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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Sandbox vs Themepark Discussion Thread

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470 posts found
  Camthylion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/08
Posts: 229

4/14/12 3:34:56 AM#201

Give me sandbox, period.

 

The problem, companies that make sandbox MMOs are B grade, and small.  If a giant like EA would stop the cookie cutter MMO market they have going on?  Well then MAYBE we could get a well polished sandbox MMO.   I HIIGHLY enjoyed SHADOWBANE, but wolfpack back in the early 00's was a small company with low funding.  Shadowbane was forced to be rushed way to early, and it failed because of lack of funds, and lack of time to to be finished by wolfpack studios.

Darkfall, Mortal Online, etc. etc. all of these games LIKE Shadowbane have small 1 game company owners, those games are their bread and butter.  This is the problem with sandbox games, we have allowed World of Warcraft set the standards for MMO gaming.  Its not completely our fault because WoW is a very polished, maintained, fun game.  However, WoW being as cool as it was back in the day just didn't fullfill my MMO needs.  Since the launch of WoW every company that has launched a high budget MMO has tried to copy the leading giant, but they have failed.  They failed because no one wants to move FROM Wow to ANOTHER WoW!!!!  Seriously?  Its sad that Sony, EA, and the rest of the companys that have funding want to copy off someone elses success.  It just don't work like that in the MMO world, fans are going to give up their piece of gold for a lesser copy cat clone.

 

All that said, I am personally sick of games like WoW! I have had my fill, all these games copying its playstyle need to stop! Someone needs to step up and take the thick unwondered path.  I want something different, and as of right now the ONLY MMO I will buy in the future is Archeage.  Until it launches I will probably just pass my time on DAOC doing RVR etc. a game that was one of the first solid MMOs.... but sad a company like EA now owns it and the rights to one of the Godfather MMOs will be lost, never to surface a new and improved sequel!  And no I don't mean that PoS garb some call WAR, what a crap game...  but I have said my piece, and its how I feel, after playing MMOs since EQ1, I have given up hope for the MMO world.  I will be happy when the day comes that a mainstream MMO doesn't make my stomach turnover, and my temper raise because its a WoW cookie cutter MMO.

  Hurvart

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 566

4/14/12 5:14:25 AM#202

A good game should be both themepark and sandbox. It should be possible for players to create content and perhaps also to build things. But there should also be developer created content like quests and events. But you should need to explore to find it. No questhubs and no rails!

The virtual world must be open and big. No instances! There must be a harsh death penelty and delevelling should be possible. Corps runs should be long and naked. Travelling must be interesting and meaningful. There should be boats and other transports. Travelling from one part of the world to another should feel like a big project. It should be dangerous and take time.

The games main focus should be exploring the virtual world. Everything you do should be related to that.

Im sure a lot of players that only play modern themeparks would call this game a sandbox. But its not. Its a real MMORPG that can be both sandbox and themepark depending on what you want to do.

  Heinz130

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 227

War...war never change

4/14/12 11:15:04 AM#203
Originally posted by Camthylion

Give me sandbox, period.

 

The problem, companies that make sandbox MMOs are B grade, and small.  If a giant like EA would stop the cookie cutter MMO market they have going on?  Well then MAYBE we could get a well polished sandbox MMO.   I HIIGHLY enjoyed SHADOWBANE, but wolfpack back in the early 00's was a small company with low funding.  Shadowbane was forced to be rushed way to early, and it failed because of lack of funds, and lack of time to to be finished by wolfpack studios.

Darkfall, Mortal Online, etc. etc. all of these games LIKE Shadowbane have small 1 game company owners, those games are their bread and butter.  This is the problem with sandbox games, we have allowed World of Warcraft set the standards for MMO gaming.  Its not completely our fault because WoW is a very polished, maintained, fun game.  However, WoW being as cool as it was back in the day just didn't fullfill my MMO needs.  Since the launch of WoW every company that has launched a high budget MMO has tried to copy the leading giant, but they have failed.  They failed because no one wants to move FROM Wow to ANOTHER WoW!!!!  Seriously?  Its sad that Sony, EA, and the rest of the companys that have funding want to copy off someone elses success.  It just don't work like that in the MMO world, fans are going to give up their piece of gold for a lesser copy cat clone.

 

All that said, I am personally sick of games like WoW! I have had my fill, all these games copying its playstyle need to stop! Someone needs to step up and take the thick unwondered path.  I want something different, and as of right now the ONLY MMO I will buy in the future is Archeage.  Until it launches I will probably just pass my time on DAOC doing RVR etc. a game that was one of the first solid MMOs.... but sad a company like EA now owns it and the rights to one of the Godfather MMOs will be lost, never to surface a new and improved sequel!  And no I don't mean that PoS garb some call WAR, what a crap game...  but I have said my piece, and its how I feel, after playing MMOs since EQ1, I have given up hope for the MMO world.  I will be happy when the day comes that a mainstream MMO doesn't make my stomach turnover, and my temper raise because its a WoW cookie cutter MMO.

