Trending Games | World of Warcraft | Guild Wars 2 | ArcheAge | Shroud of the Avatar

    Facebook Twitter YouTube
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:3,024,295 Users Online:0
Games:840  Posts:6,479,797
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodborne Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chroma Squad Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthlock: Festival of Magic Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Fable Legends Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Immune Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Necropolis Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Trapped Dead: Lockdown Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utherous Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles 3D Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik Discussion Forums

Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

Beta Weekend Event Reviews & Impressions (Archived)  » MMO Indoctrination and GW2's gameplay

2 Pages « 1 2 Search
39 posts found

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4915

5/01/12 7:16:10 AM#21
One of the best post BWE's I have read. Thank you! 

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.


Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4915

5/01/12 7:17:28 AM#22
Originally posted by Talin

I agree with the OP, and if there is one area I think ANET could improve it would be the tutorial. While I had fun with the tutorial, and found the starting storylines interesting, I do think they could/should spend more time acclimating the player to:

  • Dynamic event progression (show the player how these events relate in detail and explain how the rest of the world works the same way)
  • Multiple weapons/skills (I would give the player 1-2 additional weapons to familiarize themself with how weapons and skills are tied together.
  • The "downed" system; the first time players experience this they don't know what they should be doing; trying to kill something, heal themselves, etc.
For the second point, my Human Ranger was still using the starter weapon multiple levels later as he had the misfortune of not obtaining any weapon drops he could use and I did not see an obvious vendor for these outside the city.
Some of these items may be covered in the tutorial somewhat, but I don't recall seeing a lot of detail.
My overall impressions remain very positive, and while many people will read about the points above pre-release, that doesn't mean the game shouldn't make efforts to introduce people to these systems in a controlled manner.

I especially agree with you on the downed system. It's not like you have time to study it and read what each action does.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.


Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/03
Posts: 513

5/01/12 7:28:46 AM#23
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Valkaern

It's *very* clear from the concerns of those who haven't actually played that it's hard for people to break out of what they've been conditioned to believe, but that's understandable, it's a lot to take in. They continually try and put mechanics of GW2 in the context of other games, and it just doesn't work like that.

In fact, one of our close gaming friends we'd spoken to over the beta weekend hadn't looked into the game much, and flat out refused to believe that there was no pure tank or healer, because in the context of other games it makes no sense. I think it's something many sceptics will just have to see for themselves, and if they choose to bypass the game based on ignorance, that's their loss. I was close to ending up in that category myself as GW1 didn't interest me whatsoever, and initially GW2 just didn't sound like my cup of tea. I'm so glad I was wrong, I've spent years moaning about how crap MMOs had become so finding fun again is something I'm not taking for granted.

The fact that you can level in your favorite area level 1-80 as a level 80 if you were so inclined, and still be faced with a challenge, earn proper XP and loot upgrades is incredible considering that future additional content doesn't need to be limited to only top end but can be placed throughout the entire game and enjoyed by players of many levels. However, I don't think people actually understand how this works, and have some misgivings due to that. The bottom line is, they without a doubt have solved *many* MMO problems that have existed since their inception, and have done away with a lot of the arbitrary nonsense and limitations we'd come to expect, so naturally some people just expecting the same old same old will be thrown off initially. 

All in all though, posts, videos, interviews, infographs and other devices have ALL been used to explain how Guild Wars 2 is different from previous MMOs, in great length, yet none of it really convinced me until I tried it. It took me actually being in game for it all to click. I wasn't convinced personally until then, despite having seen countless videos and demonstrations.

Glad you had fun! And I completely agree with your post.

There's a lot there, and it's easy to miss it if you don't keep an eye out for it. Hell, some of the stuff I mentioned in the OP I also was guilty of. My first beta, I really wanted to try out a greatsword. But for the life of me, one wouldn't drop, ever. It wasn't until I rolled a human ele, that I realized... holy crap! you can just buy the weapon you want. Duh! I felt like an idiot, but in a good way.

