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General Discussion  » GW2 will mean the end of the subscription based MMO

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152 posts found
  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

5/01/12 2:50:12 PM#121
Originally posted by Hurvart
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Fadedbomb

No, no GW2 will NOT be the "end of subscription based MMOs". They've got a PayToWin cash-shop, and those never go over well. (in case you're wondering, they have xp boosts & chest keys that can't be earned in-game. You're exchanging RL currency for ADVANTAGES over other people...not cool ANET.)

 

I haven't seen a single thing in GW2 yet that I'd be willing to drop a subscription MMO for. Plus, if GW1 is any indication, Buy-To-Play doesn't keep enough content rolling long enough to keep most people interested. So :/

Bad post is bad.

A.) You can earn chests and their keys in game.  By spending gold for gems, you can also get XP boosts without paying a dime.  Conclusion: You're wrong.

B.) GW1 had constant updates and 3 expansions, as many as WoW has had so far, plenty of content without a subscription fee to fool people into spending unnecessary money.  Conclusion: You're wrong again.

Please, if you're going to spread misinformation........... well, don't.

The problem is that we dont know how much gold we will need after release and at higher levels. Or how long it will take to farm that gold. If it takes more time to farm enough gold to buy the xp-potion than the time we can save if we use the xp-potion it will be pointless to buy it for gold. And a lot of players will not want to farm gold at all. Personally I think the gold I get when playing normally and when Im doing things I enjoy will have to be enough. If I need more gold than that I will have to buy it for real money. Farming and grinding is not my thing...

I got an experience boost on kills (1 hr duration) from a mystic chest I opened with a key that dropped in game. Never thought to use the boost. Never cared. You almost forget to level aside from checking to see if you have more skill points or trait points to spend. You just play.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  adam_nox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2087

5/01/12 4:06:03 PM#122

My point is simple, you are going to pay either way.  So you need to do a fair comparison instead of pretending like GW2 is some sort of revolutionary B2P with no strings attached.

I think when you do a real comparison, you can see how subs are much better.  If you really like a game, fifteen dollars a month is a bargain.  You don't have to put up with a freebie community (what you saw in BWE are people who paid 60 dollars just to play a few days, so in other words, the opposite of what release will be like).  You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold and xp and whatever else they decide to put in there, and believe me, they will put more.

TL:DR: The OP is right, P2W will be the new standard :)

  wowfan1996

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/09
Posts: 741

5/01/12 4:45:27 PM#123


Originally posted by adam_nox
You don't have to put up with a freebie community

While I was always able to join nice and friendly guilds, I never found the majority of people in P2P communities really likable. Trolls, elitists, noobs, annoying kids, wackos, you name it. On the other hand, I played a couple of F2P games, met quite some nice people there.


Originally posted by adam_nox
You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold

Yeah, all those gold selling sites are a figment of our imagination...

MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  Ginaz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1726

5/01/12 8:00:09 PM#124
Another GW2 "fan" that thinks this game is the Robot Jesus of MMOs.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  mmoseller888

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 31

5/01/12 8:08:26 PM#125
Originally posted by adam_nox

My point is simple, you are going to pay either way.  So you need to do a fair comparison instead of pretending like GW2 is some sort of revolutionary B2P with no strings attached.

I think when you do a real comparison, you can see how subs are much better.  If you really like a game, fifteen dollars a month is a bargain.  You don't have to put up with a freebie community (what you saw in BWE are people who paid 60 dollars just to play a few days, so in other words, the opposite of what release will be like).  You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold and xp and whatever else they decide to put in there, and believe me, they will put more.

TL:DR: The OP is right, P2W will be the new standard :)

ur agrument is weak b/c lotr aoc eq2 aion went f2p, swg warhammer vanguard darkfall mortal all tanked, sub game doesnt mean its better game period. 

  supbro

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 350

5/01/12 8:13:53 PM#126

GW2 crushes any current MMO out there and ITS FREE TO PLAY.

 

WHY WOULD PAY A MONTHLY FEE FOR A LESSER PRODUCT? Think about it.

WoW has alot to be worried about. GW2 will take most of its western audience garanteed. And Tera? well no one cares about Tera since in tanked in Korea and has 0 endgame. SWOTR is already on the rails. GW2 is a clear  future #1.

