The industry has spent a lot of money and done some intensive testing and they have learned  :

1) modern gamers have zero attention span.

2) modern gamers are morons incapable of thinking thier way out of a wet paper sack.

3) modern gamers are lazy and never finish any game or task put in front of them.

Therefore game developers reason :

1) make games that require no focus or concentration!

2) make games that require no intelligence or thought processes!

3) make games that are shallow, small, and uninspired!

I mean to a degree I do agree with them,  the US due to a failed public education system,  as well as, this whole ME generations bullshit has now spawned two back to back generations of brainless idiotic lemmings, with a third generation of even dumber kids on the way.

That being said he study that game developers are ignoring is that the average age of most gamers today is on the rise, in 2011 the average age of gamers is 41.

That means most of us buying and playing these games are from an older generation of gamers. We are the last generation in the US not let down by public education.  We are creative, we are focused, we are free thinkers with drive motivation and we are not only capable we are driven to think outside the box.

Problem is the game developers are not making games for our generation, they are not making games for the people buying them. Instead  they are making them for our kids, and our grandkids when that is not who is actually playng them.

As a result most of us get very bored very easy with every game that comes along.

Originally posted by Sorrow

The industry has spent a lot of money and done some intensive testing and they have learned  :

1) modern gamers have zero attention span.

2) modern gamers are morons incapable of thinking thier way out of a wet paper sack.

3) modern gamers are lazy and never finish any game or task put in front of them.

Therefore game developers reason :

1) make games that require no focus or concentration!

2) make games that require no intelligence or thought processes!

3) make games that are shallow, small, and uninspired!

 

I mean to a degree I do agree with them,  the US due to a failed public education system,  as well as, this whole ME generations bullshit has now spawned two back to back generations of brainless idiotic lemmings, with a third generation of even dumber kids on the way.

That being said he study that game developers are ignoring is that the average age of most gamers today is on the rise, in 2011 the average age of gamers is 41.

That means most of us buying and playing these games are from an older generation of gamers. We are the last generation in the US not let down by public education.  We are creative, we are focused, we are free thinkers with drive motivation and we are not only capable we are driven to think outside the box.

Problem is the game developers are not making games for our generation, they are not making games for the people buying them. Instead  they are making them for our kids, and our grandkids when that is not who is actually playng them.

As a result most of us get very bored very easy with every game that comes along.

I Agree

I have the same problem with most mmos now. I think they are all on easy mode. I get board very fast. I played EQ1 for 4 years. I played SWG for years too. Vanguard for a long time on and off again. I keep trying to play these new mmos and i get board in a month or less. I want to play these game more so I keep them active for some time but never really play them so I cancel them. I want a good Hard mode mmo somthing that is hard to figure out and fun to explore. 

Originally posted by Sorrow

The industry has spent a lot of money and done some intensive testing and they have learned  :

1) modern gamers have zero attention span.

2) modern gamers are morons incapable of thinking thier way out of a wet paper sack.

3) modern gamers are lazy and never finish any game or task put in front of them.

Therefore game developers reason :

1) make games that require no focus or concentration!

2) make games that require no intelligence or thought processes!

3) make games that are shallow, small, and uninspired!

 

I mean to a degree I do agree with them,  the US due to a failed public education system,  as well as, this whole ME generations bullshit has now spawned two back to back generations of brainless idiotic lemmings, with a third generation of even dumber kids on the way.

That being said he study that game developers are ignoring is that the average age of most gamers today is on the rise, in 2011 the average age of gamers is 41.

That means most of us buying and playing these games are from an older generation of gamers. We are the last generation in the US not let down by public education.  We are creative, we are focused, we are free thinkers with drive motivation and we are not only capable we are driven to think outside the box.

Problem is the game developers are not making games for our generation, they are not making games for the people buying them. Instead  they are making them for our kids, and our grandkids when that is not who is actually playng them.

As a result most of us get very bored very easy with every game that comes along.

One of the best posts I have read in my life. 

New generation of players mostly have an IQ of a turnip. They are agressive, not willing and want everything on the silver plate. So, what the hell it makes my work even easier, I` ll make a game where you can log in, pick class, press custom on make char tab cause i CBA to make him as i want him to look and get instantly in PvP. 

After 5 min even i dont know what the hell is going on i start call ppl names and abuse them with the only few words my brain can come around: "LOL, WTF, ZOMG, YOU NOOB, IDIOT, MORON, L2P..."

And the new comunity is rising......

