I dont play sandboxes because... well, what's this trend with "sandboxes" lately? I only know a few games which seem to meet the "requirements" to qualify as a "sandbox", whichever those "requirements" are. Tried EvE, 3 times, didnt like it, as much as i wanted to get into it. If forced to make a list of 10 decent "sandboxes" launched in the last 5 years, i would definitely struggle (altho i would really really appreciate if someone makes such a list for me here). Open my eyes, enlighten me, i really want to expand my gaming experience.

You need to put another option..

*I play sandboxes show me the results..

I mainly play sandbox games as they are 20x  better than the same old same old theme park games..

Only themepark im planning on playing this year is TSW.. but i may pick up GW2 when it gets cheaper.

Originally posted by simmihi

I dont play sandboxes because... well, what's this trend with "sandboxes" lately? I only know a few games which seem to meet the "requirements" to qualify as a "sandbox", whichever those "requirements" are. Tried EvE, 3 times, didnt like it, as much as i wanted to get into it. If forced to make a list of 10 decent "sandboxes" launched in the last 5 years, i would definitely struggle (altho i would really really appreciate if someone makes such a list for me here). Open my eyes, enlighten me, i really want to expand my gaming experience.

The list of decent sandboxes launched in the last 5 years would be empty. :)

Here's a list of what most people would call sandboxy games launched in the last 10 years (in alphabetical order): A Tale in the Desert, Darkfall, EvE, Haven & Hearth, Istaria (I'm unsure whether it counts, didn't play it), Mortal Online, Ryzom, SWG, Xsyon

Anything I've forgotten or don't know about? (And please, GW2 fans, don't come in here to claim GW2 is a sandbox.)

[Edit: added A Tale in the Desert to the list. I had forgotten to include it although I've played it. Thanks to simmihi for reminding me.]

Originally posted by Larsa

Originally posted by simmihi

I dont play sandboxes because... well, what's this trend with "sandboxes" lately? I only know a few games which seem to meet the "requirements" to qualify as a "sandbox", whichever those "requirements" are. Tried EvE, 3 times, didnt like it, as much as i wanted to get into it. If forced to make a list of 10 decent "sandboxes" launched in the last 5 years, i would definitely struggle (altho i would really really appreciate if someone makes such a list for me here). Open my eyes, enlighten me, i really want to expand my gaming experience.

The list of decent sandboxes launched in the last 5 years would be empty. :)

Here's a list of what most people would call sandboxy games launched in the last 10 years (in alphabetical order): Darkfall, EvE, Haven & Hearth, Istaria (I'm unsure whether it counts, didn't play it), Mortal Online, Ryzom, SWG, Xsyon

Anything I've forgotten or don't know about? (And please, GW2 fans, don't come in here to claim GW2 is a sandbox.)

Yea that was kinda my feeling too. "Thou cannot play that which does not exist" :)

Anyways, from your "extended" list i've played EvE (can't get to like it, get bored after one month, no idea why) and Ryzom (i think it's a little gem of a game, was turned off by the absolute total lack of players). SWG unfortunately i didnt experience as i was playing something else at that time, the feeling is that i've missed on a great game. Darkfall and MO... well the communities were so visceral that these didnt appeal to me at all. Xsyon had an interesting concept but it seems to have slowly died tho. There was that other game, A tale in the desert, also interesting. I like things which are different from the mainstream and i'd totally play something else along with these old and new WoW clones we seem to gravitate around, but until something "good" is launched in this field...

Maybe it's time for a nice sandbox but as for now, the answer to the question in the title is pretty clear: we don't play sandboxes because there is only one which matters (EvE), but it does not suit everyone. A fantasy EvE i might play, i just ain't much into space combat, adding the vertical dimmension to my character doesnt feel right for my playstyle.

A lot of it for me is the level of overall quality. Eve is an exception - the quality is very high there. But for me, I think Eve's game play is too slow and the interfaces to get anything done is akin to an Excel spreadsheet (see my sig - I don't want to play a spreadsheet). Obviously there are a ton of folks who love Eve, and I really wish I was one of them, but every time I re-up my sub and jump in, the love affair with the visuals quickly fades and I feel like I'm playing a pretty spreadsheet.

