Originally posted by Nethriil

Originally posted by Wolvards

Originally posted by killion81

Originally posted by Nethriil
How many do you Get in for wvwvw. Will it not be random people everytime. I can just see all the l2p and frustrated players. None of the big pvp Maps in wow were much fun in the long run. Why would a battle taking 2 weeks to finish be any fun? Give me 10v10 or 15v15 anytime over this time waste. In the end players always wants fast results. U dont Get that with a 2 week bore. I Think this wvwvw hype is gonna disappoint a lot of people.

 

I take it you never played DAoC?

No he hasn't, He is a poor deprived wow e-sporter player. It's a shame what that game has made of their expectations :(

 

 

Do u not Get frustrated when half the team is not doing what they should be doing? Av in wow was fun when the whole guild played together. Once you got in random groups it was boring and no one would listen. It is gonna be the same with wvwvw.

first, let me apologize for my first post. that was kinda dicked.

Second. Don't use WoW as an example.

Sure at times it will be a zerg fest, as is any game with this type of combat. Sure it will be frustrating when your team is losing. Was your E-sport perfect 100% of the time? no, thought so. In DAoC we have zergs, but we have leaders. And those leaders have proven themselves as being tactically superior, hence why they are the zerg leaders. WoW i can't speak for, but it was a different set-up.

Team A is defending a keep. 40 people.

Team B is attacking, 80 people.

Team A is some what holding out, but will lose if they don't get help.

Team B gets through the gate, starts pushing in the courtyard.

Team A falls back to the lord, lost about 10 people.

Team B Starts killing Team A at the lord.

Team C comes in with 50 people, takes out half of Team B's backfield in a matter of seconds. Now Team A has 20 people, Team B has maybe 40, and Team C still has 60. Who wins? Well the tactically superior team does. Maybe Team A's main force arrives and saves the day? Maybe Team B has another Suad of 50 come behind Team C.

Maybee..... ANYTHING.

Thats what makes it so exciting. Thats what brings WvW to life.

That is what makes it NOT an E-sport. WoW didn't capture that essence. DAoC did. GW2 is trying to.

Originally posted by Nethriil
@ wolward - if you Think thats fun to do for 2 weeks then by all means enjoy it. Zerging from one Spot to the NeXT is just not my cup of tea.

If a large fight over 20 people is considered zerging, then you will never be able to leave E-sport. so have fun with your cup of tea. And i've been doing it for about 7 years, holding 30 bucks a month subscription, its not a cup of tea, it's a shot of tequila

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Originally posted by Wolvards

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Originally posted by Nethriil
@ wolward - if you Think thats fun to do for 2 weeks then by all means enjoy it. Zerging from one Spot to the NeXT is just not my cup of tea.

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If a large fight over 20 people is considered zerging, then you will never be able to leave E-sport. so have fun with your cup of tea. And i've been doing it for about 7 years, holding 30 bucks a month subscription, its not a cup of tea, it's a shot of tequila

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Both have their place really, and frankly I'm glad to see some WvWvW (or RvR as some of us DAoC/WAR refugee's think of it.) again from a AAA title.

I love RvR (damn...gotta get used to it being WvWvW now) and it'll be nice to have a 3rd faction again, because as you described earlier, it really adds something when a 3rd faction can come along and wipe out 2 other factions, or help one and so on and so on. It's good stuff.

Structured, or instanced PvP has it's place too, it's instant and quick PvP, fast gratification, and you really do have resolution in short order, and sometimes it's nice to have that.

We all oughta be embracing the fact that GW2 right now appears to offer an opportunity for people who want both, because not enough games have done that over the years.

Originally posted by Nethriil
@ wolward - if you Think thats fun to do for 2 weeks then by all means enjoy it. Zerging from one Spot to the NeXT is just not my cup of tea.

If you join the zerg then I guess this is what you would be doing.

My guild will be targetting and holding keeps, heading out to support other guilds and hitting supplies etc when we have the manpower.