I also agree with you that even watching all the videos on the game, just don't really prepare you for it all that much. It really requires hands-on experience to get a hang of. I know, for instance, I was expecting to just be able to dodge w/e attacks I thought would give me issues. To my surprise, it's a bit more complicated than that, and I spent a long time dodging poorly, only to use my my endurance pool, lol.

Because a lot of aspects of this game just don't make sense in the context of MMOs, some people are trying to force these aspects into the context they are used to. It's human nature to do so. Hopefully with a little more tweaking, Anet can help show some of these people what they are missing / doing wrong, so they don't have as frustrating a first experience with the game.

I agree, we were constantly finding details that we didn't know about even into our twenties. While we enjoy that aspect of learning a new game, it might make sense for them to introduce knowledge of these elements earlier on. For example, many of the functions of abilities weren't clearly explained anywhere that I'd seen, and it was only through the context of other familiar abilities that I could decipher them. And while I'm comfortable enough to go out and play with what I know and with what I've learned, I know for a fact that there are a ton of complicated intricacies I have yet to fully understand. I'd assumed some things based on previous games and was flat out wrong.

It's a tricky balancing act though, while I'd hate to see a full blown forced tutorial (plus if it covered everything it'd take hours to complete) as discovering the intricacies that sets this game apart on my own is something I enjoy, some in-game reference sheet that players could pull up to provide some basic examples of the various functions might be handy for people to consult, while still being less intrusive than a tutorial.

People going into this trying to play it like every MMO they've ever played will be confused and frustrated, they'll have to accept that they're going to need to learn to play *this* game. For those willing to learn I think a simple reference guide would be enough, and for those that can't be bothered adapting I don't think anything could possibly be enough.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1106

5/01/12 7:31:46 AM#24
Originally posted by Slampig
Originally posted by aesperus

Before I start, this is not going to be a GW2 review. The purpose of this thread is to point out some issues I saw while in beta. Mainly, in how a certain crowd of gamers approached this game, and how it affects the overall impression you get of the game. This is neither a statement of the game being good or bad. Awesome or terrible. My only point is to illustrate how preconceptions and prejudices can have a huge impact on a person's impressions towards this game. I will also be pointing out some possible ways in which Anet can correct for this. Let's begin.

GW2 isn't doing anything different. It's really all the same old stuff.

- I really can't express how wrong this is. Love it or hate it, the game is different. So why are there some who don't seem to think so? A lot of this comes down to player expectations, as brought on by previous MMO experiences. For example, take BF3. If you go into that game having only playing modern warfare, you will expect the game to play the same way. When it doesn't, you're immediate assumption is 'this game sucks'. GW2 has a similar problem.

The game doesn't do a lot of hand holding. There are tons of notifications & popups all over the place to kind of guide the players. 'Hey! you're out of range!' 'This npc over here needs your help!' 'Look! you learned a new skill' etc. However, maybe, just in some of the starter areas, they need to do a bit more, to ease certain players into this game a bit easier.

Dynamic Events:

I saw a few people who tried dynamic events, talking about how 'this is nothing new, you've seen this before in other MMOs'. Some even referenced Rift or WAR, some even go as far as to say 'it's no different than standard quests'. Some of us who have played the game are thinking 'how the hell can someone form that conclusion?', some who haven't are thinking 'i knew it! this game is a huge dissapointment'.

So what happened? I saw a lot of people (and livestreamers) trying to play the game as a linear-quest model. They automatically look for 'I'm only level 3. Where's the level 3 event, that one's level 5'. They assume that events need to be completed in a specific order. That if you go to a lvl 5 event at lvl 3 you will get destroyed. Furthermore, because of this, they assume that they HAVE to only do these events until they are the appropriate level, and are stuck before then.

- GW2 doesn't work this way. You can go take on events that are a few lvls higher than you and be okay. Especially if there are other people around. Furthermore, you don't have to do an event if you don't want to. Not only are there pleanty of different events around, but also there are other ways to lvl up. Every event also has multiple different ways you can complete it. You have options.

What can Anet do to help with this?

