Originally posted by Bigbadwlf

The truth of the matter is, even the most ardent hater of Tera has complimented it's combat system, Tera is true action combat in every sense of the word.  GW2 is shooting itself in the foot boasting it's game as true action combat, that's going to put it right up against Tera's system.

And yes I will be playing GW2's BWE, and unfortunately for NCSoft, I'm not a paid scrub journalist who couldn't PvP his way out of a paperbag.  Me and thousands of other real PvPers will put GW2's combat to the test and we're going to tear those BGs apart.  Tears will be everywhere.   We'll see which game really should hold the mantle of "True Action Combat".  And I don't owe a thing to EME, if GW2's combat is better, then I will play GW2. 

I played the beta until level 16 and I decided Tera isn't for me. I don't hate it, i think a lot of people will enjoy it. One of the things I had trouble with was that I thought I was getting a more action oriented combat and what I got was a lot of rooting. I guess this can be changed at level 20 with some sort of inscriptions at the cost of some dps, but I didn't get that far.

And for what it's worth, I don't think GW2 is advertising itself as true action combat, at least I haven't seen this claim.

It's unfortunate that a lot of people are looking for "payback" against GW2, but I suppose that's the nature of forums. I hope that players find enjoyment in any game they choose to play.

Originally posted by Charlizzard

Originally posted by Bigbadwlf

The truth of the matter is, even the most ardent hater of Tera has complimented it's combat system, Tera is true action combat in every sense of the word.  GW2 is shooting itself in the foot boasting it's game as true action combat, that's going to put it right up against Tera's system.

And yes I will be playing GW2's BWE, and unfortunately for NCSoft, I'm not a paid scrub journalist who couldn't PvP his way out of a paperbag.  Me and thousands of other real PvPers will put GW2's combat to the test and we're going to tear those BGs apart.  Tears will be everywhere.   We'll see which game really should hold the mantle of "True Action Combat".  And I don't owe a thing to EME, if GW2's combat is better, then I will play GW2. 

I played the beta until level 16 and I decided Tera isn't for me. I don't hate it, i think a lot of people will enjoy it. One of the things I had trouble with was that I thought I was getting a more action oriented combat and what I got was a lot of rooting. I guess this can be changed at level 20 with some sort of inscriptions at the cost of some dps, but I didn't get this far.

And for what it's worth, I don't think GW2 is advertising itself as true action combat, at least I haven't seen this claim.

It's unfortunate that a lot of people are looking for "payback" against GW2, but I suppose that's the nature of forums. I hope that players find enjoyment in any game they choose to play.

Well said. After playing Tera's beta I also decided that it is not for me. As I've said now several times, I have nothing against Tera and hope it does well. I look forward to playing GW2's beta this weekend. See ya'll there!

This TERA vs GW2 is getting old.  While i have no intention of playing TERA, i'm rooting for it.

No pun intended.

Even though I won't be playing Tera, I do hope it does well. I wouldn't wish for any game to go the way of AoC, Warhammer, SWTOR...utter failures....

I'll be trying GW2 and Planetside 2 because I like big battles in pvp. I don't care for roaming about killing lowbies (done it before, there's no challenge in it for me), so no open world pvp in GW2 is fine by me. The original Planetside had massive 3 way battles and that's what I look forward to most with Planetside 2. I'll play GW2 and Planetside, hey no reason not to, no subscription fee on both.

One game doesn't have to kill another to be able to play them. In 2012 it's not like the old days of the late 90's/early 2000's where there wasn't a lot of choice...we can play/subscribe to multiple games monthly, we're not limited to playing just one, even if they have a subscription of $15 bucks..$15 bucks a month is darn cheap. I can't go to a movie on that budget.

Originally posted by Alders

This TERA vs GW2 is getting old.  While i have no intention of playing TERA, i'm rooting for it.

No pun intended.

LOL

I agree. I think Tera and GW2 are trying to do a little bit of the same; change the mmo gaming paradigm a bit. I see both Tera and GW2, together with Rift all on the same team; only problem is that they will be competing for the same playerbase.

Allies (GW2, Tera, Rift) vs Axis (WOW, SWTOR)

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Bigbadwlf

Originally posted by Kehdar

 

You are trying to sound objective and then BAM "Since GW2 does not scam their playerbase into paying $15 USD per month" and here it goes again. 

SCAM? Are you for real? this is ridicolous if not borderline slandering. I don't see any EME employee point a gun at you or talk you into sub to their game. So what the hell are you talking about?

