Trending Games | Moonrise | Elder Scrolls Online | Pirate101 | EverQuest

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,900,554 Users Online:0
Games:751  Posts:6,269,914
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why is everyone so obsessed with "balance" and "fairness"?

8 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Search
144 posts found
  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

4/15/12 6:26:22 PM#81
Originally posted by gaeanprayer

It's funny, a lot of the people in this thread complaining that it doesn't have to be fair, are the same ones ranting and raving at the idea of weapons and such getting added to a cash shop.

Can't have it both ways, people.

Thats because you understand "it doesn't have to be fair" the way you want, not the way those people understand it and write about it.

Flame on!

:)

 

  Paradigm68

Novice Member

Joined: 1/24/11
Posts: 880

4/15/12 8:28:31 PM#82
Originally posted by Latella

I thought mmoRPG´s were pretty much online RPG´s and as such, half the fun was that  every soul in them should be different, unique, chaotic, unbalanced and sport a different growth and powers and obtained different gear and abilities depending on how they chose to interact and partecipate within the world and the story.

So why is everyone obsessed about balance, fairness, other classes having cool spells or some guy obtaining the sword of doom when they do not?

Why are mmorpgs being turned in some kind of medieval fps?

I thought rpgs were about the story, the interactions and  not the pew pew and how that n00b warrior does moar damage with his e-peen strike than the mage with his flaming ballz of domination.

*shrug*

So when you play monopoly you don't care if the other player takes as much money as they want?

  laokoko

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1931

4/15/12 9:03:26 PM#83

It depend on the game.  The problem to me is too much emphasize on raids, arena etc.

I know when I played certain class, I simply can't find a group, because my class is underpower compair to other, so other class will always get pick over me.

Same with pvp.  Back when wow arena is unbalanced, all the top pvp is the same class.  Rogue was underpowered at the time, I can't get a high arena ratting with rogue.

Those kind of game have to be balanced, because dungeons/raids/arena is 100% of it's content. 

You need to break from the mold of the game play to make unbalanced class.  The game play itself determine if it can work or not. 

  Magnetia

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 972

Any fool can know. The point is to understand.

4/15/12 9:25:43 PM#84

Because on a level playing field skill becomes your greatest asset.

Imagine chess had gear for pieces. Someone that had played chess for years had a completed set and you wanted to join in. You can't because the field is not balanced. The beauty in the game lies in the fact that each side has the same strength but it is the player that decides how to use them.

Would you want your fighting games (the most pure form of pvp) to have levels and gear? No because you want your SKILL to matter. 

Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

4/15/12 9:44:06 PM#85
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Latella
Originally posted by dave6660

MMORPG's seem to be striving for equal result instead of equal opportunity.  That's where I see the problem.

I think this is exactly where the problem is at.

 

Nicely put dave6660

I concur.  :)

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  Dragonantis

Novice Member

Joined: 12/16/10
Posts: 970

4/15/12 9:55:55 PM#86

"Balance" and "Fairness" are the screams of the average MMO gamer who usually doesnt progress well in an MMO.

  Magnetia

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 972

Any fool can know. The point is to understand.

4/15/12 10:12:58 PM#87
Originally posted by Dragonantis

"Balance" and "Fairness" are the screams of the average MMO gamer who usually doesnt progress well in an MMO.

You would be terrible at chess or card games. There's no gear to grind there. 

Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  arcanist

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/10
Posts: 163

4/16/12 12:48:30 AM#88

i think the best solution would be to make group tactics, enviroment and other factors as important as character ability and player skill.

So a mage might be able to throw out ten damage per second. but a warrior with a thousand hitpoint would be able to run up to the mage and kill him every single time. why not have your own warrior distract the enemy warrior till the mage kills him.

and if an enemy archer is attacking the mage, why not have the mage hide behind a large rock timing his attacks to when the archer is reloading.

and terrain could be done in a number of other ways. Mud and swamp would slow heavy armour allowing light armour and cloth to attack [agincourt wasnt just bows you know]. or the heavy armour could wait on hill with mages and archers and force the enemy to come or have them slowly be picked off.

