Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

Originally posted by Dankus

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

so if WvW pvp really is instanced.im assuming they do in fact have actual world pvp right

meaning i can grab some buddies,go out into the world and just start slaughtering people? cuz one of the things thats pretty much a huge negative check mark to me in my current mmo is the fact they pretty much scrapped real world pvp

im still kinda meh on the whole dodge system thing though but i dont know.the upcoming beta has no nda so maybe the best time to start askin about aspects im unsure of would be whenever that beta is

 

so theres no actual zone where the WvW stuff happens,i was just under the assumption it was gonna work like how ilum worked in sw tor before it got messed up

 

 

In a sense it's similar to Ilum, in that the mists are essentially a zone for PVP. They have a keep taking system instead of bases like TOR but the objective is essentially the same, grab and hold all keeps to win.

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Originally posted by Eir_S
Rift didn't have dynamic events.  It had monster spawners that could NOT be failed.

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Not true. :) You can fail zone event in Rift if nobody defends wardstones. Still, every particular zone event always follows the same pre-determined pattern so it's not really dynamic content. The closest thing Rift has to dynamic content is instant adventures. (And IAs could be quite interesting actually if the implementation wasn't so simplistic.)
 
Also some public quests in WAR were supposed to involve PvP. I think this qualifies as dynamic content as well.
 

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

Originally posted by Dankus

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

so if WvW pvp really is instanced.im assuming they do in fact have actual world pvp right

meaning i can grab some buddies,go out into the world and just start slaughtering people? cuz one of the things thats pretty much a huge negative check mark to me in my current mmo is the fact they pretty much scrapped real world pvp

im still kinda meh on the whole dodge system thing though but i dont know.the upcoming beta has no nda so maybe the best time to start askin about aspects im unsure of would be whenever that beta is

 

so theres no actual zone where the WvW stuff happens,i was just under the assumption it was gonna work like how ilum worked in sw tor before it got messed up

 

 

In a sense it's similar to Ilum, in that the mists are essentially a zone for PVP. They have a keep taking system instead of bases like TOR but the objective is essentially the same, grab and hold all keeps to win.

There is additional PvE content in WvWvW. For example, there are "frogmen" who can be convinced to join your cause if you send people to help complete certain objectives for them. I'm not sure if they activate to go do something predetermined, or if they become a resource you can dispatch to do certain things. There are also supply depos with caravans traveling between them. Intercept these and you resource starve keeps, making repairs impossible. I imagine in practice, with 500 people playing, it becomes a thinking man's (or woman's) game over that 2 week period, made even more interesting by the fact that it's 3 factions competing. Do you join with Red to crush Green, or attack Red while they're fully committed to attacking Green's keep etc etc etc.

Originally posted by Charlizzard

Originally posted by Distopia

 

In a sense it's similar to Ilum, in that the mists are essentially a zone for PVP. They have a keep taking system instead of bases like TOR but the objective is essentially the same, grab and hold all keeps to win.

There is additional PvE content in WvWvW. For example, there are "frogmen" who can be convinced to join your cause if you send people to help complete certain objectives for them. I'm not sure if they activate to go do something predetermined, or if they become a resource you can dispatch to do certain things. There are also supply depos with caravans traveling between them. Intercept these and you resource starve keeps, making repairs impossible. I imagine in practice, with 500 people playing, it becomes a thinking man's (or woman's) game over that 2 week period, made even more interesting by the fact that it's 3 factions competing. Do you join with Red to crush Green, or attack Red while they're fully committed to attacking Green's keep etc etc etc.

Yeah this is true, there are differences and many additions. I was only pointing out where it's similar on a basic level. I should have said as much.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by steeler989

Originally posted by Lucioon

...

Dynamic Events - Rift

...

 Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

In that case nothing truly is dynamic unless you have an actual GM inventing stuff as they go and I have a feeling that would get plenty of complains as well.

But Rift did not invent DEs, they have been in other games before. What Rift did was to put a higher focus on them.

GW2 on the other hand changed out quests for DEs, which is new. GW2 did not invent DEs but they found a new use for it.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

 

GW2's DE's are anything but dynamic. It's a cyclical flow chart of events

In that case nothing truly is dynamic unless you have an actual GM inventing stuff as they go and I have a feeling that would get plenty of complains as well.

But Rift did not invent DEs, they have been in other games before. What Rift did was to put a higher focus on them.

GW2 on the other hand changed out quests for DEs, which is new. GW2 did not invent DEs but they found a new use for it.

World PVP is really the only aspect of MMO's that will ever truly be dynamic aside from economies. I can see where Geezer is coming from here. DE's essentially are cyclic I don't think Cyclic Events would have the same ring though, so they opted to use a more buzz worthy title.