As for other sandboxes, the overall quality just isn't there. SWG had some good qualities, and was the last sandbox I considered worthy of my gaming time. I keep hoping Archage makes it to the US shores. It looks like it could be a lot of fun.

I love sandbox single player games but have had to all but abandon them as MMOs. Why?

Time.

Im middle aged now with most of the responsibilities of being middle aged. As much as I love EVE, I simply can't log in, hop on Vent and spend the next 4 or 5 hrs. forming up, finding a fight, doing ops, hitting timers, etc. So much of it involves being immersed in a world parallel to the real world (esp the meta game) that it really isn't feasable for me to participate in. But then what do I know? I've always been terrible at EVE anyhow ;)

Still really hopeful for Archeage and hope there.is a place for me there.

Originally posted by gostly

[,,,]

Although for those of us that played some of the original MMO's, we desperately seek a game with social interaction...

[,,,]

The thing I enjoy about this system that is in most sandbox games is the fear of being attacked at any time and doing the same to someone else. It also gives you a sense of feeling that you don't wanna be alone when you're wandering around in the world, so being in a guild or having friends to roll with in game means the players create their own safety. When you go out by yourself, you know the risks so generally you wouldn't take anything you don't wanna lose.

Exactly. Sandboxes are for socializers. This is why when people join a snadbox they feel like they have no guidance and don't know what to do, you're expected to gain that guidance, motivation to play, narrative, accomplishments ect. all through interactions with other players.

Sandbox crowd is worse than the themepark crowd, by a long shot. For all the claims of "we want open worlds, and freedom, and choice" I've yet to see a crowd that doesn't clam up and shutdown the moment a developer dare reveal anything they have deemed "not sandbox" into a game.

Sandbox fans I have found to be the most arrogant, stupid, closed minded people to ever pick up a videogame.

Only played (and enjoyed) one real sandbox style MMO, EVE (Xyson didn't count, too incomplete) so can't say I wouldn't play a AAA sandbox title, just doubt one will ever be made.

Closest we can hope for I think is a hybrid like Archeage.

Can't vote because I still play Eve online.  Space marketer and space pirate are a fun passtime hehe. 

I like the idea of the completely player run economy, crafting/manufacturing that matters, and pvp that matters (although most people who pvp now a days do it because it DOESN't matter).

For me (I have only played Ultima Online as a sandbox MMO), none of them ever falls on my radar. I look at the most popular and highest rated. I'm looking forward to ArcheAge, but it may not ever get to the US market.

Edit: I forgot that EVE was a sandbox MMO. I didn't even try it because of the "lose everything when you die" mechanic, high learning curve, and that it's just a massive spreadsheet from what I've heard. So, yeah, if lots of the sandbox MMOs have "lose everything when you die", then that would be the biggest reason I don't play sandbox MMOs.

1) I'm a little burned out on MMORPG in general.
2) Other people are the best and worst aspect of playing online games. Sandbox game mechanics that are currently implemented seem to cater to the less desirable aspects of playing with other people.
3) Generally speaking, the overall quality of current sandbox MMORPG is just weak. MMORPG are not tops on the quality scale compared to the single player and even a lot of the multiplayer games that are available. Sandbox MMORPG seem to start far behind the rest of the pack in this regard.
4) I think I'd prefer a 100% sandbox game like Minecraft or the Half Life mod (can't remember the name right now) instead of the partial sandbox you'll get with MMORPG.

None of this means I wouldn't play a sandbox mmorpg, I just don't see myself playing any currently available sandbox mmorpg.

** edit **
5) There is no single player game play in any of the current sandbox mmorpg. You're either in a guild or you're dead...there is no in between area.

Like many have said, and the response I chose, full loot PvP turns me off of a game. I have found anonymity brings out the worst in many people.

The other reason I do not play is the time I feel is needed to "compete" with other players. I just don't play MMOs to compete with people. I don't want to feel like I HAVE to log in everyday to see if my house is still standing.