- One possible solution to this would be to list level 'ranges' for an event. For example, all the starting area's events would be dooable from lvls 1-5.

Events don't change the world:

This is another assumption that a lot of people seemed to have. While some people may have been expecting that all events end with you changing the landscape of the world, much of this comes down to something very simple, but often overlooked.

Most events don't 'end'. Many people played this game, again, looking at events as the same deal as regular quests. "Okay this event I have to collect water. This event is an escort quest, this event I have to kill bandits." In most people's minds you have your 1 task, and once it's done, so are you.

- GW2 doesn't work this way. Great! You've killed all the bandits. That doesn't mean all is fine. You've fended off the attack, but the bandit's still have your stolen property, and it's time to take it back. Simply sticking around for some of these events, or even going back later, can yield some surprising results. Because a lot of people seemed to assume that these events were 1-dimensional, they missed out on a lot of this.

What can Anet do to help with this?

- This one's tough. Perhaps they could add some more notifications or incentives to keep people around some of the earlier events. So they can see that they do tend to chain together.

Combat is too difficult. Dodging doesn't really make much of a difference:

This one is huge. There's a lot of players that just don't seem to understand the combat. I've seen people go for over an hour, forgetting to equip an offhand. I've seen players just run up to mobs and stop. Expecting to take all the damage and self-heal through it. I've seen players burn through their dodges instantly, then complain when it's gone. I've seen players burn through all their skills, not realizing that clicking 1-2-3-4-5 may not be the best order to use your skills, and perhaps some of them shouldn't be kept on CD all the time. There's also the fact that the game doesn't really point out the role of multiple weapons to the player. They either have to figure this out for themselves, or be told.

The combat to this game is a lot more complex than most people seem to realize. Most people seem to lump skills into either damage, or 'oh sh@#' skills when playing this game. The problem with that, is there's actually a lot of different uses for each of the skills, even the ones you start with. A lot of players are using skills too early, or not fully grasping what each of the skills do. A lot of players were also spamming dodge thinking it was a free 'i can't get hit if i spam this button!' skill. However, dodging in this game actually requires excellent timing.

- GW2's combat does require some thought, and some self-exploration when it comes to skill use. Most of the skills have multiple uses, and can be used in a bunch of different ways. Reading helps, but there are also a lot of visual ques to tell people what's going on. For example, the big red circles on the ground = bad, and you should probably not stand in them. There are also skills like the ranger's hornet's sting' ability (sword mainhand). While this attack flies you away from an opponent, you can also use it to fly towards an opponent  as well. It can basically be used as both a gap closer and gap opener, depending on how you play. The engineer's static shot ability can be used as either an AoE damage ability, or you can use it to blind a bunch of foes, ensuring that their next attack misses.

What can Anet do to help with this?

- From exploring in this game I stumbled across quite a few quests. One of the ones I found had you training with the local militia. This involved learning how to shoot, how to dodge, how to time your blocks correctly. I thought overall it was a really nice quest, for how simple it was. After watching so many people playing this game incorrectly, I can't help but wonder if maybe Anet should include this type of event in the tutorial section.


- There are a lot of mindsets that Anet has to battle with in a game like this. And they know this. They are going to have to strike a very delicate balance between beating people over the head with information, excessive handholding, and leaving the game more open for self-exploration.

A lot of gamers need to be told exactly what to do, or they get confused. Such a mindset is very bad for a game like this, in which so much of it relies on the player to make smart decisions, and to try and figure out the game for themselves. There is also the issue of scaling, in which players like this seem to get steamrolled by the game's difficulty, without having a clue as to why they are doing so poorly. To many this is like rubbing salt in the wound. Not only are they playing badly & don't know it, they are being punished for it, and can't understand why.

Inspite of all of this, I think there are some fairly simple things Anet can do to help these types of players ease into the game a bit better. I'd like it if they kept the difficulty, but perhaps had a more gentle starting experience, and a less steap ramp-up into the challenging content.

