, and gathering the gear that they like the most.

Mob killers should like that the combat is engaging and fun (once you get the hang of it...and please, don't bring tera into this.  They are different systems, some like one over the other for whatever reason, and thats a fine opinion.)  They have large bosses to kill, and some players needs are that simple.  Give me something fun to do.

PvP is great, and the fact that you don't have to PvE to do PvP is also great.

Group play (dungeons) should prove to be fun for the people who like having themselves challenged while playing in a group.  Well...explorable mode should at least.

Story...you may like it, you may not, it doesn't have to be your thing, and you can choose to just skip the cutscenes if that is your thing.  I loved the personal story, especially for the charr.  I don't mind the dialogue or the VO, I just love the connection I get for my character and the NPCs around me.

I could go on, but It is all about how you can find the thing you like to do, or do all the things you like to do.  This game is going to be an altaholic's dream (or nightmare if you are short on time).  Not having a sub helps.

I see retention working very well for GW2.

The beauty of Buy 2 Play is that one can put it down if it gets boring or to play something else, and then come back at any time and pick it up again.  Given the response to the pre-purchase campaign, I doubt that it could ever die off in significant numbers.

Originally posted by RizelStar

If we pretend they won't add nothing to the game, it won't have years of retention in the PVE area, that's if we just say they won't add nothing to the game.

There is plenty to keep me retained but that's [me] and not [you] so it depends on what you look for, I've decided that it'll be my MMO that first place a home in, since it's a themebox and I'll just wait for a sandpark to come out for example ArchAge which will be atleast a year or 2 I think, but who knows A-NET might bring a more "end game" incintive  rather thanraids, I mean they luckily done it with the scale down feature meaning every thing they add they can add to the entire game for everyone to enjoy rather than having to grind to it. Holiday events and GW 1 methods.

After all they copied GW 1 more than any game, I can elaborate if one wants me too, I never thought about it myself until Torv said something but I also realised where they [most] likely got their ideas from PVE wise.

Hope this helps :/

I like your terms !

Sandpark and Themebox !

Just a final note.. ( and i am well aware of GW1 success, it was a huge hit for sure although I didnt like it ).

The reason I ask this is, i am an old mmo type where my MMOs were supposed to be worlds ( yeah, long time ago ) or inherently complex enough for a long term stay. From what I hear, gw2 solves at least one of those problems ( living breathing world) very well...

However what I am curious about is, of course with no subscription ( maybe cash shop does this ) will there be frequent content updates in the old style ala RIFT / DDO or will this be more like the old GW1 model where its expansion based stuff.

Originally posted by BarCrow

Originally posted by Saxx0n

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Mephster
Well look at it this way, 5+ years later after the original game releases people still came in droves to play Guild Wars. I suspect it will be the same thing for Guild Wars 2 if not better.

GW1 was a ghost town before the HoM hype info came out regarding GW2

LOL! ....love this.

*giggles* me too. Debbie Downer.

Originally posted by allegria

Just a final note.. ( and i am well aware of GW1 success, it was a huge hit for sure although I didnt like it ).

The reason I ask this is, i am an old mmo type where my MMOs were supposed to be worlds ( yeah, long time ago ) or inherently complex enough for a long term stay. From what I hear, gw2 solves at least one of those problems ( living breathing world) very well...

However what I am curious about is, of course with no subscription ( maybe cash shop does this ) will there be frequent content updates in the old style ala RIFT / DDO or will this be more like the old GW1 model where its expansion based stuff.

In addition to the expansions there will be continual content added to the game in the form of more and more events, and they'll do these without telling the players to basically keep surprising them with new things appearing in the world. Not only that, but they'll be doing this in all zones, not only max level zones, so you'll have reason to go back and experience those zones again for the first time.

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

Originally posted by allegria

a. I have not tried Gw2 yet but anxious to do so.

b. have read quite a bit about the structure/gameplay etc...

For those more experienced or in the know, what do you think about GW2 will hold people ? 

The obvious that comes to mind is the WvWvW stuff, but being a "separate game" I question how much personal interest I would have in that...

Love to hear others thoughts on "retention" and things GW2 brings that will keep people around after they "see the content".

I really don't think it will hold people PVE wise. I think it will end up being a side game that people play when they have some free time or want something different after they have completed the majority of the events a few times on some alts. I just didn't see something that different in the dynamic events. I don't see what would keep people playing the events over and over when there isn't a treadmill of rewards. Sure the events were fun the first time, but I don't think they are so fun that I would want to keep doing them too many times. Also, even though it was kind of neat to see people working together, the soft grouping really kills some of the social aspects of the game. Since you don't really have to group in the traditional sense, people don't really communicate......though this might be a plus for those who like to solo everything and not have to directly interact with the people around them. The one meta event I experienced also was a bit of a let down as it was more of a spam fest zerg as opposed to a coordinated effort. I think the PVP people will love the game though.......  Anyway, this is just my opinion for what it is worth.

But you'll do the same raid over and over again? AT least with dynamic events you can produce various diffferent outcomes and there are hundreds of them. 

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

Originally posted by allegria

a. I have not tried Gw2 yet but anxious to do so.

b. have read quite a bit about the structure/gameplay etc...

