Yes, having to stare at a login screen for hours to only see annoying errors pop up, sucks big time. No doubt about it. Anet also definately wanted you to access the game so you could experience it. They did sell you the prepurchase partly based on access to beta. Still, this is beta and shit happens in beta. On the other hand, this also will mean that the next beta event will probably run a lot smoother. And of course, the game release.

So yes, Anet failed to anticipate something that is very difficult to anticipate (it is one of the most common things with new games and the first time loads of ppl simultanously try to login).

But I also don't agree with the apologists that Anet never promised game access during beta. That is simply bullshit. It was part of their salespitch. Apologists should understand that the way it was going this weekend is something that Anet never wanted to happen. So I think that Arenanet failed in their own eyes too. I expect the typical reaction along the lines of 'this could've gone better'.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Distopia

Many people can't even get as far as logging into their account. So those people (I"m sure a majority of those raising hell) have not gained access (while everyone else has). Should they be a little more understanding? Possibly, at the same time so could you and the rest of those raising hell about those raising hell. All you're doing is making this forum worse.

This isn't about crashing issues, game-play or game related bugs, it's about account infrastructure. The systems are available, yet their accounts are not, for those people what they were guaranteed is not being delivered, if that weren't the case many of these threads would not exist.

How is it hard to understand this? Or is it a matter of having to concede to a point?

Yeah, ANETs login server was really bad yesterday but it seems some people still have some issues.

Lets hope anet fix that for them as well, almost all players had issues yesterday so it is at least getting better.

It generally took me 10 minutes to log on yesterday. Today I have been logged on right away every time, and yesterday I had some in game lag, nothing at all today (except for 10 seconds anfter I just into a zone in some cases),

Glad to hear that some are resolving their issues, as someone said earlier it's good (well.. you'll know what I mean) that issues like this pop up in beta, as it can hopefully be avoided at launch. I doubt we'd see this type of reaction if it couldn't be seen as paying to access this "reward". Which is what I view as the real issue here, I'm not calling it anything personally as I am not eligible for it, but when your sole reasoning to buy something at a time, is for this "reward", it's not hard to imagine feeling entitled to that "reward".

What other motivation would many have to pre-order outside of gaining these perks? Sure there may be a few who did it to support A-net, but outside of that there's little other reason. If you're buying it for the "game", you can just buy it at launch. If this weren't a reward weekend BWE, I'd be on the other side most likely, but that's not the case.

Many assume they get perks like this regardless of guarantees, just look back at the TOR forums during later stages of Beta, lots of complaints about "pre=ordering" but not being given beta access. No surprise that it's worse when it's supposed to be a reward for your support.

Originally posted by Sarethor

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Sarethor

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Bladestrom

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

What does "Beta" have to do with it? Call it Alpha, Beta, Call it Omega for all I care. What ever it is, ANet guaranteed people could see it if they paid. People paid to see this "Beta" which ANet guarnteed and did not deliver. You say "It's Beta" They say, "Yeah, I know, I paid to see it and can't" 

"But it's Beta" You should expect problems"

"Yeah I know, I paid for, and was guaranteed access to see, those Problems and I can't"

"But It's Beta You should expect issues"

"Yeah I know, I paid for, and was guaranteed access to see, those issues and I can't"

"But it's Beta, you need to expect things won't run smoothly"

"Yeah I know, I paid for, and was guaranteed access to see, what doesn't run smoothly and I can't"

Whatever it is, people were guaranteed. And ANet failed them.

 

Beta is not about server access, it's about testing the code. Every time my company issues beta testing to our potential customers, We kinda make sure they can access the application to actually test something.

 

People are trying to redefine what a Beta is so as to give Anet their "out" for breaking their own guarntee.

 

You didnt pay for the beta, you paid for the game.  Having issues in Beta does not mean the game is poor, it means you found a bug for them to fix in beta, and helped improve the quality of the very product you paid for - get it?

 

OK having issues in Beta. Yes, I agree. But these peopel can't even see the issues in Beta. They are beta testing GW2, not the login servers. You people do not understand, There is a difference between testing hardware and software. Beta is a software test. Not a hardware test.

as for Paying for the game and not beta. Read this.

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/game-faq/#forty-three

 

What is Pre-Purchase?

Customers who pre-purchase the game pay for the game in full and will enjoy guaranteed access to our Beta Weekend Events, three-day Headstart Access to the final game, and the Hero's Band digital item designed to enhance your gameplay experience.

 

Funny thing is, All they had to do was change the wording a little. But ANet in their own arrogance is gonna come out of this weekend with a few shitstains on themselves. And all the White Knights and Straw Men won't change that.

