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4/15/12 12:35:09 PM#21
First of all, I'd like to know why you want the small case. There are some legitimate reasons for wanting a smaller form factor. But if it's just that the old case was too big, then it doesn't automatically follow that you need Micro ATX. A Cooler Master Cosmos 1000 is an enormous case. As compared to it, most full tower cases will seem small. A typical mid-tower case is substantially less than half of the weight and volume of the Cosmos 1000. Next, two of the three cases you link are barely smaller than a mid-tower. Just for fun, let's throw a couple of budget gaming mid-towers into the mix: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153 Now let's list the volume and weight of the three cases you've listed plus the two that I've listed in a random order (using the Excel random number generator and then sorting by it): 2364 in^3, 12.76 lbs 2481 in^3, 20.94 lbs 1859 in^3, 12.79 lbs 2441 in^3, 20.9 lbs 2668 in^3, 15.9 lbs So now, ignoring the official form factor and going just from size and weight, which two are the mid-towers? One of the MicroATX cases is obvious, but the others sure aren't. You can click the links and check the weights to find the answers, without having to compute the volume yourself. Part of the point of this is to question whether you really want to go for MicroATX. But it's also partly to say that even if the smaller form factor really is important to you, looking purely at whether or not it supports a full size ATX motherboard is the wrong criterion. |
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Perhaps I didn't clarify properly why my experience with a Cosmos 1000 has steered me toward the desire to have a smaller case, amoung other reasons. It wasn't just purely it's massive size (and yes that thing is pretty rediculous) but rather all the "wasted" space within the case I would never utilize. Having more expansion slots that I will use doesn't make sense to me so I would attempting to find a proper medium that will allow me to have a case with the least amount of "wasted" space within it while still meeting my computer gaming needs (read: $150-250 GPU range). Weight isn't a factor for me so the difference of say almost 8 pounds between a couple of the cases I listed is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Most if not all Mid Tower (standard ATX) cases come with 3-4 5.25 bays and a few 3.5 bays along with room for full ATX MB's which quite often support 6-8 expansion ports out the back in case you want to run SLI/Xfire and perhaps some other cards like a sound card or controllers. I will never use those slots as I would rather upgrade a single card than ran SLI/Xfire so again that is more space within the case that increases overall size I do not need nor want if I can avoid it. Now if for some reason micro ATX boards utilizing the same components as a standard ATX boards (CPU/single GPU/2x4G Ram/HD/DVD drive/PSU) simple cannot perform at the same level then I would reconsider my decision to go Micro ATX. I assumed the only disadvantage or a micro ATX is the lack of expansion options a standard ATX has available. Obviously just like all components I understand every board has their own performance levels so my above statement is just in general. The other reason for wanting the smaller case is due to where I plan to place it, which is on top of my desk away from my kids/dog. Not having a proper computer room at the moment (*sad face) my desktop space is at a premium I'm afraid and so that combined with the aforementioned criteria is why I am looking to go Micro ATX and a case built specifically with that size board in mind. |
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4/15/12 4:45:09 PM#23
If it's desk space that is at a premium, then a MicroATX mini tower gains you nothing unless you're going to set something on top of it--and if you are going to set something on top, then you'd better not be relying on a top fan for airflow. The smaller form factor only means the same desktop footprint as a normal mid-tower, but with less vertical height. The advantage of a larger case is that you can get more airflow, and have more room to put things without having to bunch everything together. If a system only needs to dissipate 100 W, then a cheap junk mini tower is fine. But for 300 W, a mid-tower brings real advantages. |
