Originally posted by Zookz1
I think having healers makes PVP more strategic. There's more things to think about for the entire team with healers. When to CC, who to CC, who to focus, do I need to peel etc. Right now, you call focus targets and whoever is on the receiving end explodes. There's really no amount of peels that is going to save someone from focused DPS in this game, and I think it takes away from team play.

agreed completely

Originally posted by heartless

 

The point is that they will gather the information during these play tests and tweak the game.

But it's beta...everything should be fixed already.

I don't know why people can't understand that this game is full of bugs, lag, unbalanced content, etc...

It seems like a lot of people here have never beta tested before doesn't it?

Originally posted by bigsmiff

Originally posted by heartless

 

The point is that they will gather the information during these play tests and tweak the game.

But it's beta...everything should be fixed already.

I don't know why people can't understand that this game is full of bugs, lag, unbalanced content, etc...

It seems like a lot of people here have never beta tested before doesn't it?

I have beta tested many MMO. And the "It's only beta" argument has been used each and every time.

Lol, think what you want.  But it is definitely possible to survive and execute strategy without a healer class.  If you make some well balanced builds you can easily live and thrive in combat.  Check out my guild member's stream:  http://www.twitch.tv/erhoben  You will see small groups thrive against many, I'll be playing on here most likely tomorrow, busy tonight.  Just looking at his stream right now I saw a successful 1v3, he is playing as an Engineer. 

This "Healer" you're talking about is ultimately a support character for their team. So many people think that healing should be only watching green bars and never worrying about doing anything but putting up the green numbers. This game is so much more complex than mash 1 and 2 to keep health bars topped off. It requires a synergy between you and your group mate's ability to use your skills correctly, use your profession correctly, and use the game mechanics correctly. There is a reason that you can evade attacks and positioning is important. If you are dying just questing you are not playing correctly. 

As a side note there are many ways to build a more supportive character to somewhat fill the role of a dedicated healer. As an engineer I have a backpack that allows me to drop Med Kits for people and cleansing vials. I also have a healing turret that provides passive aoe healing. The Necromancer has similar potential with their siphoning health and regeneration boons. The mechanics are in the game to build these types of characters it just takes some creativity. 

Originally posted by ssupple21

 

This "Healer" you're talking about is ultimately a support character for their team. So many people think that healing should be only watching green bars and never worrying about doing anything but putting up the green numbers. This game is so much more complex than mash 1 and 2 to keep health bars topped off. It requires a synergy between you and your group mate's ability to use your skills correctly, use your profession correctly, and use the game mechanics correctly. There is a reason that you can evade attacks and positioning is important. If you are dying just questing you are not playing correctly. 

As a side note there are many ways to build a more supportive character to somewhat fill the role of a dedicated healer. As an engineer I have a backpack that allows me to drop Med Kits for people and cleansing vials. I also have a healing turret that provides passive aoe healing. The Necromancer has similar potential with their siphoning health and regeneration boons. The mechanics are in the game to build these types of characters it just takes some creativity. 

Very true, albeit the healing is more of a small suppliment rather than large bursts, group sustain is more about helping your team by preventing damage, mitigating it, and controling the battlefield. 

Originally posted by RebelScum99

Originally posted by Entropy14

NO HEALERS !!!!! For once can we have a game thats different !!!!

 

There 30345983590358034583405034058340583405834905234235345347857345873485 MMOs out there with healers. FFS lets have one break the mold and do something new

 

The point of this game is to avoid damage, knowing when to dogde, when to roll , when to interupt ect......

 

you cant just hit 1-2-3 over and over and win in this game , thats the point.

 

There are games out right now that already have the kind of combat in which it is up to you to mitigate and avoid your own damage, and yet they still have healers as well.  So GW2 isn't doing anything earth-shattering here aside from removing a class archetype that a lot of people enjoy playing. 

Some seem to enjoy it for what it is, and you have your other games that do it like you enjoy it so I fail to see the problem.

Originally posted by WardTheGreat

Originally posted by ssupple21

 

This "Healer" you're talking about is ultimately a support character for their team. So many people think that healing should be only watching green bars and never worrying about doing anything but putting up the green numbers. This game is so much more complex than mash 1 and 2 to keep health bars topped off. It requires a synergy between you and your group mate's ability to use your skills correctly, use your profession correctly, and use the game mechanics correctly. There is a reason that you can evade attacks and positioning is important. If you are dying just questing you are not playing correctly. 