Originally posted by wowfan1996

 

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Originally posted by Eir_S
Rift didn't have dynamic events.  It had monster spawners that could NOT be failed.

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Not true. :) You can fail zone event in Rift if nobody defends wardstones. Still, every particular zone event always follows the same pre-determined pattern so it's not really dynamic content. The closest thing Rift has to dynamic content is instant adventures. (And IAs could be quite interesting actually if the implementation wasn't so simplistic.)
 
Also some public quests in WAR were supposed to involve PvP. I think this qualifies as dynamic content as well.
 

Rifts had events you could fail. Trust me, in the level 50 zones, u didn't want ot fail, the monsters would run rampant and own the place. 

Guild Wars 2 adds a variety of more consequences to failing.  

I would n't bash Rifts rifts. The rifts were pretty random. Yeah rifts appeared in the same spot but you certainly didn't now what spot they were appearing, especially during a rift storm.  

Guild WArs 2 Dynamic Events can happen anywhere on the map.  Yeah the ame events will happen in similar places, but when and which place will always be up in the air. It als obranches out into quest chains.  Rifts experimented with this a bit, but the chain was one long nonaltering change.  

Dynamic events are defined as self generating.  These events are created based on variables occuring in the world.  WvW is not dynamic  (thugh there ar dynamic events in WVW).  The ability to compete against other players does not euqal the world dynamic.  

I get it, u guys like to p@wn one another.  That doesnt make it dynamic. 

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Lucioon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

 

 

 

 

So...would we say they are pulling a Blizzard 2004 WoW moment?  That's what WoW did but with games before 2004 and look how well that turned out for them.  Hence, why I can't wait to play GW2.  I wonder if it will cause a GW2 clone domino effect for the next 8 years.  Hmmm....

First off, your sig is hilarious. You're probably going to get in trouble for the size of it, but I love it anyway.

Secondly, GOD I hope you're wrong in your post. I absolutely love GW2 and am looking forward to it more than any game I've ever been excited about, but I do NOT want people to clone it constantly the way we've had everyone clone WoW for nearly the last decade. There is more than one way to create a fun environment for people to play in, and whether GW2 gets it right or not, I don't want to play a hundred other iterations of it. When I get a new game, I want it to be ~a new game~, not a reskin of what already exists.

Originally posted by Crake_1

As the old saying goes:

"Good artists borrow; great artists steal."

 -Banksy

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Lucioon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

 

 

 

 

So...would we say they are pulling a Blizzard 2004 WoW moment?  That's what WoW did but with games before 2004 and look how well that turned out for them.  Hence, why I can't wait to play GW2.  I wonder if it will cause a GW2 clone domino effect for the next 8 years.  Hmmm....

Daimlar/Benz didn't event the car by that logic. Steel was already invented. Combustion engines existed. Glass ertainly was invented.  

Heck, I"m sure milk and fruit have been around for a while, but it wasnt until we mixed them up that we got the milkshake

It does make me happy that I only see this type of insane logic from people hating on GW2 at all times. Make me glad I won't be playing with these folks and will be playing with people who appreciate RPGs.  Have fun P@wning your buddies tonight.

For the record, SWTOR entered development (actual software development) well, well after GW2.  

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Originally posted by Distopia
World PVP is really the only aspect of MMO's that will ever truly be dynamic aside from economies. I can see where Geezer is coming from here. DE's essentially are cyclic I don't think Cyclic Events would have the same ring though, so they opted to use a more buzz worthy title.

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I think this all boils down to the definition of "dynamic". If we label traditional content (quests, dungeons) as "static" (nothing happens until players arrive) then Rift zone events and GW2 DEs are "dynamic".
 
Now I have no clue about how good mob AI is GW2, but if it's good enough DEs might indeed feel pretty dynamic. :)
 

Originally posted by wowfan1996

 

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Originally posted by Distopia
World PVP is really the only aspect of MMO's that will ever truly be dynamic aside from economies. I can see where Geezer is coming from here. DE's essentially are cyclic I don't think Cyclic Events would have the same ring though, so they opted to use a more buzz worthy title.

---

 

I think this all boils down to the definition of "dynamic". If we label traditional content (quests, dungeons) as "static" (nothing happens until players arrive) then Rift zone events and GW2 DEs are "dynamic".
 
Now I have no clue about how good mob AI is GW2, but if it's good enough DEs might indeed feel pretty dynamic. :)
 

Dynamic

An interactive system or process, especially one involving competing or conflicting forces

The events in GW2  are interative processes that  involve competing forces (players vs npcs) and therefore by definition is indeed dynamic, however, this can be very misleading.  The events themselves  are static in the sense that they will  never change.  The event loop will never evolve and both beginning and end results of the event will forever remain the same.  Finishing an event does not have  a lasting effect on the game world as the event will reset shortly and start  it's  never changing loop once more.

