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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » why do developers insist on easy mode?

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36 posts found
  eddieg50

Elite Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 1546

 
OP  4/14/12 11:27:05 AM#1

   I used to play vanilla wow and it was fairly challenging combat, the same with eq2 and Lotro and then for some reason developers made the mobs much easier to kill which makes the game boring!   I like SWTOR but over the last few weeks I have found that they have put their mobs on easy mode also.  Do they want people to rush to the end game? I know this cant be the reason in swtor becuase their end game is not their strength, Ahhh well I guess I will have to wait for this summer when Vanguard becomes f2p because their combat is challenging.

 

  UsulDaNeriak

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/07
Posts: 642

4/14/12 11:57:01 AM#2
Originally posted by eddieg50

   Ahhh well I guess I will have to wait for this summer when Vanguard becomes f2p because their combat is challenging.

 

perhaps you will be disapointed. a usual tactics of F2P-conversions is, to make the levelling process easier. so you end up earlier at the point, where it makes a lot of sense to buy some stuff from the cash-shop. also it brings more people faster to the endgame and fill the servers in the important zones. 

 

played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds

  Amaranthar

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2171

4/14/12 11:58:38 AM#3

If someone makes a game where the primary objective is to run through levels, then the players who like that sort of game play are naturally going to want to get there FASTER. (Generally speaking of course.)

That's why such players, and such games, tend to move towards "easy mode".

Once upon a time....

  Twistingfate

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/10
Posts: 178

4/14/12 12:01:11 PM#4

Easy sells. /thread

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5201

4/14/12 12:03:19 PM#5
Originally posted by Twistingfate

Easy sells. /thread

HAHA!, I saw the title from the home page and I came over here to say EZMode sells games. But I was too late.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  grimfall

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1159

4/14/12 12:05:02 PM#6
Originally posted by eddieg50

   I used to play vanilla wow and it was fairly challenging combat, the same with eq2 and Lotro and then for some reason developers made the mobs much easier to kill which makes the game boring!   I like SWTOR but over the last few weeks I have found that they have put their mobs on easy mode also.  Do they want people to rush to the end game? I know this cant be the reason in swtor becuase their end game is not their strength, Ahhh well I guess I will have to wait for this summer when Vanguard becomes f2p because their combat is challenging.

 

What is "vanilla wow"?  Are there other flavors of "wow" like chocolate or strawberry, or maybe a neapolitan that mixes all three?

WoW combat to me was easy mode, so there you go.  Players like instant gratification as the folks at Blizzard figured out, so the industry has copied that.

  Twistingfate

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/10
Posts: 178

4/14/12 12:28:58 PM#7

Nice geezer haha. Its the sad truth. I love hard games but because humans tend to take the path of least resistance in most situations it forces easier options to be more favorable.

  Drakxii

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 599

4/14/12 12:35:58 PM#8
Originally posted by Twistingfate

Easy sells. /thread

Yep easy sells and hard maintains.  So while devs might not want to do easy mode their bosses and the publishers want to sell as many as they can as fast as they can.   

 

Basiclly they are just looking for short term business and ingoring long term business or just hoping it will appear.

I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  Jakdstripper

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 2144

4/14/12 12:38:03 PM#9

because we keep whining that it's too hard.

 

i'm serious by the way.

  ZombieKen

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

4/14/12 12:43:24 PM#10

It's sort of like Lite Beer.  Less work, more status.

 

One point where it fails.  If everyone has status, then no-one has status.

 

I think it also ties in with a flaw in themepark design.  Eventually the game gets top-heavy with high levels.  The more emphasis placed on high level content, the faster players feel they have to reach high level.  Then the dev caves in and changes leveling from taking hundreds of hours to only a few, resulting in an even more top-heavy game.  Eventually the leveling process is just a tutorial.

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13756

4/14/12 1:30:47 PM#11

Because progression and challenge don't mix.  Most of the things in MMORPGs that you complain of as "easy" would have been very difficult to impossible if you had been lower level with worse gear.

In order to make something hard, period, rather than hard only if you're underleveled with inferior gear, it has to be hard even if you're at the level cap with the best possible gear.  That is, it has to come after progression in the game has completely ceased.  And people will complain about that, too.

It can be a lull where progression ceases until you beat the challenge, but such challenges must necessarily be relatively few in number, which only means that almost everything is easy.  It can also be a challenge as a result of the game scaling you down to the content, so that while you can continue to progress elsewhere for use in other content, you cannot progress further for the particular set of content at hand.  But that will also draw a lot of complaints.

Easy mode is a direct consequence of having a lot of progression in an MMORPG.

  centkin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/01/10
Posts: 828

4/14/12 1:35:16 PM#12

I wonder sometimes why they dont do parallel servers like cabal or many of the ftp games where you can log onto any one of 20 channels or so BUT have different difficulty levels.

Server 1 through 6 Beginner

Server 7 through 12 Normal

Server 13 through 16 Hard

Server 17 through 20 Insane

----

Beginner = no real death penalty, monsters deal 1/2 damage, monsters worth 80% exp.  Monsters have a 50% chance to drop items one gear table lower than they normally drop.

Normal = minor death penalty, monsters deal normal damage, worth normal exp.

