Originally posted by darkhalf357x

I would say most action games of this nature are pew pew.. just like Dragons Nest.  I agree the CC and stuns are short lived but I use them to hold someone long enough to use a more powerful skill which I may not connect with if they werent.

Its still beta so it could change based on feedback.

Dragon's Nest is much more pew pew.  Doding/teleport is much more powerful in DN and is therefore much more like a true action game.  While dodging is useful and necessary in GW2 its not nearly as powerful as DN.

A good sorcoress in DN can run through most dungeons having been barely hit but using a combination of KD/KB and Dodge+teleport.  Part of it is you do it more and part of it is you go farther.

But in DN the action style gameplay can essentially be a complete defense.

Doding is not a complete defense in GW2.  Not at all.  You need to save your dodges for particular things.

I think part of the problems is people keep getting told that GW2 is like games like DN but its not.  If you dodge the way you would in DN you will probably not have it up when you need it in GW2 and then you get 2 shotted yes.

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Mephster
Meele has an issues in big dynamic events, they get 1-2 shotted by bosses constantly.

That will happen until people learn that:

1. No one is pure melee, mix it up!

2. You cannot stand there and take damage. Period. Watch the opponent, see the attack coming, avoid it.

Indeed now have a ranged weapon equiped on my gaurdian as well. The frozen Maw "dynamic" quest really though me how usefull that was.

I must admit I'm disappointed with the combat in PvP. If you get a group working together players go down way too fast.

Sure, 1v1 you get some good fights, though Mesmer is a pain to deal with. But when its grouped PvP, its just over too quick.

Originally posted by jerome1986
is it just me or was WAR pvp a lot better than GW2 pvp ?    in WAR it was a lot more slower paced, there was less particle effects so u could see whats happening.  therefore u could be more strategic rather than button mash in a mob of fireworks in GW2.

Oh yeah War PvP was great. Engineer /Chaos mage pulls everyone in. AoE, everyone dead.

The problem is simply this....

Think about how nearly perfect roaming and fighting is.. but the fact you can't sustain any continuity in buffs, or with area control. Nearly everything in PvP and PvE is Pick-Up-Group (pug) and when I root a mob.. the average person can't see this, nor have time to react because it's only 6 seconds..!!

The combat needs to have a broader metric/dochotomy and allow ranged combat to be a slower pace..   or slower cadance.

I think ArenaNet should allow people to specialize even more... but with trade offs. Like someone who really Wantsa that extra 8s of root, must give up something equally important. Or even a stance trait.. based on a person backstory and profession..  that would be so different from any other "same" person, to make combat different, but equal distant.

Combat without a flushed out skill & trait templete does seem a tad Pew Pew, and even more so with pugs..

I have little group combat experience...  as I am trying to play from a solo perspective right now.

the answer is very simple: you dont use conditions on enemies for your benefit but for the benefit of your group - the age of the solo pvp'er is gone.

a good group can mow through enemies and people will at least need half a year to adjust to the awesome pvp-style GW2 offers.

You see the adjusting-problem with comments like "melee got this and that problem" ... "self heal blabla" -- there is no 'melee-class' - if you are using melee in the wrong situation you'll die. on self heal: people havent even started to HEAL in pvp (as heal skills scale with lvl and arent boosted.)

Originally posted by Atlan99

Originally posted by jerome1986
is it just me or was WAR pvp a lot better than GW2 pvp ?    in WAR it was a lot more slower paced, there was less particle effects so u could see whats happening.  therefore u could be more strategic rather than button mash in a mob of fireworks in GW2.

Oh yeah War PvP was great. Engineer /Chaos mage pulls everyone in. AoE, everyone dead.

Yeah seriously where do people get this?  Bright Wizard's slaughtering people and the incredibly stupid magnet instagib were awful.

I had a tank class in WAR and the magnet instagib still killed me in seconds when it was done right.  Yeah I got away sometimes but that was mistakes on their part.  Correctly done it was a true insta-gib with no real counter.

Originally posted by bobfish

I must admit I'm disappointed with the combat in PvP. If you get a group working together players go down way too fast.