Yeah be careful friend, you don't want to end up losing your account defending Tera (in the Tera forums) like I did against GW2 players.

The truth of the matter is, even the most ardent hater of Tera has complimented it's combat system, Tera is true action combat in every sense of the word.  GW2 is shooting itself in the foot boasting it's game as true action combat, that's going to put it right up against Tera's system.

And yes I will be playing GW2's BWE, and unfortunately for NCSoft, I'm not a paid scrub journalist who couldn't PvP his way out of a paperbag.  Me and thousands of other real PvPers will put GW2's combat to the test and we're going to tear those BGs apart.  Tears will be everywhere.   We'll see which game really should hold the mantle of "True Action Combat".  And I don't owe a thing to EME, if GW2's combat is better, then I will play GW2. 

Unfortunately for ArenaNet they let a bunch of journalists overhype GW2's combat to god status, and bashing Tera's combat mechanics which is the biggest mistake they could have ever made.  Everybody is going to go into GW2's BWE thinking there going to be able to dodge and react to any of a real PvPer's cheap faceroll PvP  tactics, like they could have in Tera, and leave ArenaNet cleaning up the mess.

I'm looking forward to some serious payback.

 

Taking your account seemed the smart choice, going by your post.

I'll bet you havent even played GW2, have you?

I've been following GW2 extensively and have played PvP competitively over multiple genres for almost a decade, I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to handle GW2 PvP.  Also I'm only PvPing against other people who haven't played GW2 so I don't see the problem.  I actually do hope people that  players like Boon Control who have thoroughly tested GW2 like show up in the BWE and wreck havoc in PvP.  That'll send even more playing running back to Tera's combat system.

Please point out exactly what is wrong with my post? Because there was no flaming of anybody's response, no bashing of other people's games, and I was staying on topic until someone else brought up GW2.  The fact that every Tera thread devolves into a conversation about GW2 is how I got banned.  And yeah I am getting tired of it, as is every other Tera player on this forum.

Originally posted by Bigbadwlf

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Bigbadwlf

Originally posted by Kehdar

 

You are trying to sound objective and then BAM "Since GW2 does not scam their playerbase into paying $15 USD per month" and here it goes again. 

SCAM? Are you for real? this is ridicolous if not borderline slandering. I don't see any EME employee point a gun at you or talk you into sub to their game. So what the hell are you talking about?

Yeah be careful friend, you don't want to end up losing your account defending Tera (in the Tera forums) like I did against GW2 players.

The truth of the matter is, even the most ardent hater of Tera has complimented it's combat system, Tera is true action combat in every sense of the word.  GW2 is shooting itself in the foot boasting it's game as true action combat, that's going to put it right up against Tera's system.

And yes I will be playing GW2's BWE, and unfortunately for NCSoft, I'm not a paid scrub journalist who couldn't PvP his way out of a paperbag.  Me and thousands of other real PvPers will put GW2's combat to the test and we're going to tear those BGs apart.  Tears will be everywhere.   We'll see which game really should hold the mantle of "True Action Combat".  And I don't owe a thing to EME, if GW2's combat is better, then I will play GW2. 

Unfortunately for ArenaNet they let a bunch of journalists overhype GW2's combat to god status, and bashing Tera's combat mechanics which is the biggest mistake they could have ever made.  Everybody is going to go into GW2's BWE thinking there going to be able to dodge and react to any of a real PvPer's cheap faceroll PvP  tactics, like they could have in Tera, and leave ArenaNet cleaning up the mess.

I'm looking forward to some serious payback.

 

Taking your account seemed the smart choice, going by your post.

I'll bet you havent even played GW2, have you?

I've been following GW2 extensively and have played PvP competitively over multiple genres for almost a decade, I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to handle GW2 PvP.  Also I'm only PvPing against other people who haven't played GW2 so I don't see the problem.  I actually do hope people that  players like Boon Control who have thoroughly tested GW2 like show up in the BWE and wreck havoc in PvP.  That'll send even more playing running back to Tera's combat system.

Please point out exactly what is wrong with my post? Because there was no flaming of anybody's response, no bashing of other people's games, and I was staying on topic until someone else brought up GW2.  The fact that every Tera thread devolves into a conversation about GW2 is how I got banned.  And yeah I am getting tired of it, as is every other Tera player on this forum.

 

Oh buddy, we were tired of it months ago but now we're in what seems the calm before the storm (BWE) and people have cooled off their TERA bashing a tad.

We were tired of it months ago...

