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4/14/12 5:55:35 PM#61
Originally posted by Latella For the simple fact that WAY too many games insist on adding PvP, when they really should focus on PvE, and leave PvP completely out. "Balance" and "fairness" complaints are most typical of games with PvP. "Balance" within an mmo is an endless chase, that sucks up an almost unlimited amount of time/talent and experience (if its allowed to) with damn little to show for it. Why? Because the people playing the class that is nerfed will howl, and the other classes will whine that it wasn't enough ^^ If the class is buffed, the other classes will howl OP!! while the people in the class will whine that it wasn't enough. ^^ its a never ending game of wack a mole. |
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4/14/12 5:58:42 PM#62
Originally posted by GeezerGamer Bashing kids for not being "First" can have detrimental effects to development - we've verified this repeatedly. But in classic Western form, we've gone right over to the other extreme now, where everything is acceptable, and you win by having a pulse. It's one thing to praise someone put putting in a good effort, even if it didn't result in a win, but you need to incorporate encouragement to improve further, which we generally fail to do. MMO's are just followed suit. A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs: |
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4/14/12 10:28:05 PM#63
Originally posted by evolver1972 It's called FPS games man, RPG's are about stats, gear, smart character building, and tactics. MMORPG's are all of that, plus cooperation with your group mates to overcome the enemy. |
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xaritscin
Advanced Member
Joined: 9/25/11
"Antherea Online will see the light, eventually" |
4/15/12 12:25:13 PM#64
Originally posted by nate1980 THIS...........if you want balance in PvP go back to your console FPS....war must not be fair........"everyone is a winner" doesnt exist in war......is you kill or get killed..........if someone gets fucked in PvP always then it should see what is doing wrong, instead of complaining about the others.........anyways, the idea is to have fun, if you dont have fun in PvP then do something else.......i have loose in PvP in WoW, and its pretty annoying with all the Twinks and nerfed things, maybe it was better in vanilla.....but anyways, the idea is to have fun no matter if its PvE or PvP, the problem is casual gamers and the "boom" of multiplayer FPS games.....even RTS had to change to keep casual players engaged, and that shouldnt be..... |
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4/15/12 12:28:46 PM#65
Try playing Monopoly where you get half the normal starting money and everyone else gets twice the normal. |
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4/15/12 12:35:58 PM#66
Originally posted by VassagoMael Play chess and spot your opponent a queen and both knights. |
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Cuathon
Hard Core Member
Joined: 10/24/04
Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us. |
4/15/12 12:40:23 PM#67
Originally posted by VassagoMael I would still kick their ass because the gods of falsely labeled as arbitrary events, ie. dice rolls, always go in my favor. Not every game has to be the same. Just because you compare two things under the massive massive label of game doesn't mean your comparison is valid. If the primary concern you have for a game is flawlessly balanced PvP then why the hell are you playing mmorpgs? No one can force you not to do it, but it makes very little sense to do. |
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4/15/12 12:43:52 PM#68
Originally posted by Cecropia That's the reverse of reality:
It's the same in PVE. Balance emphasizes skill. In a balanced game you will only ever win or lose due to skill. In an imbalanced one, you pick the shallow, obviously-overpowered choice and win for free. Again, very similar to "everyone gets a medal".
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4/15/12 1:38:54 PM#69
Originally posted by Axehilt Naw, losing team still gets tokens. Play for speed, lose as quickly as possible, lauch the next game, badmouth any players that might want to play to win, maximize your token income. That's only one senseless design team's botch, however. |
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4/15/12 1:44:08 PM#70
Originally posted by Wraithone
The only way you win is by skill and luck alone. It would be boring but you would have fairness and balance. |
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4/15/12 1:46:28 PM#71
I only care about balance in PvP and in same level. The only time someone should be more powerful is when levels are different. The whole notion that you would allow someone to be stronger then another via artificial methods such as gear is an anathema to me. |
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4/15/12 2:09:36 PM#72
Originally posted by Latella Cause people don't like getting pissed on, even in a virtual world. |
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4/15/12 3:44:03 PM#73
Balance is mostly due to PvP. What has happened however is because most games now center on PvE with PvP tacked on as almost an afterthought PvPers start to complain about inbalances in the classes for PvP so the devs rebalance the classes. This usually ends up in PvE players getting their classes nerfed all to hell for PvE which causes them to start complaining. This causes the devs to get into a sort of balance war between the PvPers and the PvEers.
What Devs need to do is decide what kind of game they want from to onset and balance it for that. If your game is a PvE game make it the best PvE experience possible. If it's primarily a PvP game then make it the most balanced PvP experience you can. When you try to cater to both playstyles you just end up screwing your game all up and nobody's happy with the results.
Bren while(horse==dead) |
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4/15/12 3:44:29 PM#74
Originally posted by Axehilt LOL. My god, man. I can only suggest that you change your username to Mister Twister, as there aint nothin' you can't twist ;)
"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen F Roberts |
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4/15/12 5:18:48 PM#75
Originally posted by Majinash Well in sports everybody starts out the same. They don't end up that way. Just like in mmorpg's, everybody starts out at level 1 with crap gear. Where you go from there is up to you. Many of the talking points used in mmorpg's would never work in sports. For example, player B says, "Player A plays more often than I do so he has an advantage, it's not fair". In sports, somebody who practices more is going to be better, for good reason. Another example, player B says, "Player A has been playing for 10 years, I can never catch up". Would that excuse fly in sports? How about player B says, "I know this is a team sport but I want to play by myself". Do we change the rules to suit him? Or player B says, "Player A gets to go on X Y and Z raids and I don't because I'm not in a raiding guild and can't devote three hours to this game". In sports would somebody say that want to go to the playoffs even though thier team sucks and can't commit the time necessary to play a full game. MMORPG's seem to be striving for equal result instead of equal opportunity. That's where I see the problem. "How should I know if it works? That's what beta testers are for. I only coded it." |
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Originally posted by dave6660 I think this is exactly where the problem is at. Rawr. |
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4/15/12 5:29:36 PM#77
Originally posted by Cecropia It's not twisting to say up is up after someone says up is down. |
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4/15/12 5:34:59 PM#78
Originally posted by LatellaOriginally posted by dave6660 Nicely put dave6660 "i don't waste my time building relationship in games" - nariusseldon |
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4/15/12 5:43:00 PM#79
Originally posted by Axehilt I think it makes perfect sense. If you have balance it's everyone gets a chance to win, it brings it down to whoever knows how to play their class the best or use their skills correctly or whatever, but if you make it so certain classes are overpowered people flock to the overpowered classes. It won't be a game of choice but a game of whoever is willing to play the overpowered class winning. |
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4/15/12 5:49:46 PM#80
It's funny, a lot of the people in this thread complaining that it doesn't have to be fair, are the same ones ranting and raving at the idea of weapons and such getting added to a cash shop. Can't have it both ways, people. "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions." |
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