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Originally posted by Quizzical While I appreciate your expertise and free advice you hand out here on a regular basis I think you might have missed my point in my previous posts. After a bit of research on my own (Anandtech/Tom's Hardware/overclockers, etc) I've found for my needs a Micro ATX board is the best option and with that I would prefer to buy a case built with that size board in mind, rather than an after thought, I mean let's face it mid towers are designed with the idea that most who buy them will use standard ATX MBs. I also stated I understand the potential increase in heat less airflow in a mATX case offers over a standard mid tower, that too is something I willing to live with as I am not into overclocking. Most of the cases I linked showed favorable from those who purchased them as gaming cases. If money was no object then I would probably just go with the new Lian Li V700 but I do have a budget so that is not an option. Do you have much personal experience with mATX cases or are you like me and gather your knowledge from others by reading? I respect your opinion as you have proven yourself time and time again to be a wealth of computer knowledge but on occasion you have shown bias for your personal preference when offering advice to others. I respectfully ask in this case just understand I'm interested in a mATX build and do not wish to be convinced one way or the other to go standard ATX (my own research has shown, aside from heat and potentially cable management, the extra xpac bays/PCI slots on a standard ATX are not worth it for my needs). If you don't have personal experience that is of course ok, in which case I will base my decision on case through research. Thanks again! |
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4/16/12 4:58:03 AM#25
i was thinking of replacing my antec 300 turbojet with a quiet small micro atx system when ivy bridge and nvidia 600 releases. have a look at the silverstone tj08. seems like a really nice micro atx case- only 1 huge fan 180mm, should be whisper quiet. 22nm ivy bridge and 28nm ati/nvidia cards not as hot as current cards so you can run the fans on low settings. BTW: micro atx cases dont have cooling issues. there isnt a really clear relationship between size and cooling i have noticed while looking up reviews. only real disadvatnage of microatx is there is less room. |
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4/16/12 5:07:52 AM#26
Originally posted by miguksaram
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@Bishbosh, thank you very much for the info, I will definitely look into it.
@Avalon1000, that is good to know. Now I just have to find newegg pricing on amazon, kinda hard to do with all the discounts you can get ordering direct from newegg though. |
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4/16/12 12:33:51 PM#28
Originally posted by bishbosh It depends a lot on which particular case. If you make a full tower case with only a single 80 mm fan for airflow and try to dissipate 300 W with just that, you probably end up with cooling issues. Bigger cases have more space to put more fans, but that doesn't help if you don't actually put more fans in. You can get a mini tower that has a lot of airflow. But you can't just pick a mini tower at random and expect that it will have a lot of airflow. You have to look at the particular case in question. ----- Mid-tower cases that support ATX motherboards almost invariably support MicroATX, too. Furthermore, as I argued above, the larger MicroATX cases aren't any smaller than the smaller mid-tower ATX cases. If you ostensibly want a small case, and have two cases that are exactly the same size, but one supports ATX motherboards and the other doesn't, I think it's ridiculous to see not supporting ATX motherboards as an advantage. If you ignore weight and just go by volume, one of the mid-tower cases that I linked above is actually smaller than two of the mini towers that you (original poster, not bishbosh) linked. |
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Ok I took your (Quiz) posts to heart and talked things out with the wife. Given the current deals on Newegg I came up with the following (it's above my $1k limit but with $50 dollars in promo deals and all the mail in rebates it should come back down). As the deals listed are only good for another 24 hours I ask that you look it over and give me your thoughts. Some items I have cheaper alternatives but to keep the case aesthetically pleasing I went with the best deals I could find based on color scheme and customer reviews. And now the build: Grand total after Promos ($50) and MIR ($85) is $1, 032.89. |
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4/18/12 4:38:36 AM#30
Originally posted by miguksaram Nice build! |
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This would be an alternate build based on an i5-2500k.
Total cost after Promos ($50) and MIL ($65) is $1, 077.89 After looking this over I may just go this route as thats a small price increase for what I have heard is a drastic increase in OC potential versus my previous build. That said, all input is appreciated. |
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4/18/12 9:29:53 AM#32
If your looking to OC on that MSI motherboard you may want to up the model from a G43. Maybe to a G65 or above for better OC and power saving features. I know because I have an MSI board. Good for the money, but the lower end boards have alot of OC tools unavailable. IMO drop down you case some and get a better motherboard. Why spend more money on a pretty case than you are on the motherboard? Unless the computer sitting there looking nice is more important that whats in it. Just my 2cp.