Originally posted by Bigbadwlf

I've been following GW2 extensively and have played PvP competitively over multiple genres for almost a decade, I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to handle GW2 PvP.  Also I'm only PvPing against other people who haven't played GW2 so I don't see the problem.  I actually do hope people that  players like Boon Control who have thoroughly tested GW2 like show up in the BWE and wreck havoc in PvP.  That'll send even more playing running back to Tera's combat system.

Please point out exactly what is wrong with my post? Because there was no flaming of anybody's response, no bashing of other people's games, and I was staying on topic until someone else brought up GW2.  The fact that every Tera thread devolves into a conversation about GW2 is how I got banned.  And yeah I am getting tired of it, as is every other Tera player on this forum.

I got emailed a warning by one of the mods here. I emailed mmorpg.com and told them that I disagreed with the warning and explained why. A manager replied and told me that he agreed with me, removed the warning and said he would talk to that mod. Not saying your situation was the same as mine Bigbadwlf, but if it was unwarranted, biased, or unfair, then I'm on your side.

Why would players like Boon Control "wrecking havoc" in wvw send players running to Tera? Is that not the idea of wvw? To wreck as much havoc as possible, to kill and be killed? If players aren't wrecking havoc this coming BWE I'll be sorely dissapointed.

What is interesting about your comment is that you assume that players who get frustruated with havoc being wrecked in wvw would "p*ssy" out and run crying to "mommy" (Tera). Are those really the kind of players you want? Just a thought.

Originally posted by Charlizzard

I played the beta until level 16 and I decided Tera isn't for me. I don't hate it, i think a lot of people will enjoy it. One of the things I had trouble with was that I thought I was getting a more action oriented combat and what I got was a lot of rooting. I guess this can be changed at level 20 with some sort of inscriptions at the cost of some dps, but I didn't get that far.

And for what it's worth, I don't think GW2 is advertising itself as true action combat, at least I haven't seen this claim.

It's unfortunate that a lot of people are looking for "payback" against GW2, but I suppose that's the nature of forums. I hope that players find enjoyment in any game they choose to play.

GW2 haven't "offically" declare its action combat but sure didn't stop all the fans to declare it. I know i got good amout of time where people say GW2 action combat is better and/or more action combat than Tera. I was like wtf these people serious? And recently i got a e-mail from a mmo site that posted 5 reason why you should play GW2 and one of them was GW2 does away with tab targetting, i was like lol? Gw2 is tab targetting with an added auto target which people already pointed out that it can get annyoing as hell because there is so many targetable objects in the game.

Originally posted by rexzshadow

Originally posted by Charlizzard

I played the beta until level 16 and I decided Tera isn't for me. I don't hate it, i think a lot of people will enjoy it. One of the things I had trouble with was that I thought I was getting a more action oriented combat and what I got was a lot of rooting. I guess this can be changed at level 20 with some sort of inscriptions at the cost of some dps, but I didn't get that far.

And for what it's worth, I don't think GW2 is advertising itself as true action combat, at least I haven't seen this claim.

It's unfortunate that a lot of people are looking for "payback" against GW2, but I suppose that's the nature of forums. I hope that players find enjoyment in any game they choose to play.

GW2 haven't "offically" declare its action combat but sure didn't stop all the fans to declare it. I know i got good amout of time where people say GW2 action combat is better and/or more action combat than Tera. I was like wtf these people serious? And recently i got a e-mail from a mmo site that posted 5 reason why you should play GW2 and one of them was GW2 does away with tab targetting, i was like lol? Gw2 is tab targetting with an added auto target which people already pointed out that it can get annyoing as hell because there is so many targetable objects in the game.

One of the good things about GW2 combat is that you have many different options. You can use/not use tab targetting and you can use/not use (disable even) auto attacking. In many of the GW2 gameplay videos you'll notice that just like Tera, you can attack/use spells without a targeted enemy or any enemies in proxmity.

If you do not like certain features of GW2 combat you are not obligated to use them, however, if you prefer them or if the situation allows for it, you are then free to use them. Interesting how GW2 officially does not say they have "true action combat", as you have pointed out, unlike Tera which seemingly claims to have "true action combat". But, if you notice in their advertisements, they don't say "true action combat", they say "true. action. combat." Not the same thing.

