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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Paid Beta = bad practice

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63 posts found
  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3668

4/28/12 7:14:47 PM#41
Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by Pocahinha
No, the problem is people getting into a BETA thinking it will play without any bugs or probles like a game with 6 years post release...i call that stupidity and there is lots of it .

Well when you pay full price your not a tester your a customer.

No you are a customer when it releases.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  solpariah

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/19/08
Posts: 17

4/28/12 7:22:49 PM#42
As a gamer, I'm alwasy going to be buying games. If I pre-order at gamestop (which I always do) then even if I have to pay the whole thing off, I'm getting a taste for it in beta, always keeping in mind that beta's purpose is to knock out the bugs and glitches or performance issues. If i don't like it, even considering the bugs and glitches were to get knocked out before release, I can just put it on something else. The more people you have paying full price like this for beta, the less likely it will be crowded. If Guild Wars 2 wasn't appealing, the servers wouldn't remain constantly loaded like they have been. I love this game personally. A game this beautiful being, at minimum , $60 and charging no subscription fee is stunning.

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  Metentso

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1457

4/28/12 8:14:23 PM#43
Originally posted by Sarethor
Originally posted by Metentso
Originally posted by stayBlind

Oh man, I paid for the beta?

Guess I'll have to buy the game when it comes out.


You didn't pay the beta with the money you spent. That was to buy the game. You payed for the beta by buying the game earlier, giving the money early, having less information... basically taking a bigger risk buying.

He was being sarcastic.

Yes. In a way that seems you didn't get, judging from your comment. He was saying it would be absurd to consider he payed for beta because that would mean he didnt pay for the game.. But it really isn't absurd because he payed for beta, not with the money but with the 'risk' of buying early, as I said in my comment. 

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2760

4/28/12 8:20:50 PM#44
Originally posted by nilden

I feel like it's a bad business practice to charge full price so people can get in beta. Traditionally people would sign up for beta and the company would select people from a pool of applicants then go to open beta letting in the general public and stress testing. These people are free testers for the company of an unfinished product in beta. They would help test, find bugs, provide feedback, and improve the software. All of this free testing for the company. Then when the game is ready to release you would pay the full price for a finsihed,polished, tested product. I feel like it sets a bad presidence when a company takes the full purchase price before they have a fully complete and released product.

Juding by the fact that digital copies were sold out for guild wars 2 it seems like people don't care and are willing to just throw money at companies before getting a finished product. I feel that the company should be more responsible and say please by all means test our game we will only charge you for a released product not something still in beta, which has been the stand for many years.

Pre-orders are fine 5-10 bucks down so you reserve a copy at release is a lot different than paying full price in advance when it's truly only to get in a beta.

Have some faith in your product and charge people at release for a complete game. Am I the only person who feels this way?

I agree 100%.

  OMGr8573

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/29/07
Posts: 96

4/28/12 8:31:07 PM#45

I agree, to me it just lets anyone in. It ends up letting in those that could careless about testing and reporting problems, they just want to be the first to play!

Another problem I've noticed is beta's used to be open for weeks to months, only down for patches. Now a days it seems like beta's are up for a weekend or maybe a half a week or so at a time. Kinda hard to test a game that's not up that much.

  Betakodo

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 338

4/28/12 8:56:32 PM#46
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by Pocahinha
No, the problem is people getting into a BETA thinking it will play without any bugs or probles like a game with 6 years post release...i call that stupidity and there is lots of it .

Well when you pay full price your not a tester your a customer.

No you are a customer when it releases.

Noun

customer (plural customers)

  1. A patron; one who purchases or receives a product or service from a business or merchant, or intends to do so.
     
  2. (informal) A person, especially one engaging in some sort of interaction with others.
They knew people treated betas like demos. They said it themselves. Funny how quick people are to jump to the it'z betaaa defense now. Also, stress test was last weekend and not for people who paid.
 
