I know that all the gamers have not been around forever. May not play as many games. And are generally still curious and new to all the gaming world.

So in retrospect i dont blame them for all the silly theories like : People dont like D3 because its not MMO , People dont like D3 because its not carbon copy of D1-2 ... etc

So for their service. And to prevent further confusion , i decided to bring you educated answer...

Here it is:

• Diablo 3 has removed all skill customisation traditional to series, and RPG
  • example http://www.diablowiki.com/images/3/37/Sorceress_Skill_Trees_%28Diablo_II%29.png
• Diablo 3 has removed all stats. Thing that is ABC of RPG. In Diablo 3 case this is also severely limiting number of stats on item drops aswell, which in term also nerfs item collecting fun.
  • http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20070411/Diablo-II-Skills-and-Stats.jpg

• Xbox graphics - No high res textures on 2012 PC game
• No server browser ( just auto connect to random game)

inferno boss runs :P

It's not really an educated answer to be honest, it's basically a form of jumping at conclusions because of overly high expectations. The whole anti-Diablo 3 sentiment reminds me of the Mass Effect/Morrowind fanboy response to Mass Effect 2(or 3)/Oblivion(or Skyrim).

Just my two Septims.

answer = they took the iconic diablo guantlet away and replaced it with the common mouse pointer

Lobo's been riding the hate train all night with this game.  I doubt he'll stop soon. 

Originally posted by jinxter

inferno boss runs :P

Regarding that

Some people said the game is to easy.

Obviously the reason is that beta is set to easy difficulty. There is no question that Blizzard can simply ramp up the hit points on monsters and call it "inferno"

So yes...the game can be hard.

But they will force you to play whole game on easy first to unlock it ... LOL (talking about lame ways to make you play longer)

But player skill wont come from how you cleverly build your character, to become more effective.

But only from how many health potions you chug down.

Again. hard mode for kids...

Originally posted by Alot

It's not really an educated answer to be honest, it's basically a form of jumping at conclusions because of overly high expectations. The whole anti-Diablo 3 sentiment reminds me of the Mass Effect/Morrowind fanboy response to Mass Effect 2(or 3)/Oblivion(or Skyrim).

Just my two Septims.

Good comparisons

Morrowind >>>> Oblivion

ME1 >>>>>>>> ME3

And honestly.

I love ARPGs

Was waiting for D3 like crazy until yesterday (good that i didnt preorder)

When I am indefinetly more satisfied with indie ARPG like Path Of Exile (and play it like crazy) than with high budget friggin Blizzard game. That i honestly stopped playing after 3 hours, out of boredom...

That has to say something ?

Originally posted by Lobotomist

 

So what we have there.

 

D3 is now officially less complex than any MMO or ARPG out there. Even WOW is far more complex.

Every good game goal should be  "easy to learn difficult to master" , if they hope to have any longevity.

While in D3 we have only "easy to learn,  than autopilot"

 

There is simply not much left for user to do - no customisation. Just collecting (now severely simpler items)

Less experimentation, less variety, less thinking = game that gets boring fast

 

On top of that every character is the same.

Every barbarian = your barbarian. (skill wise)

They even look the same...

 

While Diablo 2 because of large variety is still actively played today.

I got bored with D3 even after few hours.

 

Because of above mentioned simplification.

 

--------------

 

Bottom line:

 

Diablo 3 is now simplified and dumbed down  to rank of some Iphone game, or kids game like "Free Realms"

 

 

 

 

That is your answer folks.

 

Ya every barbarian CAN be the same if they try hard enough. You're not going to find another toon with the exact same gear, not going to happen. You're also less likely to find a character with the exact same skill set mid to late game. TONS of experimentation.

More thinking.. since once you enter combat, event or the arena your skill/rune choices are set. Coop is going to be such a blast, teams making skill sets to cover each others weaknesses to counter whatever may be thrown against them.

In diablo 2, all MFers had the same skill/atts, pvpers had the same skill/atts. They all looked the same aswell. That is unless you sucked or weren't serious about the game. 

Also you played a few hours in a tutorial style beta and got bored after that point.. really? I think you got your moneys worth. 

