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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Animations are placeholders!

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52 posts found
  L0C0Man

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/30/09
Posts: 919

4/21/12 8:16:52 PM#21
Originally posted by rpgalon
Originally posted by thebarbalag

Here's hoping. I was very excited about the game until I saw some actual gameplay footage. No lighting affects on character models. Sound effects that sound like they were made by (possibly for) deaf people...seriously, the "click, click" of a gun shot in that game is just sad. Terrible, clunky animations. I'd love to chalk it up to "just a beta" but looking at other games on schedule for a similar, or possibly even later release than the Secret World are looking and sounding a lot better in their betas.

the way TSW is doing things is: they are creating the content first, the game was already finished (content wise) sometime ago, this was their primary goal, to make polished content, that is also why some content was cut, because it would not ready till launch.

now that the game is finished (again, content wise), they are just working on animations (character and cutscenes), balance of the game builds/skills and bugs.

you should expect good amount of polished content through the whole game, a little more bugs on launch than SW:TOR, and animations on par with AoC animations.

 

I can understand why they're doing it that way, specially considering that one of the big complains about AoC was lack of content, and not only on endgame, there were at least two big 5+ level gaps where you had nothing to do but repeat the same repeatable quests over and over before you got high enough level to get new quests.

What can men do against such reckless hate?

  Toxia

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/09
Posts: 1289

4/21/12 8:19:53 PM#22

Animations having placeholders this close to launch is one thing I dislike and stops me from checking further into the game and playing it from day one.

Having SO MANY placeholders is the really big one for me. Saying 'oh, we have 100 animations that are still being done' two months before launch is questionable, but this game has many many more than 100 left to do. I just don't see them being done for launch. Seems to me to be damage control before the game launches.

The Deep Web is sca-ry.

  User Deleted
4/21/12 8:24:22 PM#23
Originally posted by GoldenArrow
Originally posted by ironhelix

This is ALWAYS stated before a game launches, and then it launches with the exact same animations that were seen in beta. What you see now is likely the finished product. I wouldn't get your hopes up.

I find it plausable since almost every spell in the game is casted with the "thunder clap" animation. Also I don't think devs are blantantly talking BS on the forums.

Then again animations never were a big thing for me, so I wouldn't care one way or the other :P

I hope they get this fixed because the current animations are freaking insanely dated and horrible.  I will go ahead and place a little bit of stock in they say they are going to fix them but we are talking about Funcom here.  Still if they were to get the animations to a respectable level I will greatly pleased because for me Animations are a very important gameplay element that must be right for me to like the game as well as feel immersed.

 

All in all I am cautiously optimistic and this gives me some more hope TSW will become a great innovative game.

  Abangyarudo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/01/07
Posts: 156

4/22/12 11:02:47 AM#24
Originally posted by tares
Originally posted by Abangyarudo
Originally posted by tares

500 animations is not that many in an MMO and not even that many for a regular beat them up game, maybe placeholder animations are normal two years befor launch but not two months prior. Animations are important because they impact the feel of combat.

The last two months were stated to be for polishing but you have to wonder what else is getting rushed last minute.

really and what game has more than 500 abilities they needed to make custom animations for? Lets keep in mind its just forn player characters...

TSW may have 500 abilities you can buy but many of them are passive so in reality TSW requires fewer animations than stated.  I do know from looking at other MMOs and games alpha builds combat animations usually come first so they can be later adjusted as part of testing.  WoW is popular and has fewer combat animations than other games, I used wow model viewer before to learnin how to design and animate in 3d max for fun.

Any MMO I have played aside from WoW has that many, WoW may have that many as model viewer neglected spell effects and there are tons of spells with diffrent animations. Any fighting game, tekken, mortal kombat.  a roster of 20 will easily have 20+ animations per member 4-10 + special moves, then 10-20+ normal attacks, fighting games would be the bench mark for collision testing and every move is tuned by reach, recovery, and other effects so moves and hit boxes are fighting games.  Games like ninja gaiden, god of war, and devil may cry have about that many moves due to diffrent weapons normal attacks, fatalities, and combos, what is more is this genre does animations much better than others, which is quite a shame since people spend more times in MMOs.  I played the new batman games they likely have that many in the random combat moves that go off when you attack, take downs, and other things.