I know not everyone will agree w/ me, but I think a lot of people are getting thrown off by this game for the wrong reasons.

Yeah, because all these gamers that are not prostelyzing themselves at the Alter of Guild Wars 2 are idiots, we get it, GW2 has come to save the day and woe be to those that can't play games because they have no will of their own...

This is funny because ive saw 8 different people ask where am i spose to go now there no quest telling me what to do in the section just outside the tutorial, or more less in those words.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1106

5/01/12 7:35:41 AM#25
Originally posted by Connmacart
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Slampig

Yeah, because all these gamers that are not prostelyzing themselves at the Alter of Guild Wars 2 are idiots, we get it, GW2 has come to save the day and woe be to those that can't play games because they have no will of their own...

The OP is right though. I see this a lot of misconceptions on these forums as well. Some people are saying "dynamic events are nothing more than glorified quests" when in fact they are a lot different. The people are simply so used to playing MMOs a certain way that they treat events like invasions in Rift or PQ's in WAR. Once event seemed to end, the players assumed that it was over and moved on when there is a lot more stuff going on that may not be evident right away.

I saw this in the game as well, especially during early levels. People would just move on, assuming that the event was over. Hell, I did it myself at first. After level 10, people were more inclined to stick around and see what happens next as many have finally realized that there is a lot more at play here. Personally, I found myself following random NPCs because sometimes it leads to an interesting encounter or a secret location.

I actually moved on myself after an event most of the time. Not because I didn't know about follow ups, but because I wanted to keep exploring. I wanted to see as much as possible in Queensdale before the BWE was over and I did. I explored all of it and did all the marked things on the map. 

I also choose a ranger so I wouldn't have to think about dodging to much. Let my pet soak up damage while I learn my skills first. Towards the end I was doing melee as well and tried to dodge and stuff. 

Did you find the secret bat cave in queensdale where there was a little crack in the wall that lead you to jumping over pillars through a bat infested cave and in the last room (assuming it the last room but i died in it) where there a bunch of slimes and 3 veteran slimes they killed me in that room so i didnt see what was the treasure at the end : P


PR/Brand Manager BitBox Ltd.

Joined: 10/15/10
Posts: 844

5/01/12 7:39:38 AM#26

Actually this is an excellent example of the dumbing down and hand holding in modern mmos of this decade and people that have been indoctrinated by WoW and this subtype are really shocked.


Heh my first 3D mmo was EverQuest in 1999. That was a meatgrinder even now compared to GW2.


Kithicor at night. Ahh the horror.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1106

5/01/12 7:44:00 AM#27
Originally posted by Saxx0n

Actually this is an excellent example of the dumbing down and hand holding in modern mmos of this decade and people that have been indoctrinated by WoW and this subtype are really shocked.


Heh my first 3D mmo was EverQuest in 1999. That was a meatgrinder even now compared to GW2.


Kithicor at night. Ahh the horror.

Aye kithicor i once had the unpleasantry of running through there with a low lvl charater during the day and about half way through it became night time, talk about o the horror lol.


Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2718

5/01/12 8:34:03 AM#28

Originally posted by aesperus
saved for follow-ups if needed.

Good read, but still cater towards those who don't wanne learn i say no and i realy hope Arenanet don't listend to much to those you refer to it would just dumb down the game and thats endless road Arenat should not take becouse we all know these " Don't wanne learn, always complaining casuals " keep asking for more symplified gameplay and nomatter what Arenanet do you never please those players.

Unless its all about money only then im affraid GW2 is doomed if devs give into this dumbing down method.

Btw after one weekend COME ON don't even think of symplified the game at least give it couple of more weekends so people get use to GW2 system of gameplay and see where maybe and i say maybe tweak some of the game where needed but don't make it simpler or you END UP in medeocre game division ala WoW do want that? I surtenly dont want that hehe.

