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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Combat too pew pew?

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58 posts found
  dontadow

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1048

4/30/12 9:20:30 AM#41

I keep hearing about melee being hard, but I still sayu thats people not mastering the dodge and moving away.  This is fluid combat. The way melee looks if u were really in a fight.  You don't see two people standing their and hitting one another ala a boxing match.  I had a melee engineer build. A medium class character. I used lotso f dodging in, getting a couple hits in and then dodging back out or knocking back the opponent or CC'ing him.

As others have said, cc and conditions are perfect, they are small timed and there togive u breatheres and plan your next attack. I didn't lose a single 1 on 1 battle in wvw, and i switched between tool belts and bombs mostly spiking the gound with nails sending opponents flying with bombs and a wrench, it was pretty fun. But i certainly had to play the game different. 

The problem is people not learning a new style of playy.  So melee gets you killed standing there for too long, not being observant and watching for the animations, not dodging at the right time. Melee is a challenge to play but rewarding with its increase in damage. IN a since, it's the new "burst" damage.  IF you have someone good at melee with you, you will own a lot of fights. 

  Dhaeman

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/03
Posts: 529

4/30/12 10:54:42 AM#42

The problem with a melee dodging and positioning in order to survive longer means you're not netting very much damage because of heals.

My experience is that 1v1 or 2v2 can last a long time because of the heals that are powerful. Group combat people die quickly when properly focused but I don't see why they shouldn't. A player with only his/her own buffs shouldn't be able to survive 5 equally geared/leveld people attacking him/her for very long.

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

4/30/12 11:35:34 AM#43
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by just1opinion
What heal are you guys using that's "bringing you back to full health?"  So far as I knew, no one had a heal that gave you any more than HALF health except really a necro......

every class has a self heal on slot number 6

 

I know this.  I played.  My question is.....WHICH heal heals for FULL HEALTH?  I know that my elementalist's self heal heals for HALF health.  I was not aware that some classes had full health heals.  Oh....and what I don't know....do those heals continue to scale with your level, because if not....they won't BE full heals for very long.

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

4/30/12 11:37:07 AM#44
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by just1opinion
What heal are you guys using that's "bringing you back to full health?"  So far as I knew, no one had a heal that gave you any more than HALF health except really a necro......

every class has a self heal on slot number 6

 

I know this.  I played.  My question is.....WHICH heal heals for FULL HEALTH?  I know that my elementalist's self heal heals for HALF health.  I was not aware that some classes had full health heals.  Oh....and what I don't know....do those heals continue to scale with your level, because if not....they won't BE full heals for very long.

I played ele and there was a heal that did at least 75% of my health heal. Keep in mind there are various heal skills per class.


  oakthornn

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 878

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4/30/12 2:14:28 PM#45

This is my 2 cents on the combat of GW2..

First, let me say I am an old school mmo gamer. My first MMOG was Ultima Online, followed by Asheron's Call, then the legendary Everquest... After my glory days in EQ, I bought pretty much every other mmo ever released including WoW... Now I played WoW off and on for like 5 years.. I have to admit the combat system and UI set up in WoW was probably one of the most polished and perfect combat system I ever played... WoW was also the last mmo I played before trying Guild Wars 2..

 

When I first logged into GW2 I was blown away with the graphics, atmosphere, terrain, and game world... It literally reminded me of being in Everquest, but better... Exploring the city, towns, etc was awesome... With that said, I was expecting everything from the graphics to the combat to be perfect... Well,,, In my honest opinion, It's not... To me, combat seems waaaay to fast. It feels as If my toon is lagging every second and all my attack animations are in super flash fast forward lag mode... This was my first impression for the first hour or so.. It's far different than the perfect smooth feeling of WoW where you know exactly what to do at all times. After playing WoW so long, you have the combat rotation down to a science.. In GW2, everything is new. We have to remember that were playing a totally different game so things will be different than they are in all of our other favorite mmorpg's..

After an hour or so, I began to get a better feel for the combat system.. Eventually, I started to become more comfortable and from there It didn't really bother me that much... However, I would like to see the combat animations slowed down, so I can actually have a better feel of my character's movements when performing attacks..

I played a thief and some of those abilities I'm just watching him zoom around like a pinball.. I don't mind it, but I feel it should be slowed down to look,,,, more realistic?

Overall, I like the game and had a lot fun playing this weekend. But that first hour I will admit I scratched my head thinking, omg wtf?!?! But as time went by as many of you said, I started to become used to the quick combat and from there a bit more comfortable with the combat system.. 

It's a new game and not every mmo released will have the same combat system as WoW.. If your going to play gw2, you'll have to learn to adapt or just decide not to play...  Do I feel things should be tweaked? Absolutely.. I'd love to see them slow things down some. But that's just me..

Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)

  Sikhander

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/03/08
Posts: 221

4/30/12 3:14:41 PM#46

To the OP: The game is the straight opposite of what you describe. Buffs/debuffs are EXTREMELY potent and hence a large part of your success (e.g. weakness - 50% of just getting glancing hits which is -50% dmg plus half endurance regeneration and so on).

Secondly, all damage can be avoided through dodges timed right and positioning making movement the most important parameter of both delivering and receiving damage. The implication is that all buffs/debuffs that effect movement are king.

Net-net: Your direct damage abilities are your third priority. Movement>>>debuffs/buffs>>>>>>direct damage

I saw alot of people during the week end that completely missed this however and played the game direct damage>>>movement>>>>>>debuffs/buffs which results in a huge lack of effectiveness. I found the game to have a huge depth due to this and look forward to PvP alot.

 

 

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

4/30/12 3:39:13 PM#47
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by just1opinion
What heal are you guys using that's "bringing you back to full health?"  So far as I knew, no one had a heal that gave you any more than HALF health except really a necro......

every class has a self heal on slot number 6

 

I know this.  I played.  My question is.....WHICH heal heals for FULL HEALTH?  I know that my elementalist's self heal heals for HALF health.  I was not aware that some classes had full health heals.  Oh....and what I don't know....do those heals continue to scale with your level, because if not....they won't BE full heals for very long.

I played ele and there was a heal that did at least 75% of my health heal. Keep in mind there are various heal skills per class.

 

Oh shoot, you're right....I forgot about the utility heals choices.  /facepalm   I didn't put points in any of those.  I suppose it might have been a good idea.  I only died 5 times in 10 levels though.  For this game, and for just starting....that didn't seem too excessive to me.  I'm still in that learning stage, after all.

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7735

Logic be damned!

4/30/12 3:55:04 PM#48

Because you aren't supposed to spam skills and CC someone to death.

That 2-3 second slow/CC/stun/interupt can and often does make the difference between win and loss.

 

My first time in a structured PvP match this weekend, as a Mesmer using a staff I took on 2 people and won.

I killed one and the other ran from me after he used his heal and I got him back down to low health.

 

Granted, they were probably just bad, but CC is short in this game for a reason.

 

Now Playing: Destiny

  Airwren

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/08
Posts: 654

4/30/12 4:05:00 PM#49
Originally posted by Sikhander

To the OP: The game is the straight opposite of what you describe. Buffs/debuffs are EXTREMELY potent and hence a large part of your success (e.g. weakness - 50% of just getting glancing hits which is -50% dmg plus half endurance regeneration and so on).

Secondly, all damage can be avoided through dodges timed right and positioning making movement the most important parameter of both delivering and receiving damage. The implication is that all buffs/debuffs that effect movement are king.

Net-net: Your direct damage abilities are your third priority. Movement>>>debuffs/buffs>>>>>>direct damage

I saw alot of people during the week end that completely missed this however and played the game direct damage>>>movement>>>>>>debuffs/buffs which results in a huge lack of effectiveness. I found the game to have a huge depth due to this and look forward to PvP alot.

 

 


This is a really good point and sadly for most of the weekend I think I fell into the group of folks who put my high damage abilities first in priority.  It didn't work out all that well.  On Sunday I spent some time really looking over how the debuff skills worked and started seeing that it was almost always wiser to think about buffs/debuffs first in relation to damage.  I tried this on the ranger I was playing to much greater success.  I'm looking forward to another beta weekend to try it out on other classes!

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2360

4/30/12 4:09:38 PM#50

Dunno what game you were playing, dude. Maybe it's just the way you were playing? My experience was the complete opposite. I killed by stacking confusion on my mesmer. In fact, between my necro friend and I, there was a noticeable speed increase in big boss characters dying when he and I got to the scene to help (in smaller events, hard to tell stuff like that in bigger ones where the HP pools rise dramatically), and we're both build for conditions and boons rather than raw damage. 

The classes are built differently, and within each class are a variety of additional builds depending on the skills you choose, the weapons you choose, and the traits you choose. Something as over-arching as "biggest DPS" wins doesn't really apply. Or did you mean like, there's no pure control, like mass sleeps or mass holds? GW1 didn't have that playstyle, I wouldn't expect GW2 to have it either, and neither sleeps nor holds cause damage in the first place, so still yes, of course the people who do the most damage per seconds are going to...well...do the most damage per second. There's still plenty of different ways to go about that, though.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  Monorojo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/08
Posts: 422

5/01/12 1:59:46 AM#51
Originally posted by Reehay
Originally posted by Archaegeo

Seems like the combat, and this affects all professions, boils down to who has the biggest dps hits.

The CC and debuffs and buffs are all so short lived that it feels pointless to cast them.

I think mostly it just feels like combat is way too fast.  You arent one-shotted, unless facing a veteran 3 levels over you due to scaling, but you are three seconded.

