Originally posted by Elikal

So let me get this straight.

A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

 

I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

I would say do some more research for yourself before forming an opinion. You seemed confused.

Lets just say I used 2 daggers on my necro, and felt I was doing little damage, but with my warrior and mace, I was doing way more. I dunno. Melee > spells simply because its harder to hit with melee.

Elikal,

"Let me get one thing straight, no matter how much you guys think you here are representative, none of us here is! We are relatively strongly dedicated gamers, with much experience and "sufferability". The vast number of average players out there, dies a few times, fails a few times and tosses a game into the corner. Period. People are spoilt, to say it clear, WoW did this and nothing ain't ever going to turn the wheel of time back. That is why all this high nosed "oh you have to get BETTER", "you have to learn to dodge in time" just ain't gonna work. For you, yes. For the majority of the dedicated gamers here. But 90% of all MMO gamers never go to ANY forum, never care about all these things. They enter a game, try it out, and when they are frustrated they "decide with their feet": they go. Comprende? So all this "oh learn the game, if you fail you are stupid" is wasted, entirely and totally pointless. Sorry for sounding rude, but I try to get you guys back to reality. Gamers today have habits and expectations, and nothing makes the masses of average joe and jill more easily pissed off than breaking their habits. I think there are more people who quit a MMO over trivialities lik "M" not opening the map than you think."

I agree with you but I don't think you realize that ANet is not after the traditional (read WOW, RIFT, SWTOR) audience. They are after the "new wave" - the "action combat" crowd. This new rage is driven by the push by the suits to get mmos where the real money is - consoles. The mantra now is "our game requires skill". PVP is king. Tera and GW2 are the first of this new AAA breed - and all future mmos will follow.

I am a traditional mmo player (WOW, Rift, SWTOR) and the ironic thing for me is that I really like GW2. The world is gorgeous, believable and fun. The dynamic events are a rip-off from Rift but I loved them in that game and I love them in GW2. I enjoyed combat even though I died a lot.

However, I can see that, probably in the 30's level of GW2 that I will give up the game. First the game is not solo friendly. Yes you can solo (I did) but to get most of the skill points you have to take back congested areas which requires a group. I played the necromancer mostly in the GW2 beta and died a lot - even in the last few hours where I learned to dodge extremely well. I don't care how well you dodge, when you are in a confined space with multiple mobs - you die unless you are with a group. I only made it to the level 10 story quest because I could not beat the final boss (and I tried it the last time when I was level 14). I am sure that in the higher levels that I will not be able to survive - and then I will quit.

 Second, you do have to know your class well. I played the engineer for 5 levels and gave up. I died so much that I ran out of money. Yes - I did not know the class well. I tried the guardian  and the warrior and both classes did seem squishy - certainly more vulnerable than traditional mmo melee fighters.

I respect what GW2 has done - they have produced a masterpiece. I do believe that the game will attract the type of player that they are looking for - skilled pvpers. But, for the traditional mmo player I do not see it as the next big thing.  

Originally posted by Sector13

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by nordya
 

 

Those roles are still fun.

guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

Yah ok, whatever dude...

Furthermore just moving from side to side worked for dodging some ranged attacks in PvE.

Ok, now that it utter BS. Moving side to side did NOTHING. Arrows would literally curve in air and still hit me. Quit lying out your @$$ and just let people tell their experiences with the game. 

Do you know what juking is?  I dodged plenty of ranged attacks in PVP and PVE by changing directions right as the attack is launched.  The attack leads to where you are going so if you don't change directions you will get hit.  Same like in an fps,  if you keep going in a single direction I will easily be able to pick you off.

Originally posted by Sector13

Originally posted by Atlan99

 

Furthermore just moving from side to side worked for dodging some ranged attacks in PvE.

Ok, now that it utter BS. Moving side to side did NOTHING. Arrows would literally curve in air and still hit me. Quit lying out your @$$ and just let people tell their experiences with the game. 

Actually he's not lying. I did it myself when praticing against the Necro dummy in the PvP lobby. Maybe you had that much lag that you didn't actually move side to side in time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_REN9XRY0wk

tanky warrior

Originally posted by JoeyMMO

Originally posted by Magnum2103

This worries me.  Melee is ridiculously strong in PvP.  Buffing it is going to make it insane.  I used a lot of melee in PvE on my ranger and didn't have issue (just gear a little more towards toughness and vit) except on Champion MOBs which might need to be tuned down in terms of melee damage.  With Quickening Zephyr on a Ranger you can destroy any class without invulnerability in seconds in melee, and most specs also have a large amount of survivability on top of it.  Giving them more survivability without trading off the damage is going to make melee absolutely overpowered in Conquest.

