As I understand, you'll still have to run dungeons for the max stat gear at 80. You just won't have to run the same one the same path 15+ times for one piece of gear. You don't just hit 80 and instantly receive the best gear when you ding.. there is still work to be done. After that you go and play the game by exploring, doing hidden puzzles, helping a friend in lower level area and finding content you havn't seen yet. Doing Giant 100 people dynamic events... WvWvW.. theres plenty to do (no I did not list everything.. You don't have to click an instant que for dungeon button 10+  times a day so you can get a shiney purple piece.

If you like being on a gear grind treadmill... thats cool. Plenty more of those MMORPGS coming out. You probably havn't been playing MMORPG's for very long. See you in a few years when you finally get bored of gear grinding!

Originally posted by Nickraider

As I understand, you'll still have to run dungeons for the max stat gear at 80. You just won't have to run the same one the same path 15+ times for one piece of gear. You don't just hit 80 and instantly receive the best gear when you ding.. there is still work to be done. After that you go and play the game by exploring, doing hidden puzzles, helping a friend in lower level area and finding content you havn't seen yet. Doing Giant 100 people dynamic events... WvWvW.. theres plenty to do (no I did not list everything.. You don't have to click an instant que for dungeon button 10+  times a day so you can get a shiney purple piece.

If you like being on a gear grind treadmill... thats cool. Plenty more of those MMORPGS coming out. You probably havn't been playing MMORPG's for very long. See you in a few years when you finally get bored of gear grinding!

You can get a max level set very easily through either crafting or karma. The dungeons are for unique apperances.

Originally posted by Requiamer

Originally posted by Stimos8

Yeah understandable but heres the thing, you would be surprised how many people see it the way i do, the majority of Mmo players, just saying that in a few months i dont think there will be many people playing it. And yes there are other games that do this, unfortunately i would hardly call wow one of them... giving out gear and not obtaining it to do the next raid etc... is worse then no gear at all. Because it removes previous raids and contents from being needed/ done. Even if Gw2 is a Pvp based game, it would still get boring to do the same thing over and over hitting the same every time, not balancing out stats etc...

As if you can't get end game gear in WOW? I mean wht did you guys do once you reached it? left the game, or still continue playing it because it was actually fun. You guys are talking as if reaching end game is impossible in WOW? Isn't there like million of player with end game gear in WOW anyway?

I have to agree with this. End game gear is so easy to obtain in WoW that Epic has lost it's meaning completely. Some of my friends still play WoW (I quit a while ago) and we were laughing about it, because you can look at someone in "Epic" gear and still say they have shit gear on. It's become a pointless chase for bigger numbers.

And Stimos8, where exactly are these "majority of MMO players" you mention that think nobody will be playing GW2 after a few months. Link please. I ask because everyone I know that plays MMO's is looking forward to GW2. Mainly because it will be different and NOT have a gear grind. I know for a fact that the majority of my old WoW guild will be playing GW2 when it releases.

Some people prefer the traditional MMORPG model of more or less endless character progression.  This has been accomplished in a number of different ways such as nearly endless levels,  (AC1/EQ1) gear grinds, (WOW/EQ1) advanced power sets, (realm ranks, DAOC) or near infinite skills (EVE) etc.

I would argue that endless character progression (in terms of power, not cosmetics) is perhaps one of the defining characteristics of most MMORPG's, which is why I refer to GW2 as a MMOARPG due to its heavy emphasis on action combat and the fact it promotes a level playing field more like FPS titles generally do.

This alternate model of MMO design (probably made its first appearance in UO actually) appears to be what many players have always wanted (GW2 is the MMO for people who don't really  like playing MMORPG's ) so if its to be expected that it won't appeal to players not looking for this change.

Neither model is better, just two alternatives to MMO design and its possible that a person may like one, both or neither.

There is no difference between end-game gear in WoW and GW2, except for one puts you on a treadmill and the other puts you in an open field.

The main thing people are crying about is not being able to gloat in other peoples faces because they are wearing the latest gear that hardly anyone else has. Or theyre just that dumb they cant see theyre on a treadmill.

OMG! It's outrageous. What was ANET thinking? If all the plebian casuals leave gear-grind MMO's in droves to GW2 because they can have the best gear without grinding like it's a full-time job, who will we gear-grinders have to parade our le3t g3ar in front of in our games???