I know people hate in pvp when CC is overpowered or it feels like you are always locked down, but they specifically said pve was different than pvp, so why cant the pve cc have more of an effect?

i felt the exact same way... and i mentioned it in Local chat and about 10 fanboys and gals wanted to lynch me... rofl at these rabid zombie fans. 

but ya... combat is a meaningless blur of spamming your best DPS... very little reason for meaningful use of debuffs and CC's. dodge once and a while and dont get caught in AE. ooops im on fire? errr. 1 v 1 duels you can weave in special attacks and skills but in WvWvW... and  group vs group combat... pshhhh its just spam and pray and watch the kaleidescope of colors. 

and this is coming from someone who competes in amateur speed chess so dont anyone start explaining it away saying i must be an old fart with a slow mind and reflexes...

Feel the same way, PvP just seemede over simplistic and not innovative in anyw ay (As Anet promised...)

  User Deleted
5/01/12 3:27:21 AM#52
Originally posted by headphones
Originally posted by Archaegeo

Seems like the combat, and this affects all professions, boils down to who has the biggest dps hits.

The CC and debuffs and buffs are all so short lived that it feels pointless to cast them.

 

I think mostly it just feels like combat is way too fast.  You arent one-shotted, unless facing a veteran 3 levels over you due to scaling, but you are three seconded.

 

I know people hate in pvp when CC is overpowered or it feels like you are always locked down, but they specifically said pve was different than pvp, so why cant the pve cc have more of an effect?

i kinda like that cc is short lived.

i can't stand cc.

Me either.  The CC in GW2 is there to give you a tactical advantage but it is up to your skill as a player to ascertain whether or not you can take advantage of it.  So in short CC is needed but it isnt there to give you carte blanche upper handedness.

  likwidsage

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/07
Posts: 91

5/01/12 3:39:54 AM#53
Isn't low level PvP supposed to be a bit simple? Especially when everyone's soloing? I think when we get to higher levels, you'll see more complicated spells with conditions and boons. Not to mention an extra skill and well as an Elite skill.

  Voiidiin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/11
Posts: 827

Soylent green is made from PEOPLE

5/01/12 3:40:44 AM#54

Its actually refreshing to finally have a game where the PvP is not reliant on who has more CC.

SWTOR is a very recent example of this mechanic. 

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  lokiboard

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 200

5/01/12 3:46:08 AM#55
CC Vs. Kiting..............And the pendulum swings back....
  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3496

5/01/12 3:53:16 AM#56

I loved the combat. Being able to kite and dodge when really necessary meant I had actual control over the combat.

But certain situations are more difficult for melee though. In big mass fights, melee has the problem of being in the middle of AOE particles and a blob of mobs. Which makes it very difficult to see attacks coming. When you are ranged it is a lot easier to keep an eye on things and you can keep fighting while kiting. This also means if you combine it with CC, you can save your dodging for when it is really necessary.  A melee player has the problem that he doesn't get the chance to kit, not to mention that kiting as melee means not doing dmg. So there is only CC and dodge for them. There is no way to prevent constant dmg from trash mobs for a melee player.

I noticed after a while that with every large event I saw mainly ranged combat by players. It is just easier then melee in those massive fights. This is also why in PVE I only played Rifle and Bow after a while as warrior. There is simply no reason for melee in outdoors PVE.

Most of the players who say melee is just as fine as ranged are players who only played ranged combat. Try to spare your dodge energy as melee next time. Get used to being hit a lot more as melee :p

  drel

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/09
Posts: 923

5/01/12 3:55:47 AM#57
Originally posted by someforumguy

I loved the combat. Being able to kite and dodge when really necessary meant I had actual control over the combat.

But certain situations are more difficult for melee though. In big mass fights, melee has the problem of being in the middle of AOE particles and a blob of mobs. Which makes it very difficult to see attacks coming. When you are ranged it is a lot easier to keep an eye on things and you can keep fighting while kiting. This also means if you combine it with CC, you can save your dodging for when it is really necessary.  A melee player has the problem that he doesn't get the chance to kit, not to mention that kiting as melee means not doing dmg. So there is only CC and dodge for them. There is no way to prevent constant dmg from trash mobs for a melee player.

I noticed after a while that with every large event I saw mainly ranged combat by players. It is just easier then melee in those massive fights. This is also why in PVE I only played Rifle and Bow after a while as warrior. There is simply no reason for melee in outdoors PVE.

Most of the players who say melee is just as fine as ranged are players who only played ranged combat. Try to spare your dodge energy as melee next time. Get used to being hit a lot more as melee :p

I agree, I lthink in major combat, you can get lost with just the number of people involved and the spell effects that are going off. I found myself losing the NPC I was fighting against. 

It would be nice if there was some kind of targeting system where you could lock onto who you were fighting.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3496

5/01/12 3:57:06 AM#58

As for the CC. To me it seems as if its made like that mainly for ranged players. The short snare/root is all you need to be able to kite out of melee's range most of the time. Melee seems only more efficient if players are balled up (2hnd sword destroys then) or if there is no room to kite/dodge.

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