If you ask me not only is it poor form to charge for a beta, it's worse to hold the game hostage for 3 days because you didn't pay way ahead of time. You're losing potential profit of $60! Not that you could do much investment wise with that little, but it bugs me how little we really got on the day we pre-purchased. You went into the store, handed over $60 and waited until this weekend to actually get something back.
  bookworm438

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/20/10
Posts: 649

4/28/12 8:56:48 PM#47

While I may not entirely agree with it, I can see a couple reasons why they did it, from a testing stand point and a business stand point.

 

The most obvious reason why they opened up prepurchasing for beta would be to begin getting a return on their investment in the game. The sooner you make up how much you invested in development, the sooner you begin making a profit, the sooner you can get to work on the next expansion, etc. They knew they had lots of people interested in buying the game, so why not just exploit that a bit and begin making money. Remember, they are a business first. As the consumer, it's falls on you to do your research and know what you are getting for your money. I thought it was clear that with the ~BETA~ weekends, not everything will run OK at first.

Another reason I can see them doing it is to guarantee a return of customers weekend after weekend, up to release to guarantee they have enough people to stress test. Lets put it this way, if they just opened up beta to every person and their dog, people would play say "what is this...I don't even..." and quit, despite the fact IT'S BETA. So by forcing people to pay, unless you are lucky enough to get in through the selection, you are pretty much guaranteeing people will come back the next event. This will allow them to continue to stress test the server, and fine tune things. We'll probably see that the next event, the game will be MUCH better than it is now.

If you, as a consumer, are not going to try to make sure you get the best return on YOUR investment by giving them feedback where necessary, then you might want to rethink how you spend your money. If you payed full price for the game, don't just exit out of those blue things that pop up. Actually rate things, and use those little comment things. Also report bugs you see. By doing this, you guarantee that the each chance you get to play, it'll be a little better up through release. Once release hits, you'll have an awesome game! 

But ultimately it falls to us as the consumer  to be responsible for your own money. Businesses, even ArenaNet, will do whatever it takes to get your money. It's your responsibility to know what exactly you are spending your money on. It's ALWAYS foolish to spend money on a product before you have it permanently (yes I'm being hypocritical here, but you get my point). Before you bought the game, you should have realized that as soon as you saw 'guaranteed beta access', that you'll get access to a version of the game that's NOT COMPLETE. When it's not complete, IT WILL HAVE BUGS, LAG, ETC.. If you didn't realize that that's apart of what you'll be getting for your money until release, then you have no one else to blame but yourself.

NOTE: I am not defending Anet's methodology, nor am I hating on Anet's methodology. I'm completely neutral on the matter. I'm just playing devils advocate and am not getting worked up over something that's not even released. IF there were these problems on release, then I'd understand the outrage. 

 

Considering most of my posts are ignored, as they are usually rational (and this is a forum, rational thought is not permitted), I'll include a TL;DR version:

Anet is a business first. It's your responsibility as a consumer to know what you are signing up for before you hand out cash. It's your responsibility to ensure the game can run on your computer, on your interent connection, in it's pre-release state before purchase. 

  nilden

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 886

 
OP  4/28/12 11:19:00 PM#48
Originally posted by Sarethor

Threads like this are fairly embarrassing on several levels.  Even the definition of beta testing can't be agreed upon and that's not even touching this ridiculous claim that this weekend is "paying for the beta".

Let me make an analogy that even the dullest knives in this drawer might grasp:  If you had to pay to test drive a car THEN turn around and pay full price for it afterward, THAT would be what you're claiming with GW2.  This is not the scenario with this game so please stop embarrassing yourselves.

Additionally, the game still is in the beta stage.  The complete one-through-n list of goals for this weekend aren't public knowledge but clearly a heavy loading of the datacenter/network infrastructure is part of it but definitely not all of it.

The biggest "problem" regarding the internet is that it's a platform for people to show some, or all, their defeciencies as a person then turn around and claim they have none.