 

I did not pre purchase, I had no plan to be in beta, But It really irritates me when the developers can wrong people and then when they speak up about it, they are told it's their fault for not knowing it's beta. When Beta testing GW2 has nothing to do with network and hardware issues on the host side.

Why would you say that beta testing is a client-only software exercise?  In context to GW2 - how do you propose to compartmentalize a system which has heavy client/server and network infrastructure so as to test them purely independent of each other?   That happens internally at a negligible volume of users.

It's a very myopic view and it appears you're not objective and reacting instead of reasoning, especially given your purported profession. 

I would say that stress testing the associated hardware/network infrastructure has historically come last and very late in development cycles and that's led to significant  issues at launch for almost every AAA title (and others).   I don't see how doing it concurrently really detracts from the volume or quality of data collected.  Obviously, if the login servers were down for 3 days they'd get no other data but that's not been the case.

I don't have to propose anything. That's a problem that belongs to Anet. They made the offer, people took them up on it in good faith and put up their money as prof and guess what.......

I can tell you that my job requires me to track, identify and document software defects. I know you could really care less, but it does support the fact tha tI know what I am talking about. Beta is not hardware. The problems with access are harware. This is what I do. I just do it after release instead of in beta, but the process is the same. Fact is, It's NEVER about hardware.

 

The optimization issues, the FPS issues the lag issues. All the stuff people are bitching about in the game.....That's beta. And that, no one has a right to bitch about really. Because for them, the term "It's Beta, what do you expect does in fact apply and they need to suck it up." Those who did not get to enjoy the weekend due to Host issues, has nothing to do with beta. And none of this will prevent my from buying the game after release so long as they do what htey are suppoesed to and fix it. But again, Not related to login servers. Login Servers have nothing to do with GW2 code.

 

You can defend ANet all you want. They screwed up this weekend. That's what a Beta is. Software testing to ID issues in Code. Not hardware. As for the prior poster, You are redefining what "Beta Access" means so you can justify ANet's free pass on this mess when you should be holding them accountable so they don't do more stuff like this. Come on. Guaranteed access is guaranteed access. You gotit or you didn't. It's ANet's words, not my interpretation, they should have put in some wiggle room if that's what they needed, They didn't.

Thanks for validating that you're not objective.  Why was it not obvious? Yyeah, this corporate shit pissing on the consumer, yeah. Which BTW has little to do with how I feel about GW2 itself My issue is with ANet. 

Perhaps it's stemming from this whole perspective that they've taken advantange of people in a premeditated way.   I'm going try to address what you said.

 

First, you have no way of specifically knowing what the real root cause of the log in servers being down was, and likely never will.  To say that it's hardware because that's how it (always?) is where you work is an appealing to authority fallacy (as you seemed to like to mention fallacies earlier)  and ignores both the potential and actual differences in context between your professional situation and what occurred today within this game. 

It's really not a difficult concpet. Not being able to log into an environment precludes beta testing a product.

 About Alpha/Beta testing in general: 

In your own personal, job-specific context - and at the level which you work - I won't disagree that your definition makes sense.  That said, when you go up several levels hierarchically, in any complex system with interrelating parts/functions/software/hardware, one can and will affect the other(s). 

What you are describing here is called the OSI Model. Beta Testing occurs at Layer 7, The Application Layer. Logins occur at Layer 5, the Session Layer. Not the same.

  For a very complex system like GW2, short of knowing Anet's specific, targeted goals for a session,

This is ANet's problem...Not the thousands of people who paid for something and got shafted.

I'd say beta testing means testing all systems and subsystems that are available within whatever particular build are being tested.  For a game which requires you to log in, that means the log in systems are part of it.   Whatever data is collected, if it highlights problematic or potentially problematic areas, then the test has fulfilled it's purpose.

 

The word ANet used in thier marketing was "Access" to the BWE. That means Layer 7 not Layer 5.

 

Now, If a set of server hardware (or router, etc) died, that's most probably bad luck, period.   It's not part and parcel of the overall readiness testing which Beta is the (typically) final part but, as reliability goes, a function of probability vs time.  To say that it means Anet misled its customers is ridiculous in the extreme. Because they  had a random failure of some hardware that its systems were running on?   Please.  Short of negligence, they no more can control that than they can the orbit of the moon.

How can you say...In this very post..."First, you have no way of specifically knowing what the real root cause of the log in servers being down was, and likely never will." (Which BTW, I kinda do) and then turn around and ignore it yourself......and then make assumptions about it?  Either way, It's ANet's problem, not the customer who paid. didn't we just see this same type of situation over in the SWTOR threads aout 1.2 failing hard? Wasn't everyone all over them for this? Really? Anet gets a free pass though?

