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Guild Wars 2

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General Discussion  » Your right. it isn't pay to win. It's....

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252 posts found
  Banisco

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/11
Posts: 241

I like to play with trolls.

4/28/12 4:25:49 PM#41
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Banisco
Originally posted by Atlan99

It is definitely pay for an edge. The 10% defense bonus, 50% xp bonus and 50% karma bonus will all give an edge. There are more those are just the ones that stand out.

In WvWvW a server could give itself a huge edge by buying gems and selling them for gold. It would give them an inexhaustible supply of seige weapons and keep defenses.

It really depends on where you draw the line for where Pay 2 Win starts.

I dont think those boosts work on WvW, also you can buy all the blueprints you want but without no supply or help to build them you are just wasting the money, in WvW what matters is the supply not the gold and you cant buy supply.

Karma boost and the defense boost bothe currently work in PvP.

Obviously, however right now supply is not an issue. There is always lots of it everywhere. Those siege units and keep defenses however make all the difference in WvWvW. 


As everyone gets maxed (lvl 80) there is no point for exp boosts, also the karma only works in PvE. About the siegues, the easiest part of setting one is buying the blueprint, you need the supply and if your oponents are clever they wont let you get it, also they can destroy the building place and the sigue weapon, so the point is that if your oponents know what they are doing, the money doesnt matter.

  User Deleted
4/28/12 4:29:19 PM#42

Those chests drop crap, so if your looking for power move along...the stuff in those boxes are fluff.

 

Now did they nix the 12 slot bags from the cash shop?  I dont see it up there which is a shame because that is one of the most convinent items to buy and I play on buying 4-5 bags for every alt I make.

  Terrorizor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 337

4/28/12 4:31:07 PM#43
Originally posted by Torqia

Its Pay to not be annoyed...

So you need to pay real money to open lockboxes.... sigh

Yes that isnt pay to win but if you dont pay, your gonna feel like you cant get the items you grinded for and that would piss me off terribly.

Yes they need to make money but i for one HATE HATE HATE this model. 

I HATE HATE HATE people that make assumptions rather then finding out the truth.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

4/28/12 4:33:26 PM#44
I got potions that turned me into a table. Others into trees.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  UngoHumungo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/05
Posts: 522

I'm here......wheres the fish?

4/28/12 4:34:34 PM#45
Originally posted by Torqia

Its Pay to not be annoyed...

So you need to pay real money to open lockboxes.... sigh

Yes that isnt pay to win but if you dont pay, your gonna feel like you cant get the items you grinded for and that would piss me off terribly.

Yes they need to make money but i for one HATE HATE HATE this model. 


there was nothing in the shop other than cosmetics that you could get from a mob or quest reward

 

There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

4/28/12 4:35:32 PM#46
Originally posted by Banisco
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Banisco

As everyone gets maxed (lvl 80) there is no point for exp boosts, also the karma only works in PvE. About the siegues, the easiest part of setting one is buying the blueprint, you need the supply and if your oponents are clever they wont let you get it, also they can destroy the building place and the sigue weapon, so the point is that if your oponents know what they are doing, the money doesnt matter.

The Karma buff was applied to my character in WvWvW. If Arenanet stated that it wasn't supposed to work, perhaps it's a bug.

WvWvW is all about PvGate right now. You spend 10+ minutes beating on a gate without siege weapons. With keep defenses a small number of defenders can hold out against a much larger force. Some supply points are often behind walls, that you have to siege first to get to. Which means that cutting off supply is not as easy as you might think.

Right now Siege weapons and keep defenses are the key to WvWvW. Without them a small force can't take a keep defended by a 2 or 3 defenders with keep/wall defenses.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5069

4/28/12 4:39:13 PM#47

After Beta, what's the ratio of keys to boxes that will drop? What will be in those boxes...After beta. I can't imagine they will stuff them full of crap and make you pay for keys. If it could be anything from a portion to something really valuable, then we have a lottery and you'll never be able to farm enough keys for all your lockboxes. If that turns out to be the case after launch, then OP's complaint is 100% legit.

 

And as far as earning ingame gold to buy gems to buy keys......Because of the RMT factor, the entire ingame economy is going to revolve around the gem as the standard. Every item in the game that is tradeable will have it's value established by weiging it against the value of gems. So while it will be possible to farm gold for Gems, I doubt it will be worthwile and or even remotely fun. So far in every other game with cash Shop RMT, Real money wins. I remember reading in perfect World's forums. Someone posted asking how to make money in game to get gold for cash shop items.(reverse the process)  And this is not Pay 2 Win we are talking about, it's getting items that drop in the game to trade for cash shop items or cash shop currency. The typical response was....If you want CS items more than occasionally, you buy them with real money.

 

 

 

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Crake_1

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/11
Posts: 82

4/28/12 4:40:46 PM#48
Originally posted by Drakxii
It's how the "free" to play model works.   GW2 devs or any of other devs that use the model that want you only to have enough fun to make you want to make the game a little(or lot) less grindy or make your character a little less stupid looking.  That don't care about new/good content as much as P2P would because it won't make them any money.