CPU:Intell Icore7 4790k
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 8.1 64bit)not yet sure i upgrade to windows 10 need to know alot more with integrated cloud and other maybe spy stuff)


Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/11
Posts: 61

5/01/12 11:03:26 AM#29
Well said OP. Hopefully ANet can add and improve early game tutorials so people get a better sense of the game before they come to those misconceptions

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

5/01/12 11:09:40 AM#30

During the BWE I found myself playing the MMO in the "standard" way, and I died a lot. It took me a few levels to get out of the rut I was in, and I immediatly saw improvment in my gameplay.

I'm not saying GW2 is the holy grail, but damn its nice to see something a bit different, the approach is fluid, once you understand it.


Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1940

"I shall take your position into consideration"

5/01/12 11:14:00 AM#31

Aesperus, based on your beta experience, what assessment would you give to Guild Wars 2 on the scale of 0% being the worst and 100% being the best. Just an overall assessment would be nice.

Thank you in advance

Waiting for L2 EU Classic


Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/11
Posts: 833

Told my wife it was video games or drugs, booze, and hookers. Guess I get to keep on playing.

5/01/12 11:18:21 AM#32
Originally posted by Slampig


Yeah, because all these gamers that are not proselytizing (sp) themselves at the Alter of Guild Wars 2 are idiots, we get it, GW2 has come to save the day and woe be to those that can't play games because they have no will of their own...


proselytizing present participle of pros·e·lyt·ize (Verb)


  1. Convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
  2. Advocate or promote (a belief or course of action): "Davis wanted to proselytize his ideas".

Umm so i think you used that in the wrong context.

Not sure how GW2 will save the day either, its just a game isn't it ?

Lolipops !


Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/22/09
Posts: 1151

5/01/12 11:23:55 AM#33
OP, thanks for covering this. i find a lot of people (on these forums at least) are just hating for the sake of hating. and the game is wonderful.

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/05
Posts: 866


5/01/12 11:29:03 AM#34
Originally posted by Loke666

GW2 will probably need a tutorial, yes. Many other games have added tutorials or a special starting area for new players.

But as an older gamer I really don't care about stuff like that myself, there was a time when you had to figure out how all games worked and that could take a long time.

In GW2s case is the problem really that MMOs more or less have been the same for such a long time that many players seems to have a hard time breaking the habit.

I think they will make a tutorial.  They even made one in the mist for pvp.  It shows how to dodge, revive, finish an opponent, and more.  Everything that deals with PvP has a tutorial in the mists now.  They just need to figure out how to bring stuff like that to the PvE side.

P.S  pointing the trebs at the golems and gates is awesome.  They might need to change that since I was able to just wreak havoc with the particle effects at the entrance. :D



Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/12
Posts: 347

5/01/12 12:05:12 PM#35
Good to see posts like this. I tried to make one myself, but it just fell off the grid.

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

5/01/12 12:25:06 PM#36

Just to add a bit more to this topic: one of my friends was an avid WoW player he played that game since launch. Raided, PvP, has a level 85 of every class. He even got into the whole year of WoW promo to get the mount and Diablo III, since he assumed that he will be playing WoW for the whole year anyway.

The guy is a pretty competent gamer when it comes to other genres but I literally had to walk him through getting started with GW2. Since the only MMO he knows is WoW, he kept expecting quest givers and wasn't sure what he was suppose to do when there wasn't one. Although the NPC that reveals the hearts helped greatly. Good on ANet for adding those guys. He was also high so that didn't help much heh.

Anyway, to make the long story short, after a few hours with GW2, once he got a good feel for the game, he's now trying to figure out how to cancel his yearly promise thing to WoW.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 5296

OP  5/02/12 12:47:12 AM#37
Originally posted by coretex666

Aesperus, based on your beta experience, what assessment would you give to Guild Wars 2 on the scale of 0% being the worst and 100% being the best. Just an overall assessment would be nice.

Thank you in advance

This is pretty tough to say, to be honest. Personally I think GW2 is a really good game. It's not perfect, and has some thing's it needs to iron out, but it's in an extremely good spot for a beta. I've played other 'actual' betas in the past, and they are usually much much worse than what we saw.