True story

But i dont think they shuld cut off themepark for time at once,some of us have kids

Themepark is a good kids initiation for sandbox,so they will not end up likea n00b in a good sandbox forun or in game

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  otacu

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 552

4/14/12 11:25:47 AM#204

Simply put.

 

I'd like to play sandbox games but i can't.

Too much timesink.

Sandbox games while good require too much time to be fully enjoyed. 

And that's why they will always be a niche market.

  LEmmopeasant

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 46

4/14/12 9:16:52 PM#205
Originally posted by otacu

Simply put.

 

I'd like to play sandbox games but i can't.

Too much timesink.

Sandbox games while good require too much time to be fully enjoyed. 

And that's why they will always be a niche market.

They don't have to be designed like that.

  Jupsto

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 2109

4/14/12 9:25:40 PM#206

My ideal game is a sandbox by FAR, but I would still enjoy a themepark if its an extremely good one.

like guildwars 2 is looking to better than pretty much all sandbox mmos!

My blog:

  Chakaido

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 3

4/14/12 9:38:34 PM#207

I agree. Who has 5 hours day to play in a sandbox design?

What I'd love to see is better (more creative, innovatively) designed "themepark" approaches with some sandbox elements. The sandbox elements allow you could spend a bit more time on when you have it. 

Perhaps the next generation development is customised gaming?  If there are developers out there that need assistance designing it. I'd be happy to. But I'm not a developer...just a gamer  :-)

 

  LEmmopeasant

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 46

4/17/12 10:52:38 PM#208

Why are people saying you must spend long sessions playing sandbox games to get anything out of them?

  Sythion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/11
Posts: 427

4/18/12 1:06:05 PM#209
Originally posted by LEmmopeasant

Why are people saying you must spend long sessions playing sandbox games to get anything out of them?

Because there's nothing to get out of them other than interactions with other players and what you make and build.

 

Sandbox games will get really big numbers if and only if someone finds out how to make these games instantly and constantly engaging, instead of forcing players to search desperately for something to do, or make their own fun.

  LEmmopeasant

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 46

4/18/12 4:28:51 PM#210
Originally posted by Sythion
Originally posted by LEmmopeasant

Why are people saying you must spend long sessions playing sandbox games to get anything out of them?

Because there's nothing to get out of them other than interactions with other players and what you make and build.

 

Sandbox games will get really big numbers if and only if someone finds out how to make these games instantly and constantly engaging, instead of forcing players to search desperately for something to do, or make their own fun.

I understand what you're saying. Not all sandboxes take hours to engage. Though a lot of bad ones do. So people think it's the norm for sandboxes.

  dubyahite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/11
Posts: 2506

4/19/12 2:50:05 AM#211
People always say they want the sandpark. I want the themebox.

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  Hurvart

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 566

4/19/12 3:34:22 AM#212
Originally posted by otacu

Simply put.

 

I'd like to play sandbox games but i can't.

Too much timesink.

Sandbox games while good require too much time to be fully enjoyed. 

And that's why they will always be a niche market.

In a sandbox you create your own timesinks. You really cant blame the game. Its possible to figure out a playstyle and things to do in game that means you can play in small chunks if you prefer that. The game is not designed one way or the other. It will give you the tools and you can decide what to do.

  Sythion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/11
Posts: 427

4/19/12 9:40:02 AM#213
Originally posted by Hurvart
Originally posted by otacu

Simply put.

 

I'd like to play sandbox games but i can't.

Too much timesink.

Sandbox games while good require too much time to be fully enjoyed. 

And that's why they will always be a niche market.

In a sandbox you create your own timesinks. You really cant blame the game. Its possible to figure out a playstyle and things to do in game that means you can play in small chunks if you prefer that. The game is not designed one way or the other. It will give you the tools and you can decide what to do.

I disagree. Almost by definition a sandbox game needs long periods of time spent playing in order to nurture in game relationships. If you're playing for any other reason, either you aren't really playing a sandbox (no, EQ and Vanguard are not sandbox), or you are better off playing a AAA themepark game.

  Hurvart

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 566

4/19/12 10:06:40 AM#214
Originally posted by Sythion
Originally posted by Hurvart
Originally posted by otacu

Simply put.

 

I'd like to play sandbox games but i can't.

Too much timesink.

Sandbox games while good require too much time to be fully enjoyed. 

And that's why they will always be a niche market.

In a sandbox you create your own timesinks. You really cant blame the game. Its possible to figure out a playstyle and things to do in game that means you can play in small chunks if you prefer that. The game is not designed one way or the other. It will give you the tools and you can decide what to do.

I disagree. Almost by definition a sandbox game needs long periods of time spent playing in order to nurture in game relationships. If you're playing for any other reason, either you aren't really playing a sandbox (no, EQ and Vanguard are not sandbox), or you are better off playing a AAA themepark game.


You can be anything or anyone you want. Perhaps all I want is to be able to craft the best swords on the server. And be famous for that. I can log in and play one hour and perhaps sell a few swords. Then log in the next day and buy some materials I need for my sword crafting. I dont have to be part of a team focused on progression that depend on me and wants me to play all the time.

Sandbox games are perfect if you want to be able to play in small chunks. You just have to find the right role that fits that preference.