This doesn't even speak to what's going on behind the scenes to which we have no insight.  As a wild swag example:  Perhaps a very specific concurrent user test was done in-situ on the log in hardware and it caused the crash.  They kept the log in systems down while adding parallel capacity to handle it.  This type of test would allow them to figure out what their cliffs are with the current software (yes, there's actually software - which might have bugs - on the log in hardware) running on the level of hardware available purely for access to the backend.  I'd challenge you to recognize the possible differences between your own experience and what's transpiring here.

I really could care less what happens behind the scene. Anet had an obligation to provide a service to custoemrs and they didn't. Not to all equally.

 

In closing, nothing that occured today is a strong argument that Arenanet was either negligent or underhanded in their marketing or organization of the event.  Naturally it's a shame that perhaps not everyone who'd like to have tested the game was able.  If someone had a very limited window of their own personal time and the servers were down during that period, that's bad luck and nothing more.  Anyone trying to make a conspiracy out of it is utterly lost their objectivity or have an ulterior motive.

 Strawman Argument. No one said this was willful. It was, however, a failure that was brought about by their arrogance. Really, all they had to do was be a little more cautious with how they worded their pre purchase access from teh begnning.

 

Post Edit:

I can't believe this whole post is because we have to argue over what Beta Testing and isn't and what  system access means.

It's so obvious right now, With this stuff. Behind every White Knight, is a Straw Man.

Originally posted by Blackwater56
They should make the age requirment of Betas like 40+ years old

guess that would exclude you ... mr 32 year old! lol

Actually, didn't ANet suspend digital sales of GW2 because they wanted to control how many people will access the beta?

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

*snip*

Post Edit:

I can't believe this whole post is because we have to argue over what Beta Testing and isn't and what  system access means.

 

It's so obvious right now, With this stuff. Behind every White Knight, is a Straw Man.

Indeed, obvious. 

I'm no white knight, unless you're speaking about logic and reason.  The fact is the fundamental premise for your argument is flawed; incorrect, actually.   The irony is how often you seem to quote a straw man but the best example one is actual quote itself, among other things.

I wish you luck with your anger and subsequent inability to reason.  Even if you never admit it here, I hope you can find some quiet time, reflect and realize the errors in your thinking.

---

Originally posted by Sarethor

Indeed, obvious. 
I'm no white knight, unless you're speaking about logic and reason.  The fact is the fundamental premise for your argument is flawed; incorrect, actually.   The irony is how often you seem to quote a straw man but the best example one is actual quote itself, among other things.
 
I wish you luck with your anger and subsequent inability to reason.  Even if you never admit it here, I hope you can find some quiet time, reflect and realize the errors in your thinking.

---

Agreed, his "reasoning" is hilarious at best.

Anything needed to make GW2 happen will run through development cycle and be tested as it is part of the system Anet is working on/with.

It is really no brainer.

What I find funny about all this.We have a data center where we host our software for some of our clients. We install the application on our servers and set up SSL and or VPN access for the customers to ahve exclusinve access to the program. 

and at some point, they will report an issue. We will go in analyze the problem, make the needed adjustments and then ask them to test the changes to make sure they work. It just so happens that on occasion, we would ask the customer if they had the chance to test the corrections and we get the response, No we couldn't test. We had trouble logging in because the VPN went down or the SSL cert expired on the web server or something like that. It's because accessing the softare, is not testing the softare. ANet guaranteed "access" the logins are considered the access part. the part that was guaranteed and not delivered.

Well, that's how it works in the industry, Obvously not in your misconceptions but hey, Delusions are a wonderful thing because you are never wrong and everyone who doesn't share your delusion is.

I'm not surprised that you found that hilarious. Otherwise you'd have to admit ANet failed at something.

On friday i felt EXACTLY like you. But since saturday everything changed. I could login and enter the game on the first try and i never got a crash or a d/c.

 Excepting friday this is the BEST beta weekend ever! For me atleast

Originally posted by CristianCeo

On friday i felt EXACTLY like you. But since saturday everything changed. I could login and enter the game on the first try and i never got a crash or a d/c.

 Excepting friday this is the BEST beta weekend ever! For me atleast

Just for the record, I am not arguing against the quality of the game itself. I am still anxious to play it.

I am, arguing against some of the business practices surrounding the game.