There is a difference between a 'zerg' and a directed army. I have a feeling there will be guilds out there that will tear through unorganised hordes like butter.

I would guess that the servers that can't get organised will find themselves at the short bus end of the server rankings pretty quickly.

I noticed all the flaming about rivalry, when it comes to WvW.

Nobody is talking about comradery, which is what Anet is going for, imo. Thats what is missing from the MMO today, so much emphasis on me me me, and gear, and me me me.

Does nobody want to build strong guilds and blast the enemy, why is it all about your enemy, and you?!

EDIT: And how can you, the OP, include your enemies when talking about WvWvW community?? How are they apart of your community? This thread is just wrong....

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I noticed all the flaming about rivalry, when it comes to WvW.

Nobody is talking about comradery, which is what Anet is going for, imo. Thats what is missing from the MMO today, so much emphasis on me me me, and gear, and me me me.

Does nobody want to build strong guilds and blast the enemy, why is it all about your enemy, and you?!

Well, I actually kinda did, just in the post before yours ;)

"I would guess that the servers that can't get organised will find themselves at the short bus end of the server rankings pretty quickly."

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by Wolvards

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Originally posted by Nethriil
@ wolward - if you Think thats fun to do for 2 weeks then by all means enjoy it. Zerging from one Spot to the NeXT is just not my cup of tea.

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If a large fight over 20 people is considered zerging, then you will never be able to leave E-sport. so have fun with your cup of tea. And i've been doing it for about 7 years, holding 30 bucks a month subscription, its not a cup of tea, it's a shot of tequila

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Both have their place really, and frankly I'm glad to see some WvWvW (or RvR as some of us DAoC/WAR refugee's think of it.) again from a AAA title.

I love RvR (damn...gotta get used to it being WvWvW now) and it'll be nice to have a 3rd faction again, because as you described earlier, it really adds something when a 3rd faction can come along and wipe out 2 other factions, or help one and so on and so on. It's good stuff.

Structured, or instanced PvP has it's place too, it's instant and quick PvP, fast gratification, and you really do have resolution in short order, and sometimes it's nice to have that.

We all oughta be embracing the fact that GW2 right now appears to offer an opportunity for people who want both, because not enough games have done that over the years.

O yeah i agree, but i also don't think they deserve to be in the same place, atleast not with PvP based gear. GW2 doesn't have this, but i still am skeptical because...

Say you get guild A with a small man team of 6, they are really solid players, but they don't have the instanced BG gear. Guild B just ground out the top tiers BG PvP gear and are now bored, so they gou out into WvW/RvR with it, and they completely destroy guild B. Guild B will then be forced to go grind in the BGs to get that PvP Gear. But they don't like E-sport. So it's miserable.

So while GW2 won't have this scenario, i think it will be semi-ok. But i don't think having one type with an incentive, and another type without an incentive works well in games. Make both forms have the same goals. And similar speed in doing so, that way the e-sporters can e-sport, and the RvRrs can RvR. And we both go our merry way :) Taking shots of tequila :)

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I noticed all the flaming about rivalry, when it comes to WvW.

Nobody is talking about comradery, which is what Anet is going for, imo. Thats what is missing from the MMO today, so much emphasis on me me me, and gear, and me me me.

Does nobody want to build strong guilds and blast the enemy, why is it all about your enemy, and you?!

 

Well, I actually kinda did, just in the post before yours ;)

 

"I would guess that the servers that can't get organised will find themselves at the short bus end of the server rankings pretty quickly."

Thats funny you should say that, just as I posted my comment, I read yours and thought to myself, "See, that guy knows what Im talking about!"

Good luck with your guild!

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I noticed all the flaming about rivalry, when it comes to WvW.

Nobody is talking about comradery, which is what Anet is going for, imo. Thats what is missing from the MMO today, so much emphasis on me me me, and gear, and me me me.

Does nobody want to build strong guilds and blast the enemy, why is it all about your enemy, and you?!