---

Originally posted by Lobotomist

---

Originally posted by Alot
It's not really an educated answer to be honest, it's basically a form of jumping at conclusions because of overly high expectations. The whole anti-Diablo 3 sentiment reminds me of the Mass Effect/Morrowind fanboy response to Mass Effect 2(or 3)/Oblivion(or Skyrim).
Just my two Septims.

---

 
Good comparisons
Morrowind >>>> Oblivion
ME1 >>>>>>>> ME3
 
And honestly.
I love ARPGs
Was waiting for D3 like crazy until yesterday (good that i didnt preorder)
When I am indefinetly more satisfied with indie ARPG like Path Of Exile (and play it like crazy) than with high budget friggin Blizzard game. That i honestly stopped playing after 3 hours, out of boredom...
That has to say something ?
 

---

Naah. 99% of the whining about how those old games were so much more challenging and original and had more depth is balls. The only reason they were challenging is that they needed to waste your time, after all, games had much less funding than nowadays and players would have burned through all of the content in very little time. Just my unpopular opinions that will hopefully make this thread go boom.

As in diablo 2 the game starts in hell

when i mean game i mean the item drops.

Diablo 3 will be similar but they raised the difficulty bar  as they say.

Said that i have the awfull fealing the game will be like wow

but with a diablo theme and fewer skills and costomization

They will offer you the bosses and challenges plus the fat lewt

and also having the option to spend hours or even days to farm and craft for that random attribute that you want

or you can spend money in the auction house : /

Originally posted by Alot

 

---

Originally posted by Lobotomist

---

Originally posted by Alot
It's not really an educated answer to be honest, it's basically a form of jumping at conclusions because of overly high expectations. The whole anti-Diablo 3 sentiment reminds me of the Mass Effect/Morrowind fanboy response to Mass Effect 2(or 3)/Oblivion(or Skyrim).
Just my two Septims.

---

 
Good comparisons
Morrowind >>>> Oblivion
ME1 >>>>>>>> ME3
 
And honestly.
I love ARPGs
Was waiting for D3 like crazy until yesterday (good that i didnt preorder)
When I am indefinetly more satisfied with indie ARPG like Path Of Exile (and play it like crazy) than with high budget friggin Blizzard game. That i honestly stopped playing after 3 hours, out of boredom...
That has to say something ?
 

---

 

Naah. 99% of the whining about how those old games were so much more challenging and original and had more depth is balls. The only reason they were challenging is that they needed to waste your time, after all, games had much less funding than nowadays and players would have burned through all of the content in very little time. Just my unpopular opinions that will hopefully make this thread go boom.

Well said Alot, well said indeed.

@ OP: Why don't we wait and see how the whole rune system works. It has potential as it seems that there will be quite a number of combos available. As for your stats comment.. have you been living under a rock recently? Stat distribution tends to be removed all together and i'm not refering solely to action-rpg's. It gets replaced by generalized terms like melee, magic, archery etc. Hell, even Legend of Grimrock, a tribute to the old school rpg's, has no stat distribution at all. You only get 4 skill points to assign. Does this make the game less fun? Absolutely not. 

All game genres with minor exceptions are being simplified as of lately, it's time to accept this. The game in your signature is far less complex and way more simplified than Morrowind. Does this make it a bad or a mediocre game? 

Lobo, you're a great person i'm sure and you are certainly an avid poster here on the forums, which is why i know you'll do yourself this favor and read the post in the link below.  Be forewarned, it is an absolute mammoth of a read, but it is simply the best explanation of everything that has changed from D2 to D3 that can hopefully draw a close to the silliness that has been going on today all over this board.. Here's hoping you become enlightened.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455085

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by Lobotomist

 

So what we have there.

 

D3 is now officially less complex than any MMO or ARPG out there. Even WOW is far more complex.

Every good game goal should be  "easy to learn difficult to master" , if they hope to have any longevity.

While in D3 we have only "easy to learn,  than autopilot"

 

There is simply not much left for user to do - no customisation. Just collecting (now severely simpler items)

Less experimentation, less variety, less thinking = game that gets boring fast

 

On top of that every character is the same.

Every barbarian = your barbarian. (skill wise)

They even look the same...

