Originally posted by Sector13

Originally posted by Zeroxin

 

How many times will we tell you?

Dodging works like a charm. The only time a dodge doesn't move you far is if you are crippled or chilled.

Only certain abilities can be used on the move and you have a lot of abilities that move you. If those abilities could be used on the move, some particular melee set-ups would be extremely deadly. This is something "If you can't stun, they'll run". Stun (immobilize, daze, stun) and then get yourself in range to use the ability. It's about the player not the game.

Dodging does not work like a charm. Nor does the hit detection. Nor does charge attacks. The combat is a mess and needs work. I have no idea how people can defend it, even after 10 mins of play I could tell that the combat was far from polished and the more I played the more I learned how unpolished it really is. 

I can defend it because I spent 90% of my time in the structured PvP and the PvP lobby testing out builds and skills and set-ups. The problem probably is lag and lag makes it feel like dodging is ineffective but it isn't ineffective because when people use it on me and when they I use it on them, I and they whiff all attacks. Of course I'd definitely like to have a bit more dodge time but it pretty much makes you invulnerable so.... more dodge time might not be advisable.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Elikal

So let me get this straight.

A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

 

I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

Blegh. You just sound confused. Half of your questions don't make sense.

 

There are no tanks.

Melee does indeed usually do more damage. Rangers and ele can melee too.

Heavy armor does protect you more.

You do have to avoid big attacks.

People don't die in two minutes unless they aern't doing it right.

Event scaling has been implemented. It needs further balancing.

 

You're just so far off base it's difficult to know where you are getting your info from.

You know it's quite a simple thing, given it has been the rule in about 50 MMOs by now or so.

When will people get it?  The way things are done in GW2 are not always the way things have been done before.  You have two options: take it or leave it.  I don't care which.

To the OP, the only problem I had playing melee was losing sight of the enemy due to particle effects.  If I could see it clearly, I could watch for the tells indicating a big hit was coming and dodge.  If I couldn't see the telegraphed hits, which was frequent, I was left watching my health bar so I knew when I had to bail out and heal.  That's the only problem I had with the system.

As for heavy armor being squishy as cloth, that's patently false.  My Guardian was able to soak up the standard damage far better than my duelist Mesmer, but the big blows still could take half my life.  By contrast, my Mesmer would be left with a sliver of life.  There's clearly a difference, but the bottom line is that NO profession is durable enough to take that kind of damage repeatedly.  Heavy armor wearers just have more of a buffer against it than light.  To be effective, you must avoid damage wherever you can.

Since I have always played warrior types (as far back as the early 80s in PnP days), I will add my two cents:

The way ArenaNet implemented it is poor. Just because we have a dodge mechanic doesn't mean every class should need it. Let's start with this, just from an immersion perspective - a plate mail wearing warrior does not roll and dodge! Part of the reason for thieves, for example, to dodge is because of the lighter armor. Heavy armor is to soak up damage because you don't dodge.

Secondly, GW is making a big mistake. Not that I mind the different mechanics, but every class should not be required to play the same way in combat - that's what keeps alting fresh and interesting.

I loved GW2 BWE. I am okay with the combat system. But as a officer of a guild more than 150 strong, I can see a LOT of issues getting GW2 to become a mainstream MMO with the guild because of the current combat mechanics (and the pressing need for a tutorial area in the beginning).

GW2 will be a great game and I will play it. But it is lacking in some areas to really become a mainstream game. I'm all for the breaking of commonplace, boring MMO play (questing on rails, themeparks, the MMO trinity, gear grinds, etc.) but I personally believe they are making a HUGE mistake moving away from long established RPG standards.

People play warriors because they like to go toe-to-toe with the enemy. I don't want a dodge - give me a block (that works faster than molasses) and parry. Make me trade off between attacking and defending. But don't have me rolling in full plate mail (truly immersion breaking).

As to the dodge mechanic, they should tie it to armor types rather than everyone having three. Warriors should get one for the big boss, oh s*** moments. Rogues and Rangers should have three, since this is where they excel. Casters should have two, since they are focused more on intelligence than physical prowess.

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by Sector13

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

* snipski *

Dodging does not work like a charm. Nor does the hit detection. Nor does charge attacks. The combat is a mess and needs work. I have no idea how people can defend it, even after 10 mins of play I could tell that the combat was far from polished and the more I played the more I learned how unpolished it really is. 

Yea, even though you seemingly dodged at the right moment, enemy damage sometimes went through anyway. Skills did not always activate properly and would make the combat appear out-of-sync and sloppy.

However, the sole reason for the above issues was due to server lag (at least in my case) in combination with my poor performing PC. So i have no doubt, that once they fix the technical issues which plagued the beta event, we'll see a much improved and enjoyable combat experience.

Originally posted by nordya
I have a question then,

I am interested in guild wars 2 but my reflexes aren't what they used to be because of health reasons. Could I still enjoy the game being slower in my reflexes?

That's a hard question to ask without knowing what type of reflexes you have. What types of games do you play?