Originally posted by Larsa

Originally posted by simmihi

I dont play sandboxes because... well, what's this trend with "sandboxes" lately? I only know a few games which seem to meet the "requirements" to qualify as a "sandbox", whichever those "requirements" are. Tried EvE, 3 times, didnt like it, as much as i wanted to get into it. If forced to make a list of 10 decent "sandboxes" launched in the last 5 years, i would definitely struggle (altho i would really really appreciate if someone makes such a list for me here). Open my eyes, enlighten me, i really want to expand my gaming experience.

The list of decent sandboxes launched in the last 5 years would be empty. :)

Here's a list of what most people would call sandboxy games launched in the last 10 years (in alphabetical order): A Tale in the Desert, Darkfall, EvE, Haven & Hearth, Istaria (I'm unsure whether it counts, didn't play it), Mortal Online, Ryzom, SWG, Xsyon

Anything I've forgotten or don't know about? (And please, GW2 fans, don't come in here to claim GW2 is a sandbox.)

[Edit: added A Tale in the Desert to the list. I had forgotten to include it although I've played it. Thanks to simmihi for reminding me.]

On Istaria, that was turned into more of a Themepark sort of game. But I'm not sure how far they went. It was a real shame, because the original idea (under the name Horizons) was fantastic. The boards had great activity and excitement until the change, and it went down fast after the change.

The strange thing was, as Horizons, they had financial backing from NCsoft, but NCsoft backed out when Horizons changed to Istaria. But from what I understand, NCsoft was after some technical development they were making rather than the game itself. Also, while their financing was far more substancial than what the Indies have had to work with for their entire games, it would have only taken Horizons up to a point after which they would have needed more financing. I belive they would have gotten that financing had things progressed, and we would have had the ultimate Sandbox game right now.

What happened inside Horizons/Istaria to cause the change was what has become the great problem for us gamers. One of the core people didn't believe in Sandbox, and won an inside struggle that booted the original guy (with the original ideas) out the door. Then changed everything.

Dragons turned out to be just another class. In the original Horixons, Dragons were suposed to be a special race that would be perma-killed, while being hunted by everyone else for their parts used for ingredients for powerful magics. They were supposed to grow from young to old, gaining size and power, into a powerful force IF THEY SURVIVED. There were a few other races like this too, Sphinxes, Angels, Demons. They were meant to be the ultimate challenge to play, and meant to be kept down in numbers, by perma-death, to only those who succeeded.

And even the regular races were cool. Slith (?) lizard men of the deserts, who could run faster over the sands, Cat people who were better at stealth in the woodlands. And 2 opposed underwater races with a COMPLETE UNDERWATER REALM to play in.

There were still unsolved issues with all their plans. One of the biggest was how to keep guilds from working together to make a bunch of powerful Dragons and then dominating the game. But I think there are always solutions to any problem if you think long enough and plan well for the overall game. One idea being tossed around was some form of disease for Dragons that acted together.

Also, Horizons was supposed to have a justice system to keep PKing under control. Allows world wide PvP, but limit it to realistic confrontations based on goals, allow the "crime of murder" but with punishment for abusers.

Damn I miss what Horizons could have been.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Give me GW2 but let me build shit.

 

simple really...

^Would love that sandbox/themepark-ish hybrid :)

Originally posted by Pyuk

... I think Eve's game play is too slow and the interfaces to get anything done is akin to an Excel spreadsheet (see my sig - I don't want to play a spreadsheet)..

I understand that EVE is not everyone's cup of tea. I think that's true of any game, and I can certainly respect that. EVE is unique, no doubt.

However, I don't understand this "spreadsheet" argument. Maybe I've played it for too long, but I find the EVE UI quite informative and customizable, and not a "spreadsheet" at all.  Also, with the upcoming changes to the UI, I expect to see significant improvements to its accessibility for new players.

Originally posted by Amaranthar

Originally posted by Larsa

Originally posted by simmihi

I dont play sandboxes because... well, what's this trend with "sandboxes" lately? I only know a few games which seem to meet the "requirements" to qualify as a "sandbox", whichever those "requirements" are. Tried EvE, 3 times, didnt like it, as much as i wanted to get into it. If forced to make a list of 10 decent "sandboxes" launched in the last 5 years, i would definitely struggle (altho i would really really appreciate if someone makes such a list for me here). Open my eyes, enlighten me, i really want to expand my gaming experience.