 

While Diablo 2 because of large variety is still actively played today.

I got bored with D3 even after few hours.

 

Because of above mentioned simplification.

 

--------------

 

Bottom line:

 

Diablo 3 is now simplified and dumbed down  to rank of some Iphone game, or kids game like "Free Realms"

 

 

 

 

That is your answer folks.

 

Ya every barbarian CAN be the same if they try hard enough. You're not going to find another toon with the exact same gear, not going to happen. You're also less likely to find a character with the exact same skill set mid to late game. TONS of experimentation.

More thinking.. since once you enter combat, event or the arena your skill/rune choices are set. Coop is going to be such a blast, teams making skill sets to cover each others weaknesses to counter whatever may be thrown against them.

In diablo 2, all MFers had the same skill/atts, pvpers had the same skill/atts. They all looked the same aswell. That is unless you sucked or weren't serious about the game. 

Also you played a few hours in a tutorial style beta and got bored after that point.. really? I think you got your moneys worth. 

This would make sense, but the big problem with this theory is that D3 is going to fall in the same pit as WoW did.  There is going to be a set way to build up a character when it comes to skills and runes in order for a Barbarian to be effective against high level monsters.  WoW created the illusion of plenty of ways to customize using talents, but really there were only a couple builds that were any use at all and that made you effective at all in dungeons and the like.

There will only be maybe a couple builds that will be effective for each class in end game, and the rest of the abilities will be obsolete.  Of course this is just my theory looking at Blizzard's track record.  It's plagued WoW since it's launch.  I have no reason to think that D3 will be any different.  And the demo(beta) was pretty bad and boring.

Originally posted by Alot

 

---

Originally posted by Lobotomist

---

Originally posted by Alot
It's not really an educated answer to be honest, it's basically a form of jumping at conclusions because of overly high expectations. The whole anti-Diablo 3 sentiment reminds me of the Mass Effect/Morrowind fanboy response to Mass Effect 2(or 3)/Oblivion(or Skyrim).
Just my two Septims.

---

 
Good comparisons
Morrowind >>>> Oblivion
ME1 >>>>>>>> ME3
 
And honestly.
I love ARPGs
Was waiting for D3 like crazy until yesterday (good that i didnt preorder)
When I am indefinetly more satisfied with indie ARPG like Path Of Exile (and play it like crazy) than with high budget friggin Blizzard game. That i honestly stopped playing after 3 hours, out of boredom...
That has to say something ?
 

---

 

Naah. 99% of the whining about how those old games were so much more challenging and original and had more depth is balls. The only reason they were challenging is that they needed to waste your time, after all, games had much less funding than nowadays and players would have burned through all of the content in very little time. Just my unpopular opinions that will hopefully make this thread go boom.

Ok ok

I dig that ;)

(I am father of two ... so not much time hehe)

Read this, it might interest you : Bite size hardcore Manifesto

http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/2012/01/04/bite-sized-hardcore/

Still

No customisation whatsoever ?

Is this not taking it bit bit too far ?

I'm going to agree with Lobo on this one. The complete lack of skill customization has killed my optimism for this game.

That was part of the challenge with Diablo II, planning your skill tree from Lvl:1 to Lvl:99 often even before you started the first quest. This new system is completely boring; every max level character has exactly the same skill options all the time. Serioulsy... I even changed my skill loadout in the middle of a boss fight to optimize for that specific fight.

PvP is not going to be much better: that monk strafing your wizard's lighting? No problem! swap mid battle to arcane bolts that track his every move and kite him forever with ray of frost.

Part of the fun with the Diablo series was the difficulty, part of the difficulty was character planning and stat management. Both have been removed, so the game has lost a lot of fun.

Originally posted by Shodanas

 

All game genres with minor exceptions are being simplified as of lately, it's time to accept this. The game in your signature is far less complex and way more simplified than Morrowind. Does this make it a bad or a mediocre game? 