Well, I actually kinda did, just in the post before yours ;)

"I would guess that the servers that can't get organised will find themselves at the short bus end of the server rankings pretty quickly."

Thats funny you should say that, just as I posted my comment, I read yours and thought to myself, "See, that guy knows what Im talking about!"

Good luck with your guild!

lol cheers :)

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Originally posted by Adalwulff
 
EDIT: And how can you, the OP, include your enemies when talking about WvWvW community?? How are they apart of your community? This thread is just wrong....

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I'll ask the same question that someone else did to another poster. Have you ever played a game like DAoC or Warhammer, a single server game where one of the core elements is based around RvR style PvP? I dont mean it in a snarky way either, because I suspect if you had played one of those games you'd understand.

People on a server, are a community, just because they are on different factions doesnt mean that arent. That was one of the joys of games and titles like I named earlier. Just because people were on another faction and fought them did not mean they were not part of the same community, and the fact that I saw them in instanced PvP, in the world, and on forums it made for a much better relationship. People were not Friar 2038 I'd see that week, but it was a person, someone I got to know from all the extended contact a single server allows.

That's the difference I originally pointed out in the thread, is that servers making up the 3 worlds instead of 3 factions on the same world mean limited contact, and changing fights every couple of weeks. Single server they were your community, in the GW2 server there isnt a community, and that's what I was regretting.

Hope I'm clearer trying to explain.

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by Adalwulff
 
EDIT: And how can you, the OP, include your enemies when talking about WvWvW community?? How are they apart of your community? This thread is just wrong....

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I'll ask the same question that someone else did to another poster. Have you ever played a game like DAoC or Warhammer, a single server game where one of the core elements is based around RvR style PvP? I dont mean it in a snarky way either, because I suspect if you had played one of those games you'd understand.

People on a server, are a community, just because they are on different factions doesnt mean that arent. That was one of the joys of games and titles like I named earlier. Just because people were on another faction and fought them did not mean they were not part of the same community, and the fact that I saw them in instanced PvP, in the world, and on forums it made for a much better relationship. People were not Friar 2038 I'd see that week, but it was a person, someone I got to know from all the extended contact a single server allows.

That's the difference I originally pointed out in the thread, is that servers making up the 3 worlds instead of 3 factions on the same world mean limited contact, and changing fights every couple of weeks. Single server they were your community, in the GW2 server there isnt a community, and that's what I was regretting.

Hope I'm clearer trying to explain.

This ^

Playing Hibs, i know a few other faction players, never once have i talked to them, but i know how they play.

Castertroy is a keep camping homo LOL.

Billings is a zerger and a good one at that.

Clumsy is a hell of an offensive leader, uses siege properly too.

Kzar was similar to billings, but liked flanking a little more.

Oprah is in the same boat with billings.

Those are all just the BG leaders that i fought against.

I knew them, i mean i didn't, but i did.

Can't really describe it unless you've been there first hand. Leading an attack. And seeing the name that you really hoped wasn't going to be there, and knowing this was going to be a long fought out fight now.

You knew that when clumsy came over, he was going to take anything and everything he possibly could. Billings just wanted realm points. We knew this cause we've all been playing so long together.

Edit: as to the OPs point, about it feeling like you won't know your enemy, i feel exactly the same way. I wan't to know who they are, and have long enough to know how they play. Talking to them on forums going, DUDE!!!! that last fight was EPIC!!!

Originally posted by Wolvards

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by Adalwulff
 
EDIT: And how can you, the OP, include your enemies when talking about WvWvW community?? How are they apart of your community? This thread is just wrong....

---

 

I'll ask the same question that someone else did to another poster. Have you ever played a game like DAoC or Warhammer, a single server game where one of the core elements is based around RvR style PvP? I dont mean it in a snarky way either, because I suspect if you had played one of those games you'd understand.