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4/18/12 10:58:06 AM#33
Ah, I see. You've figured that you can get a 240 GB SSD for about the same price as a 120 GB SSD plus a 500 GB hard drive. If 240 GB is plenty of capacity for you but 120 GB isn't, then that makes sense to do. Personally, I've got a 120 GB SSD and no hard drive. Some people have a terabyte or so of random junk laying around, so they can't do that. I wasn't familiar with the SSD, so I had to look into it a bit. It's a first generation SandForce model. That probably means it uses the stock SandForce firmware, so it will be fine. It won't be as fast as some newer SSDs, but good SSDs are so fast that even if you had both side by side, you might not notice the difference outside of synthetic benchmarks. For much of this thread, you kept insisting that you wanted a small case. Now you've picked a case that is fairly large for a mid tower. If that's what you want, that's fine, though I wouldn't personally spend $140 on a case. You also keep picking memory that is a lot more expensive than necessary. It will be nice memory, sure. But you can get the same specs except for the extra low voltage for $40, or even a name brand with a heatspreader for $45. I gave you a link to a bunch of options on New Egg with the right specs. |
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I decided to upgrade the MB to the GD65 version as suggested. The case is actually only $100 after promo code (-$20) and MIR (-$20) which made it seem like a great deal overall and if I'm going to go with a larger case than I had originally desired I'd prefer it to look nice, which is the same reason I am willing to pay $15 more for the Ram. I'm not an appearance snob but I do subscribe to the belief you should enjoying looking at something which is constantly staring you in the face (it's going to be sitting on top of desk, literally right next to me). And for that I'm willing to pay a small percentage extra. If those are the only items which you find odd about my build then I will assume the rest meets with your approval for the price/performance at the roughly $1k budget. Thanks again! |
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4/18/12 9:07:44 PM#35
If you're paying for that particular case partially because you like the looks of it, then I won't argue against that. Aesthetics and how important they are to you is a matter of personal preference. But I hope you realize that once memory is inside your case, you can't see it anymore. |
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The1ceQueen
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/02/08
"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back." |
4/18/12 9:17:28 PM#36
http://www.hardware-revolution.com/computer-systems/gaming-pc/ Always have good gaming builds within anyones budget, and their upgraded each month. There are builds $300-$700-----$700-$1500-----$2000-$3500
What happens when you log off your characters????..... |
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4/19/12 9:05:03 AM#37
Originally posted by miguksaram Yeah looks like your ready to go =) Enjoy the new build. That I5 rocks. I had mine OC to 4.5 for a few weeks, then backed it down to 4.0 because nothing I do taxes even 4.0 at all.
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Originally posted by Tayah Very nice site, I might utilize some of his suggestions before I pull the plug. Thanks! |
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Originally posted by jdnewell Really looking forward to building this. When you had it at 4.5 what temps were you seeing? I'm thinking I might go with the i5-2550k. |
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4/19/12 9:59:04 PM#40
I have a Corsair H60. Not the best but it does very well. At 4.5ghz under intel burn test i was in the low 70s ( 71-74) across 4 cores. During Prime95 in the mid 60s ( 63-68) roughly. Idle temps are around 32-34, game temps after two or three hours hover mid 50s ( 53-57) Thats at 1.32v & 4.5ghz OC. I backed down to 1.20v and 4.0ghz just due to the fact that 4.5 wasnt needed at all for anything I do. Which is mainly gaming, streaming and dvd/blu ray movie watching. If you were doing more CPU intensive applications I can see keeping it at a higher clock maybe. But other than bragging rights or just to do it 4.5 isnt needed for most stuff. But its an easy OC if your so inclined. I may could have gotten 4.6 or 4.7 at 1.35v but there was no use IMO. And I want this processor to last at least 3 years, so not gonna OC it that high just for the hell of it. With a 7870 and 4.0 OC there isnt anything I cant run well at max settings. Crysis 2 ultra dx11 I am getting 45-60fps constant. Heaven benchmark at 1920 x 1200, moderate tesselation, ect I hit 1550 score. Not too bad for a single GPU and I5 at 4.0. I am happy at least =)
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