The main thing thats needed for this to work would be a ton of possible options for every class combination. That way there would be less dead ends.

of course then groups that can't plan or coordinate would whine that its not fair. but its still a lot closer to fair than having one class be able to kill another class with zero risk.

  Adamantine

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3345

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

4/16/12 2:08:45 AM#89

I dunno about "fairness", but game balance is of course necessary to assert people actually consider using all possibilities you offer them.

For example if you have one of these skillbased systems many people here are fan of, its very likely some skills are better than others. While small differences might be tolerated, if balance gets too much out of hand, people will focus into the more powerful skills - and the presence of the other skills will be simply superflous.

There are of course always these roleplayers who dont care if a game is balanced and rather want a funny or something character, even if its underpowered. But those are quite frankly a minority. The average player of course /ragequit-s if you underpower them too much compared to other players.

  User Deleted
4/16/12 7:36:35 AM#90



Originally posted by Latella
I thought mmoRPG´s were pretty much online RPG´s and as such, half the fun was that  every soul in them should be different, unique, chaotic, unbalanced and sport a different growth and powers and obtained different gear and abilities depending on how they chose to interact and partecipate within the world and the story.
So why is everyone obsessed about balance, fairness, other classes having cool spells or some guy obtaining the sword of doom when they do not?
Why are mmorpgs being turned in some kind of medieval fps?
I thought rpgs were about the story, the interactions and  not the pew pew and how that n00b warrior does moar damage with his e-peen strike than the mage with his flaming ballz of domination.
*shrug*


 
Because in today's mmorpg design there are no real ups and downs to a single class. One class does not excel at anything really. It's more like one scissor and 10 paper classes. Since the usual MMO does not provide deep gameplay mechanics they all end ups as "Damage Dealer" either DOT, Burst, Sustained - damage. Or Healer or Tank.

What's the last big MMO where you could lay out multiple persistent traps to avoid whole group fights and cripple them? Build / cast a barrier where enemies could not pass?

Such clear meaningful distinctions of utility got erased from modern MMO design. Now they are only short time "spamable" skills. Lure enemies away, pick locks? Help identifying magical gear?

How about a more free approach of class design? Make a suppot character and mix it with 5 others?


And look at the typical themepark Boss designs (raid). Enrage Timers. Oh to low DPS because you took two healers instead of one? You took the class x with lower dps instead of y?

All we do is damage/healing/Tanking with different flavors today, so what's the reason why 3 out of 4 should suck at it?


Just take the elemental system of older mmos, Frost mages sucked at ice snow golem's den. But they really shined at desert's reach full of fire elementals. The game both had those two places at endgame. It was a meaningful decision to go Frost or fire mage. (No respec!).


Or just take "Ranged" classes, all monsters either reset, teleport to your high ground or go into exploit if they can not reach you. What's the purpose of being "Ranged" when you just start of in range. Can't use the terrain to your advantage etc.


Lack of distinction
Lack of deep gameplay mechanics
Lack of freedom in Class / Gear choices
Lack in World design
Lack of proper deep Combat mechanics

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5693

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

4/16/12 7:47:59 AM#91

if the game is faction vs faction then i dont like when developers use "balance" word as a reason to mirror every class between faction. 2 different factions most of the time mean 2 different ways of life, 2 different groups of people that train their own ways. When you, as a developer, take faction A and mirror every class to the faction B classes, why not just remove the factions?

I know taht not mirroring classes can have sometimes population imbalance between factions, but hey... hasnt anyone noticed how umbalanced it gets even with identical class mirroring.

Thats the only thing i will always dislike about balance. Combat is never about fairness and balance specially when it comes to faction vs factions.

