Originally posted by micaelmorais

1-graphics are not very good

2-very expensive game

3-catshop in game

4-no mounts in game

5-the game is splited for zones and not open world

ooo I should really tell my wife that GW2 has a catshop.  she loves cats.  

only worthwhile part of this post.  

Originally posted by TheYear1500

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by TheYear1500

Originally posted by raystantz

Originally posted by RizelStar

The only good open world pvp games I can think of are sandboxes...for some odd reason...eh well beats me

Even WoW's open world pvp was fun before it was tarnished with battlegrounds and honor. If you played during Vanilla you'd understand.

It was crap.  The only time open world pvp is any good is when the server is new and eveyone is the same level.  As sone as a server gets some max levels they would just hang out and grif all the lower level's.  That is not pvp, thats crap players that can't handle real pvp so they go around ganking players that can't fight back.   

If you want true open world pvp go play EVE online.  or GW2's WvW (looks very close).  

What creates this problem is bad endgame actually. WHen you see this in an MMO it means the only people who have much to do at endgame are PVPers. This goes back to the point of true sandbox endgame activity vs Themepark or zergfests. The support roles and other options are key, it keeps a lot of people around and a diverse group of: PVEers, PVPers, Support roles, Crafters and roleplayers. Think EVE, think SWG, think UO and other sandbox oriented designs.

 

Thats the reason i said EVE.

YEah I know, I was just reaffirming what you said. :)

Originally posted by EvilGeek

 

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Originally posted by Distopia
 

 

In my experience on forums, the main factor these folks have is against the idea that dev made content supplies a good end-game, this is usually in regard to a want for sandboxy features at endgame, not Raiding as is the common area rebuttals assume. IE City building, community building, etc..Things that all themeparks lack and why they receive so much flak in regard to this subject.

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I would have loved it if the end game gave us some true sand box opportunities, in PvE and PvP. A persistent contested war zone with political systems and real support for RP (Quest/story creation, housing cities etc) would be great, maybe not something we could count out if the demand was there further down the line?

GW lacked those features and the traditional theme park end game but it kept me enthralled for four years solid, I'm not worried about GW2 for now.

Games just can't have everything in them, or all that people want in a game would be combined together in one supergame and everyone would play it. They have to make decisions on what to have and not have. (based on what will hopefully be the most successful/profitable)

UO

What is wrong with evaluating GW2 based on what it is rather than what you want it to be?

A lot of these posts seem to be complaining that it doesn't have feature "X" or that it does have feature "X" but it's not the way that I want it to be. Or they are tainted by nostalgia saying "the most fun I ever had in a game was when..." and then complaining that GW2 isn't that. Geeze.

Look, the game costs $60. That's it. If you want to buy a pirate outfit tack on another $5. No sub fee, ever. It has an incredible amount of content in it. It is solo friendly AND encouraging of group play. It has high replayability because of the DE system. It has a massive, balanced, instanced PvP map with three factions where everyone is on equal footing and "No" you can not go around ganking people 10 levels below OR above you.  It has what appears to be thoughtful combat, especially with regard to PvP. You don't just spam your abilities. For those who haven't seen it, combat is incredibly well highlighted in the following video:

http://www.gameinformer.com/games/guild_wars_2/b/pc/archive/2012/04/13/guild-wars-2-video-preview.aspx

Do yourself a favor and watch that if you haven't, it's the best video I've seen on GW2.

Will you eventually get bored? Probably. Is it going to cause people to rise from the dead on release day? I suspect not.

But is it going to be fun? A hell of a lot of people will get a chance to know shortly.

Originally posted by micaelmorais

1-graphics are not very good

2-very expensive game

3-catshop in game

4-no mounts in game

5-the game is splited for zones and not open world

They sell cats in the game?!?!  The HORROR the HORROR!  Now I'll never play the game.  I hate cats.

Cats are demons...with fur...Oh, and don't get me started on the hairless cats, I think they are satan's meatsuits.

