Lemme explain this to those who don't seem to get it yet.

If you payed for Beta then you would be buying the game over again upon release. Instead you purchased the game and are given early access in the form of Beta and head starts. Paying for beta is like what Path of Exile is doing, Where if you donate 10 dollars you are given a beta key.

Originally posted by travamars

Originally posted by Goggy

I can't believe people are saying they didn't pre-purchase to play the beta, but to just buy the game, that is absolute b****x!

 

If they didn't give you beta entry with your purchase, you wouldn't have paid for it, and 99% of other people wouldn't have either.

Yes but you'll never get them to admit it.

Or perhaps jaded angry people with nothing better to do than tear down games want to give that impression. Everyone I know that pre-ordered did it for the game, not for any beta access. Getting to be in beta weekends is a perk not a reason to purchase. Maybe some people just can't understand that concept. 

I bought the DDE edition and I could care less about the fluff items. I paid the extra money because I think Anet deserves it. I would have purchased the collectors edition but the physical items would just go to waste burried in a box. When I hit the purchase button, beta had nothing to do with it. 

Any company whatsoever that offers a pre-order with no ability to cancel deserves any flack they get regardless of said issue or confusion etc... Any business, any item, regardless. If not in hand... refund if desired... End of story..

And to those that care, you have consumer rights.. use them and get your refund. If you used a credit card, contact your bank and you'll see just what rights you have on non tangible pre ordered items...  You also have state consumer laws...

Any company can say anything, their statements do not trump laws.. But you have to do the legwork.

Have a nice day all.

What a joke.....

They did not charge for beta. They give away tons of free beta keys wihout having to even buy the game.

They gave you the option to pay in full to get a beta key. Why don't they want to offer a refund? Because you can now access all betas with that key or you can sell the key and make money off of it even.

You could have pre-ordered(and wait to pay when it ships) and just wait til the game releases also. They did not force you to pay in full, you wanted to try the beta and it said it ahead of time that it was non-refundable.

READ things before you pay or sign to avoid problems. I am sure you can still cancel by calling up credit card, etc. but they did nothing wrong, you did.

BTW this game is the best MMORPG I have played to date as far as a rea living world and the detail they put into each area, city and even NPCs living their lives in front of you. Sorry to see you did not enjoy it.

Originally posted by Ulorik

For me this Beta weekend had been an absolute desaster. Out of two days trying to get into the game I have managed to actually play for a full hour, and that happened to be at 4am this morning.

The forums are full of people suffering a wide variety of technical problems. In other betas you may have had 2 or 3 main technical problems which the dev team can concentrate on, here there seem to be dozens of different problems going on at the same time.

Technically this game is not even at an acceptable beta stage and I regret having given Anet my money already now as the inability of the tech team to deal with all those problems does not bode well for release.

You didn't pay to test the game.  You pre ordered the game.  That means you get it when it is released.  They were just nice enough to let you test it.  Your attitude reeks of unwarranted entitlement.   Game worked perfectly fine after Saturday at 5:00 pm PST.  If you had problems after that they are your own.  Since this was a stress test, they figured out that they lacked the capacity and took down the servers early saturday and when they put them back up with improvements, the game ran as it was supposed to.

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Originally posted by Ulorik
For me this Beta weekend had been an absolute desaster. Out of two days trying to get into the game I have managed to actually play for a full hour, and that happened to be at 4am this morning.
The forums are full of people suffering a wide variety of technical problems. In other betas you may have had 2 or 3 main technical problems which the dev team can concentrate on, here there seem to be dozens of different problems going on at the same time.
Technically this game is not even at an acceptable beta stage and I regret having given Anet my money already now as the inability of the tech team to deal with all those problems does not bode well for release.