The list of decent sandboxes launched in the last 5 years would be empty. :)

Here's a list of what most people would call sandboxy games launched in the last 10 years (in alphabetical order): A Tale in the Desert, Darkfall, EvE, Haven & Hearth, Istaria (I'm unsure whether it counts, didn't play it), Mortal Online, Ryzom, SWG, Xsyon

Anything I've forgotten or don't know about? (And please, GW2 fans, don't come in here to claim GW2 is a sandbox.)

[Edit: added A Tale in the Desert to the list. I had forgotten to include it although I've played it. Thanks to simmihi for reminding me.]

On Istaria, that was turned into more of a Themepark sort of game. But I'm not sure how far they went. It was a real shame, because the original idea (under the name Horizons) was fantastic. The boards had great activity and excitement until the change, and it went down fast after the change.

The strange thing was, as Horizons, they had financial backing from NCsoft, but NCsoft backed out when Horizons changed to Istaria. But from what I understand, NCsoft was after some technical development they were making rather than the game itself. Also, while their financing was far more substancial than what the Indies have had to work with for their entire games, it would have only taken Horizons up to a point after which they would have needed more financing. I belive they would have gotten that financing had things progressed, and we would have had the ultimate Sandbox game right now.

What happened inside Horizons/Istaria to cause the change was what has become the great problem for us gamers. One of the core people didn't believe in Sandbox, and won an inside struggle that booted the original guy (with the original ideas) out the door. Then changed everything.

Dragons turned out to be just another class. In the original Horixons, Dragons were suposed to be a special race that would be perma-killed, while being hunted by everyone else for their parts used for ingredients for powerful magics. They were supposed to grow from young to old, gaining size and power, into a powerful force IF THEY SURVIVED. There were a few other races like this too, Sphinxes, Angels, Demons. They were meant to be the ultimate challenge to play, and meant to be kept down in numbers, by perma-death, to only those who succeeded.

And even the regular races were cool. Slith (?) lizard men of the deserts, who could run faster over the sands, Cat people who were better at stealth in the woodlands. And 2 opposed underwater races with a COMPLETE UNDERWATER REALM to play in.

There were still unsolved issues with all their plans. One of the biggest was how to keep guilds from working together to make a bunch of powerful Dragons and then dominating the game. But I think there are always solutions to any problem if you think long enough and plan well for the overall game. One idea being tossed around was some form of disease for Dragons that acted together.

Also, Horizons was supposed to have a justice system to keep PKing under control. Allows world wide PvP, but limit it to realistic confrontations based on goals, allow the "crime of murder" but with punishment for abusers.

Damn I miss what Horizons could have been.

I dont' think HZ was ever funded by NCsoft, they were funded by Atarii for a bit though.

The original version idea was very interesting.  However the version out now is one of most sandboxy games out there, far more than DF or Ryzom.  Its one of the few games that actually let you change the game world to an extent.  Craft everything, build thousands of things, change the game world, economy (although small pop), learn every skill.  Definatley a sandbox.

Originally posted by Boardwalker

Originally posted by Pyuk

... I think Eve's game play is too slow and the interfaces to get anything done is akin to an Excel spreadsheet (see my sig - I don't want to play a spreadsheet)..

I understand that EVE is not everyone's cup of tea. I think that's true of any game, and I can certainly respect that. EVE is unique, no doubt.

However, I don't understand this "spreadsheet" argument. Maybe I've played it for too long, but I find the EVE UI quite informative and customizable, and not a "spreadsheet" at all.  Also, with the upcoming changes to the UI, I expect to see significant improvements to its accessibility for new players.

With the spreadsheet, they might be referring to the spread sheets used by the uber marketeer types that loves to analyze all the market data in the game. 

Could also be referring to the spreadsheets used by the min/max types that pvp in only the most maxxed out ships, and pve in the most optimized of ships.