I don't play to many games so are likely other genres and games I missed but pretty much all of them and is still hard to imagine waiting until the last minute to thow them into a game as animations are the biggest factor in how combat feels.  At least test animations and combat before saying a game is ready to be released imo.

 

Please note everything you consider an animation... I've never played any mmo that had 500 unique animations for the pc (player character) only. So I'm inclined to believe you're talking specifically about other genres. Also going the route of saying of well in mortal kombat theres 20+ animations each between 20 characters is different. Fighting games are inherently different so it reeks of desparation. 

To further your example: 

In mortal kombat it is only nesscary to load 1 background, 2 fights and the animations. This allows for alot of leeway because there is still alot of open memory left. In an mmo you're loading your character and everyone around you. So if you took MK animations, backgrounds, etc etc and applied it to an mmo it would run like a snail. So there goes comparing apples and oranges. MK will also show you animations quicker because the game will be finished 6 months to a year before it is released. That is without mentioning how relatively simple a fighting game is to an mmo. When you understand the difference between the genres and why they require different animations you may have a leg to stand on in your criticism. 

PrinceDestiny Xfire Miniprofile
  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4428

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

4/22/12 11:53:36 PM#25

Knowing Funcom, they'll release the animations alright.........But you'll have to buy them from the cash shop.

I feel that the state of the genre is such that a total and complete failure is needed so it can be reborn anew.
I'm actually hoping this new generation of 8 button MMOs will make that happen.

  tares

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/11
Posts: 384

4/23/12 5:30:00 AM#26
Originally posted by Abangyarudo
Originally posted by tares
Originally posted by Abangyarudo
Originally posted by tares

500 animations is not that many in an MMO and not even that many for a regular beat them up game, maybe placeholder animations are normal two years befor launch but not two months prior. Animations are important because they impact the feel of combat.

The last two months were stated to be for polishing but you have to wonder what else is getting rushed last minute.

really and what game has more than 500 abilities they needed to make custom animations for? Lets keep in mind its just forn player characters...

TSW may have 500 abilities you can buy but many of them are passive so in reality TSW requires fewer animations than stated.  I do know from looking at other MMOs and games alpha builds combat animations usually come first so they can be later adjusted as part of testing.  WoW is popular and has fewer combat animations than other games, I used wow model viewer before to learnin how to design and animate in 3d max for fun.

Any MMO I have played aside from WoW has that many, WoW may have that many as model viewer neglected spell effects and there are tons of spells with diffrent animations. Any fighting game, tekken, mortal kombat.  a roster of 20 will easily have 20+ animations per member 4-10 + special moves, then 10-20+ normal attacks, fighting games would be the bench mark for collision testing and every move is tuned by reach, recovery, and other effects so moves and hit boxes are fighting games.  Games like ninja gaiden, god of war, and devil may cry have about that many moves due to diffrent weapons normal attacks, fatalities, and combos, what is more is this genre does animations much better than others, which is quite a shame since people spend more times in MMOs.  I played the new batman games they likely have that many in the random combat moves that go off when you attack, take downs, and other things.

I don't play to many games so are likely other genres and games I missed but pretty much all of them and is still hard to imagine waiting until the last minute to thow them into a game as animations are the biggest factor in how combat feels.  At least test animations and combat before saying a game is ready to be released imo.

 

Please note everything you consider an animation... I've never played any mmo that had 500 unique animations for the pc (player character) only.

TSW won't have 500 abilities as many of the total possible skills are passive.

SWTOR has that many 8 classes x 2 as animations are not mirrored that have three trees and require 20+ action bars for most classes (edit I spam an abilities when tooling around because it looks cool but is so useless I should never have it on my hotbar http://www.torhead.com/ability/aJylyAW/whirling-blow, they just gave me a free month of play time. Rift has tons of class trees, Diablo 3 will have 20 active abilities for 5 classes but then runes will modify the animations of the normal abilities to go way over 500.  Diablo 3 and Tera are TSW's competition,  Dioblo 3 had more development time and likely a similar size staff.  Tera has been released in asia for a while so TSW needs to be awesome by beta weekend and combat animations are a part of that.  It took six months to overhaul the female melee attack animations in AoC and I'm guessing it was by the same two doing this so good luck, I will be playing diablo but TSW premise did look interesting.