Well this poor dull knife thinks your analogy is incorrect. Really if you consider the developement process and compare to the car dealer a test drive is a free trail on a released, fully tested, complete product. A beta is much more akin to safety testing a car before it is ever on a public road. In essence it's like asking someone to pay full price to be a crash test dummy. Oh sure you only pay once and you will get that car when it's done but it would be completely embarrasing for a company to ask for the full price on an unfinished product.

All these people just paid full price and are playing a beta. That is reality.

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  Giddian

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/06
Posts: 430

4/28/12 11:24:27 PM#49
Originally posted by nilden

I feel like it's a bad business practice to charge full price so people can get in beta. Traditionally people would sign up for beta and the company would select people from a pool of applicants then go to open beta letting in the general public and stress testing. These people are free testers for the company of an unfinished product in beta. They would help test, find bugs, provide feedback, and improve the software. All of this free testing for the company. Then when the game is ready to release you would pay the full price for a finsihed,polished, tested product. I feel like it sets a bad presidence when a company takes the full purchase price before they have a fully complete and released product.

Juding by the fact that digital copies were sold out for guild wars 2 it seems like people don't care and are willing to just throw money at companies before getting a finished product. I feel that the company should be more responsible and say please by all means test our game we will only charge you for a released product not something still in beta, which has been the stand for many years.

Pre-orders are fine 5-10 bucks down so you reserve a copy at release is a lot different than paying full price in advance when it's truly only to get in a beta.

Have some faith in your product and charge people at release for a complete game. Am I the only person who feels this way?

Lets get something streight. I didn't buy a Beta. I bought a game I wanted, the beta was a Bonus. This is a great thing, because then you get the people who realy want to play, in the Beta, not the people who are bored and wants to play something.

The game is NOT without its faults but I am enjoying it.

  LizardEgypt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 359

Hmm ?

4/28/12 11:28:08 PM#50

Paid beta = The game is terrible and they managed to get you to pay full price prior to knowing anything about it. Now you already have the remorse to continue playing because you spent $60 already.

MMORPG players are gullible and will never learn. Paying for a game at launch is risky enough, paying for a game in it's beta stages is even worse. The rest of us wait a month and see if the game is bad before plunging in. (SWTOR)

Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  Lusts

Novice Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 23

4/28/12 11:31:38 PM#51

I half agree and half disagree with this post. You paid for the full game, the beta invite was just a perk. They are still inviting people through a pool of 1,000,000 beta sign-ups they did I believe what, a month ago?

It's just more of a "Pre-Purchase now and you can get a garunteed spot in beta" for those who don't really want to chance the sign-up thing.

 

BUT, paying 60-150$ to help improve and test a game IS indeed illogical. It's better to invite a massive wave of sign-ups to stress test and break the game so it's better improved. Though, I can see the whole paying for it might give insentive to actually test the game since you paid for it an all. Why not make it better?

 

There are usually two sides of the coin with this thing, thus why I half agree and half disagree.

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  sk8chalif

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/10
Posts: 591

4/28/12 11:40:49 PM#52

lol. U did not pay for a beta. u pay for the final game at release. the acces beta was just some cream on the cake.

 

 


~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~

  senti02

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/08
Posts: 91

4/28/12 11:43:44 PM#53

still close beta,and always have a choice to get in or not.you paid for it to get access to beta to test the game,thats it..you people are funny :D

 

your choice to wait or touch the unfinish game

  Betakodo

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/12
Posts: 338

4/28/12 11:57:59 PM#54
Originally posted by sk8chalif

lol. U did not pay for a beta. u pay for the final game at release. the acces beta was just some cream on the cake.

 

 

Hmmm pay $60 when the game comes out? Or pay $60 potentially many months ahead of time for no reason? I don't see a reason to do the second option unless.... oh yeah there's something there to sweeten the deal, like beta access. People who paid, did it for beta access and obviously the game too.