People on a server, are a community, just because they are on different factions doesnt mean that arent. That was one of the joys of games and titles like I named earlier. Just because people were on another faction and fought them did not mean they were not part of the same community, and the fact that I saw them in instanced PvP, in the world, and on forums it made for a much better relationship. People were not Friar 2038 I'd see that week, but it was a person, someone I got to know from all the extended contact a single server allows.

That's the difference I originally pointed out in the thread, is that servers making up the 3 worlds instead of 3 factions on the same world mean limited contact, and changing fights every couple of weeks. Single server they were your community, in the GW2 server there isnt a community, and that's what I was regretting.

Hope I'm clearer trying to explain.

This ^

Playing Hibs, i know a few other faction players, never once have i talked to them, but i know how they play.

Castertroy is a keep camping homo LOL.

Billings is a zerger and a good one at that.

Clumsy is a hell of an offensive leader, uses siege properly too.

Kzar was similar to billings, but liked flanking a little more.

Oprah is in the same boat with billings.

Those are all just the BG leaders that i fought against.

I knew them, i mean i didn't, but i did.

Can't really describe it unless you've been there first hand. Leading an attack. And seeing the name that you really hoped wasn't going to be there, and knowing this was going to be a long fought out fight now.

You knew that when clumsy came over, he was going to take anything and everything he possibly could. Billings just wanted realm points. We knew this cause we've all been playing so long together.

 

Edit: as to the OPs point, about it feeling like you won't know your enemy, i feel exactly the same way. I wan't to know who they are, and have long enough to know how they play. Talking to them on forums going, DUDE!!!! that last fight was EPIC!!!

Ya, I know exactly what your talking about, but why couldnt you answer my question? All you did was prove exactly what I said, all you care about is your opinion, your vision of the WvW as you saw it in DAOC and other games.

I was there in DAOC, for many years. I remember a few stealthers, who were always backstabbing somebody, but that is not where my fondest memories are.

I remember my guild mates more than my enemies, thats the point you guys seem to be missing. Its funny how I can see your point, but you are unable to see mine, or even comprehend how I could possibly dissagree with you.

As for community, there is no way in hell, Im going to belive that the enemy servers are apart of my community. That doesnt even make sense. I dont talk to them. I dont plan sieges with them. I dont defend keeps with them. I dont do dungeons with them...ect...ect

To each his own I guess.

Originally posted by Wolvards

Edit: as to the OPs point, about it feeling like you won't know your enemy, i feel exactly the same way. I wan't to know who they are, and have long enough to know how they play. Talking to them on forums going, DUDE!!!! that last fight was EPIC!!!

The thing is WvW match ups only last two weeks. Even if names were displayed you wouldn't play with the other servers consistently enough to get to know them like in DAoC.

Even with only 2 match ups before fighting the same server again, that's still a month between you see those players again. Judging from the amount of servers available just for this Beta Weekend, I would be surprised to be matched up with the same server less than a month apart.

Originally posted by Baikal

Dont misunderstand me, I love the direction that ArenaNet has taken with this, but I keep having a few niggling issues in the back of my mind with it, and most of 'em center around community.

DAoC, pre-cross server WoW, Warhammer, even SWTOR, I like the community that builds up around PvP. You see a guild tag, or a name, you know if it is likely to be a challenging match or an easy match. You build friendly rivalries, and those things definitely took up a life of their own on forums, and in the game itself. My personal belief is that they undeniably added something enjoyable to my PvP experience.

This isnt a concern, or a complaint, but I do wonder how much I'm going to miss that added layer of enjoyment in GW2. It's just "Green Invader" or "Red Invader", and a guild tag, there is no sense of a permanent rivalry, it's a rivalry that changes every couple of weeks, and I dont know how deeply that matters. Yankees and Red Sox, Bears and Packers, these are rivalries that date back years and years, and that brings something extra for fans.