You've obviously never played GW1.

They have been putting out free updates for GW1 since the last expansion pack was released.

  KingJiggly

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/11
Posts: 807

Definition for innovation is below. Your welcome.

4/28/12 4:41:27 PM#49
Originally posted by Emwyn
Originally posted by KingJiggly
Originally posted by Emwyn
Originally posted by tank017

can you elaborate on these lock boxes?

 

are they just random drops? or spawns?


Random drops. There are 3 accounts going in my house. So far only one lockbox has dropped and one key has dropped. For the same person.

keys are also dropped.

 


psst reread my post and you will see I said that very thing :)

PssI was using your post as proof and restating so the op would see it. :)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

  User Deleted
4/28/12 4:44:10 PM#50
Mytic keys and mystic boxes drop randomly. You don't need the shop only if you want to.
  Games888

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/12
Posts: 244

4/28/12 4:46:43 PM#51
exactly what the cash shop is for, ppl who feels the need to spend real life money for some ingame useless junk box.
  niceguy3978

Elite Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 2011

4/28/12 4:53:40 PM#52
Originally posted by Torqia

Random drop.. Its basicly just a drop item that you cant acces without gems bought in the shop.

Ofc you can trade gems from others but somebody has to buy them..

Its actualy a pretty normal use of cash shop.. Some games sell keys, Anet sells gems.. same deal. 

Bah, I should have read through the posts before posting what a dozen other people have said.  I do have a question though, maybe someone can pay close attention and give out some info.  Do the keys drop at a similar rate to the boxes?  Could perhaps boxes dropping more frequently than keys be a carrot for spending in the cs?  

  TwoThreeFour

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2149

4/28/12 4:55:44 PM#53
Originally posted by ebonized
Not only do the keys drop (as others have said), but you can use in-game money to buy gems, which can buy the keys. I don't really see any downside

Since you don't see any downside, then let me try to make you see one:

 

It is imperative that the box and key droprates are designed such that the keys drop less often than the boxes in order to make it "convenient" to buy the keys with gems. So far, I think you'll have to agree. Once real money get involved when the real servers go live, the market will quickly adjust (since the auctions are cross-server) such that it will take far more than 1 hour of regular gold grind to get the equivalent of 1 hour real work in gems.

 

Gems will always be attractive for non-gemmers and one important factor for how much gold they would have to pay to get some gems, will be very dependant on how many interesting things (interesting for the gemmers) can be bought with gold.

 

A likely scenario for what will happen is: you get far more boxes than keys and the gem costs so much gold that you would think twice before spending your gold to buy keys to open the boxes. The box drops will though remain as an annoying reminder of the item mall :).

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

4/28/12 4:58:54 PM#54
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by Torqia

Random drop.. Its basicly just a drop item that you cant acces without gems bought in the shop.

Ofc you can trade gems from others but somebody has to buy them..

Its actualy a pretty normal use of cash shop.. Some games sell keys, Anet sells gems.. same deal. 

Bah, I should have read through the posts before posting what a dozen other people have said.  I do have a question though, maybe someone can pay close attention and give out some info.  Do the keys drop at a similar rate to the boxes?  Could perhaps boxes dropping more frequently than keys be a carrot for spending in the cs?  

For me yes.

Obviously it is designed this way. If it wasn't, then what would be the point of even having them in the game to begin with. It will probably have that scratch ticket effect on some people.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5069

4/28/12 5:00:29 PM#55
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by ebonized
Not only do the keys drop (as others have said), but you can use in-game money to buy gems, which can buy the keys. I don't really see any downside

Since you don't see any downside, then let me try to make you see one:

 

It is imperative that the box and key droprates are designed such that the keys drop less often than the boxes in order to make it "convenient" to buy the keys with gems. So far, I think you'll have to agree. Once real money get involved when the real servers go live, the market will quickly adjust (since the auctions are cross-server) such that it will take far more than 1 hour of regular gold grind to get the equivalent of 1 hour real work in gems.

 

Gems will always be attractive for non-gemmers and one important factor for how much gold they would have to pay to get some gems, will be very dependant on how many interesting things (interesting for the gemmers) can be bought with gold.

 

A likely scenario for what will happen is: you get far more boxes than keys and the gem costs so much gold that you would think twice before spending your gold to buy keys to open the boxes. The box drops will though remain as an annoying reminder of the item mall :).

I agree with what you say, except I doubt the boxes will be full of useless junk. That makes it too easy to just vendor them. I'm willing to bet they will be a type of lottery system. Random stuff. Some valuable, some not. But always enough to make you think twice about not getting a key.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  johnbow

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/11
Posts: 6

4/28/12 5:05:17 PM#56

While it is true that since keys can be looted and bought off, it doesnt really matter, and you don't have to pay to win.