Originally posted by TheYear1500

Originally posted by micaelmorais

1-graphics are not very good

2-very expensive game

3-catshop in game

4-no mounts in game

5-the game is splited for zones and not open world

ooo I should really tell my wife that GW2 has a catshop.  she loves cats.  

only worthwhile part of this post.  

We have a cat shop here in my city.  Needless to say it is about to go F2P.

Originally posted by Dragim

Originally posted by TheYear1500

Originally posted by micaelmorais

1-graphics are not very good

2-very expensive game

3-catshop in game

4-no mounts in game

5-the game is splited for zones and not open world

ooo I should really tell my wife that GW2 has a catshop.  she loves cats.  

only worthwhile part of this post.  

We have a cat shop here in my city.  Needless to say it is about to go F2P.

ya F2P cat shop really is a good idea.  They will make a ton of money on that.  

you could get poeple to buy "upgrades"  telling every one that the Tabby cats cost an extra $5,  but they last all day.  

Here are just a few of the valid arguments against Guild Wars 2 that I see popping up:

1. Class homogenization.

2. Lack of a dedicated healer.

3. Cash shop.

4. Melee seems far more difficult than ranged in PvE.

5. Lack of a trinity turns some people off.

I think ZAM (Gareth "Gazimoff" Harmer) was pretty terrible at explaining their arguments and they worded it in a way to make the detractors of GW2 seem like foolish ninnys.

Originally posted by raystantz

World PVP is fun because its not planned.

I don't have to "queue" for it, and it happens when I'm just out and about, or I can go "looking for it".

Each time its a brand new experience. With every other kind of pvp, its "canned". I already know whats going to happen, I know where all the "hiding spots" are.. I know the strategies. With world pvp, the strategy is never the same.

 

WvW is not it.

Some recent MMOs have explained, (excused), small world size as being conducive for open environment PvP. Rather than compromise on PvE content and world size, GW2 just dedicates a massive region seperate from the PvE world for Open Environment PvP. Add in three factions, Forts, Towers, PvP and PvE objectives and Dynamic Events and you have the best of Open Environment PvP with out "tainting" the rest of the game.

You don't queue for WvW, in a traditional sense. If the player capacity is exceeded, you might have a queue to get into WvW, but you still have the rest of the game to play in if you should ever encounter that issue. The most competative PVP servers in other MMORPGs tend to have queues just to get into the server for the first month or two, sometimes even longer during prime time. This really isn't mush different than that, but you will still have access to the rest of the game if such capacity issues arise.

There are plenty of PvP and PvE objectives in WvW to cater to players who just want to play in the environment and let the occassional PvP encounter happen when it happens.

The WvW zones are massive. Some press have said that each zone is at least as expansive as The Barrens in Vanilla WoW, if not bigger. The size, plethora of content and the fact that each war goes on for two weeks, rather than some much shorter session as seen in something like Alterac Valley in WoW, mean that the entire expanse is open for the player who wants to go out and experience exploration and adventure in a PvP environment that isn't "canned", or where you will always know where all the action will take place or all the "hidding spots" will be.

It's an open environment designed specifically for players who like PvPvE in a massive, open environment.

It's possible you may try it and not like it, but I would think that there is a much greater chance that you will enjoy it, rather than not, based on your description of the kind of play you are looking for. It would be pretty sad if you skipped the game just because you fail to appreciate the potential the game's design actually offers fans of Open Environment PvPvE.

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by fiontar

The Top 5 Arguments Against Guild Wars 2

1. I don’t like PvP!
2. There’s no raiding/PvE endgame!
3. There are no healers/tanks! I can’t play my favorite role!
4. The combat is too hard!
5. There’s no subscription! It’ll lose money, crash, burn and fail!

Great article over at ZAM discussing the five above mentioned arguements against GW2 and why they may not hold up under closer scrutiny. Definitely worth a read and further discussion.