For those more experienced or in the know, what do you think about GW2 will hold people ? 

The obvious that comes to mind is the WvWvW stuff, but being a "separate game" I question how much personal interest I would have in that...

Love to hear others thoughts on "retention" and things GW2 brings that will keep people around after they "see the content".

I really don't think it will hold people PVE wise. I think it will end up being a side game that people play when they have some free time or want something different after they have completed the majority of the events a few times on some alts. I just didn't see something that different in the dynamic events. I don't see what would keep people playing the events over and over when there isn't a treadmill of rewards. Sure the events were fun the first time, but I don't think they are so fun that I would want to keep doing them too many times. Also, even though it was kind of neat to see people working together, the soft grouping really kills some of the social aspects of the game. Since you don't really have to group in the traditional sense, people don't really communicate......though this might be a plus for those who like to solo everything and not have to directly interact with the people around them. The one meta event I experienced also was a bit of a let down as it was more of a spam fest zerg as opposed to a coordinated effort. I think the PVP people will love the game though.......  Anyway, this is just my opinion for what it is worth.

Whats keeping you from grouping in the "traditional sense"? You can still do it and communicate. People keep picking the game apart because it's different but that doesn't mean you have to stop all your traditional play styles. 

Originally posted by dontadow

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

Originally posted by allegria

a. I have not tried Gw2 yet but anxious to do so.

b. have read quite a bit about the structure/gameplay etc...

For those more experienced or in the know, what do you think about GW2 will hold people ? 

The obvious that comes to mind is the WvWvW stuff, but being a "separate game" I question how much personal interest I would have in that...

Love to hear others thoughts on "retention" and things GW2 brings that will keep people around after they "see the content".

I really don't think it will hold people PVE wise. I think it will end up being a side game that people play when they have some free time or want something different after they have completed the majority of the events a few times on some alts. I just didn't see something that different in the dynamic events. I don't see what would keep people playing the events over and over when there isn't a treadmill of rewards. Sure the events were fun the first time, but I don't think they are so fun that I would want to keep doing them too many times. Also, even though it was kind of neat to see people working together, the soft grouping really kills some of the social aspects of the game. Since you don't really have to group in the traditional sense, people don't really communicate......though this might be a plus for those who like to solo everything and not have to directly interact with the people around them. The one meta event I experienced also was a bit of a let down as it was more of a spam fest zerg as opposed to a coordinated effort. I think the PVP people will love the game though.......  Anyway, this is just my opinion for what it is worth.

But you'll do the same raid over and over again? AT least with dynamic events you can produce various diffferent outcomes and there are hundreds of them. 

I think it unfair to just dismiss the smaller beginner dynamic events.  Those events were zerg fest at first but as the population spread out, they became more challenging. 

You also have the larger and more complex events such as the dragon at the Pax and you will have dungeons with 4 different modes.   Others have said there will be at least 10 dungeons at launch.  If that is true, GW2 will launch with more PVE content that most MMOs launch with.

But honestly, no game has PVE content to support players.  Even WOW has players that wander to try other MMO's while they wait for the next update.  I think we are long past the days where one game is going to engross us year round....hence f2p movement.

Originally posted by Amjoco

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

Originally posted by allegria

a. I have not tried Gw2 yet but anxious to do so.

b. have read quite a bit about the structure/gameplay etc...

For those more experienced or in the know, what do you think about GW2 will hold people ? 

The obvious that comes to mind is the WvWvW stuff, but being a "separate game" I question how much personal interest I would have in that...

Love to hear others thoughts on "retention" and things GW2 brings that will keep people around after they "see the content".

I really don't think it will hold people PVE wise. I think it will end up being a side game that people play when they have some free time or want something different after they have completed the majority of the events a few times on some alts. I just didn't see something that different in the dynamic events. I don't see what would keep people playing the events over and over when there isn't a treadmill of rewards. Sure the events were fun the first time, but I don't think they are so fun that I would want to keep doing them too many times. Also, even though it was kind of neat to see people working together, the soft grouping really kills some of the social aspects of the game. Since you don't really have to group in the traditional sense, people don't really communicate......though this might be a plus for those who like to solo everything and not have to directly interact with the people around them. The one meta event I experienced also was a bit of a let down as it was more of a spam fest zerg as opposed to a coordinated effort. I think the PVP people will love the game though.......  Anyway, this is just my opinion for what it is worth.

Whats keeping you from grouping in the "traditional sense"? You can still do it and communicate. People keep picking the game apart because it's different but that doesn't mean you have to stop all your traditional play styles. 

Communication in MMOs is overrated anyway. I don't really have anything to say to most people I PUG with. Unless someone is doing something stupid.

What this game needs is /say and chat bubbles. That's it. Local chat has a much bigger area so the people chatting in it are not really in your event "group."

One thing I noticed is that because the game revolves around cooperation, people are much nicer and helpful. They go out of their way to resurect your character, even risking the death of their own. They come to your aid when you're fighting a particularly tough mob. This game doesn't need grouping in a traditional sense in order to facilitate community building, it does that on it's own already just based on how the game is set up.