 

 

GW2 the future of MMO gaming

  adam_nox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/31/06
Posts: 2087

5/01/12 8:14:33 PM#127
Originally posted by mmoseller888
Originally posted by adam_nox

My point is simple, you are going to pay either way.  So you need to do a fair comparison instead of pretending like GW2 is some sort of revolutionary B2P with no strings attached.

I think when you do a real comparison, you can see how subs are much better.  If you really like a game, fifteen dollars a month is a bargain.  You don't have to put up with a freebie community (what you saw in BWE are people who paid 60 dollars just to play a few days, so in other words, the opposite of what release will be like).  You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold and xp and whatever else they decide to put in there, and believe me, they will put more.

TL:DR: The OP is right, P2W will be the new standard :)

ur agrument is weak b/c lotr aoc eq2 aion went f2p, swg warhammer vanguard darkfall mortal all tanked, sub game doesnt mean its better game period. 

yes, bad games generally are f2p.  at least if I'm interpreting your attempt at english lol.

  Bad.dog

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1143

5/01/12 8:37:30 PM#128
Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

" Along with TSW and TERA."

 

except that,if you look up korean mmos.which is what Tera is,i doubt many people will want to play gw2 over it

 

american mmos,yeah.....casuals r us

 

korean mmos,i doubt your average casual will last a day in one.and this is coming from someone who played korean mmos before i started playing american ones

its kinda funny i actually saw people in swtor general chat on the fleet in my server talking about tera.will be funny when they dont even play it over a day when they relize that korean mmos arent like your average casual mmo

 

 

Didn't this game allready flop in Korea ?...so we are talking about a Korean game that even the Koreans don't like? Now tell who is suppose to like this game besides trolls and perverts?

  Jaylanonyous

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/11
Posts: 31

5/01/12 8:45:06 PM#129

Honestly I think the B2P model and the F2P model generate more money than the Sub. Look at league of legends for example. Sure alot of people wont spend money to buy the costumes or champions. But enough people do, to make up for the people who don't.

 

So we will probably see more of this in the future. I prefer the Monthly Sub, honestly. I spend less and feel as if because they are getting a steady stream of money, they are more likely to make new content. If they care about the game that is. Rift is a good example. I doubt they would make much money if they went F2P, but with the steady stream they pumped out alot of content.

 

Having a sub and cash shop.. WOW.. Is just greedy

 

 

Also, i dont even consider GW2 much of a MMO and more of a FPS MMO hybrid. I know everyone will disagree, but the way the PVP works is what makes it less of a MMO for me.

  Bad.dog

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1143

5/01/12 8:46:01 PM#130
Originally posted by adam_nox

My point is simple, you are going to pay either way.  So you need to do a fair comparison instead of pretending like GW2 is some sort of revolutionary B2P with no strings attached.

I think when you do a real comparison, you can see how subs are much better.  If you really like a game, fifteen dollars a month is a bargain.  You don't have to put up with a freebie community (what you saw in BWE are people who paid 60 dollars just to play a few days, so in other words, the opposite of what release will be like).  You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold and xp and whatever else they decide to put in there, and believe me, they will put more.

TL:DR: The OP is right, P2W will be the new standard :)

See the problem I have is I think the BWE was almost worth the price of $ 60...when compared to pieces of shit I've played since leaving WOW in 2007 ...this list includes the likes of AOC,Warhammer,Aion and SWTOR and the ultimate crap Tera (which I couldn't play if you payed me $60 to fumble around in it for 4 hours on a weekend)

  miagisan

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 5298

5/01/12 8:54:18 PM#131
you GW2 fans are delusional.....

  Mike-McQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/05
Posts: 248

5/01/12 8:57:14 PM#132
I prefer the monthly sub with no cash shop so that everyones on equal footing. B2P is ok so far as it doesn't go too pay to win. And by too I mean more than $15 a month.

I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  Bad.dog

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1143

5/01/12 9:06:34 PM#133
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

I doubt it will.

GW2 is a very focussed game. This is what makes it so good. But that is also it's biggest drawback. It's probably the best game developed in terms of what it's designed to do. But it is NOT designed to be all things to all people. It seems that GW2 is being marketed to be Number one. Here is the problem with that. There are many facets to MMOs and the reasons people play them are numerous. Below is a list of MMO aspects some people might find lacking or not well developed in GW2.