MK 9 had a series of patches directly after launch, to remove infinates, fix, or change things, Funcom should take note of that as due to the post launch polish that game will be at evo again and had a run on MLG so it wasn't finalized at all six months before launch but is now respected in the genre's elite community, which creates post launch hype and sells boxes.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4837

4/23/12 5:35:57 AM#27
Originally posted by Kabaal

I'm inclined to believe that they're placeholders, Funcom are usually pretty good with animations (excluding bugs).

This! No matter what Age of Conan was at launch and all the bugs and issues it suffered from!

If one thing was polished and well done in that game, it were the animations!

So in that respect.... I have faith that the animations will be sorted before launch.

  dageeza

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/14/04
Posts: 577

4/23/12 5:40:35 AM#28

Bah dont worry folks, its funcom!

All of this stuff will be fixed in a patch just before the game goes F2P in early 2014!

Just a (sarcastic humor) warning folks, dont go falling in love with any skill on the grinding,,, i mean skill wheel within the first year because fudgecom will likely still be using subscribers as beta testers and things will get broke,,, i mean will change...:)

 

 

Playing GW2..

  Faynth

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/11/06
Posts: 240

4/23/12 7:04:43 AM#29
Originally posted by Abangyarudo
Originally posted by stragen001
 

I suspect this is PR spin.

I reckon that the animations that are currently in the game, that we saw from beta are the ones that they fully intended to be in at release.......... until the feedback from players saying that they are clunky and awkward looking en-masse.

Now they are changing them.

Well, at least they are listening.....

As a former video game design student. Animations are pretty much the last thing you worry about graphically ... when we budget its for animations to be handled last. There is a couple of reasons for this: 

1) We want to handle all the animations at once. So it would be redudent and non-cost effective to say do animations in the middle then program more into the game and have to bring back the animation team to complete said animations. Most animators are paid for the length of time they are working. So doing this would mean you'd have to retain the animation team for essentially doing nothing. 

2) The nature of graphical effects may require changing the animation. 

3) Programming may interfere with the animation requiring you to change said animation. (this is rare but happens more then people realize) 

 

 

Same i work for IT-Consulting Company for Infrastructure Maintenance and i had my nose into a Game Development Company. Its pretty much like you described it.

The guys to make stuff pretty and shiny are the last to get the call for duty after pretty much everything else is done. IF they get to complete the job then is a diffrent story.

 

  Nerovipus

Novice Member

Joined: 4/21/12
Posts: 44

4/23/12 7:08:48 AM#30

uh ooh here come the usual funcom excuses. This game will be a mess just like their other mmo's.

  zevni78

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 1116

4/23/12 10:20:49 AM#31

The problem is that people have been complaining about the animations for over a year, if you go on Youtube which i do to get a feel for the general audience's first reactions to new mmo trailers, the majority not already fans think the combat looks like ass, it is costing Funcom new converts. The modern looks means they cant hide behind a stylistic, fantasy or sci fi look, the uncanny valley or worse cheap impression is going to be their unless they do more than other new mmos have to. Personaly I dont think the technology is there yet for a modern mmo.

  Zekiah

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2533

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

4/23/12 10:24:11 AM#32

For their sake, I hope so. The casting animation is stupid silly.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  Volkmar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 2507

4/24/12 3:11:17 AM#33

I can understand some casting animations being placeholders, but do they really want me the believe the JUMPING animation is too?

Caused it looked horrible last time I checked and that is such an universal animation that was prolly done quite early.

"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"

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  User Deleted
4/24/12 8:42:54 AM#34
Originally posted by Jesterftk
Originally posted by Abangyarudo
Originally posted by stragen001
 

I suspect this is PR spin.

I reckon that the animations that are currently in the game, that we saw from beta are the ones that they fully intended to be in at release.......... until the feedback from players saying that they are clunky and awkward looking en-masse.

Now they are changing them.

Well, at least they are listening.....

As a former video game design student. Animations are pretty much the last thing you worry about graphically ... when we budget its for animations to be handled last. There is a couple of reasons for this: 

1) We want to handle all the animations at once. So it would be redudent and non-cost effective to say do animations in the middle then program more into the game and have to bring back the animation team to complete said animations. Most animators are paid for the length of time they are working. So doing this would mean you'd have to retain the animation team for essentially doing nothing. 