I realize how the matchmaking system works (and I like it) and I dont know that I'd trade the benefits of it for a permanent rivalry, at least I wont know for awhile until I see how it plays out. Anyone else feel like they'll miss a little something because of the way WvWvW is set up? Miss a favorite rival player, or guild kind of thing?

Do baseball teams play the same opponents all the time...or football teams play the same team over and over ?(yes ,I'm listening for your answer) Are there rivalrys among  those teams ? (listens intently)

I think over time there will develope rivalrys between servers.It will take a bit of time.But servers with good players........those players don't like to loose.So you will see some intense fights...and guilds moving from a server full of wusses to some with blood lust.

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by Requiamer

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Originally posted by Baikal
snip

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Don't you think rivalry might come later after, say, after a couple of months, between servers actually.

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Yes and no.

The problem is when there are the 2-4 week lulls when the winner advances and a loser drops. To me, that tends to diminish a rivalry a little bit. Of course I suppose you can argue that you'll build more, but in any case, I dont think they'd mean quite as much as the old time single server rivalries.

First off the downtime between WvWvW happens during server maintenance so the downtime is never really felt.  Second of all, just as in DAoC RvR you never saw the name of the enemy only things like "elf invader" or "Saracren invader" plus you would have to look for tell tail signs of which guild they were.  Like looking at their guild cloak. 

IMO GW2 will be no different in WvWvW.  Ny only concern with GW2 is the bastardization of the WoW kiddies who have no clue what open-ended realm conflict means.  I shudder to think of being on the one of the 2 losing sides (it will happen) and instead of the other losing server form an ad-hoc allegiance against the winning server they instead herp a derp the other loser.  I could def see this piss poor WoW type mentality taking hold and ruining what makes RvR style conflict so great.  I pray that the server my guild picks is mostly DAoC vets and most of the WoW baddies decide to play together so they can get curbstompe like the idiots they are.

Originally posted by Wolvards

Originally posted by killion81

Originally posted by Nethriil
How many do you Get in for wvwvw. Will it not be random people everytime. I can just see all the l2p and frustrated players. None of the big pvp Maps in wow were much fun in the long run. Why would a battle taking 2 weeks to finish be any fun? Give me 10v10 or 15v15 anytime over this time waste. In the end players always wants fast results. U dont Get that with a 2 week bore. I Think this wvwvw hype is gonna disappoint a lot of people.

 

I take it you never played DAoC?

No he hasn't, He is a poor deprived wow e-sporter player. It's a shame what that game has made of their expectations :(

 

GW1 also had that kind of PvP. So what you expect?

Originally posted by Nethriil

Originally posted by Slukjan

Originally posted by Msenge

Originally posted by drakaena
My main worry about WvWvW is that I may spent the majority of my time there looking for PvP, rather than actually PvPing. I don't have the time anymore to game all day, so if 70% of the time I'm just running around killing NPC's in hopes of escalating an epic battle, I might find myself playing less and less.

Well then it's a good thing the ingame map of the wvw area tells you where action is going on.

I hope that doesn't mean pvp will be one massive zergfest.

 

Of course it ll be a zerg fest. Just like the big wow bgs. Its the same type of players with the same intelligence.

Zerging can be fun as well. OLD AV... But with 3 factions and week long battle rather than 2 day long Old AV battles. It's Win win

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Adalwulff

I noticed all the flaming about rivalry, when it comes to WvW.

Nobody is talking about comradery, which is what Anet is going for, imo. Thats what is missing from the MMO today, so much emphasis on me me me, and gear, and me me me.

Does nobody want to build strong guilds and blast the enemy, why is it all about your enemy, and you?!

 

Well, I actually kinda did, just in the post before yours ;)

 

"I would guess that the servers that can't get organised will find themselves at the short bus end of the server rankings pretty quickly."

 

Thats funny you should say that, just as I posted my comment, I read yours and thought to myself, "See, that guy knows what Im talking about!"

Good luck with your guild!

I have to disagree with you. Many sports have team rivals. Not just a MeMeMe kind of thing...