 

 

The article didn't impress me. These areguemtns aren't really valid ones. The article was meant to grab people who are in dount and sell them on why they should play. That's fine and all, but the arguemtns themselves are not real ones but rather strawman. Most of those "arguemtns" aren't really unique to GW2. But rather they are just features of the game. As someone said, they are the reasons to play. Which, is the intent of the article in the 1st place.

These are all arguements against the game that we have seen pretty damn often over the past six months. No matter how many holes are poked in them, they return. I thinks it's appropriate to gather some of them up into one article and provide a succinct, fact based rebuttal.

There are a number of other misconceptions that could be discussed as well. When a game has as many design differences vs. the status quo as GW2 does, continually addressing these things is useful, espescially since we are seeing more and more people who are new to the game starting to take an interest.

If they are up so damn often, could you link 3 threads each?  The only of those I've seen dedicated multiple threads is the PvE endgame, but most often not as an "argument against GW2", but like a question about how the GW2 endgame will look like.

I don't like using the expression "straw man argument", but that is precisely what that whole article is. 

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by raystantz

World PVP is fun because its not planned.

I don't have to "queue" for it, and it happens when I'm just out and about, or I can go "looking for it".

Each time its a brand new experience. With every other kind of pvp, its "canned". I already know whats going to happen, I know where all the "hiding spots" are.. I know the strategies. With world pvp, the strategy is never the same.

 

WvW is not it.

Some recent MMOs have explained, (excused), small world size as being conducive for open environment PvP. Rather than compromise on PvE content and world size, GW2 just dedicates a massive region seperate from the PvE world for Open Environment PvP. Add in three factions, Forts, Towers, PvP and PvE objectives and Dynamic Events and you have the best of Open Environment PvP with out "tainting" the rest of the game.

You don't queue for WvW, in a traditional sense. If the player capacity is exceeded, you might have a queue to get into WvW, but you still have the rest of the game to play in if you should ever encounter that issue. The most competative PVP servers in other MMORPGs tend to have queues just to get into the server for the first month or two, sometimes even longer during prime time. This really isn't mush different than that, but you will still have access to the rest of the game if such capacity issues arise.

There are plenty of PvP and PvE objectives in WvW to cater to players who just want to play in the environment and let the occassional PvP encounter happen when it happens.

The WvW zones are massive. Some press have said that each zone is at least as expansive as The Barrens in Vanilla WoW, if not bigger. The size, plethora of content and the fact that each war goes on for two weeks, rather than some much shorter session as seen in something like Alterac Valley in WoW, mean that the entire expanse is open for the player who wants to go out and experience exploration and adventure in a PvP environment that isn't "canned", or where you will always know where all the action will take place or all the "hidding spots" will be.

It's an open environment designed specifically for players who like PvPvE in a massive, open environment.

It's possible you may try it and not like it, but I would think that there is a much greater chance that you will enjoy it, rather than not, based on your description of the kind of play you are looking for. It would be pretty sad if you skipped the game just because you fail to appreciate the potential the game's design actually offers fans of Open Environment PvPvE.

 

I'm just not crazy about the idea of there being a limited amount of specified PVP areas. I don't like "hey, in order to pvp I have to go to one of  3-4 barren sized zones and hope it isn't overcrowded". Because I like world pvp, I'd always be in those same zones, so the game would get boring quick for me.

I'm not interested in capturing flags, or defending nodes. Maybe a "keep" but not in the traditional sense we normally see. It feels too platonic and less about war, and more about completing the "strategy" to win the match.  I've seen it in every game... once the strategies are figured out, everybody does the same thing every time..

Its the reason I like old UFC over the newer "controlled" stuff. You never knew what to expect, the new UFC.. everybody fights the same, because they know what "Works" within the confines of the rules.. same thing applies here. You don't get surprises because after a while every single battle will work exactly the same once people figure out how to exploit the mechanics to figure out the best way to win.