As a side note there are many ways to build a more supportive character to somewhat fill the role of a dedicated healer. As an engineer I have a backpack that allows me to drop Med Kits for people and cleansing vials. I also have a healing turret that provides passive aoe healing. The Necromancer has similar potential with their siphoning health and regeneration boons. The mechanics are in the game to build these types of characters it just takes some creativity. 

Very true, albeit the healing is more of a small suppliment rather than large bursts, group sustain is more about helping your team by preventing damage, mitigating it, and controling the battlefield. 

Kind of.  I was just playing an elementalist with a staff, using water attunement,  and i was able to hit some heavy burst heals that regenned pretty quickly,  plus a really decent large scale AOE heal that wasn't too shabby either.

Apart from that I only had 1 other support ability in that attunement and 2 damage abilities.  I was able to keep a small team up against a much larger team for a good amount of time with just those 2 heals.  It was about the last 2 or so hours of my livestream.

You can easily play a dedicated healer if you want to..  I was under the impression there were no healers in this game,  but my elementalist was a pretty good healer... its just tougher to be a good healer as all the abilities are aoe, and most of the time people just run through them without realizing its healing them.

The engineer bacpack isn't nearly as useful.  You drop bags, but if you run forward, more times than not you'll pick them up if you're hurt...  I love playing support characters,  but between the two, as far as healing goes,  elementalist is easy in comparison to the engineers pack.

Good tactics are important,  but unfortunately, in the W v W v W that I've done,  it really still comes down to.. numbers.. just numbers....  even if you watch that last bit,  I kept a lot of people up and we bombarded the other team for a long time, even took a few down, they just overpowered us... and it was like that in most cases.. either us on them, or them on us... and thats the point of these kinds of games, so before people start complaining about zergs,  that is exactly what you want when you ask for this kind of PvP.

Originally posted by RebelScum99

I'd say no for the simple fact that

No dedicated healer = more deaths

More deaths = more "Fight to Survive" animations

More "Fight to Survive" animations = more laughter for me.  Seriously, what is that?  It looks like you are picking up dirt and throwing it in order to survive.  Dumbest thing I've ever seen, but it gives me a great chuckle every time I see it.  

Don't the Tera threads need you to help argue how rooting does not ruin the "Real. Action. Combat"?

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Kind of.  I was just playing an elementalist with a staff, using water attunement,  and i was able to hit some heavy burst heals that regenned pretty quickly,  plus a really decent large scale AOE heal that wasn't too shabby either.

 

Apart from that I only had 1 other support ability in that attunement and 2 damage abilities.  I was able to keep a small team up against a much larger team for a good amount of time with just those 2 heals.  It was about the last 2 or so hours of my livestream.

 

You can easily play a dedicated healer if you want to..  I was under the impression there were no healers in this game,  but my elementalist was a pretty good healer... its just tougher to be a good healer as all the abilities are aoe, and most of the time people just run through them without realizing its healing them.

 

The engineer bacpack isn't nearly as useful.  You drop bags, but if you run forward, more times than not you'll pick them up if you're hurt...  I love playing support characters,  but between the two, as far as healing goes,  elementalist is easy in comparison to the engineers pack.

 

Good tactics are important,  but unfortunately, in the W v W v W that I've done,  it really still comes down to.. numbers.. just numbers....  even if you watch that last bit,  I kept a lot of people up and we bombarded the other team for a long time, even took a few down, they just overpowered us... and it was like that in most cases.. either us on them, or them on us... and thats the point of these kinds of games, so before people start complaining about zergs,  that is exactly what you want when you ask for this kind of PvP.

Nah I disagree, the cooldowns on the heals are spaced out so you can continuously burst heal at all times.  Also, it isn't always about numbers, Idk if he has the stream saved, but in the stream I linked, when I was playing earlier we had 6v15+ more than once and won out.  I really see zerging being decently affective early on, but when the game is out for awhile you will see plenty of small groups dismantling unorganized zergs.  Zergs will be for the players who aren't as frequent in PvP/comfortable, new players, and for major important battles, but usually a bulk of the stuff is going to be done with smaller groups that coordinate well.