I guess one reason is not the games but the times. Back in the day when EQ style mmorpgs were new, also the experience and feeling was new for players, it was exciting, no huge internet databases to tell you what every instance and every corner of the world has to offer, leveling pace was slow, not only because the leves came slower but because everyone was more or less also learning.

It felt like my character was living in a world, rather than just having a certain class with an avatar running around.

It felt so damn epic as a whole experience and that feeling lasted for a couple of years for me before it started to decline, un spoiled first impressions was a huge factor that planted the excitement into me.

Now, when a new game comes it's more like trying out "just a game" rather than diving into a huge experience with little knowledge of what will happen inside. Back in the day when I played AO or even WoW, it felt fresh and I had little knowledge of what's inside the game, other than how the gameplay works, and it was exciting.

Walking to Thunder Bluff for the first time just felt epic. Now when I buy a new game I already know exactly how every city looks like because the internet and trailers fills my eyes and ears with "hype" that works actually against the game on the long run for spoiling and butchering the first impressions and many epic moments in the game.

Meh this is becoming a long post, I'll just cut it short and say that the times have changed, players are more used to these games, and companies spend too much money in marketing and spoiling stuff about the games rather than trying to surprise me with actual epic feeling first impressions, also the internet filled with databases...

The worlds that were unknown to you very quickly becomes worlds where you know exactly where everything is and what you can do, and it's not so exciting anymore knowing the exact boundaries of the game from day one.

Originally posted by Sorrow

The industry has spent a lot of money and done some intensive testing and they have learned  :

1) modern gamers have zero attention span.

2) modern gamers are morons incapable of thinking thier way out of a wet paper sack.

3) modern gamers are lazy and never finish any game or task put in front of them.

Therefore game developers reason :

1) make games that require no focus or concentration!

2) make games that require no intelligence or thought processes!

3) make games that are shallow, small, and uninspired!

 

I mean to a degree I do agree with them,  the US due to a failed public education system,  as well as, this whole ME generations bullshit has now spawned two back to back generations of brainless idiotic lemmings, with a third generation of even dumber kids on the way.

That being said he study that game developers are ignoring is that the average age of most gamers today is on the rise, in 2011 the average age of gamers is 41.

That means most of us buying and playing these games are from an older generation of gamers. We are the last generation in the US not let down by public education.  We are creative, we are focused, we are free thinkers with drive motivation and we are not only capable we are driven to think outside the box.

Problem is the game developers are not making games for our generation, they are not making games for the people buying them. Instead  they are making them for our kids, and our grandkids when that is not who is actually playng them.

As a result most of us get very bored very easy with every game that comes along.

It's all the wrist slapping, goose stepping hipster Liberal pseudo-humanitarian group's fault. We wouldn't be in such a disastrous state if we didn't have a number of people preaching false virtues of loving everybody, helping everybody, and accepting everybody's decisions. I'm the only person of my generation seemingly that is an exception to all that you've stated. Because public education isn't pushing anybody to succeed, rather than this they baby them and tell them they'll succeed (even though they won't) and patting them on the head and giving them top grades (even though they didn't learn a thing).

As this culture grows, further and further promoting a mindset of dependent thinking, ignorance, and unwillingness to learn all industries are going to decline into the state the gaming industry is in today. I mean look at it. Look at the shit Hollywood has come up with lately. Most of our entertainment creators are either exploiting the fact that the past three generations have been thumb up the bum retarded or they are in fact thumb up the bum retarded themselves.

It would be dangerous to assume one man's experience is the norm for the industry.

Let you know if >I'm< done in six months or so.

In the meantime, enjoy the usual suspects regaling you with their "damn kids" and "uphill both ways through the snow".

The days of sticking to one MMORPG for years and years is essentially gone.  Gone since 2005 I'd say.  From that year onwards, I'd like to say that players have been migrating from one title to another.  From one failed title, to experience the same failure on another.  Sure, some fortunate MMORPGers did find a title to stick with, but let's be honest.  It's nothing like the days of UO, EQ, DAOC, and such titles that are considered "old school."

I mean, how long have we, just on this site alone, have seen threads talking about players moving game to game, unsatisfied?  How many titles have we seen that were supposed to be the next big thing, actually have alot of initial people, yet end up crashing and burning?  Some of them flare out and die, and some wither and live on in a comatose state for a game.