People who like to Heal

People who like to Tank

People who like to play the economies earning gold through buying and selling

People who like a comprehensive crafting system

People who like player cities and housing

People who like progression raiding

People who like progression PVP

People who like FFA PVP

People who will not touch this game for no other reason but because it has a Cash Shop

People who like to improve their stats through better gear

People who don't like action oreiented combat

 

This is the list that is just off the top of my head. But here is the thing. It's not exclusive. There is overlap. There are people who are in multiple categories. And for those who like GW2 for what it does offer, they will buy and play GW2. For those who are also in any of the above, they will probably maintain or at some point return to their accounts in thie other games.

In short. Some will play GW2 only, A few will not play GW2 at all, Many will play GW2 alongside something else.

Strange every reason you have listed is the exact reason I'm not enjoying playing other mmo's ...not sure about housing as I only ever did that in LOTRO and to be honest it wasn't much there !!.. and I'm not sure about progression pvp ? but I'll bet there will be pretty competive pvp ladder matches if the BWE reflects the finnished product

  Bad.dog

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1143

5/01/12 9:13:41 PM#134
Originally posted by ELE3551
I prefer the monthly sub with no cash shop so that everyones on equal footing. B2P is ok so far as it doesn't go too pay to win. And by too I mean more than $15 a month.

Pay to win what?....Please will someone tell me what it is I'm going to win?...the only thing I have paid for is a game that I got my money's worth in one weekend

BWE weekend -25 hours of fun _$60 .....Saturday Round of Golf -4.5 hrs of fun _$65

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

5/01/12 10:22:08 PM#135
Originally posted by adam_nox

My point is simple, you are going to pay either way.  So you need to do a fair comparison instead of pretending like GW2 is some sort of revolutionary B2P with no strings attached.

I think when you do a real comparison, you can see how subs are much better.  If you really like a game, fifteen dollars a month is a bargain.  You don't have to put up with a freebie community (what you saw in BWE are people who paid 60 dollars just to play a few days, so in other words, the opposite of what release will be like).  You don't have some people paying more money for extra gold and xp and whatever else they decide to put in there, and believe me, they will put more.

TL:DR: The OP is right, P2W will be the new standard :)

You've failed to demonstrate anything even remotely P2W. Even the experience buffs and the like can be crafted (cooking). Guild buffs at best are defensive only and in the immediate vicinity of the structure that guild holds. Take that structure, the buff goes >poof<.

 

Buy the box, no subs, cosmetic and desirable items in the store. That's the wave of the MMO future. P2W will exist in a few F2P shooter type games, but that'll be about it.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Eir_S

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4703

GW2 socialist.

5/01/12 10:26:53 PM#136
Originally posted by Ginaz
Another GW2 "fan" that thinks this game is the Robot Jesus of MMOs.

Well maybe not, but seriously, what is or at least looks to be the "savior" of the genre?  GW2 will push things in a different direction, dare I say (IMO) the right direction.  That's not a bad thing, there are only so many games that can offer WoW mechanics before the genre stagnates (if it hasn't already).  The reason WoW is still doing so well is because it still does WoW better than its clones.  A little positivity never hurt, so I'm happy about the game because I want to see it evolve.

Will GW2 save the genre from being a profitless mess?  10 million WoW fans say "No", but what about the rest of us who eventually wanted something new or at the very least, for a company to show the dedication to change, fun, value, and their own players that ANet is?

I realize some of the fans are annoying.  They're bored but excited about the potential, but if people would look beyond forums and pissing contests, they'd see a good thing.

  Ginaz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1726

5/02/12 2:24:35 AM#137
Originally posted by Eir_S
Originally posted by Ginaz
Another GW2 "fan" that thinks this game is the Robot Jesus of MMOs.

Well maybe not, but seriously, what is or at least looks to be the "savior" of the genre?  GW2 will push things in a different direction, dare I say (IMO) the right direction.  That's not a bad thing, there are only so many games that can offer WoW mechanics before the genre stagnates (if it hasn't already).  The reason WoW is still doing so well is because it still does WoW better than its clones.  A little positivity never hurt, so I'm happy about the game because I want to see it evolve.

Will GW2 save the genre from being a profitless mess?  10 million WoW fans say "No", but what about the rest of us who eventually wanted something new or at the very least, for a company to show the dedication to change, fun, value, and their own players that ANet is?

I realize some of the fans are annoying.  They're bored but excited about the potential, but if people would look beyond forums and pissing contests, they'd see a good thing.