Sunnova.....!!#$@@!!  Better get over to the GW2 forums and smack this $@%!$@ down to keep the plebs from wandering off the plantation!

Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

Originally posted by Requiamer

Originally posted by Stimos8

Yeah understandable but heres the thing, you would be surprised how many people see it the way i do, the majority of Mmo players, just saying that in a few months i dont think there will be many people playing it. And yes there are other games that do this, unfortunately i would hardly call wow one of them... giving out gear and not obtaining it to do the next raid etc... is worse then no gear at all. Because it removes previous raids and contents from being needed/ done. Even if Gw2 is a Pvp based game, it would still get boring to do the same thing over and over hitting the same every time, not balancing out stats etc...

As if you can't get end game gear in WOW? I mean wht did you guys do once you reached it? left the game, or still continue playing it because it was actually fun. You guys are talking as if reaching end game is impossible in WOW? Isn't there like million of player with end game gear in WOW anyway?

I have to agree with this. End game gear is so easy to obtain in WoW that Epic has lost it's meaning completely. Some of my friends still play WoW (I quit a while ago) and we were laughing about it, because you can look at someone in "Epic" gear and still say they have shit gear on. It's become a pointless chase for bigger numbers.

 

And Stimos8, where exactly are these "majority of MMO players" you mention that think nobody will be playing GW2 after a few months. Link please. I ask because everyone I know that plays MMO's is looking forward to GW2. Mainly because it will be different and NOT have a gear grind. I know for a fact that the majority of my old WoW guild will be playing GW2 when it releases.

GW1 has no gear grind (in fact the end game gear system is identical to GW2) and the player hubs are always packed with players, over 5 years since the last expansion. Why? Because it is B2P, because the PvE grinds give plenty for people to do, and because the PvP is fun.

Not all games can be made to cater for all tastes. 

That is just impossible.

Think mmorpg publishers & devs are starting to see this - finallly!

I myself hmm don't mind some gear grinding and actually liked it in few games ,but well that's not that is 'must have' for me in a game.

GW2 will not have this - just diffrent game concept / design , so imo OP you either need to accept it or go play other mmorpg / game , after all there is plenty of mmorpg's out there - you're doing good researching game before it's release ,but second part of this is making good decisions based on this research.

Worst thing you can do is to get an approach "well I need to have gear grind , GW2 seem to not have it ,but I buy it anyway and then bitch and moan 3 weeks after release that this game sucks cause there is 'nothing to do at max level'.

You will just make GW2 community experience worse for some people but FIRST AND FOREMOST you will hurt YOURSELF wasting time & money on game that you knew before it was lacking fundamental feature you liked.

Originally posted by Stimos8

Alright, well as the title sais and whats already known is that everyone will have virtually the same gear at endgame, however they will be able to change the appearance etc...

 

Well heres the problem, alot of people, like myself love the gear grinds at endgame, infact thats what i mainly play MMORPG's for, definitely not for the leveling... So what will endgame be like? how will you get rewarded, competition for the most gold or? what singles out each player, i mean its a "semi-action" based combat game, so its not going to be solely based on skill, like Tera. Personally because of this fact and a few others i will most likely not bother playing this game, and move onto a more interesting game such as Tera.

 

So heres the thing, will we just level up and be bored? what happens at endgame? i can only see the same gear slightly benefitting pvp, but having absolutely no advance on Pve, i mean whats the point if you dont get rewarded? every player being similar makes no sence, people play Mmorpg's because of that main difference you can gain against other players, because of how it feels to win that awesome weapon etc....

 

Open to views here, if anyone has an other opinion, feel free to say, attempt to convince. Because, at the way the game is looking now, its going to need to be one hell of an arguement.

Pardon me, not meant to sound offensive, but i would rather not see your kind in GW2. Guys like you made up thing like GS, Tier-based raiding and stuff that chased me out of WoW back in the days.

EDIT: people used to play MMORPGs for social activities, for cooperative RPG experience (like PnP RPGs), goofing out around towns etc... then came the days when elitists started to wander around towns just to show their shining armor to others to feed their ego.

Originally posted by Stimos8

I absolutely 100% agree with everything EduardoASG just said. way over hyped, mediocre game at best, not a bad option for the casual, once in a while players, no innovation, nothing new, outdated graphics/ gameplay and lack of content. End of discussion.