2) The nature of graphical effects may require changing the animation. 

3) Programming may interfere with the animation requiring you to change said animation. (this is rare but happens more then people realize) 

 

 

Same i work for IT-Consulting Company for Infrastructure Maintenance and i had my nose into a Game Development Company. Its pretty much like you described it.

The guys to make stuff pretty and shiny are the last to get the call for duty after pretty much everything else is done. IF they get to complete the job then is a diffrent story.

 

Just wanted to post in the non troll/fanboi side argument in this thread.  Most have ignored it since it doesnt fit their snarky feeling on the developer.

 

 

  remyburke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 2999

I liked MMOs better when gamers didn't play them, and just geeks did.

4/24/12 8:45:05 AM#35

Ya right. I'll believe it when I see it. These are the animations you're all getting when the game launches. He's full of shit, just like the rest of the spin doctors over at Funcom. Prove me wrong TSW! I'm seriously...please, because I want to like your game.

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  remyburke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
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I liked MMOs better when gamers didn't play them, and just geeks did.

4/24/12 8:48:00 AM#36
Originally posted by L0C0Man
Originally posted by rpgalon
Originally posted by thebarbalag

Here's hoping. I was very excited about the game until I saw some actual gameplay footage. No lighting affects on character models. Sound effects that sound like they were made by (possibly for) deaf people...seriously, the "click, click" of a gun shot in that game is just sad. Terrible, clunky animations. I'd love to chalk it up to "just a beta" but looking at other games on schedule for a similar, or possibly even later release than the Secret World are looking and sounding a lot better in their betas.

the way TSW is doing things is: they are creating the content first, the game was already finished (content wise) sometime ago, this was their primary goal, to make polished content, that is also why some content was cut, because it would not ready till launch.

now that the game is finished (again, content wise), they are just working on animations (character and cutscenes), balance of the game builds/skills and bugs.

you should expect good amount of polished content through the whole game, a little more bugs on launch than SW:TOR, and animations on par with AoC animations.

 

I can understand why they're doing it that way, specially considering that one of the big complains about AoC was lack of content, and not only on endgame, there were at least two big 5+ level gaps where you had nothing to do but repeat the same repeatable quests over and over before you got high enough level to get new quests.

If the Content Team and the Art and Animation Team are the same people, then Funcom has bigger problems than jerky, ugly character movement.

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  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18795

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4/24/12 8:51:04 AM#37

Definitely adds to the pile of reasons why I won't be preordering this title until I've gotten a chance to see it first hand. Funcom's track record of doing stuff like this is too long and I'd rather wait to play it once its in the state it really deserves to be in.

I always wondered if I would have enjoyed AOC more had I joined it about a year or so after launch.

 

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  oakierush

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 34

4/24/12 9:02:16 AM#38

I read somewhere that there are still many placeholder animations in Anarchy Online. I think the floating text that you see appear over your head when you use special attacks or martial arts attacks were supposed to be placeholders for actual animations. How long has anarchy online been around? I believe they're still using these "placeholders."

  CyanK

Novice Member

Joined: 9/10/11
Posts: 20

4/24/12 9:03:49 AM#39

I frankly could care less about character animations or graphics in general for that matter.

If the content is engagin and character development is half as thought provoking as they are touting it to be I'll play this game, if not, there are plenty of others out there.

I can't think of a single example of a game I quit playing or refused to play based on looks and animations alone. Probably cause I grew up on a diet of Atari and a shelves full of PC games that could all fit on a 1g USB drive now.

As for Funcom's track record, nuts to that. Inthe realm of music there are literally hundreds if not thousands of one hit wonders or bands that released one trancendant album and the rest of their catalog being pure shit. Perhaps this is Funcom's magnum opus, everything is conjecture till open beta.

  User Deleted
4/24/12 9:06:12 AM#40
Originally posted by ironhelix

This is ALWAYS stated before a game launches, and then it launches with the exact same animations that were seen in beta. What you see now is likely the finished product. I wouldn't get your hopes up.

right on.. its a Failcoms game afterall.

nothing will be changed after release..

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