I'll put this warning out also.  Watch out for those titles that are heavily hyped and most heavily defended by the fanbois.  Just watch out.  If the trainwrecks of titles like AOC and WAR aren't warning enough, then by all means, frolic through the minefield in total oblivion.

One problem seems to be the extremely slow rate at which many games are releasing new content.

New games are releasing all the time, to the point that you may as well play a new game than wait for your existing game to expand.

Add to that the in-built feature of all new games, practically everyone is starting from a level playing field.

Who wants to start a game that's been going for 5 years or more, pay for all the expansions and never have a hope of being competitive?

That being said, I played SWG for about 6 years and loved it. I even got used to the NGE over time. Even after all that time there was still so much I hadn't done in the game.

I don't think a themepark has that kind of longevity and decent sandboxes are few and far between.

Originally posted by Sorrow

The industry has spent a lot of money and done some intensive testing and they have learned  :

1) modern gamers have zero attention span.

2) modern gamers are morons incapable of thinking thier way out of a wet paper sack.

3) modern gamers are lazy and never finish any game or task put in front of them.

Therefore game developers reason :

1) make games that require no focus or concentration!

2) make games that require no intelligence or thought processes!

3) make games that are shallow, small, and uninspired!

 

I mean to a degree I do agree with them,  the US due to a failed public education system,  as well as, this whole ME generations bullshit has now spawned two back to back generations of brainless idiotic lemmings, with a third generation of even dumber kids on the way.

That being said he study that game developers are ignoring is that the average age of most gamers today is on the rise, in 2011 the average age of gamers is 41.

That means most of us buying and playing these games are from an older generation of gamers. We are the last generation in the US not let down by public education.  We are creative, we are focused, we are free thinkers with drive motivation and we are not only capable we are driven to think outside the box.

Problem is the game developers are not making games for our generation, they are not making games for the people buying them. Instead  they are making them for our kids, and our grandkids when that is not who is actually playng them.

As a result most of us get very bored very easy with every game that comes along.

A bit more harshly stated than I'd put it, but I agree with your sentiment 100%.

This generation of gamers and, of course, people overall, has been notably anti-intellectual, unmotivated, impatient and entitled. I read or hear the way some people think (or don't think as the case may be) and I really can't believe they're being serious sometimes. I don't mean in terms of having opinions I disagree with, but in terms of demonstrating no critical thinking, or a complete unwillingness to think critically at all. There's an obvious aversion to trying harder. The statement "if at first you don't succeed, try and try again" is an alien concept to them. The attitude I'm seeing so much lately is "if at first you don't succeed, blame someone else, paint yourself as a victim of unfair treatment, and demand it be made easier".

There's a clear movement of willful ignorance and intellectual laziness as well. Just look at message forums such as these. The whole "TL;DR" thing blows my mind. We're on a message forum where discussions take place through writing and reading. Yet, people can't be bothered to read something if it's more than a couple paragraphs long. Really?

What's disturbing to me is how some people actually proudly toss around "tl;dr", as though it's some kind of clever jab at the person they're responding to; a point in their favor. Further still, after admitting that 5 or 6 paragraphs is "too much reading" and so they didn't bother, they proceed to respond anyway. What they respond with is usually a rolling trainwreck of ad hominems, red herrings and strawmen that have nothing to do with the post they're responding to. I've seen people mocked for demonstrating a level of intelligence by, gasp, using "big words". They were actually insulted for having a decent vocabulary. If that isn't anti-intellectual, I don't know what is.

If this anti-intellectual, lazy and entitled generation of people is where developers see all the money being, then yes, I can agree that these are the types of MMOs we're going to see going forward. Least common denominator, and all that. Pretty sad.

Originally posted by jacklo

 

Who wants to start a game that's been going for 5 years or more, pay for all the expansions and never have a hope of being competitive?

I happily would. I know others who would as well. Certainly there are more I don't know who do and would.

Not everyone looks at a MMO that's been out a while and thinks "gee, I'll never be competitive with people who started years before me, so why bother?".

For myself, I think "Holy crap, look at how much stuff this game has to do. This game could keep me entertained for years, easily, if I can get into it". I find the idea of a single MMO keeping me entertained for years appealing. I'm excited to go through what all those people who came before me already did. At the least, I don't feel I should be given a faster or easier ride through it than they had, simply because I chose to start much later than they did.