We have to use a different kind of mindset to play this game now.  Every class has healing and rez abilities and this is a group effort kind of game.   Even more group effort than other games.  We can't just rely on one single person to do all the healing.  We have to watch each other's back.  

I think it creates a stronger bond among people.  

Besides, do you really want to keep typing  "LOOKING FOR HEALER!!!" in the chat window for an hour just so your group can go do raids or whatever?

Originally posted by WardTheGreat

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Kind of.  I was just playing an elementalist with a staff, using water attunement,  and i was able to hit some heavy burst heals that regenned pretty quickly,  plus a really decent large scale AOE heal that wasn't too shabby either.

 

Apart from that I only had 1 other support ability in that attunement and 2 damage abilities.  I was able to keep a small team up against a much larger team for a good amount of time with just those 2 heals.  It was about the last 2 or so hours of my livestream.

 

You can easily play a dedicated healer if you want to..  I was under the impression there were no healers in this game,  but my elementalist was a pretty good healer... its just tougher to be a good healer as all the abilities are aoe, and most of the time people just run through them without realizing its healing them.

 

The engineer bacpack isn't nearly as useful.  You drop bags, but if you run forward, more times than not you'll pick them up if you're hurt...  I love playing support characters,  but between the two, as far as healing goes,  elementalist is easy in comparison to the engineers pack.

 

Good tactics are important,  but unfortunately, in the W v W v W that I've done,  it really still comes down to.. numbers.. just numbers....  even if you watch that last bit,  I kept a lot of people up and we bombarded the other team for a long time, even took a few down, they just overpowered us... and it was like that in most cases.. either us on them, or them on us... and thats the point of these kinds of games, so before people start complaining about zergs,  that is exactly what you want when you ask for this kind of PvP.

Nah I disagree, the cooldowns on the heals are spaced out so you can continuously burst heal at all times.  Also, it isn't always about numbers, Idk if he has the stream saved, but in the stream I linked, when I was playing earlier we had 6v15+ more than once and won out.  I really see zerging being decently affective early on, but when the game is out for awhile you will see plenty of small groups dismantling unorganized zergs.  Zergs will be for the players who aren't as frequent in PvP/comfortable, new players, and for major important battles, but usually a bulk of the stuff is going to be done with smaller groups that coordinate well.

I would have to disagree on that....  I forsee bigger guilds getting together and flash attacking keeps in the future.  A small coordinated team of 4 - 6 people is great for late night battles, or taking supply lines,  but the numbers will consistently win given time.

I have my entire.. 6 - 10 hours saved from my livestream.  You'll see a number of times where we (with me as a healer) were able to push back a team with a few more guys.  At one point we took a supply point.. about 6 - 8 of us or so,  and then we were attacked by about 12 - 15  (its around the 2 hour mark of the latest video)  and we did end up taking them,  until they picked up reinforcements and completely outnumbered us.  I think there were still some survivors,  but the point remains, while a coordinated team will be better overall,  numbers have proven, even in this game, to be more powerful.

Not just against other players, but have you tried to bring down a gate yet?  Even with a Ram and no defenders, it takes a very long time even with 20 people....  I think I have that recorded in the latest video too...  I'm probably going to put a highlight reel together at some point.

Needless to say,  the small heal with the quick cooldown can heal most players to full,  and the other AOE heal can heal most to half,   I think we'll see many more elementalist healers later on.

Dying a lot is good right? I thought a lot of people on these forums were complaining that nowadays you never die in MMOs.

I died a lot in GW1 too especially in the beginning because the game was actually that - a game. And a game requires skill and attention to play unlike MMOs where you just faceroll the keyboard and you win.

Was playing for afew hours on a Norn Guardian and I haven't run into this problem yet. Was doing Pve and WvW and I maybe died a total of 3-4 times during the WvW foreray? What I found most important was to know when to back off in both PvE and PvP.

Standard procedure for me so far to retreat is to dodge roll back acouple times, pop my shield ability that blocks all ranged and then dodge roll again as some energy recharges at this point. Then pop my self heal which also blocks attacks, and roll some more :) At that point I'm able to avoid most deaths, although my time in game has been limited so I doubt this will always work lol. 