If I was forced to rate this game as a launched title, I would give it somewhere around a 75%. As a beta, I'd rate it at around an 85%. The core mechanics seem to work great, a lot of the lag issues were cleared up by sunday. The pvp is incredibly well tuned. I actually have another thread about balance (specifically melee vs. ranged), and I was surprised when I was making it to see so many viable melee vids of the beta weekend. I really enjoyed the dynamic events as well, I never felt like I was being forced to do any of them. I also liked that I was being rewarded for going out into the world and exploring on my own. Definitely a solid game.

What I'd like to see improved:

- Lag (obviously). It's much better than it was, but there are still people having issues with this.

- Overflow server bug (they are aware of this and are saying they are working on this currently).

- Scaling of events. Not only does mob difficulty seem to increase drastically, some of the events seem to swing back a bit too quickly. I don't mind the difficulty, but I do think newer players will need an 'ease-in' period to get used to it. Or at least to figure out why they keep dying.

- UI. I like the UI for the most part, but I'd like to see a guild tab. I'd like to see more chat channel support, and I'd like to see the ability to form larger than 5-man parties for WvW / meta events. I know the last one isn't a necessity, but it definitely helps w/ communication, especially in WvW. If they don't want to do  that, at least increasing the range at which you can see other palyers on the map will help.

- Keybinding. The way the game is currently works. However, I'd like to see better keybinding support, and have the UI update to reflect what keys are being bound. For example, if you re-bind the F1-F4 keys to say.. zxcv, I'd like to see that on the icon, instead of it still saying F1-F4.

- Graphics (they are working on this. They game looks great already, but the graphics do need optimizing)

Everything else is fairly minor, like Guild cloaks. I had a great time in beta, and definitely think it's worth the price and then some. However, I do think with a few months of polish this game can get even better. It's more fun and has more content than any other MMO i've played in the past decade.

EDIT: Also, the voice acting I find pretty bad in parts of this game. I'm hoping they do a revamp on it, but it's not a gamebreaker for me. If nothing else, I really hope they change the dialogue in the forest Pvp zone. Hearing 'you couldn't keep the keep!' 'the keep is yours, keep it!' gets very old, very fast. We get it, it's a keep, har har.. cheesiest lines of the century, lol.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 5296

OP  5/02/12 12:54:41 AM#38
Originally posted by Classicstar

Originally posted by aesperus
saved for follow-ups if needed.

Good read, but still cater towards those who don't wanne learn i say no and i realy hope Arenanet don't listend to much to those you refer to it would just dumb down the game and thats endless road Arenat should not take becouse we all know these " Don't wanne learn, always complaining casuals " keep asking for more symplified gameplay and nomatter what Arenanet do you never please those players.

I agree. I don't want them to dumb this game down. I LOVE the difficulty. Actually, in the previous beta (before the BWE) I was complaining the game was 'too easy'. I was consistantly fighting enemies 6 lvls higher than I was.

What I think needs to happen, though, is people will need to be given more of a 'taste' of things to come. Show players an example of why dodging is important, of what an armor repair vendor looks like & why it's important. Show players why conditions are important, and how to block / dodge properly. Give them an early example of an event that appears to be over, and then another one starts.

They shouldn't have to change the rest of the game at all, only the beginning. Not only would this minimize a lot of these baseless complaints, but I think it will help more people enjoy the game from the start. Let's face it, the average person doesn't have the patience anymore to give a game a fair shot. If they aren't immediately sold, most people will assume the game is bad and move on.

On the one hand, I don't want this game to turn into another WoW. Personally I find that GW2's community is much better than most MMOs. On the other, if they want to have a popular game they are going to need to guide people in the right direction at the start. A game like this needs a lot of people to stay fun. WvW is awfully dull when there are no armies trying to occupy it.

  User Deleted
5/02/12 1:10:27 AM#39
I don't agree with the amalgam made between "casual" and "always complaining bad player". It's silly to assume that because some one plays less, he's automatically a whiner wanting everything made easy.
2 Pages « 1 2 Search