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Well i will be honest if i was only able to play for an hour i would have be pretty pissed as well. I didn't liked much to see the login server melting Friday night, especially in a beta based mostly on pre purchase invite. Also the login melted Saturday night but they fixed it in like 2 hours (which is a super quick recover i can tell you), maybe you only tried to play at this time? At that rhythm it won't crash anymore in few beta :p

Now i had pretty much no issues, i played all the week end. A little bug here and there, like the WvW queue not working very well, but overall the game was bug-less. Believe me, i played a lot of beta since Uo beta, and this last gen of mmo at least since Rift have very good quality beta, it doesn't mean the games were that good. But the beta really were all good, its clear they got the AoC/Vanguard bag of bug fiasco message this time, i hope it will last. You should have tried some of the older mmo, where you would like go throw the world all the time, couldn't even trigger skills, would have your toon freeze all the time for no reasons... GW2 beta was as good as the few last beta i was in. Yes people report problems in the beta forum, but those are made for this, and pretty much none are game breaking. Some people probably had heavy problem like you, i won't contest that, but i really think it was a small minority.

Also you should report all the problems you had, because if you couldn't play but one hour, you should have had a very long list to report.

What's most sad, and comical, are those who claim that Anet used questionable language to compel people to do something they otherwise would not have done.   This is possible in the case of an infintesimal number of people but the vast majority would buy the game when it was released.  You can try to claim this isn't true, but you're not honest in your appraisal of the situation if that's your position.

They (perhaps) fail to realize they only way they arrive at this position is by thinking they're smarter than someone who pre-purchased and all for fallacious justification that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.   It's transparent and I feel pity for them that their lives are reduced to this. 

Here's the real reason the pre-purchase was offered:    This gets Anet guaranteed income for the Q2 P&L of this year.  Nothing more.  Sorry, it's not a ponzi scheme or extra revenue that they wouldn't have received anyway.  

Offering the beta access as part of the pre-purchase allows them to kill two birds with one stone:  Get guaranteed revenue on the books and increase testing to collect volume data, which is crucial to making many technical and aesthetic decisions which are forthcoming for them.

Anyone who claims otherwise simply isn't educated in how business works, their judgement is impaired by some bias or they're sociopaths who derive their own self worth by trying to belittle people on the internet.   Actually, in my experience, it's likely a combination of all three.

Originally posted by Ulorik

For me this Beta weekend had been an absolute desaster. Out of two days trying to get into the game I have managed to actually play for a full hour, and that happened to be at 4am this morning.

The forums are full of people suffering a wide variety of technical problems. In other betas you may have had 2 or 3 main technical problems which the dev team can concentrate on, here there seem to be dozens of different problems going on at the same time.

Technically this game is not even at an acceptable beta stage and I regret having given Anet my money already now as the inability of the tech team to deal with all those problems does not bode well for release.

This is what a Beta is for, would you rather see the game buggy with time to fix the issues at hand, as an experience beta tester I can tell you this beta was phenominal, very little of the usual errors.  When you enter a beta test of a game you have several errors such as mobs appearing to be in oneplace while they are attacking you in another, various graphics errors and bleed through, boundry issues sometimes you fall through the ground, True the game isn't finished buts its DAMN close.  Also if you payed just to play a beta you were doomed to be disappointed.

Originally posted by Ulorik

For me this Beta weekend had been an absolute desaster. Out of two days trying to get into the game I have managed to actually play for a full hour, and that happened to be at 4am this morning.

The forums are full of people suffering a wide variety of technical problems. In other betas you may have had 2 or 3 main technical problems which the dev team can concentrate on, here there seem to be dozens of different problems going on at the same time.

Technically this game is not even at an acceptable beta stage and I regret having given Anet my money already now as the inability of the tech team to deal with all those problems does not bode well for release.

Time to trash the E-Machine and buy or build a real computer...

;-)

This entire thread seems to be dancing around the core issue which is: Am I and others truely responsible for our purchases or do we abdicate that responsibility to corporate entities. By believing that yourself and others are so easily swayed by advertising, with no volition of your own, you are putting the moral responsibility of your actions in the hands of marketing companies. "They made me buy it!" is the howl of person who is not mature enough to navigate an adult commoditized world where items cost and expectations are not met. The OP needs to ask itself if they are stonger than that, and do they think others are stronger than that? The answer will say more about the OP thatn it will about Anet's methods. 