I've never understood the attitude of people who rate a MMORPG by how quickly they can 'catch up to everyone else'. I play a game to enjoy and experience it for myself. I just can't grasp why someone would pick up a game with years worth of content, only to look beyond all that content and the potential fun they can have with it, because all they care about is being able to hang out with the high level people who've already done it all. Is it about playing the game for one's own entertainment, or merely about "being part of the cool crowd" as soon as possible?

I've tried to see it from that perspective. The conclusion I come to every time is that if my enjoyment of a game depended on how quickly I could get to the end of it, I probably wouldn't want to play it  at all. Similarly, if the value of my experience came from "how far along I am compared to people who started 3 years before me" instead of "how far have I come and how much have I experienced in the 3 months since I started", I would have missed the point of playing in the first place. It's such a self-defeating attitude some people have.

Originally posted by Sorrow

The industry has spent a lot of money and done some intensive testing and they have learned  :

1) modern gamers have zero attention span.

2) modern gamers are morons incapable of thinking thier way out of a wet paper sack.

3) modern gamers are lazy and never finish any game or task put in front of them.

Therefore game developers reason :

1) make games that require no focus or concentration!

2) make games that require no intelligence or thought processes!

3) make games that are shallow, small, and uninspired!

 

I mean to a degree I do agree with them,  the US due to a failed public education system,  as well as, this whole ME generations bullshit has now spawned two back to back generations of brainless idiotic lemmings, with a third generation of even dumber kids on the way.

That being said he study that game developers are ignoring is that the average age of most gamers today is on the rise, in 2011 the average age of gamers is 41.

That means most of us buying and playing these games are from an older generation of gamers. We are the last generation in the US not let down by public education.  We are creative, we are focused, we are free thinkers with drive motivation and we are not only capable we are driven to think outside the box.

Problem is the game developers are not making games for our generation, they are not making games for the people buying them. Instead  they are making them for our kids, and our grandkids when that is not who is actually playng them.

As a result most of us get very bored very easy with every game that comes along.

I can't believe I'm the first one to refute this.

This post is the most self/generation aggrandizing, us vs. them hogwash I've seen on this thread yet.

First off, marketers aren't stupid. They know who they are targetting, and it isn't kids (though some games do target kids). So stop thinking you're so much F***ing better than modern gamers when you are a modern gamer.

Second, although you see modern games as being dumbed down, they are just cleaner. When you look at old school games, they were difficult due to THE WRONG REASONS. EQ was difficult due to having to camp for 12 hours for a spawn? EQ was difficult due to randomness in the combat system? More thought is going into today's games than ever went into most of the MMOs of yesteryear, including those that were grand successes. It has to, they have to be both massively appealing and find a way to differentiate themselves (though they don't put nearly enough emphasis on the latter, IMO). Also, complexity by obtuse mechanics is not good.

Third, MMOs are not failing because of the school system. Of all the random things to blame... Also you don't give nearly enough credit to children, who arguably do not have creativity, focus, or "drive motivation" impacted by a struggling school system.

Depends on who you are, but in general, if you like more open worlds, less instance/railed,  no daily grinds as 'end game', and crafting/harvesting that means something, ....In general yes, its over...

Has been for 5-6 years or so imo.  I could go through a list of games that have fallen into these catagories, and have crafting systems as a token system to say they have it, but aren't worth even doing...Bland harvesting systems, quest rails that basically hold your hand through what they want you to do, small worlds with only 1-2 options of places to play for your level, and only 1-2 starting areas, where older games usually had starting areas and diversity for almost all races...

Now I say this in general, as some games do things better than others, but no one seems to be putting anything out that has quality in most of these areas...Its I can grind these dungeons/quests/scenarios on a 24hr timer, so now I log in today and I do my checklist...oh wow, what fun...Now I log out till I rinse/repeat tomorrow...

Some people like the limits/focus/polish, whatever you want to call it, some don't...  Last MMO that I thought had quality alternative play, and variety was Vanguard, but it has a horrible launch and couldn't recover...If the game would of released in the shape it was 6 months or so after it was released, it probably would of been a different story imo.

It sure seems like it.  Everything interesting about the RPG genre has been stripped out except combat being labeled as "time sinks".  You hit max level in only a few weeks.  Everyone gets great gear for basically showing up.  PvP is meaningless unless you like repitive and predictable instanced battlegrounds that have no impact on the game world.  Crafting has been reduced to side show making goods nobody wants.  Exploration is almost non-existant except for a few indie games.  Interacting with other players has been minimized so that everyone can solo.

All we have left is little combat gimmicks that are fun for a few hours but wear off quickly and pretty graphics which add zero to game play.