 

Originally posted by Stimos8

Ok, to be perfectly honest guild wars 2 as a whole seems like a pretty bad game, from the videos i have seen, it just seems to be slow and bulky especially pvp, and thats not what people are wanting, there wanting smooth interactive environments, also the fact that its not really planning on having much pve endgame is a big turn off. Having played the TERA closed beta i can just about safely say that the TERA will be a far better game as a whole, and its being release 1 month before this game. it has far better combat, content, graphics, interaction etc...

Not to mention the fact that they wont be able to update content as quickly as other games, due to it being B2P not P2P.

So yeah, without a doubt disagree with this post, and to prove it to you wait abit over a month untill the games released, and see for yourself.

 

The OP is a hater of GW2, you can defend GW2 till the cows come home but he wont change his opinion, his mind is made up, so I'm not entirely sure why he needs to start a thread on a subject that he has no interest in.  I do but it involves bridges.

Originally posted by romanator0

If you want a gear grind then this isn't the game for you. The easiest thing right now is to admit that and go look for another game that does have it. May I suggest WoW?

A succinct and accurate answer.

Originally posted by evilastro

GW1 has no gear grind (in fact the end game gear system is identical to GW2) and the player hubs are always packed with players, over 5 years since the last expansion. Why? Because it is B2P, because the PvE grinds give plenty for people to do, and because the PvP is fun.

This ^.

In fact I just logged back into GW1 again yesterday (GW2 made me curious about the first game again), and even though I hadn't played in years, the game was still very healthy population wise, I was able to find a guild & alliance very easily, and people were very willing to help me with getting my HoM achievements in preparation for GW2.

In just a day I went from 0 achievements to 10, and closing in on another 5. The rest won't be so easy, but I was very impressed that people were willing to help me that much. I think people are also understimating the cosmetic grind a bit. There are a lot of people that want that really cool title, or that really cool armor, etc. and are willing to either farm for it, or go through the harder content to get enough items to make the cooler stuff. Some of it is epeen, but some of it is just awesome looking. It's the difference between looking like a scrub in a blue cloak, and looking like an avatar of death & decay.

For those that don't care, it's not essential, but it does look awesome running into PvP looking like grenth's badass.

Originally posted by Stimos8

Alright, well as the title sais and whats already known is that everyone will have virtually the same gear at endgame, however they will be able to change the appearance etc...

 

Well heres the problem, alot of people, like myself love the gear grinds at endgame, infact thats what i mainly play MMORPG's for, definitely not for the leveling... So what will endgame be like? how will you get rewarded, competition for the most gold or? what singles out each player, i mean its a "semi-action" based combat game, so its not going to be solely based on skill, like Tera. Personally because of this fact and a few others i will most likely not bother playing this game, and move onto a more interesting game such as Tera.

 here is the answer: don't play, i actually HATE gear grind as only meaning to complete stuff. you grind to get better gear so you can kill the next boss, which won't be able to do without that gear. skill? not needed, you have that gear!

So heres the thing, will we just level up and be bored? what happens at endgame? i can only see the same gear slightly benefitting pvp, but having absolutely no advance on Pve, i mean whats the point if you dont get rewarded? every player being similar makes no sence, people play Mmorpg's because of that main difference you can gain against other players, because of how it feels to win that awesome weapon etc....

as said above, if "ITAMS!" are your only reward... well, that's your prob :)

people do NOT play mmos to grind more gear, they play em because they are fun. this "uh, i have item lvl over 9000!" is just not what gaming came from, that's what gaming became. and it sucks. gaming worked for ages before it even gave items or stats on items in RPGs 

Open to views here, if anyone has an other opinion, feel free to say, attempt to convince. Because, at the way the game is looking now, its going to need to be one hell of an arguement.

as said above, since wow i actually wait for a game that has some decent pvp again, and guild wars 2 might have enough of DAoC to have some devent pvp. we will find out.

 

ps: diablo 3 might be more your game :) not every game is ment for everyone.

Originally posted by Stimos8

Yeah understandable but heres the thing, you would be surprised how many people see it the way i do, the majority of Mmo players, just saying that in a few months i dont think there will be many people playing it. And yes there are other games that do this, unfortunately i would hardly call wow one of them... giving out gear and not obtaining it to do the next raid etc... is worse then no gear at all. Because it removes previous raids and contents from being needed/ done. Even if Gw2 is a Pvp based game, it would still get boring to do the same thing over and over hitting the same every time, not balancing out stats etc...