Originally posted by Deron_Barak
AAA quality MMOs take roughly five to six years and about 50-100mil. Do you really think that money will get recouped by box sales? Most games have outside investors as well that are looking for return on their investment. Monthly subs make up the difference between production and sold product, it's included as part of the price. Plus, MMOs are made to improve and expand over time. You might want to keep the people who originally developed the game work on future content. How do you pay for them? I think us on the outside drastically underestimate the amount of work that view on at all times concerning a developers work on a released product.

I whole-heartily agree that you should get your monies worth in anything you pay for. Just realize everything you're paying for. The only game that I might see this not happening in is WoW because of the huge sub #s vs content. Then again, I'm only guessing.

If you want to point to GW2 as an exception it certainly is. If it's as quality of a game as it seems I hope the box sales and store can support it until the next expansion. Without the IP it would not have been possible. Your either be paying more up front, sub or big time CS to have a AAA product. There is no way around this until software tools start automating portions of the overall development.

Got any research to back it up? Though I'm inclined to agree with you as to the time and cost of developing an mmorpg, I'm not sure I can agree that monthly subs are any longer a requirement for profit.

Originally posted by Deron_Barak
My research is common sense. Okay, say your right. Barring you have no known IP to generate interest, how would you get funding, develope and sustain a AAA quality MMO without a sub?

answer: GW1

The Anet model is one which allows for AAA quality mmo games without requiring monthly subs.

WOW's 10.2 million subs x $15 USD for 1 month = $153,000,000 USD

WOW's 10.2 million subs x $15 USD for 12 months = $1,836,000,000 USD

Through WOW's monthly subs alone, Blizzard makes slightly over 150 million in one month, 1.8 billion in one year. With all that money all they could come up with is MoP and a seemingly already dissapointing D3??? According to your numbers, WOW is making a killing while their playerbase justifies paying monthly subs as a way to maintain WOW afloat. The monthly subs are not just paying WOW's bills (they were paid long ago), they are a swindling scheme to keep making sick amounts of money (that is, until the playerbase realizes they are being taken advantage of).

The obvious success story is Blizzard's WOW (for now), the obvious failed storry is EA Games' SWTOR. Both require monthly subs, both ended with complete different results.

I guess only time and sales will tell whether the Anet model works or not. If GW2 is a success then hopefully other companies will follow suit. If GW2 fails, then most likely the playerbase (us) we'll continue to be swindled out of our hard earned cash via monthly subs.

Originally posted by joocheese

One of the good things about GW2 combat is that you have many different options. You can use/not use tab targetting and you can use/not use (disable even) auto attacking. In many of the GW2 gameplay videos you'll notice that just like Tera, you can attack/use spells without a targeted enemy or any enemies in proxmity.

If you do not like certain features of GW2 combat you are not obligated to use them, however, if you prefer them or if the situation allows for it, you are then free to use them. Interesting how GW2 officially does not say they have "true action combat", as you have pointed out, unlike Tera which seemingly claims to have "true action combat". But, if you notice in their advertisements, they don't say "true action combat", they say "true. action. combat." Not the same thing.

I have yet to see anything that isn't all just target based. And no aoes don't count because many game's let you drop aoe where you want. So some video where they don't use tab or auto targetting.

Also i don't see how adding periods change anything, please explain.

Also to the cost thing, AAA game takes 50-100m that means at the avg price of 50 dollar a copy you need to sell at least 1 million copy to break even, probabaly way more because its 50-100m, you also have to add in ad cost, and server cost, and the monthly cost assocated with keeping the server up and staff. That means to break even you need to sell over 1million copy mini, and even than your not breaking even because part of that sale goes to the story if people choice to buy a phyiscal copy. I seriously doubt many game will sell over 1 million without the huge IP hype behind it like guild war or star wars.

Originally posted by rexzshadow

1) I have yet to see anything that isn't all just target based. And no aoes don't count because many game's let you drop aoe where you want. So some video where they don't use tab or auto targetting.

2) Also i don't see how adding periods change anything, please explain.

3) Also to the cost thing, AAA game takes 50-100m that means at the avg price of 50 dollar a copy you need to sell at least 1 million copy to break even, probabaly way more because its 50-100m, you also have to add in ad cost, and server cost, and the monthly cost assocated with keeping the server up and staff. That means to break even you need to sell over 1million copy mini, and even than your not breaking even because part of that sale goes to the story if people choice to buy a phyiscal copy. I seriously doubt many game will sell over 1 million without the huge IP hype behind it like guild war or star wars.