Either take responsibility for your own disappointment or accept the truth that you are a consumerist drone with no free purchasing power. You can't have it both ways.

Holy crap, bugs ina  beta? AND techinical issues?

Man, when are these companies going to learn, that betas shouldnt have any bugs since they arnt betas they are headstarts.

Oh wait, they are betas, and betas, pretty much by definition have bugs, get over it, and really, if you buy anything for a beta your a fool that deserves to lose his money.

I didn't pay to test.  I bought the game becasue I want the game.  The only thing the Beta affected is WHEN I bought it. 

If you paid just to test a game you are um well I can't really say it in a way that isn't insulting so I will refrain.

Anet offered a perk to people who are entusiastic about the game.  That you took it the wrong way is on you.

Originally posted by gestalt11

I didn't pay to test.  I bought the game becasue I want the game.  The only thing the Beta affected is WHEN I bought it. 

 

If you paid just to test a game you are um well I can't really say it in a way that isn't insulting so I will refrain.

 

Anet offered a perk to people who are entusiastic about the game.  That you took it the wrong way is on you.

Same here. I bought the game because I want it and its a bonus to be able to play it in beta. But if Anet decided not to do beta and just release it then I am sure we would all buy it anyways.

Originally posted by kaco

Originally posted by gestalt11

I didn't pay to test.  I bought the game becasue I want the game.  The only thing the Beta affected is WHEN I bought it. 

 

If you paid just to test a game you are um well I can't really say it in a way that isn't insulting so I will refrain.

 

Anet offered a perk to people who are entusiastic about the game.  That you took it the wrong way is on you.

Same here. I bought the game because I want it and its a bonus to be able to play it in beta. But if Anet decided not to do beta and just release it then I am sure we would all buy it anyways.

 I want to note I didn't do this blindly.  There was enough information from video to let me in on the game features and its approximate state.  I also have a good deal of respect for Anets ability to do things well.

I wasn't concerned that it would be a game I wouldn't enjoy.  I am now not concerned at all.

Of course I was also expecting at least one un-usable day since this was their first real stress test.

Anyone who thinks they could magically figure out their problems BEFORE stress testing is just silly.  Every setup like this always has one day ruined by lag for one reason or another.  That people are throwing hissy fits is sad.  Two weeks before release fine.  The very first high volume Beta?  get real.

I didn't pay for the beta.  I payed early for a game I was going to buy anyway.   Getting access to the beta was a bonus for me spending my money in April rather than sometime between June and December.  The only difference is WHEN Anet got my money, not IF.

So, you started the whole thread with a fallacy.  If you didn't enjoy the beta, relax, it's just a test.  It's not the final product.  If this were the final product then, yes, the issues you had would be something to really bitch about.

Originally posted by Puremallace

Originally posted by travamars

Originally posted by Goggy

I can't believe people are saying they didn't pre-purchase to play the beta, but to just buy the game, that is absolute b****x!

 

If they didn't give you beta entry with your purchase, you wouldn't have paid for it, and 99% of other people wouldn't have either.

Yes but you'll never get them to admit it.

People are pissed because when Bioware said open beta MMORPG.com or Massively has little codes they handed out and you ACTUALLY GOT IN WITHOUT HAVING TO BUY THE GAME. When Rift said OPEN beta they had little codes also.

 

This was a CLOSED BETA to people who had bought the game plain and simple. Hell ever at that they even cut off people who wanted to pay by limiting the digital collectors edition. I hope ArenaNET realizes they cannot do this during the live release.....oh wait they can because BUY TO PLAY does not hold the developer accountable for their actions.

Except, of course, the beta weekend event wasn't just locked to pre-purchasers only. It guarantees access to the weekend events, but you don't have to pre-purchase the title to get in.

As for the temporary restriction on the Digital editions, they warned people in advance about it. You don't sell a room to five thousand people knowing only half of them will fit in there, and just barely. Its a way for them to control the amount of people getting into the servers sure, but its to make sure the servers can handle it, and can be updated and adjusted as necessary.