And it doesnt get boring raiding for gear over and over again? Just accept your a carrot on a stick player and move on and enjoy Terra as you intend to do.  You dont like GW2 your opinion is respected and accepted, now respect other players who want to play GW2, you won't change my mind I've seen enough to make my own mind up.

Originally posted by Stimos8

Alright, well as the title sais and whats already known is that everyone will have virtually the same gear at endgame, however they will be able to change the appearance etc...

 

Well heres the problem, alot of people, like myself love the gear grinds at endgame, infact thats what i mainly play MMORPG's for, definitely not for the leveling... So what will endgame be like? how will you get rewarded, competition for the most gold or? what singles out each player, i mean its a "semi-action" based combat game, so its not going to be solely based on skill, like Tera. Personally because of this fact and a few others i will most likely not bother playing this game, and move onto a more interesting game such as Tera.

 

So heres the thing, will we just level up and be bored? what happens at endgame? i can only see the same gear slightly benefitting pvp, but having absolutely no advance on Pve, i mean whats the point if you dont get rewarded? every player being similar makes no sence, people play Mmorpg's because of that main difference you can gain against other players, because of how it feels to win that awesome weapon etc....

 

Open to views here, if anyone has an other opinion, feel free to say, attempt to convince. Because, at the way the game is looking now, its going to need to be one hell of an arguement.

While this may be true for you in fact it is very untrue for the majority of people who play MMOs, Less then 10% of most games populations participate in Raiding. The large majority of players are in these games for PVP and Questing. If your in the 10% or less who cannot play a game without someone leading you around witha  carrot like a donkey without a brain tehn Gw2 probably isnt for you.

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by Stimos8

Alright, well as the title sais and whats already known is that everyone will have virtually the same gear at endgame, however they will be able to change the appearance etc...

 

Well heres the problem, alot of people, like myself love the gear grinds at endgame, infact thats what i mainly play MMORPG's for, definitely not for the leveling... So what will endgame be like? how will you get rewarded, competition for the most gold or? what singles out each player, i mean its a "semi-action" based combat game, so its not going to be solely based on skill, like Tera. Personally because of this fact and a few others i will most likely not bother playing this game, and move onto a more interesting game such as Tera.

 

So heres the thing, will we just level up and be bored? what happens at endgame? i can only see the same gear slightly benefitting pvp, but having absolutely no advance on Pve, i mean whats the point if you dont get rewarded? every player being similar makes no sence, people play Mmorpg's because of that main difference you can gain against other players, because of how it feels to win that awesome weapon etc....

 

Open to views here, if anyone has an other opinion, feel free to say, attempt to convince. Because, at the way the game is looking now, its going to need to be one hell of an arguement.

Pardon me, not meant to sound offensive, but i would rather not see your kind in GW2. Guys like you made up thing like GS, Tier-based raiding and stuff that chased me out of WoW back in the days.

EDIT: people used to play MMORPGs for social activities, for cooperative RPG experience (like PnP RPGs), goofing out around towns etc... then came the days when elitists started to wander around towns just to show their shining armor to others to feed their ego.

I agree 100% dzoni, i left WoW for the exact same reason, GearScore and the forced to play like others want mentality just soured me from wanting to play. Add to that raiding that felt like a job, and the complete asshatery of the majority of the community just made me quit and never look back.

Originally posted by Stimos8

Alright, well as the title sais and whats already known is that everyone will have virtually the same gear at endgame, however they will be able to change the appearance etc...

 

Well heres the problem, alot of people, like myself love the gear grinds at endgame, infact thats what i mainly play MMORPG's for, definitely not for the leveling... So what will endgame be like? how will you get rewarded, competition for the most gold or? what singles out each player, i mean its a "semi-action" based combat game, so its not going to be solely based on skill, like Tera. Personally because of this fact and a few others i will most likely not bother playing this game, and move onto a more interesting game such as Tera.

 

So heres the thing, will we just level up and be bored? what happens at endgame? i can only see the same gear slightly benefitting pvp, but having absolutely no advance on Pve, i mean whats the point if you dont get rewarded? every player being similar makes no sence, people play Mmorpg's because of that main difference you can gain against other players, because of how it feels to win that awesome weapon etc....