1) In the below link you'll see a video by a reputable gaming reviewer (TotalHailbut) using skills in many different ways, including non target based and in a non tab targetting manner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ttfOuxB6Gc

     09:20 = you can use/disable auto attack

     13:40 = you can swing at nothing (still causing dmg if targets were to be present)

     14:05 = "Savage Leap" (leap forward without targeting, causing dmg to both targeted/non targeted enemies)

     14:45 = non-aoe intended skills do dmg to multiple non targeted enemies if they are in front/in reach of attack

2) Its a common advertisement technique. By saying "True. Action. Combat." Rift is not liable for claiming "true action combat". By placing the periods in between the words, they are in fact disconnecting the words true, action and combat from each other. Just spend a few minutes watching commercials on TV, its all over place!

3) Unfortunately we are not privy to most of the financial records of the gaming companies. Of what we know (or they let on), it does cost millions to develop a AAA game and usually the main bulk of the profit comes from sales; though there are obviously more ways to make money than just selling copies of the games. GW2 appears to be a AAA game and only time will tell whether it will be successful or not. We'll see.

Originally posted by joocheese

 

I got emailed a warning by one of the mods here. I emailed mmorpg.com and told them that I disagreed with the warning and explained why. A manager replied and told me that he agreed with me, removed the warning and said he would talk to that mod. Not saying your situation was the same as mine Bigbadwlf, but if it was unwarranted, biased, or unfair, then I'm on your side.

Why would players like Boon Control "wrecking havoc" in wvw send players running to Tera? Is that not the idea of wvw? To wreck as much havoc as possible, to kill and be killed? If players aren't wrecking havoc this coming BWE I'll be sorely dissapointed.

What is interesting about your comment is that you assume that players who get frustruated with havoc being wrecked in wvw would "p*ssy" out and run crying to "mommy" (Tera). Are those really the kind of players you want? Just a thought.

My gripe is about people calling GW2 true action combat and comparing it to Tera's combat.  I have no problems with GW2's combat engine but the fact that a player can move and attack at the same means jack when they are targeted.  The only players that I want running back to Tera are the people that actually want a combat engine where they can actively move out of the way/block of a person's attack.  GW2 doesn't even the option of intercepting/blocking an attack aimed at an ally player.

A lot of people are backing off from the "GW2 is true action combat" statment, so now it's fine.

I was never given a chance to respond, one day I had an account and the next it's gone.  I could have waited for them to pass judgement on me and undo their mistake or I could have just spent a minute and make a brand new account.  So there you go.

Originally posted by Bigbadwlf

Originally posted by joocheese

 

I got emailed a warning by one of the mods here. I emailed mmorpg.com and told them that I disagreed with the warning and explained why. A manager replied and told me that he agreed with me, removed the warning and said he would talk to that mod. Not saying your situation was the same as mine Bigbadwlf, but if it was unwarranted, biased, or unfair, then I'm on your side.

Why would players like Boon Control "wrecking havoc" in wvw send players running to Tera? Is that not the idea of wvw? To wreck as much havoc as possible, to kill and be killed? If players aren't wrecking havoc this coming BWE I'll be sorely dissapointed.

What is interesting about your comment is that you assume that players who get frustruated with havoc being wrecked in wvw would "p*ssy" out and run crying to "mommy" (Tera). Are those really the kind of players you want? Just a thought.

My gripe is about people calling GW2 true action combat and comparing it to Tera's combat.  I have no problems with GW2's combat engine but the fact that a player can move and attack at the same means jack when they are targeted.  The only players that I want running back to Tera are the people that actually want a combat engine where they can actively move out of the way/block of a person's attack.  GW2 doesn't even the option of intercepting/blocking an attack aimed at an ally player.

A lot of people are backing off from the "GW2 is true action combat" statment, so now it's fine.

I was never given a chance to respond, one day I had an account and the next it's gone.

That's not true.

For example look here: http://youtu.be/P_zn404EpSs

I meant an actual physical targetted attack.  That was an Engineeer knockback attack, WoW and Rift have knockback attacks too, and we're not going to start calling them action combat now.

Okay I looked it up and the Engineer's Overcharged Shot and it seems to be a PB-AoE attack.

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/blog/comments/rofltations-spam-on-recharge-and-other-terrible-ideas-beta-coverage

GW2 has attacks that don't require a target, but so does WoW and Rift.  The issue is with attacks that do target a player.

The debate was about tanking in GW2 and a person was talking about using Bodyblocking as a way to absorb damage intended for other players i.e tanking.  And I was told that wasn't possible in this game.  But if you can bodyblock in this game that really opens up a whole new can of worms about recreating the trinity in GW2.