Maybe jedi went to the same schools as sith? or alliance were once training partners to the horde? that they learned the same things but only changed the way to cast them lol

BOO to class mirroring

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2779

4/16/12 7:49:26 AM#92

Because if someone loses, it obviously wasn't a fair fight.

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  therain93

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2048

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

4/16/12 7:52:03 AM#93
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Starpower

You are asking why people in general are jealous or envious? That's a pretty big question. How much time do you have

It's a big question, but the answer is pretty short, "Because it's more fun."

Players like interesting decisions.

Balance creates interesting decisions.

No and yes.

I don't think most (mmo) players like making decisions in general.  Many seem to indicate that they want to be the tank mage that wears the best armor and can cast the most powerful spells with minimal or no downtime.  They want to change classes and powers/skills by simply blinking (if that) and be able to solo everything.

Good game balance creates situations where you must make a decision -- and it creates replayability because you want to go back and try a different build/make a different set of decisions.  Now, one could argue that (historically) in an mmo it can be painful to level up another character to try out different builds, but I think we all see that power-leveling is largely a non-issue in most games today.  Therefore, one would expect a shallow leveling curve would empower a developer to create classes that are very different. 

This is one of the things I like about City of Heroes -- diverse classes with some unique mechanics and a relatively short but diverse set of paths to level up.  The only downside to CoH now is that the "incarnate" levels seem to obliterate the uniqueness in favor of layering on other archtypes' powers on top of your own.

  dave6660

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2350

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

4/16/12 7:53:55 AM#94
Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Because if someone loses, it obviously wasn't a fair fight.

When I lose, the other guy cheated.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  therain93

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2048

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

4/16/12 7:54:48 AM#95
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Latella
Originally posted by dave6660

MMORPG's seem to be striving for equal result instead of equal opportunity.  That's where I see the problem.

I think this is exactly where the problem is at.

 

Nicely put dave6660

I concur.  :)

That is a very astute and succinctly-put observation Dave.

  xposeidon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 393

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

4/16/12 8:31:30 AM#96

Luckily there's a game coming out for all of us in a few months ;)

Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.

  LeegOfChldrn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 369

4/16/12 9:16:09 AM#97

The only thing I have to say is that BALANCE is not an opinion, it is a fact.

The opinion is just what people think without the facts, and that isn't balance, it's what people think (without evidence) what is balance.

Once again, BALANCE IS NOT AN OPINION, it is complex mathematics.

 

For example... let's take an imaginary game with 3 classes, a Warrior, a Cleric, and a Paladin (a mix of both).

Warriors do 10.0 damage, have 100 hp, and have no spells.

Clerics do 5.0 damage, have 50 hp, and have a heal spell that heals 50 hp per cast.

Paladins do 7.5 damage, have 75 hp, and their heal spell heals for 25 hp per cast.

 

It's all balanced right? Probably not. A simple change of, say, attack speed, and balance can drastically change. Typically slower attack speed but higher damage is favorable because players run away from one another. If you can only ever hit your opponent one time every 3 seconds of running, then a 3.0speed halberd that does 400% damage is far superior than a 0.5speed dagger that do 50% damage.

Unfortunately, even if the above #'s were true and there was balance, most likely the Paladin class would be significantly more powerful, because although their hp, damage, and spells seem balanced, their instant-heal-all or full-invulnerability spell makes them win every single time.

The cleric will most likely never be able to win because they can't do any damage. Although they can out heal any damage done to them, they will lose mana and eventually have none left. If facing the warrior, they may be able to win a far of attrition. The paladin, however, will hands down beat the cleric because he does significant damage, can heal the non-existent damage of the cleric, and probably wont even run out of mana because he has more hp. This makes the Paladin far superior to the Cleric.

Now the warrior? He has more hp and does more damage, but that Paladin, once again, will still win. The healing is exactly why, as the warrior can't heal.

The paladin's REAL stats would be something clsoer to 75 hp + 25 hp * (Mana / Cost). As long as the Paladin can heal more than once without running out of mana, he has significantly more hp than the warrior. If the Paladin can heal more than 2 times in the fight, he will win hands down.