It's not suprising that cash shops are becoming popular.  That way, they lure you in, take your money and move you along to the next game as quickly as possible.

Originally posted by dave6660

It sure seems like it.  Everything interesting about the RPG genre has been stripped out except combat being labeled as "time sinks".  You hit max level in only a few weeks.  Everyone gets great gear for basically showing up.  PvP is meaningless unless you like repitive and predictable instanced battlegrounds that have no impact on the game world.  Crafting has been reduced to side show making goods nobody wants.  Exploration is almost non-existant except for a few indie games.  Interacting with other players has been minimized so that everyone can solo.

All we have left is little combat gimmicks that are fun for a few hours but wear off quickly and pretty graphics which add zero to game play.

It's not suprising that cash shops are becoming popular.  That way, they lure you in, take your money and move you along to the next game as quickly as possible.

 

Doesn't GW2 answer some of that?  At least claim to fix pvp, exploration, and fewer instances?

i played swg until the day it was murdered off for TOR.

since then i have struggled to find one that can give me the same satisfaction.

DDO comes closest and vanguard may do the job when it goes f2p

but gw2 is the one i'm looking forward to that i have high hopes for. No shitty raids means pve doesnt become some pointless gear grind that is utterly pointless

Originally posted by Edeus

Originally posted by dave6660

It sure seems like it.  Everything interesting about the RPG genre has been stripped out except combat being labeled as "time sinks".  You hit max level in only a few weeks.  Everyone gets great gear for basically showing up.  PvP is meaningless unless you like repitive and predictable instanced battlegrounds that have no impact on the game world.  Crafting has been reduced to side show making goods nobody wants.  Exploration is almost non-existant except for a few indie games.  Interacting with other players has been minimized so that everyone can solo.

All we have left is little combat gimmicks that are fun for a few hours but wear off quickly and pretty graphics which add zero to game play.

It's not suprising that cash shops are becoming popular.  That way, they lure you in, take your money and move you along to the next game as quickly as possible.

 

Doesn't GW2 answer some of that?  At least claim to fix pvp, exploration, and fewer instances?

Time will tell.  I don't buy into the hype. I want to see it for myself.

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by jacklo

 

Who wants to start a game that's been going for 5 years or more, pay for all the expansions and never have a hope of being competitive?

I happily would. I know others who would as well. Certainly there are more I don't know who do and would.

Not everyone looks at a MMO that's been out a while and thinks "gee, I'll never be competitive with people who started years before me, so why bother?".

For myself, I think "Holy crap, look at how much stuff this game has to do. This game could keep me entertained for years, easily, if I can get into it". I find the idea of a single MMO keeping me entertained for years appealing. I'm excited to go through what all those people who came before me already did. At the least, I don't feel I should be given a faster or easier ride through it than they had, simply because I chose to start much later than they did.

I've never understood the attitude of people who rate a MMORPG by how quickly they can 'catch up to everyone else'. I play a game to enjoy and experience it for myself. I just can't grasp why someone would pick up a game with years worth of content, only to look beyond all that content and the potential fun they can have with it, because all they care about is being able to hang out with the high level people who've already done it all. Is it about playing the game for one's own entertainment, or merely about "being part of the cool crowd" as soon as possible?

I've tried to see it from that perspective. The conclusion I come to every time is that if my enjoyment of a game depended on how quickly I could get to the end of it, I probably wouldn't want to play it  at all. Similarly, if the value of my experience came from "how far along I am compared to people who started 3 years before me" instead of "how far have I come and how much have I experienced in the 3 months since I started", I would have missed the point of playing in the first place. It's such a self-defeating attitude some people have.

 

It would depend on whether or not you have a group of friends joining you, or whether or not the game offers engaging solo content.  It would also depend on a helpful community that you feel like you are a part of, since it IS a "massively multiplayer" game, and whether or not the game allows for you to participate in all aspects of the game from an early level, such as:  Do you need a party to explore some instanced content?  Are there zones and quests that require more than one person to complete?

What you're saying may apply for YOU, but it's all entirely situational depending on the game content.

    I can only speak for myself but I'd say yes....I played EQ1 from 2000-05 and haven't subbed to any game for longer than 6 months since...The honest truth is there are just too many games out there and the majority are free......While I have played a couple of free games for longer than 6 months, it really doesn't count as I only play them for short periods of time...... I just don't think at this time that there is going to be a game out there that is soooo good that I'd be willing to play and pay for it for many years.