Hard = moderate death penalty, monsters deal 3/2 damage, worth 120% exp, have a 20% chance to drop items 1 gear table higher than they normally would drop (so if a blue item was supposed to drop, 20% chance of it being yellow instead).

Insane = severe death penalty, monsters deal 2x damage, have extra resistance to spells, worth 140% exp, drop 30% more items, and have a 40% chance to drop items 1 gear table higher, and a 10% chance of dropping items 2 gear tables higher.

  Karahandras

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1669

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

4/14/12 1:37:45 PM#13
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Twistingfate

Easy sells. /thread

HAHA!, I saw the title from the home page and I came over here to say EZMode sells games. But I was too late.

Me too

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20541

4/14/12 1:52:34 PM#14
Originally posted by centkin

I wonder sometimes why they dont do parallel servers like cabal or many of the ftp games where you can log onto any one of 20 channels or so BUT have different difficulty levels.

Server 1 through 6 Beginner

Server 7 through 12 Normal

Server 13 through 16 Hard

Server 17 through 20 Insane

----

Beginner = no real death penalty, monsters deal 1/2 damage, monsters worth 80% exp.  Monsters have a 50% chance to drop items one gear table lower than they normally drop.

Normal = minor death penalty, monsters deal normal damage, worth normal exp.

Hard = moderate death penalty, monsters deal 3/2 damage, worth 120% exp, have a 20% chance to drop items 1 gear table higher than they normally would drop (so if a blue item was supposed to drop, 20% chance of it being yellow instead).

Insane = severe death penalty, monsters deal 2x damage, have extra resistance to spells, worth 140% exp, drop 30% more items, and have a 40% chance to drop items 1 gear table higher, and a 10% chance of dropping items 2 gear tables higher.

Cost of maintaining the servers vs benefit?

Is making leveling hard help to gain lots of players?

They do have 3 difficulty levels for raids, and two for dungeons.

  GoldenArrow

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1142

4/14/12 1:55:07 PM#15

As said many times in this thread.

Spoonfeeding gets even non-gamers interested.

  Onigod

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/07
Posts: 694

4/14/12 1:57:16 PM#16
Originally posted by eddieg50

   I used to play vanilla wow and it was fairly challenging combat, the same with eq2 and Lotro and then for some reason developers made the mobs much easier to kill which makes the game boring!   I like SWTOR but over the last few weeks I have found that they have put their mobs on easy mode also.  Do they want people to rush to the end game? I know this cant be the reason in swtor becuase their end game is not their strength, Ahhh well I guess I will have to wait for this summer when Vanguard becomes f2p because their combat is challenging.

 

I also like the fact Vanguard could become alive again but they will also patch the game and i have a feeling that if it atracts people they will put it full with little shortcuts/ balance changes that are also aimed for making mobs easier and everything to try to attract more people.

  Four0Six

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1161

4/14/12 1:57:25 PM#17
Originally posted by eddieg50

   I used to play vanilla wow and it was fairly challenging combat, the same with eq2 and Lotro and then for some reason developers made the mobs much easier to kill which makes the game boring!   I like SWTOR but over the last few weeks I have found that they have put their mobs on easy mode also.  Do they want people to rush to the end game? I know this cant be the reason in swtor becuase their end game is not their strength, Ahhh well I guess I will have to wait for this summer when Vanguard becomes f2p because their combat is challenging.

 

Games need to be easy. They need to be easy of the "tweens" (kids between 10-13) can play.

  spankybus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 1168

"Don''t touch that squirrel''s nuts!" - Willy Wonka

4/14/12 2:01:28 PM#18

In answer to the title of the thread, two reasons:

1.) developers and publishers need as many subs as possible to be profitable.

2.) the vast majority of people on this planet are fairly stupid...need proof, when MMO's were harder fewer people played EM...as they have gotten easier, more people play.

Vanilla WoW was challenging? That game opened up the floodgates of bat-shit stupid people. If there is one title in the MMo genre most directly responsible for the universal dumbing down, it's WoW.

Loved the game, but a three legged goat can reach max level in a week....maybe faster if he has both front legs.

Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature

  Rivalen

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 509

4/14/12 2:01:59 PM#19
Originally posted by Quizzical

Because progression and challenge don't mix.  Most of the things in MMORPGs that you complain of as "easy" would have been very difficult to impossible if you had been lower level with worse gear.

In order to make something hard, period, rather than hard only if you're underleveled with inferior gear, it has to be hard even if you're at the level cap with the best possible gear.  That is, it has to come after progression in the game has completely ceased.  And people will complain about that, too.

It can be a lull where progression ceases until you beat the challenge, but such challenges must necessarily be relatively few in number, which only means that almost everything is easy.  It can also be a challenge as a result of the game scaling you down to the content, so that while you can continue to progress elsewhere for use in other content, you cannot progress further for the particular set of content at hand.  But that will also draw a lot of complaints.

Easy mode is a direct consequence of having a lot of progression in an MMORPG.

Well, that and predictable combat.

Horizontal progression, randomized dungeons, better AI (that mimicks on the fly decisions) and hard gimmick / execute or die fights are the way to go if you're looking for challeging PVE.

PVP is another beast.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2179

4/14/12 2:03:37 PM#20

Console and solitare crowed entered the arena 6 years ago and first thing they did was whining how hard it is. 

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

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