The Cleric has 50hp per heal, and 50 hp. The Paladin has 75hp an 25 hp, making both have an effective hp of 100. Yet the Paladin does more damage, despite their effective hp being identical. Thus the Paladin is superior once again.

 

BALANCE is about mathematics and to a lesser extent physics (chasing enemies and speed of weapon or range of attack). It's not an opinion, it's a fact. The physics are still fact, but that is what everyone argues about when it comes to their opinion, usually void of the actual math.

 

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

4/16/12 10:33:35 AM#98
Originally posted by therain93

No and yes.

I don't think most (mmo) players like making decisions in general.  Many seem to indicate that they want to be the tank mage that wears the best armor and can cast the most powerful spells with minimal or no downtime.  They want to change classes and powers/skills by simply blinking (if that) and be able to solo everything.

Good game balance creates situations where you must make a decision -- and it creates replayability because you want to go back and try a different build/make a different set of decisions.  Now, one could argue that (historically) in an mmo it can be painful to level up another character to try out different builds, but I think we all see that power-leveling is largely a non-issue in most games today.  Therefore, one would expect a shallow leveling curve would empower a developer to create classes that are very different. 

This is one of the things I like about City of Heroes -- diverse classes with some unique mechanics and a relatively short but diverse set of paths to level up.  The only downside to CoH now is that the "incarnate" levels seem to obliterate the uniqueness in favor of layering on other archtypes' powers on top of your own.

If they didn't like decisions, they'd be watching TV or a movie.

And if they have terrible ideas about balance (such as wanting to be a tank mage) then those ideas are easy to ignore (and it's rare that a game makes that mistake; even bad games avoid it.)

But yeah I agree that MMORPGs should strive for as much playstyle asymmetry as they have the capability to balance, since both aspects (balance and asymmetry) are how developers cram the most interesting decisions into a game.

  User Deleted
4/16/12 10:41:37 AM#99
Originally posted by Latella

I thought mmoRPG´s were pretty much online RPG´s and as such, half the fun was that  every soul in them should be different, unique, chaotic, unbalanced and sport a different growth and powers and obtained different gear and abilities depending on how they chose to interact and partecipate within the world and the story.

So why is everyone obsessed about balance, fairness, other classes having cool spells or some guy obtaining the sword of doom when they do not?

Why are mmorpgs being turned in some kind of medieval fps?

I thought rpgs were about the story, the interactions and  not the pew pew and how that n00b warrior does moar damage with his e-peen strike than the mage with his flaming ballz of domination.

*shrug*

 

Because at the end of the day, it matters?

Would you like to spend months leveling up a character, only to get to max level and have other players tell you that your character is worthless because it does less damage or less utility than another class that can do excatly the same job?

Would you like to be killed repeatedly in one hit in PvP by that 'e-peen' strike? Would that be fun for you?

I dont think that every class should be balanced against one another, they should all have strengths and weaknesses. Making everything carbon copies of each other like WoW has done just ruins the flavour of the game.

For example a healer can easily kill a tank -> tank can beat mages -> mages beat scouts -> scouts beats healers. That sort of advantage chain doesnt bother me, because I think PvP should be balanced for group / large scale, not 1 on 1s. But it does still need to be balanced. If a class gets too good at killing everyone else, then it becomes flavour of the month and ruins the diversity of the game. Which is what you were saying you liked about MMOs.

Different? Unique? Not if everyone is playing the same class. Thats why balance is important.

  kjempff

Elite Member

Joined: 10/12/04
Posts: 720

Make worlds not stories

4/16/12 10:47:42 AM#100

Rpg games have been infested with the disease called pvp, balancing is just a result of pvp. The only way a game can get rid of that, is by completely dividing pvp from pve, however that will cause problems with integrety.

If you like pvp you have to deny that fact offcouse.

8 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Search