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by WardTheGreat

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Kind of.  I was just playing an elementalist with a staff, using water attunement,  and i was able to hit some heavy burst heals that regenned pretty quickly,  plus a really decent large scale AOE heal that wasn't too shabby either.

 

Apart from that I only had 1 other support ability in that attunement and 2 damage abilities.  I was able to keep a small team up against a much larger team for a good amount of time with just those 2 heals.  It was about the last 2 or so hours of my livestream.

 

You can easily play a dedicated healer if you want to..  I was under the impression there were no healers in this game,  but my elementalist was a pretty good healer... its just tougher to be a good healer as all the abilities are aoe, and most of the time people just run through them without realizing its healing them.

 

The engineer bacpack isn't nearly as useful.  You drop bags, but if you run forward, more times than not you'll pick them up if you're hurt...  I love playing support characters,  but between the two, as far as healing goes,  elementalist is easy in comparison to the engineers pack.

 

Good tactics are important,  but unfortunately, in the W v W v W that I've done,  it really still comes down to.. numbers.. just numbers....  even if you watch that last bit,  I kept a lot of people up and we bombarded the other team for a long time, even took a few down, they just overpowered us... and it was like that in most cases.. either us on them, or them on us... and thats the point of these kinds of games, so before people start complaining about zergs,  that is exactly what you want when you ask for this kind of PvP.

Nah I disagree, the cooldowns on the heals are spaced out so you can continuously burst heal at all times.  Also, it isn't always about numbers, Idk if he has the stream saved, but in the stream I linked, when I was playing earlier we had 6v15+ more than once and won out.  I really see zerging being decently affective early on, but when the game is out for awhile you will see plenty of small groups dismantling unorganized zergs.  Zergs will be for the players who aren't as frequent in PvP/comfortable, new players, and for major important battles, but usually a bulk of the stuff is going to be done with smaller groups that coordinate well.

I would have to disagree on that....  I forsee bigger guilds getting together and flash attacking keeps in the future.  A small coordinated team of 4 - 6 people is great for late night battles, or taking supply lines,  but the numbers will consistently win given time.

 

I have my entire.. 6 - 10 hours saved from my livestream.  You'll see a number of times where we (with me as a healer) were able to push back a team with a few more guys.  At one point we took a supply point.. about 6 - 8 of us or so,  and then we were attacked by about 12 - 15  (its around the 2 hour mark of the latest video)  and we did end up taking them,  until they picked up reinforcements and completely outnumbered us.  I think there were still some survivors,  but the point remains, while a coordinated team will be better overall,  numbers have proven, even in this game, to be more powerful.

 

Not just against other players, but have you tried to bring down a gate yet?  Even with a Ram and no defenders, it takes a very long time even with 20 people....  I think I have that recorded in the latest video too...  I'm probably going to put a highlight reel together at some point.

 

Needless to say,  the small heal with the quick cooldown can heal most players to full,  and the other AOE heal can heal most to half,   I think we'll see many more elementalist healers later on.

I'm confused I thought there was no specific healer in GW2, what u just said right now makes no sense. So the Elementalist is a dedicated healer? How is that possible?

All i can say is that you need to play better.

I'm sorry it's true, people are way too attached to the trinity mentality, hence, they suck at this game.

Healers would make this game a pvp clone of sooo many others, screw that!

Originally posted by Vepgenus

I'm confused I thought there was no specific healer in GW2, what u just said right now makes no sense. So the Elementalist is a dedicated healer? How is that possible?

It's okay, he's a little wrong on it.  It is impossible for an Elementalist to be a dedicated healer no matter what.  If you hop into the mists and look at their heals on all weapons, and then look at the cooldowns on their heals, it is impossible for them to outheal any damage in this game.  It can be supplimental, and can be worked into a support build that does a decent amount of healing, but it can't be the only thing it does.  Masked, I think your full heals are a little skewed by the fact that people in WvW are running around with little stats, so when the heal goes off it can full heal them etc... 

However, there are a lot of support builds I can see so far that add a good amount of healing, but nothing that can be dedicated.  They still need to be a decent threat in the battle, or offer some other forms of support, via. control, damage prevention etc..