 

Sure, 1v1 you get some good fights, though Mesmer is a pain to deal with. But when its grouped PvP, its just over too quick.

Over too quick for solo players, or over too quick for members of an equally organized group?

Originally posted by Loekii

Originally posted by bobfish

I must admit I'm disappointed with the combat in PvP. If you get a group working together players go down way too fast.

 

Sure, 1v1 you get some good fights, though Mesmer is a pain to deal with. But when its grouped PvP, its just over too quick.

 

Over too quick for solo players, or over too quick for members of an equally organized group?

 

over too quick? they need to hire a trio of Water Eles spamming heals. Those medicore heals go a looooong way and sway the balance of combat in favor of the smarter group.

So you need 3 "healers" to make combat last? And thats meant to be ok?

The point was with GW2 that you didnt need the triad, tank/dps/healer. Everyone can self heal.  Everyone can support heal.

So the first question with your arguement, why ele healers, why not thief healers, should be just as viable.

But the major point is it doesnt solve pew pew mentality that makes GW2 combat so instagib fast. 

People cant deal with CC, so lets basically remove it. Sigh. CC means strategy, when to employ it and when to use your breaks and removes.

In GW2 there are a lot of CC abilities, but they last 1-3 seconds in general.

Plus, each ability is so fast its basically a button spamming FFA.

---

Originally posted by Atlan99
Oh yeah War PvP was great. Engineer /Chaos mage pulls everyone in. AoE, everyone dead.

---

Originally posted by Archaegeo

Seems like the combat, and this affects all professions, boils down to who has the biggest dps hits.

The CC and debuffs and buffs are all so short lived that it feels pointless to cast them.

I think mostly it just feels like combat is way too fast.  You arent one-shotted, unless facing a veteran 3 levels over you due to scaling, but you are three seconded.

I know people hate in pvp when CC is overpowered or it feels like you are always locked down, but they specifically said pve was different than pvp, so why cant the pve cc have more of an effect?

i felt the exact same way... and i mentioned it in Local chat and about 10 fanboys and gals wanted to lynch me... rofl at these rabid zombie fans. 

but ya... combat is a meaningless blur of spamming your best DPS... very little reason for meaningful use of debuffs and CC's. dodge once and a while and dont get caught in AE. ooops im on fire? errr. 1 v 1 duels you can weave in special attacks and skills but in WvWvW... and  group vs group combat... pshhhh its just spam and pray and watch the kaleidescope of colors. 

and this is coming from someone who competes in amateur speed chess so dont anyone start explaining it away saying i must be an old fart with a slow mind and reflexes...

I tried WvWvW with my warrior and bow. I just kept spamming fire. Yeah, theres no real thought to it though. Like you said, just bunch of flashy colors and a few dodges. Then spam your abilities hoping you down someone. AOE rules as king. If you get a bunch of arches, they can shutdown a group of people.

Originally posted by just1opinion
What heal are you guys using that's "bringing you back to full health?"  So far as I knew, no one had a heal that gave you any more than HALF health except really a necro......

every class has a self heal on slot number 6

Originally posted by Archaegeo

Seems like the combat, and this affects all professions, boils down to who has the biggest dps hits.

The CC and debuffs and buffs are all so short lived that it feels pointless to cast them.

 

I think mostly it just feels like combat is way too fast.  You arent one-shotted, unless facing a veteran 3 levels over you due to scaling, but you are three seconded.

 

I know people hate in pvp when CC is overpowered or it feels like you are always locked down, but they specifically said pve was different than pvp, so why cant the pve cc have more of an effect?

I didn't get to try many classes, especially since I was busy all day saturday and couldn't play, but as a staff elementalist, I found was able to CC and kite multiple mobs indefinitely without ever taking a single hit.  Between the 66% slow on my #4 water attunement spell, the cripple on my #4 earth attune spell, the stuns/immobalize on my #5 earth and air spells, the knockback on the #3 air spell, the speedboost on my #4 air attune spell, the rollback escape on my #4 fire attune spell, the chill from glyph utility skill I took and the active dodge mechanic, I felt like I had more CC than any class in any MMO i've ever played. 