I do like the idea of showing up at say a colisseum or arena (not instanced) going inside, and finding other people to battle in death matches. Maybe wager money on the fights, and other people can sit in the stands and watch, and also wager money on those fights. That would be super fun.. but alas noone ever does anything "diferent". Its always the same "capture the keep!" or whatever thats been rehashed in every mmo ever.

In all honesty, my only argument against the game has little to nothing to do with the actual game itself.

Its kind of difficult to sum up here in text, and it will anger many..

But you people are ALWAYS wrong about the games you over hype...always.

"its going to do things diffrent" "its going to be better" "revolutionary"  all the pre launch hype leads me to the firm belief that this game will follow in the same path as the other games that had this kind of crowd raving over how great the game was before having played it OR before having played through to endgame.

I could post a laundry list of mmorpg casualties....well most are still running, and making a profit, and are a lot better than when this very same crowd who adorned the game as the holy grail game turned on it and it suddly became the worst game ever, a failure/flop. and the company who ran it became horrible.  You all know the games im talking about i dont need to list them.

Its like every one of these launches is the movie groundhog day...the same thing over and over.  You all over hype the game, insult people who post critism or skeptism as trolls ect...the game launches its the best ever.  You get to endgame then the class balance issues start, then the content issues start..then the future development gripes start...then they hate the game abandon it and forever talk negativly about it and the company who made it

Right about that time everyone hops into the next games hype and repeates the process.

Good luck with the game, i hope its what you all say it is, ill definately be comming by to play if it is.  However at this point, given my skeptical outlook on games with this type of pre-launch following...i just envision myself sitting in pvp queue watching the horrible community chat run by children, checking the forums and looking at all the petty and self intrest serving gripes with threats to leave the game over them...just like all the other games of this type that were over hyped.

Am i the only one who notices this cycle of pre-launch hype to failure?  Am i the only one who sees this hype build then backs away?  I went against my instinct for SWTOR, promised myself i wouldnt buy it since i knew it was going to flop based on the hype...did it anyway.  I think that was my last trip on the hype wagon.  Ill go to the game everyone flames for being diffrent and enjoy the niche community whos tolerable.

I'll give you 10 arguments:  http://www.teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=27150

Originally posted by stayontarget

I'll give you 10 arguments:  http://www.teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=27150

That  is a pretty amazing list, and I can see this game really might frustrate people more than they are expecting.

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Originally posted by BigHatLogan
2.  No Death penalty (death should be scary)

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Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by stayontarget

I'll give you 10 arguments:  http://www.teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=27150

That  is a pretty amazing list, and I can see this game really might frustrate people more than they are expecting.

 

The points made about "point capture" systems in an MMORPG were spot on. I can't say if that applies to GW2 or not but it does to most MMO's that incorporate it.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

If they are up so damn often, could you link 3 threads each?  The only of those I've seen dedicated multiple threads is the PvE endgame, but most often not as an "argument against GW2", but like a question about how the GW2 endgame will look like.

I don't like using the expression "straw man argument", but that is precisely what that whole article is. 

You want someone to dig up 15 threads for you just to prove a point? They are there (all you have to do is look through the GW2 search history), however that is still a lot of pages to go through as there's usually a dozen or so new threads updated daily.

Here's a few on endgame to get you started:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/347402/End-Game.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/347060/Guildwars-2-PVE-and-PVP-Problem.html

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/346762/End-Game.html

- These are all taken from these forums alone. You are aware of the fact that this is not the only MMO forums on the net, and there are others with just as many if not more people posting every day.

Originally posted by fiontar

The Top 5 Arguments Against Guild Wars 2

1. I don’t like PvP!
2. There’s no raiding/PvE endgame!
3. There are no healers/tanks! I can’t play my favorite role!
4. The combat is too hard!
5. There’s no subscription! It’ll lose money, crash, burn and fail!

Great article over at ZAM discussing the five above mentioned arguements against GW2 and why they may not hold up under closer scrutiny. Definitely worth a read and further discussion.

 

 

Since there is not one game you can mention that is worth playing..I guess GW2 is the only one...Next!