I may put down the minimum $5 to pre-order the game to ensure the store has my copy, but I sure as hell don't put down $60 on a game that's not going to come out for many months unless there is some incentive to do so.

  nilden

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 886

 
OP  4/29/12 12:18:12 AM#55
Originally posted by Betakodo
Originally posted by sk8chalif

lol. U did not pay for a beta. u pay for the final game at release. the acces beta was just some cream on the cake.

 

 

Hmmm pay $60 when the game comes out? Or pay $60 potentially many months ahead of time for no reason? I don't see a reason to do the second option unless.... oh yeah there's something there to sweeten the deal, like beta access. People who paid, did it for beta access and obviously the game too.

I may put down the minimum $5 to pre-order the game to ensure the store has my copy, but I sure as hell don't put down $60 on a game that's not going to come out for many months unless there is some incentive to do so.

Exacly if there was no beta acess associated with the purchase it would be another story. I find it hard to believe they would have sold out of digital copies if it was just a prepurchase for the game at release.

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  musicmann

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/05
Posts: 1122

4/29/12 12:29:48 AM#56

You can call it whatever, but what is happening this weekend with GW2 is not a access to a closed beta. Anet is not holding anyone with access to game servers to a NDA. They are not asking for any bug finding feedback. They made people pay full price to stress test there servers and play, nothing more. I do find it bad practice to make consumers spend $60.00 on a unfinished product using the carrot on the stick of having access to the servers. They already have their alpha and closed beta testing community that were picked because of past testing experience and different systems specs.

So the question remains. Why not just have people who want to pre-purchase the game lay down $5.00 that will get them a held copy on release and the in game stuff, and just invite all those and others who signed up and are part of the GW2 official community to do the stress testing like this weekend without having to pay for a unfinished game.

  illyana

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 610

4/29/12 12:32:14 AM#57


Originally posted by nilden


Originally posted by Betakodo


Originally posted by sk8chalif
lol. U did not pay for a beta. u pay for the final game at release. the acces beta was just some cream on the cake.
 
 


Hmmm pay $60 when the game comes out? Or pay $60 potentially many months ahead of time for no reason? I don't see a reason to do the second option unless.... oh yeah there's something there to sweeten the deal, like beta access. People who paid, did it for beta access and obviously the game too.
I may put down the minimum $5 to pre-order the game to ensure the store has my copy, but I sure as hell don't put down $60 on a game that's not going to come out for many months unless there is some incentive to do so.


Exacly if there was no beta acess associated with the purchase it would be another story. I find it hard to believe they would have sold out of digital copies if it was just a prepurchase for the game at release.

they "sold out" to control the number of people who has access to this weekend's beta. we will think much worse abt ANET's business if they continue to sell the digital copies and yet still has a login/registration/access issue unresolved.


Have fun storming the castle! - Miracle Max

  Cromica

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 662

4/29/12 12:41:58 AM#58
Originally posted by Metentso
Originally posted by stayBlind

Oh man, I paid for the beta?

Guess I'll have to buy the game when it comes out.


You didn't pay the beta with the money you spent. That was to buy the game. You payed for the beta by buying the game earlier, giving the money early, having less information... basically taking a bigger risk buying.

There was never any doubt that I would buy this game so whats the big deal?

  wrightstuf

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/09
Posts: 709

4/29/12 12:46:24 AM#59
Originally posted by colddog04

I agree. I think paid beta just makes people hostile when things don't work the way they're supposed to. 

 


If someone is going to get hostile, it wouldnt matter if it was before or after release

  wrightstuf

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/09
Posts: 709

4/29/12 12:58:39 AM#60

pre ordering as opposed to a pre purchase is a bad idea for the devs. too many people spend 5 bucks or whatever to try a beta then cancel. take GW2 for example...the devs see X amount of pre orders/purchases and base their server needs accordingly....now after the last beta before release all those pre orders with no intention of buying, bail. It just makes better sense from a development and financial standpoint for the purchase.

No one is forcing you to prepay. Its your decision as the consumer to decide if its worth it to jump in beforehand or wait till release.

Like it or not, pre purchase tied in with a beta is here to stay.

 

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