I'm not saying GW2 won't be good.  It probably will be and I am looking forward to it but its "fans" have been going on for years now like its the second coming of Christ and have made me much less enthused about the game and the prospect of having to play it with them.  They're the worst fanboys I've ever seen, and that includes Vanguards Vanboys and Darkfall's carebear slaying pvp Gods.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5078

5/02/12 2:35:33 AM#138


Originally posted by Baddogbill


Originally posted by GeezerGamer
I doubt it will.
GW2 is a very focussed game. This is what makes it so good. But that is also it's biggest drawback. It's probably the best game developed in terms of what it's designed to do. But it is NOT designed to be all things to all people. It seems that GW2 is being marketed to be Number one. Here is the problem with that. There are many facets to MMOs and the reasons people play them are numerous. Below is a list of MMO aspects some people might find lacking or not well developed in GW2.
People who like to Heal
People who like to Tank
People who like to play the economies earning gold through buying and selling
People who like a comprehensive crafting system
People who like player cities and housing
People who like progression raiding
People who like progression PVP
People who like FFA PVP
People who will not touch this game for no other reason but because it has a Cash Shop
People who like to improve their stats through better gear
People who don't like action oreiented combat
 
This is the list that is just off the top of my head. But here is the thing. It's not exclusive. There is overlap. There are people who are in multiple categories. And for those who like GW2 for what it does offer, they will buy and play GW2. For those who are also in any of the above, they will probably maintain or at some point return to their accounts in thie other games.
In short. Some will play GW2 only, A few will not play GW2 at all, Many will play GW2 alongside something else.


Strange every reason you have listed is the exact reason I'm not enjoying playing other mmo's ...not sure about housing as I only ever did that in LOTRO and to be honest it wasn't much there !!.. and I'm not sure about progression pvp ? but I'll bet there will be pretty competive pvp ladder matches if the BWE reflects the finnished product

I don't find it strange at all if you aren't looking for those things. GW2 is a focused game. It's going to hit it's target like a laser. But if someone want's something in that target, GW2 will most likely be the best option, If they want something else, Well, then there will have to be others. In the end, I am willing to bet the majority of GW2 players will be playing more than one game. For the exact reason you think GW2 will kill Subs it probably will do the opposite. IMO, it will allow for them more than any other game would.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Jaylanonyous

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/11
Posts: 31

5/02/12 3:30:47 AM#139

IMO GW2 will be a great game and appeal to alot of players. But also it is a step in the wrong direction for MMO's. Full action, Raiding starts at level 1 super competitive PVP is all fun. But i feel its not a MMO. I believe MMORPG's should center around Character progression, being unique in a vast world and community.  

 

All the action, and doging and pvp is fun. But I personally had more fun Sitting in one spot grinding monsters in EQ, talking to random people and making life long friends. Or going to cantinas in SWG to buff up and just socialize. 

 

It feels like MMO's are turning into more of a Hack and slash, fps hybrid in a seamless world, with instances... Everyone wants to be equal and everything balanced. If the tank and healer cant 1v1 then the game must make it so they are even. Its dumb. Most casual players are the ones who are in /g or /whisper being told they are the worst players in the world and should quit.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5078

5/02/12 12:33:10 PM#140


Originally posted by Minny
90% of all mmorpg's already have no longer a subscription fee...
 
 
But I think the OP forgot 2 things:
 
 
- the advantage of belonging to a club with a fee entrance
 
- the fact the lame developer controlled cash shop is going to be obsolete with the real money auction house in a few weeks.
 
 
 
Play to earn real money in an online game will beat anything. Just my 2 cents.
 
One of the (secrets) of a succesful MMO like Wow and EVE is the economy. Add a real money player driven AH to this and the rest will look like playing poker with fake chips.
 

That's because 90% of them sucked in their own right. Those games themselves weren't worthy of a sub regardless of industry trends.

Had SWTOR been the game it was supposed to be, I don't think this thread would be here.

There is, however, a caveat to this. In my own experience, I am finding myself suffering from the MMO repetition burnout. I just can't log into the same old games for 6-8 hrs straight anymore. I can't do it. 1-2 on a solo day, and on grouped content, Obviously, I am in it for the session, but even then I find myself wishing we'd just call it a day after several hrs. So, I can understand for some, B2P/F2P offer value. I might even find myself using the cash shop if the value is there.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

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