 

Open to views here, if anyone has an other opinion, feel free to say, attempt to convince. Because, at the way the game is looking now, its going to need to be one hell of an arguement.

"A more interesting game like Tera" is subjective. I find NOTHING interesting about Tera beyond the combat and thats not enough to make me think I'll play it longer than it takes Diablo3 to come out, if I even get it (I likely will but wont play past the first month).

Another flaw of your post is saying Tera will be soley based on skill. No gear grind game will ever be based soley on skill.

As far as what happens end game in GW2? Well, personally I like the looks of gear more than I care about the stats anyway. So long as there is challenging content what does it matter what the stat numbers show?  Even in WOW (and Tera will be the same) you LOOK at someones gear and say "wow they did xxx instance/raid, AWESOME". You dont say "SWEET look at thier stats!". The ONLY time you look at stats is when trying to fine tune your character for either PvP or PvE. In which case you generally compare yourself to others at the same tier of the conent as you are.

You want the stats to go up I get it. But I would argue it doesnt matter if your stats are the same or diffrent so long as the content keeps flowing and is challenging. But a person wants what they want. In Tera you will get extra stats and look awesome but dont try to fool yourself to think its pure skill in PvP. In GW2 you will not get extra stats and look awesome and it WILL be more skill based with everyone on a level playing field. Dodging is in both game and both accomplish the same thing, negating damage.

Originally posted by Stimos8

Same gear at endgame a bad thing?

Answer: I really don't know. But I will try it and see for myself if I like it.

All MMOs I have played so far had that gear grind endgame. Have been there, had my fun with it but it became boring. But why not try something new ? I at least will try it and see if it is fun for me. You can do this also. In case you don't want to,the majority of all MMOs got the gear grind you are looking for.

More diversity is a great thing and much to rare in the current MMO market.

Originally posted by Voiidiin

Originally posted by dzoni87

Originally posted by Stimos8

Alright, well as the title sais and whats already known is that everyone will have virtually the same gear at endgame, however they will be able to change the appearance etc...

 

Well heres the problem, alot of people, like myself love the gear grinds at endgame, infact thats what i mainly play MMORPG's for, definitely not for the leveling... So what will endgame be like? how will you get rewarded, competition for the most gold or? what singles out each player, i mean its a "semi-action" based combat game, so its not going to be solely based on skill, like Tera. Personally because of this fact and a few others i will most likely not bother playing this game, and move onto a more interesting game such as Tera.

 

So heres the thing, will we just level up and be bored? what happens at endgame? i can only see the same gear slightly benefitting pvp, but having absolutely no advance on Pve, i mean whats the point if you dont get rewarded? every player being similar makes no sence, people play Mmorpg's because of that main difference you can gain against other players, because of how it feels to win that awesome weapon etc....

 

Open to views here, if anyone has an other opinion, feel free to say, attempt to convince. Because, at the way the game is looking now, its going to need to be one hell of an arguement.

Pardon me, not meant to sound offensive, but i would rather not see your kind in GW2. Guys like you made up thing like GS, Tier-based raiding and stuff that chased me out of WoW back in the days.

EDIT: people used to play MMORPGs for social activities, for cooperative RPG experience (like PnP RPGs), goofing out around towns etc... then came the days when elitists started to wander around towns just to show their shining armor to others to feed their ego.

I agree 100% dzoni, i left WoW for the exact same reason, GearScore and the forced to play like others want mentality just soured me from wanting to play. Add to that raiding that felt like a job, and the complete asshatery of the majority of the community just made me quit and never look back.

I underlined this on purpose of my another conclusion. The top of tragedy that asshatery of community is, that in one point some of guilds started to have requirements like [Lich King slain] achievement, minimum 6.9k GS etc etc.

Endgame Boss slain, an requirement for joining a Guild. Yes. For a Guild. Asshatery in its brightest light.

Originally posted by Stimos8

 what singles out each player, i mean its a "semi-action" based combat game, so its not going to be solely based on skill, like Tera. .

This is the part of the post that made me laugh.  I'm surprised nobody else commented on this.

Since when has action been the prerequisite for skill?

I guess I missed the kung fu portion of all the professional chess matches. :D  They should really advertise the action-packed nature of those more.

... or are you suggesting Tera is more skillful than chess? :x