Some themeparks have raids that lasts for 5 hours. If you cant play 5 hours you can forget that raid. If you want to be good and get the absolute best gear your often forced to play alot and for several hours each session in themeparks. But a sandbox is not focused on raids or gear grinding. A big difference. You can of course play all day if you want. But there is no need. There is no linear on rails progress that force you to do that.

  Sythion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/11
Posts: 427

4/19/12 10:36:08 AM#215
Originally posted by Hurvart
 Perhaps all I want is to be able to craft the best swords on the server. And be famous for that. I can log in and play one hour and perhaps sell a few swords.

What is this game where you can play 1 hour a day and be the best crafter on your server? Must not have many players, if that's possible to do.

  Hurvart

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 566

4/19/12 11:00:18 AM#216
Originally posted by Sythion
Originally posted by Hurvart
 Perhaps all I want is to be able to craft the best swords on the server. And be famous for that. I can log in and play one hour and perhaps sell a few swords.

What is this game where you can play 1 hour a day and be the best crafter on your server? Must not have many players, if that's possible to do.

Some days you will probably have to play more. But you can play in smaller chunks. You are not forced to finish raids or events that lasts 4-5-6 hours like you are in some themeparks. I can perhaps play 6 hours/day if I play 1 hour in the morning, 3 hours in the afternoon and 2 hours before I go to bed late evening. But perhaps its not possible for me to ever play 5-6 hour sessions.  My point is that you have more freedom to plan your time and figure out and find something that works for you if you play a sandbox. Because you are not on rails and there is more freedom and more options in general.

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4874

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/19/12 1:00:28 PM#217
Originally posted by Hurvart
Originally posted by Sythion
Originally posted by Hurvart
 Perhaps all I want is to be able to craft the best swords on the server. And be famous for that. I can log in and play one hour and perhaps sell a few swords.

What is this game where you can play 1 hour a day and be the best crafter on your server? Must not have many players, if that's possible to do.

Some days you will probably have to play more. But you can play in smaller chunks. You are not forced to finish raids or events that lasts 4-5-6 hours like you are in some themeparks. I can perhaps play 6 hours/day if I play 1 hour in the morning, 3 hours in the afternoon and 2 hours before I go to bed late evening. But perhaps its not possible for me to ever play 5-6 hour sessions.  My point is that you have more freedom to plan your time and figure out and find something that works for you if you play a sandbox. Because you are not on rails and there is more freedom and more options in general.

 I have played a number of sandboxes.  While yes you can play as little or as long as you want, EVERY activity in a sandbox requires a significant amount of time.  Playing one hour a day you will never be the best or even among the very good ones at anything in the game ever, unless the game has a skill/level cap.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  User Deleted
4/19/12 1:04:57 PM#218

Eventually (hopefully) the mmo gaming industry will turn their gaze towards sandbox gaming platforms. Maybe the mmo world is not ready for it yet, but I do hope that sometime in the future we'll have an epic sandbox mmorpg with millions and millions of players turning the tide of world pvp every day, building massive cities, and witnessing battles (world pvp) of epic proportions. (*sigh) someday!

  LEmmopeasant

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 46

4/20/12 1:25:03 AM#219
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Hurvart
Originally posted by Sythion
Originally posted by Hurvart
 Perhaps all I want is to be able to craft the best swords on the server. And be famous for that. I can log in and play one hour and perhaps sell a few swords.

What is this game where you can play 1 hour a day and be the best crafter on your server? Must not have many players, if that's possible to do.

Some days you will probably have to play more. But you can play in smaller chunks. You are not forced to finish raids or events that lasts 4-5-6 hours like you are in some themeparks. I can perhaps play 6 hours/day if I play 1 hour in the morning, 3 hours in the afternoon and 2 hours before I go to bed late evening. But perhaps its not possible for me to ever play 5-6 hour sessions.  My point is that you have more freedom to plan your time and figure out and find something that works for you if you play a sandbox. Because you are not on rails and there is more freedom and more options in general.

 I have played a number of sandboxes.  While yes you can play as little or as long as you want, EVERY activity in a sandbox requires a significant amount of time.  Playing one hour a day you will never be the best or even among the very good ones at anything in the game ever, unless the game has a skill/level cap.

Yes, someone could play sandbox one hour a day and eventually max out their craft. Once they max, they will be equal with other maxed crafters. Why is there debate over this?

Uninterrupted session time required to progress is not dependent on themepark/sandbox. It's just game design. Either game archetype can be designed to suit long or short sessions.

VengeSunsoar, in ANY game without a skill/level cap, you will always be overcome by someone playing 5x more hours than you.

  LEmmopeasant

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 46

4/20/12 1:26:11 AM#220
Originally posted by joocheese

Eventually (hopefully) the mmo gaming industry will turn their gaze towards sandbox gaming platforms. Maybe the mmo world is not ready for it yet, but I do hope that sometime in the future we'll have an epic sandbox mmorpg with millions and millions of players turning the tide of world pvp every day, building massive cities, and witnessing battles (world pvp) of epic proportions. (*sigh) someday!

Things don't have to be of epic proportions to be epic. ;P

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