Originally posted by Archaegeo

So you need 3 "healers" to make combat last? And thats meant to be ok?

The point was with GW2 that you didnt need the triad, tank/dps/healer. Everyone can self heal.  Everyone can support heal.

 

So the first question with your arguement, why ele healers, why not thief healers, should be just as viable.

 

But the major point is it doesnt solve pew pew mentality that makes GW2 combat so instagib fast. 

People cant deal with CC, so lets basically remove it. Sigh. CC means strategy, when to employ it and when to use your breaks and removes.

In GW2 there are a lot of CC abilities, but they last 1-3 seconds in general.

Plus, each ability is so fast its basically a button spamming FFA.

I tried out a thf healer/range dps set up. It was ok but people were too stuck in the typical mmo mentality that they didn't bother gsteping into the AoE to get healed. Also casting that heal on the people fighting next to the boss is a bad idea. They go stealth and drop "aggro".

Originally posted by Archaegeo

Seems like the combat, and this affects all professions, boils down to who has the biggest dps hits.

The CC and debuffs and buffs are all so short lived that it feels pointless to cast them.

I think mostly it just feels like combat is way too fast.  You arent one-shotted, unless facing a veteran 3 levels over you due to scaling, but you are three seconded.

I know people hate in pvp when CC is overpowered or it feels like you are always locked down, but they specifically said pve was different than pvp, so why cant the pve cc have more of an effect?

Combat feels faster before you have mastered it. I had the same feeling the first few hours but it felt slower and slower the more I got used to it. Then I changed class from Thief to Ele and it started all over again...

Once you played it a while it will be fine. I didn't CC much though, spent half the time with my thief and the rest between a warrior, a ranger and a ele. It might be that they need to improve the CC skills a little, it usually takes a year after launch for a MMO to get at least acceptably balanced.

i felt both PvE and PvP took alot more skill then other games. In PvE i found people thought it was ok to tank damage and not dodge or put at least 1 survivability utility trait. As far as PvP is concerned 1v1s where exactly what they needed to be skilled, yes skilled becuase there is no more button smashing not u actually need to identify what a heal looks like or the proper time to knock down or stun to be able to let out a burst if u have burst. the game is great.

acouple changes i would like to see:

W v W v W: need a hastener liek DAOC had where u talk to him and ur given swiftness to run around teh map IF your attacked you lose it but till then u at least run at a decent speed.

Defending a keep should be a event: what i mean by that is that each time u engage in a battle u gain the small event repelling the attack but defending the keep its self should be 1 large event cause last not i got into a 5 hour keep defense and tho i did get in alot of the small events that give decent xp if you can deal alot of damage to a target i wanted everyone to benefit for staying there and defending the keep.

also maybe some type of mounts would be nice.

I have to respectfully disagree with the OP. I played way too much GW2 this weekend. I can say that I have now played every profession, and all but 2 to level 10 (others close). I played a ton of structured pvp as well. 

I was trying to get a feel for each profession to decide which I like the most. For pvp I am definitely set, but pve I am torn. Granted I could have built/played each class differently than I did but I found myself thinking late Sunday (I went back and streamed gameplay of my 5 different current classes for a friend)  was that when I played a class that had no cc at all I felt..underpowered...at much more risk, and consequently less successful. I did more damage with the profs that I went away from cc on but really it didn't make the fight any easier.

slows, launches, pulls, knockdowns, all made fights go so much smoother. In PVP as well, I found even 2 seconds of the right cc was critical. Actually I wll go as far as to say especially in pvp. Every good player has 'get out of jail' abilities to get away when they know the fight is going south. whether it is a stealth a snare, a heal, a teleport, whatever. A good player has a plan to get away. Amazing how that does not go so well for them when you see they are about to enact this plan and you stun them for 2 seconds and spike them.

In Pve, you can fight things higher level than you and never get hit, or dramatically decrease the amount of damage your team is taking. So to reiterate my opinion, I have to disagree with the OP. Although if you asked me Friday at 8pm when I was reading abilities with 1s daze and one shot blindness with long cooldowns I would have agreed.