But lets consider that because gems can be used to purchase keys, and keys can be traded/sold for in-game currency, it is possible to pay for advantage. How? By injecting real-life currency into the cash shop to purchase in-game valuable items, and then selling them off for in-game currency. Basically RMT, but disguised and controlled by the company.

Of course if having lots of in-game currency in the game does not translate to advantage(for example, there isn't any enormous money sinks, or quality gear cannot be traded), then it doesn't matter. If however, having lots of in-game currency does offer an advantage, then a player who is willing to do so can pay to win, however economical it is.

edit: to add on, personally I dislike cash shops. But if at the end of the day, even if it offers an advantage to cash-shoppers,

1) If the advantage is not astronomical, meaning I can achieve the same with reasonable effort, I'm alright with it.

2)If the economical sense of cash-shopping is low enough to discourage cash-shopping for that reason, I'm alright with it.

3)If having lots of in-game currency does not offer any distinct and considerable advantage, for example need lots of money to be able to buy and craft the best items, or if consumables are expensive relative the to rate of earning money by normal means, or offer some sort of edge in PvP(making siege weapons very expensive, paying for NPC guards etc), I'm also fine with it.

  Calintz333

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 1179

TWILIGHT ONION!

4/28/12 5:21:23 PM#57
Originally posted by Emwyn
Originally posted by Distopia
I was under the impression the cash shop was not in this BWE, was that impression wrong? TO add to that I was also under the impression those keys drop in game.


The cash shop is in Distopia. There's a button in the top left to enter the cash shop. You can view things without entering any details. So far things are as previously leaked minus the  mystery boxes themselves, the megaphone and I really don't see any boosters at all unless I'm missing something?

The keys do drop, see my above post.

So there are no boosts what so ever in the cash shop? I wish I could see it for myself because I find that hard to believe.

 

No karma boosts?

exp boosts?

drop rate boosts?

crafting boosts?

 

I would be extremely shocked if Anet actaully made things fair and didn't add any of these to the game.

 

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

4/28/12 5:25:13 PM#58
Originally posted by Calintz333
Originally posted by Emwyn
Originally posted by Distopia
I was under the impression the cash shop was not in this BWE, was that impression wrong? TO add to that I was also under the impression those keys drop in game.


The cash shop is in Distopia. There's a button in the top left to enter the cash shop. You can view things without entering any details. So far things are as previously leaked minus the  mystery boxes themselves, the megaphone and I really don't see any boosters at all unless I'm missing something?

The keys do drop, see my above post.

So there are no boosts what so ever in the cash shop? I wish I could see it for myself because I find that hard to believe.

 

No karma boosts?

exp boosts?

drop rate boosts?

crafting boosts?

 

I would be extremely shocked if Anet actaully made things fair and didn't add any of these to the game.

 

They are still there, though I didn't notice a drop rate boost. Might be there, might not be.

You can add 10% Defense Boost to that list as well.

  Fed1

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/08
Posts: 174

4/28/12 5:26:02 PM#59
Originally posted by Calintz333
Originally posted by Emwyn
Originally posted by Distopia
I was under the impression the cash shop was not in this BWE, was that impression wrong? TO add to that I was also under the impression those keys drop in game.


The cash shop is in Distopia. There's a button in the top left to enter the cash shop. You can view things without entering any details. So far things are as previously leaked minus the  mystery boxes themselves, the megaphone and I really don't see any boosters at all unless I'm missing something?

The keys do drop, see my above post.

So there are no boosts what so ever in the cash shop? I wish I could see it for myself because I find that hard to believe.

 

No karma boosts?

exp boosts?

drop rate boosts?

crafting boosts?

 

I would be extremely shocked if Anet actaully made things fair and didn't add any of these to the game.

 

 

Agree - and if there are no incentives to buy, how will they make money to pay for the infrastructure?

Anet is a for-profit company correct?

 

  Calintz333

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 1179

TWILIGHT ONION!

4/29/12 12:04:01 AM#60
Originally posted by Fed1
Originally posted by Calintz333
Originally posted by Emwyn
Originally posted by Distopia
I was under the impression the cash shop was not in this BWE, was that impression wrong? TO add to that I was also under the impression those keys drop in game.


The cash shop is in Distopia. There's a button in the top left to enter the cash shop. You can view things without entering any details. So far things are as previously leaked minus the  mystery boxes themselves, the megaphone and I really don't see any boosters at all unless I'm missing something?

The keys do drop, see my above post.

So there are no boosts what so ever in the cash shop? I wish I could see it for myself because I find that hard to believe.

 

No karma boosts?

exp boosts?

drop rate boosts?

crafting boosts?

 

I would be extremely shocked if Anet actaully made things fair and didn't add any of these to the game.

 

 

Agree - and if there are no incentives to buy, how will they make money to pay for the infrastructure?

Anet is a for-profit company correct?

 

So they did just fine with GW1 by selling us CONTENT and Cosmetics  not stat boosting  items. But they can't do that same thing here and get by can they?

 

What makes them any different than all the other free to play companies now?

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