Also, and this is just to note something, there was a set of emails that got sent out claiming people where allowed into the beta, even when they originally weren't. Instead of just telling them too bad, Arena Net actually allowed them in.

But of course, I wouldn't expect someone who got banned for repeated trolling/personal attacks on several sites to really know what they are talking about.

Originally posted by Ulorik

For me this Beta weekend had been an absolute desaster. Out of two days trying to get into the game I have managed to actually play for a full hour, and that happened to be at 4am this morning.

The forums are full of people suffering a wide variety of technical problems. In other betas you may have had 2 or 3 main technical problems which the dev team can concentrate on, here there seem to be dozens of different problems going on at the same time.

Technically this game is not even at an acceptable beta stage and I regret having given Anet my money already now as the inability of the tech team to deal with all those problems does not bode well for release.

1) I was able to play for almost the entire weekend, as did many other people as it was very well-populated.

2) How many betas have you been in? I've been in a lot and a wide range of technical problems are common.

3) This game is very much in a beta state. The content is mostly bug-free (I had one instance where my personal story wouldn't progress, but all I did was run back to the beginning of the cave and kill a few more mobs, then it worked). There was lag, but show a beta that doesn't have that. I think the game is shaping up very nicely.

You paid to buy the game, not to test their game. You knew what you were getting into, the risks you were taking, when you gave them your money. Don't QQ now because you aren't happy with the state of the game. Suck it up, buttercup.

I posted this in another thread, but it fits here as well:

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While I may not entirely agree with it, I can see a couple reasons why they did it, from a testing stand point and a business stand point.

The most obvious reason why they opened up prepurchasing for beta would be to begin getting a return on their investment in the game. The sooner you make up how much you invested in development, the sooner you begin making a profit, the sooner you can get to work on the next expansion, etc. They knew they had lots of people interested in buying the game, so why not just exploit that a bit and begin making money. Remember, they are a business first. As the consumer, it's falls on you to do your research and know what you are getting for your money. I thought it was clear that with the ~BETA~ weekends, not everything will run OK at first.

Another reason I can see them doing it is to guarantee a return of customers weekend after weekend, up to release to guarantee they have enough people to stress test. Lets put it this way, if they just opened up beta to every person and their dog, people would play say "what is this...I don't even..." and quit, despite the fact IT'S BETA. So by forcing people to pay, unless you are lucky enough to get in through the selection, you are pretty much guaranteeing people will come back the next event. This will allow them to continue to stress test the server, and fine tune things. We'll probably see that the next event, the game will be MUCH better than it is now.

If you, as a consumer, are not going to try to make sure you get the best return on YOUR investment by giving them feedback where necessary, then you might want to rethink how you spend your money. If you payed full price for the game, don't just exit out of those blue things that pop up. Actually rate things, and use those little comment things. Also report bugs you see. By doing this, you guarantee that the each chance you get to play, it'll be a little better up through release. Once release hits, you'll have an awesome game!
But ultimately it falls to us as the consumer to be responsible for your own money. Businesses, even ArenaNet, will do whatever it takes to get your money. It's your responsibility to know what exactly you are spending your money on. It's ALWAYS foolish to spend money on a product before you have it permanently (yes I'm being hypocritical here, but you get my point). Before you bought the game, you should have realized that as soon as you saw 'guaranteed beta access', that you'll get access to a version of the game that's NOT COMPLETE. When it's not complete, IT WILL HAVE BUGS, LAG, ETC.. If you didn't realize that that's apart of what you'll be getting for your money until release, then you have no one else to blame but yourself.

NOTE: I am not defending Anet's methodology, nor am I hating on Anet's methodology. I'm completely neutral on the matter. I'm just playing devils advocate and am not getting worked up over something that's not even released. IF there were these problems on release, then I'd understand the outrage.

[...] I'll include a TL;DR version:
Anet is a business first. It's your responsibility as a consumer to know what you are signing up for before you hand out cash. It's your responsibility to ensure the game can run on your computer, on your interent connection, in it's pre-release state before purchase.

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