 True, I hope they don't change melee too much because some people are still whining that they can't tank. Stick with the plan Anet! Let the players adapt to the system, don't turn the system into WoW because some want to be able to faceroll and win. Please!

but the problem is,people generally like playing mmos with other people.and alot of peoples way of adapting is whining about it on forums and leaving the game

im suprised arenanet didnt cave and get rid of dodge.that sounded like the first thing that was gonna happen

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Elikal

I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

... if mages and rangers have higher survivability and have an easier time hitting somebody, if they did more damage too, wouldn't they be ridiculously overpowered? <.<

Also, the only cloth type who is really durable in general is the necromancer.  ... and warriors are less squishy if they dodge better.  It's just harder to dodge when you're right in their face.  Part of the problem is people are too used to being a warrior and trading hits face to face, when they need to dodge just as much as the ranged classes do (Dodge away, then leap back in with your range-closing attack, for example)

Being a different type of game doesn't mean you're doing it wrong, it means you're doing it different.  Just might mean it's a little harder for some people to adapt.

Balance problems need to be fixed, of course, but not EVERYTHING is a balance problem.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It seems some wish their class was oped so they have it easy. Sorry but we aren't going back to the GW1 ways of doing things here.

Originally posted by k-damage
Why is it so hard for a game studio to just say "This class is not hard, learn to play" .. ?

people alot of things that your average person considers easy.mmo players find hard

playing world of warcraft and raiding for years should be an example,alot of people are pretty terrible at simple things like moving out of the giant fire under your feet thats killing you

Originally posted by k-damage
Why is it so hard for a game studio to just say "This class is not hard, learn to play" .. ?

"Stop whining and L2P" is kinda what i got from the dev quote in the opening post in this thread tbh.

Originally posted by ProfRed

Ah sweet I was just talking to my friends about how much I loved playing melee in the crazy events, and how I could use skill and weapon swapping to try to stay alive while dishing out damage.  We were talking about how much we loved the difficulty and how impressed we were by it.

Once again we will have a game dumbed down until it is a cake walk to appease the masses.  I can't wait until you can spam 1 and survive all PvE encounters and events!  Hooray!

Who wants to EAT HoorAYY.

No but i agree my favorite time in gw2 so far the the shaman in the starting zone of the charr... way too hard vs every other starting zone encounter... and i loved every second of it.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Voiidiin

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Elikal

So let me get this straight.

A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

 

I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

Blegh. You just sound confused. Half of your questions don't make sense.

 

There are no tanks.

Melee does indeed usually do more damage. Rangers and ele can melee too.

Heavy armor does protect you more.

You do have to avoid big attacks.

People don't die in two minutes unless they aern't doing it right.

Event scaling has been implemented. It needs further balancing.

 

You're just so far off base it's difficult to know where you are getting your info from.

I think he gets his information from the SWTOR forums.

He hasn't played the game,  he's just trying to understand it.

 

Honestly though, I don't think Elikal would enjoy the combat  very much.  Its less action-y than DCUO,  but more action-y than SWTOR... and he didn't like DCUOs combat much... so I'd proceed with caution if I were him.

I am going to try it out either way. It surely looks beautiful and has many pro's. Still this change of what's known and proven really surprises me. ... And I don't like change and surprise. ;)

DCU combat just wore me out quickly. After 1 hour DCU I felt like I had played 8 hours of a normal MMO, because all that dodging made me aggressive and drained me quickly. I need a feeling that my char is a hero, not some ragdoll. And yes, that mean I love the EQ2/WOW/LOTRO style combat, where you can take it easy and just have a good time.

Maybe you can suggest me a more relaxed class, that does not require so much dodging and lolcoptering?

Originally posted by Djildjamesh

I noticed many MANY melee ( guardians and warriors ) trying to tank stuff.

My girlfriend played a guardian and she didn't even have the dodge keybinded. Then again she could take quiet a beating compared to my elementalist. if i got hit by some sort of bigger attack i'd INSTANTLY loose 50%+ of my health :O   (when i was fire specced that is)

I played with my girlfriend guardian all weekend and i quickly noticed 2 cenarios. If there were many melee mobs i was at a major advantage, compared to her, simply kiting and dodging them to their death ^^. But when their were 4 ranged mobs i'd OFTEN bite the dust.  I founded it REALLY hard trying to survive in those situation. Often the only way to survive was to get out of line of sight untill my heal was back up. While in the meantime my gf was getting hammered, but she really could get a massive beating compared to me without dieing.

All in all, balance needs some work i'd say, but damn, i thought it was amazing :D The difference in classes and playstyles is one of the things i love most

Next BWE let your gf know that you don't have to keybind dodge to another key (unless that just works better for you).  I left mine on double tap of WASD which left me free to dodge in any direction necessary.  Personally....I think that's better than having it bound to another single key that makes you dodge in only ONE direction.  Just double tap one of the WASD keys.  And that's the default set up.  I don't know....maybe I'm the only one that liked the default?