 

Why should we as gamers "accept" this.  Sure there are those who like simple to play games.  There are also people who love complex, complicated, games, and gameplay as well.  I'll even throw you a bone and say that maybe the mentality of people is simple = better, and that is why devs and game makers are doing this.  But do you really believe we challenge seeking people should just lay down, and not voice our concerns?  Should we not care about how games aren't fun for us anymore just because the majority of people like it so easy that a 5 year old could do it?  I care, and clearly others like  Lobotomist do as well. 

Sadly, if we all just lay down, and say nothing, then what point is there to game in the first place.  I'm guessing the developers and big studios have crystal balls and know exactly what we want.

Originally posted by Skymourne

Lobo, you're a great person i'm sure and you are certainly an avid poster here on the forums, which is why i know you'll do yourself this favor and read the post in the link below.  Be forewarned, it is an absolute mammoth of a read, but it is simply the best explanation of everything that has changed from D2 to D3 that can hopefully draw a close to the silliness that has been going on today all over this board.. Here's hoping you become enlightened.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455085

 

Is this update with all changes , like removing runes ?

Originally posted by Shodanas

@ OP: Why don't we wait and see how the whole rune system works. It has potential as it seems that there will be quite a number of combos available. As for your stats comment.. have you been living under a rock recently? Stat distribution tends to be removed all together and i'm not refering solely to action-rpg's. It gets replaced by generalized terms like melee, magic, archery etc. Hell, even Legend of Grimrock, a tribute to the old school rpg's, has no stat distribution at all. You only get 4 skill points to assign. Does this make the game less fun? Absolutely not. 

All game genres with minor exceptions are being simplified as of lately, it's time to accept this. The game in your signature is far less complex and way more simplified than Morrowind. Does this make it a bad or a mediocre game? 

 

Grimrock has stats. And stat distribution (at char creation)

And after that you modify them by items and skills.

Its not same as removing stats alltogether...

As for Skyrim

Its indeed less complex than Morrowid. But its more complex than Oblivion.

So the trend is returning to complexity.

As good sales of Grimrock can testify

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Originally posted by Alot

 

Naah. 99% of the whining about how those old games were so much more challenging and original and had more depth is balls. The only reason they were challenging is that they needed to waste your time, after all, games had much less funding than nowadays and players would have burned through all of the content in very little time. Just my unpopular opinions that will hopefully make this thread go boom.

Ok ok

I dig that ;)

(I am father of two ... so not much time hehe)

Read this, it might interest you : Bite size hardcore Manifesto

http://positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/2012/01/04/bite-sized-hardcore/

Still

No customisation whatsoever ?

Is this not taking it bit bit too far ?

Nice link Lobotomist.

Honestly, Alot, I think you may be looking at things a little short-sightedly. If we were talking about an MMO here, I'd agree with you, but we're not. This is diablo, which is basically a single-player game w/ a multi-player lobby. Looking at it as such, I don't think anyone can look back on some of the earlier games (Super Mario, Contra, Sonic, Earth Worm Jim, etc. etc.) and claim that most games are anywhere near as challenging as those have been. There are some (like Demon Souls), but none of the older games really had big time sinks. They were just difficult.

Diablo II, for example, was hard from the start. The gear 'timesink' aspect of it only made the game easier, and was not necessary for the main portion of the game. It was mostly for the PvPers that wanted the best loot in the game. You can still complete nightmare w/ out the best loot, but it is TOUGH (as it should be). Furthermore, normal mode isn't nearly as easy as it is w/ D3. There is a real possibilty of dying, and you have to stay on top of your health to stay alive. D3? You are automatically healed so much that any half-decent player shouldn't ever have to pop a health pot. It's ridiculous.

Honestly, I think the concept of what makes a good game is lost by the new mindset of 'streamlining', and D3 is a perfect example of this. Where's the player choice? Where's the challenge? Where's the customization? Hell, for a game where you are basically fighting evil, when does the damned thing get scary? I know in D2 I felt on-edge about certain areas, because I wasn't sure if I'd survive them. If I did die, it wasn't too difficult usually to get back, but it still felt significant.

Honestly, most of the support I see for D3 seems to hang on the assumption that the game will be much harder once either more of the game is unlocked, or you bump up the difficulties. Hopefully the game drastically changes from the preliminary experience we have now, but in my experience games don't usually work that way. What you see is usually what you're going to get, this close to launch.