When I visit the eve forums, that's all they talk about.  "This item will be worth X if it continues the same rate" or "This build Y should handle most BC's" etc. etc. 

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Amaranthar

Originally posted by Larsa

Originally posted by simmihi

I dont play sandboxes because... well, what's this trend with "sandboxes" lately? I only know a few games which seem to meet the "requirements" to qualify as a "sandbox", whichever those "requirements" are. Tried EvE, 3 times, didnt like it, as much as i wanted to get into it. If forced to make a list of 10 decent "sandboxes" launched in the last 5 years, i would definitely struggle (altho i would really really appreciate if someone makes such a list for me here). Open my eyes, enlighten me, i really want to expand my gaming experience.

The list of decent sandboxes launched in the last 5 years would be empty. :)

Here's a list of what most people would call sandboxy games launched in the last 10 years (in alphabetical order): A Tale in the Desert, Darkfall, EvE, Haven & Hearth, Istaria (I'm unsure whether it counts, didn't play it), Mortal Online, Ryzom, SWG, Xsyon

Anything I've forgotten or don't know about? (And please, GW2 fans, don't come in here to claim GW2 is a sandbox.)

[Edit: added A Tale in the Desert to the list. I had forgotten to include it although I've played it. Thanks to simmihi for reminding me.]

On Istaria, that was turned into more of a Themepark sort of game. But I'm not sure how far they went. It was a real shame, because the original idea (under the name Horizons) was fantastic. The boards had great activity and excitement until the change, and it went down fast after the change.

The strange thing was, as Horizons, they had financial backing from NCsoft, but NCsoft backed out when Horizons changed to Istaria. But from what I understand, NCsoft was after some technical development they were making rather than the game itself. Also, while their financing was far more substancial than what the Indies have had to work with for their entire games, it would have only taken Horizons up to a point after which they would have needed more financing. I belive they would have gotten that financing had things progressed, and we would have had the ultimate Sandbox game right now.

What happened inside Horizons/Istaria to cause the change was what has become the great problem for us gamers. One of the core people didn't believe in Sandbox, and won an inside struggle that booted the original guy (with the original ideas) out the door. Then changed everything.

Dragons turned out to be just another class. In the original Horixons, Dragons were suposed to be a special race that would be perma-killed, while being hunted by everyone else for their parts used for ingredients for powerful magics. They were supposed to grow from young to old, gaining size and power, into a powerful force IF THEY SURVIVED. There were a few other races like this too, Sphinxes, Angels, Demons. They were meant to be the ultimate challenge to play, and meant to be kept down in numbers, by perma-death, to only those who succeeded.

And even the regular races were cool. Slith (?) lizard men of the deserts, who could run faster over the sands, Cat people who were better at stealth in the woodlands. And 2 opposed underwater races with a COMPLETE UNDERWATER REALM to play in.

There were still unsolved issues with all their plans. One of the biggest was how to keep guilds from working together to make a bunch of powerful Dragons and then dominating the game. But I think there are always solutions to any problem if you think long enough and plan well for the overall game. One idea being tossed around was some form of disease for Dragons that acted together.

Also, Horizons was supposed to have a justice system to keep PKing under control. Allows world wide PvP, but limit it to realistic confrontations based on goals, allow the "crime of murder" but with punishment for abusers.

Damn I miss what Horizons could have been.

I dont' think HZ was ever funded by NCsoft, they were funded by Atarii for a bit though.

The original version idea was very interesting.  However the version out now is one of most sandboxy games out there, far more than DF or Ryzom.  Its one of the few games that actually let you change the game world to an extent.  Craft everything, build thousands of things, change the game world, economy (although small pop), learn every skill.  Definatley a sandbox.

Yeah, they did get funding from NCsoft. I'm still looking for proof, but it's hard to find something like that from years ago. I'll post more if I find it, but here's showing that there was a publishing agreement.

"Artifact Entertainment, makers of Horizons: Empires of Istaria, recently signed a publishing agreement with Korean developers NCsoft."

It's about half way down this page.

Edit to add: Didn't they end up with large power gaps? Didn't the game world get divided largely by those power gaps, just like a Themepark? I don't know, that's just what I thought.