So The DE in GW2 are both dynamic and static. Better half way than  completely static I guess though in the end.

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"I think that, similar to the first game, people who are more focused on nitpicking the game than going in w/ a more open mind are going to miss out on a lot of good things."

how does that phrase go? pot calling the kettle black,maybe you shouldnt talk about focusing on nitpicking the game when you yourself are doing it in the same exact post.calling the game another wow

but hey,the same type of people that ruined sw tor are the ones that picked the game apart and called it another wow clone

 

It IS another WoW clone, as basically stated by the Bioware or EA CEO.  Can't remember which now, but when you issue a statement saying it's "dumb" to change the things WoW did, you're obviously not dedicated to change.

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Originally posted by dontadow
I would n't bash Rifts rifts. The rifts were pretty random. Yeah rifts appeared in the same spot but you certainly didn't now what spot they were appearing, especially during a rift storm.  

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It's not about where they appear. :) Each rift is a partially timered scripted event. In most cases rift mobs do nothing when they spawn unless their are attacked. Besides, individual rifts don't scale at all. You get same mobs whether you are alone or not.
 
Zone events in Rift don't scale very well either but at least they spawn invasions so they are somewhat dynamic. Instant adventures scale but again generally IA mobs do nothing unless attacked (except when the goal is to defend a wardstone).
 
P.S. I mentioned difficulty scaling because it's another dynamic factor that can be realistically added. If you get more mobs or tougher mobs when more players are involved it's still not completely unpredictable but it's another little step forward.

Originally posted by Clocksimus

Originally posted by wowfan1996

 

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I think this all boils down to the definition of "dynamic". If we label traditional content (quests, dungeons) as "static" (nothing happens until players arrive) then Rift zone events and GW2 DEs are "dynamic".
 
Now I have no clue about how good mob AI is GW2, but if it's good enough DEs might indeed feel pretty dynamic. :)
 

Dynamic

An interactive system or process, especially one involving competing or conflicting forces

The events in GW2  are interative processes that  involve competing forces (players vs npcs) and therefore by definition is indeed dynamic, however, this can be very misleading.  The events themselves  are static in the sense that they will  never change.  The event loop will never evolve and both beginning and end results of the event will forever remain the same.  Finishing an event does not have  a lasting effect on the game world as the event will reset shortly and start  it's  never changing loop once more.

So The DE in GW2 are both dynamic and static. Better half way than  completely static I guess though in the end.

I'd think they have this in mind when describing content as dynamic 2. marked by usually continuous and productive activity or change <a dynamic city>

Originally posted by Eir_S

It IS another WoW clone, as basically stated by the Bioware or EA CEO.  Can't remember which now, but when you issue a statement saying it's "dumb" to change the things WoW did, you're obviously not dedicated to change.

I think this statement is taken out of context by many. As it's basically saying you don't undo the ways WOW brought the genre forward. If it meant what many of you paint it as they wouldn't even have voiced content. If TOR was exactly like WOW it wouldn't have the issues it has right now.

In short it says, you can't ignore what made wow successful, it didn't say you have to copy every feature implementation for implementation.

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Originally posted by Distopia
In short it says, you can't ignore what made wow successful, it didn't say you have to copy every feature implementation for implementation.

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Originally posted by wowfan1996

 

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Originally posted by Distopia
In short it says, you can't ignore what made wow successful, it didn't say you have to copy every feature implementation for implementation.

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Unfortunately for clone-makers WoW is successful not just because of its gameplay features. :) I'm actually listening to Cata soundtrack right now and it's a damn nice soundtrack. Of course, gameplay goes first but WoW also has all those little extra things that make the journey really enjoyable. ;)
 
 

Yep, I'd rather have an original Prada bag than a cheap imitation.  :)

Originally posted by steeler989

Originally posted by Lucioon

GW2 didn't reinvent MMO, they aren't introducing anything new to the Genre, but what they are doing is combining everything that was fun, everything that was innovative in other games and bring them together and evolve them to fit their game.

I came across a post where someone was discussing whether or not GW2 is Innovative, and introducing anything NEW.

And someone posted that everything that existed in GW2 existed in a form in every other MMO But they were never all in a single game before. And I believe thats Why GW2 is so popular and will stay popular.

Dodge mechanic - DDO and Vindictus, TERA

W v W - DAOC RvR

Dynamic Events - Rift

Personal Stories - SWTOR

 

 

 

 

 Now many can argue with this. The "Rifts" Would come up in the same place, be the same thing, and people could just farm on them (Like I did : P )

GW2 has ACTUAL Dynamic Events, that people don't know what will come up and where.

it wont take long for people to figure out what events happen where.