Gamers reflexes are generally faster than non-gamers are on some scales..  One of our perks..:P

Originally posted by nordya
I have a question then,

I am interested in guild wars 2 but my reflexes aren't what they used to be because of health reasons. Could I still enjoy the game being slower in my reflexes?

I say yes. Just play ranged fighter or support.

Those roles are still fun.

guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

Originally posted by DocDexter
I played a guardian most of the weekend, and with the right skills you could go toe-to-toe for longer times with up to three mobs before having to roll out and heal. But I do agree that rolling in heavy armor looks a bit silly. They really should use a different animation for the defensive move of heavy armor users.

You play Engineer?

I was doing that as a level 2 without full weapon skills. 2 enemy vs my level 2 engineer. They only got me from dodge mechanic issues and siege arrow spam. Wow they had tons of that siege arrow AoE spamming going on. Was hard to fight and avoid that mess. But wow that was a fun experience. NPC are stupid when fighting ranged fighters. Only glitches could allow NPC to hit me. SMH...

Originally posted by Elikal

So let me get this straight.

A melee class can wear plate mail and still be no tank?

A ranged class like Elementalist or Ranger does LESS damange than a melee like Vanguard?

Heavy armour does not protect you even with chain or plate better than cloth, so you have to move like a mokey?

If people die all 2 min's it's their fault and the game is good?

Oh and event scaling has still not been implemented? I recall how many time Trion assured their invasions are going to be scaled, and that never worked out.

 

I'd say this game has some serious issues in the combat section. When a plate mail guy is squishy like a cloth type, and when melee classes make more damage than Mages or Rangers they got a few things wrong about games, I say.

They have it RIGHT actually.

Melee SHOULD do more damage than ranged. 

He takes more risks he is in melee range. Melee need to dodge more often , need to position better + takes damage from melle AND ranged attacks.

Ranged don't have to worry about most of these things.

Finally game that takes all that into account.

Of course you can boost ranged / nerf melee and you will have pew pew fest like in most mmorpg's.

I am not biased I am playing necro mostly that is ranged btw.

There are no tanks in this game as well , so don't know where you took it from ?

Heavy armor characters like Guardian and to lesser extent Warrior can usually take more beating than in example Elementalist or Mesmer.

It is all good actually.

Elikial - I respect many of your posts , but have you actually played GW2?

Scaling IS implemented and imho it scale preety well.  

It's in beta people.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that there are much balancing to come, and likely even many revisions of current systems. Perhaps even complete revamps.

We'll know what is different in a month when the next BWE comes around.

For now, don't take the bad from this BWE as fact. Much of it is likely to change before release.

That is the first rule of beta: Most things are subject to change.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by nordya
 

 

Those roles are still fun.

guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by nordya
 

 

Those roles are still fun.

guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

Yah ok, whatever dude...

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by nordya
 

 

Those roles are still fun.

guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

The underlined is true. Just because YOU didn't have a problem with it doesn't mean others didn't. Dodge did less then nothing in my case. In most cases after I dodged I warped back to where I started to begin with. 

Originally posted by Tayah
Please don't make fun, but which classes are considered melee? I notice even casters use axes and the sort.

My favorite thing to do was throw a torch at the ground , start a fire and throw axes through the flames catching them on fire for extra damage.....I was a Ranger that could hold onto the axes as well..Change the off hand torch to another ax and melee...so yes there is crossover...

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by nordya
 

 

Those roles are still fun.

guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

Yah ok, whatever dude...

Furthermore just moving from side to side worked for dodging some ranged attacks in PvE.

Originally posted by Sector13

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by nordya
 

 

Those roles are still fun.

guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

The underlined is true. Just because YOU didn't have a problem with it doesn't mean others didn't. Dodge did less then nothing in my case. In most cases after I dodged I warped back to where I started to begin with. 

That is a nasty little thing called lag. Another reason why beta exists. Stress testing.

I do believe we stressed the hell out of the servers =D

Which is good, by the way. Now they can tweak performance.

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by nordya
 

 

Those roles are still fun.

guardian for example, has short ranged combat, and short ranged support (other than a few elites). Just WASD into enemy and lay down the support and run out (or dodge out if you can do that with your current disability)

Dying gets annoying, but anybody can Rez you. So just try to stay near your team and away from enemy when it looks like you are about to go downed, or focus fired.

dodging doesn't really do much in most cases anyway, since you will still get hit.

the game could use more support focused players anyway. Just run around tossing buffs and shields. Or play ranged fighter. You are good to go.

The underlined is blatantly untrue. I played 3 classes and dodging worked on all 3. There is no range class and no melee class in GW2. Every class has melee and ranged capabilities. Some have more than others but all have both.

Yah ok, whatever dude...

Furthermore just moving from side to side worked for dodging some ranged attacks in PvE.

Ok, now that it utter BS. Moving side to side did NOTHING. Arrows would literally curve in air and still hit me. Quit lying out your @$$ and just let people tell their experiences with the game.