---

Originally posted by GeezerGamer
What I find funny about all this.We have a data center where we host our software for some of our clients. We install the application on our servers and set up SSL and or VPN access for the customers to ahve exclusinve access to the program. 
and at some point, they will report an issue. We will go in analyze the problem, make the needed adjustments and then ask them to test the changes to make sure they work. It just so happens that on occasion, we would ask the customer if they had the chance to test the corrections and we get the response, No we couldn't test. We had trouble logging in because the VPN went down or the SSL cert expired on the web server or something like that. It's because accessing the softare, is not testing the softare. ANet guaranteed "access" the logins are considered the access part. the part that was guaranteed and not delivered.
 
Well, that's how it works in the industry, Obvously not in your misconceptions but hey, Delusions are a wonderful thing because you are never wrong and everyone who doesn't share your delusion is.
 
I'm not surprised that you found that hilarious. Otherwise you'd have to admit ANet failed at something.

---

Someone supposedly being so knowledgeable and still not understanding the difference between availability and access?

"Delusions are a wonderful thing..."

Absolute desaster for me. I have had one period of 1 hour on Sat morning 4 - 5 am where I was actually able to get into the game, Otherwise staring at a 100% area login screen or getting disconnected with a 7:11:3 error after about 10 seconds.

So for me it was absolutely unplayable

This constant error has not been remedied and there are tons of different errors people are expereincing, quite worrying.

The best thing about it is that this error is supposed to be happening to people playing from a campus/uni network, but hey, here I am sitting in my home in Glasgow, and my ISP is reassuring me that I'm not using a college network, given the ammount I pay for my ADSL ;)

 Hope they keep the beta forums up so we can get some reports about progress in between betas

I had horribad login issues on Friday, but Sat and Sun morning before I left for work were great.

To be honest I was really impressed overall and had a, mostly, positive experience. It's beta still and they have the game intentionally CPU bound for debugging purposes, which is why the game seems to perform poorly at times. They will not launch with it like that, so I feel quite positive about the current state of the beta and cannot wait for the next BWE.

Omg ! haha some guys(kids) here don't know what is a beta ! U WERE NOT PLAYING A RELEASED GAME !!!! 

Seriously, stop to complain about crashes and login problems  !!

It was A BETA : "Software in the beta phase will generally have many more bugs in it than completed software, as well as speed/performance issues" wiki

True, pegi 12 is not enough, when u see ppl complaining like that !

Go play tera, kids :D

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by GeezerGamer
What I find funny about all this.We have a data center where we host our software for some of our clients. We install the application on our servers and set up SSL and or VPN access for the customers to ahve exclusinve access to the program. 
and at some point, they will report an issue. We will go in analyze the problem, make the needed adjustments and then ask them to test the changes to make sure they work. It just so happens that on occasion, we would ask the customer if they had the chance to test the corrections and we get the response, No we couldn't test. We had trouble logging in because the VPN went down or the SSL cert expired on the web server or something like that. It's because accessing the softare, is not testing the softare. ANet guaranteed "access" the logins are considered the access part. the part that was guaranteed and not delivered.
 
Well, that's how it works in the industry, Obvously not in your misconceptions but hey, Delusions are a wonderful thing because you are never wrong and everyone who doesn't share your delusion is.
 
I'm not surprised that you found that hilarious. Otherwise you'd have to admit ANet failed at something.

---

 

Someone supposedly being so knowledgeable and still not understanding the difference between availability and access?

"Delusions are a wonderful thing..."

What?????

Go do some research.

Availability iis a term referring to server up and down times. The availability was there, Access was not.

Please don't throw around tech terms like you know what you are talking about. 

You don't.

Edit: Really, How fare do you need to dig in order to redefine what "guaranteed Access" to a BWE means so that ANet doesn't have to take any responsibility for charging money for something they didn't provide? Really, going all the way to try to define "Availability" vs "Access"? "Guaranteed Access" was the term used by Anet. Trying to swap that out with "Availability" is what is delusional. If Availability was the issue, things would hae been a hell of a lot more rocky, and I'd bet you'd be here bitchin since you wouldn't have gotten into the BWE either as if Availability was down, no one would have.

I don't know what's worse, corporate arrogance, or the ignorance that justifies it.

Fortunately, we can safely assume this is/was a temporary issue that will not persist into the live version and in no way has any impact on the quality of the game itself...or so, I continue to believe..Unless I start seeing more red flags as time moves closer to release.

Best beta in memory. 

Sorry for those of you who had issues but I had a f*cking blast from Friday afternoon until Monday morning.  The amount of time I spent in overflow, even at the very end of the event (3am for me) tells me that there were a ton of other people who were likewise having a blast.  My server was bursting at the seams almost since I first logged in so even though the complaints are loud (as always), the majority were logging in just fine and playing the hell out of the game.