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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » If you thought Ilum PVP was bad wait till you pvp after 1.2

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96 posts found
  Chrome1980

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 523

 
OP  4/14/12 9:51:25 AM#1

Hi, i would like to keep this post short because i know long posts scare people and they won't bother to read it. I would like to mention some serious oversgihts and blunders made in PVP in patch 1.2

 

- (1) No Penality for leavin warzones. Yes you can just leave as many warzones as you like if you are not winning.

 

- (2) Harsh penalities on loss which ls directly connected to the above point and rest of the points below.

 

- (3) Too much focus on getting medals. After 1.2 in order to get most commendations you have to get most medals which can be accumilated through defense points, killing blows,planting bombs, scoring goals etc. Although nice in theory to work as a deterrant against those who just want to afk and leech off others, it has failed big time in practise.

Why? because if you are on losing side the best option is to turtle close to turrets and doors and try to get as many medals as possible. The end result is same people going afk but this time close to defense objectives.

If you get less than 3 medals you get zero commendations, zero XP and zero cash. getting 3 medals net you around 15 to 20 commendations and to get 40+ commendations you need 8 or more medals. Result is that people are too worried about losing medals and there is lot more turtling than fighting. Healer and dps usually just rush to turrets and refuse to move if they know they are going to lose, so why not get atleast 3 medals? or go home empty handed.

This problem gets more serious when you are constantly matched against premades in full BM and Warhero gear. You have no chance to win so either turtle to get 3 medals or quit the match..which takes us back to the first point i made.

 

- (4) After 1.2 matches do not close down if you enter a warzone with less players. So either you toughen it up and keep fighting outnumbered or lose and go home with zero rewards or.... get measly 10 to 15 commendations because you failed to get enough medals.

 

- (5) PVP weekly and PVP daily gives equal reward. Yes sir, 99 warzone commendations, 99 ranked commendations. Before 1.2 players used to get atleast 4 bags for completing weekly. Now doesn't matter if you put double effort in completing weekly, reward is the same.

 

- (6) Huge nerf on cash from PVP. Now even if you hate PVE well suck it up, grind PVE dailies. There is no option or choice anymore.

 

- (7) Insane amount of money sink in 1.2. Simple legacy gear costs around 500 to 600K for full set. Taking mods out of BM gear will set you back with 500K. Things like mail box in your ship and droids for repare costs cool 1 to 2 mill credits. Legacy unlocks can go up to 1 mill and over. Things like cutting your cool down on fleet pass can cost a million or more.

Nerf to PVP cash has just made it a huge grind for PVP players. PVE players are still fine.

 

- (8) Still with me? if you want to PVP roll biochem. Since the commendations have been nerfed and healers have been nerfed further. You will have to spend a lot of commendations on stims from PVP vendors for survival. Who would want to do that when commendations are hard to come by and you would rather save it for gear instead of spending it on stims and medpacks?

 

- (9) Due to people constantly leaving matches, if you replace one of them or join in late and lost you will again get zero in everything. Apparently you didn't have enough time to win minimum of 3 medals by defending,  killing blows etc.

 

So who is benefiting the most out of 1.2? people in full BM / Warhero gear rolling in premades. (Yes i have full BM gear too). I am all about penalities for loss and giving more rewards to winners but why put such harsh penalities that your progression comes to a halt which only further helps in increasing the already widening gap between those who are well geared and those who just started PVP at 50?

Before this patch we thought BW is making right move and will help players gear up faster so that the only thing differentiates them is skill. I love progression and i love playing for incentives too but at the same time i would also like to have matches where players are on equal footing in terms of gear.

The current system discourages anyone who was unable to get BM sets pre 1.2. Penalities are too harsh which has made PVP a big pain. Why break something which was working just fine? right now we are playing a half system because ranked warzones didn't make it in last patch. Why not just release it in full form rather than aggraveting current PVP player base?

 

P.S : The reason i made this topic here is because i got sick of general attitude of fans on SWTOR forums. All valid concerns are being dismissed as whining and crybabies. I know this website isn't a fan site so i am hoping to get more balanced thoughts on this. I would really appreciate your contribution and hope this won't turn into SWTOR sucks and BW is fail topic. Keep discussion free of flames please.

I repeat again i am wearing full BM gear and as of 1.2 i have stopped doing premades because i know it is unfair to those just starting out. i am not looking for welfare epics or easy loot either. I just want to know if others feel the same... that with 1.2 whatever PVP was left in swtor is going to end up dead?

 

edit; Ahh crap i couldn't keep it short now could i? /sad face

  MrSalty

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/13/12
Posts: 43

4/14/12 9:57:36 AM#2

good post.

  Chrome1980

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 523

 
OP  4/14/12 10:07:15 AM#3
Originally posted by MrSalty

good post.

Thanks and sorry for critting you with a wall of text. But there are so many issues that making small post about it is just impossible.

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3575

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

4/14/12 10:09:55 AM#4

You make some good points. Its been obvious that who ever is making the design decisions over there, doesn't have a clue about the actual implications involved. WAY too many Dev's do not play their own game, so they make bone headed mistakes. 

But over and above that. Bioware isn't really a PvP focused company.  Thus the overwhelming focus of ToR is PvE.  Unless or until they get some people who understand how such games actually work, it might be best to find a game with a PvP focus. 

  wowfan1996

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/09
Posts: 741

4/14/12 10:10:52 AM#5

It's quite obvious at this point that BioWare wants to silently purge SWTOR of all kinds of PvP.

MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  Chrome1980

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 523

 
OP  4/14/12 10:14:00 AM#6
Originally posted by Wraithone

You make some good points. Its been obvious that who ever is making the design decisions over there, doesn't have a clue about the actual implications involved. WAY too many Dev's do not play their own game, so they make bone headed mistakes. 

But over and above that. Bioware isn't really a PvP focused company.  Thus the overwhelming focus of ToR is PvE.  Unless or until they get some people who understand how such games actually work, it might be best to find a game with a PvP focus. 

Sad thing is that (speaking from my own server's experince) people who PVP outnumber those who PVE. Because PVP is fast and there is less downtime compared to PVE where you spend most of the time spamming for LFG. I dislike PVE in SWTOR and if simply moving on is an option then i fear SWTOR is going to lose a lot of subs.

My own guild which has 40 active members and mostly PVP players would just have to move on? i can't accept that. We put too much time and effort into PVP since release.

Choices are good but in SWTOR PVP players are running out of choices and options.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7471

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

4/14/12 10:15:22 AM#7
Originally posted by Wraithone

You make some good points. Its been obvious that who ever is making the design decisions over there, doesn't have a clue about the actual implications involved. WAY too many Dev's do not play their own game, so they make bone headed mistakes. 

But over and above that. Bioware isn't really a PvP focused company.  Thus the overwhelming focus of ToR is PvE.  Unless or until they get some people who understand how such games actually work, it might be best to find a game with a PvP focus. 

 

Mythic?

  Himemiya

Novice Member

Joined: 4/13/12
Posts: 140

4/14/12 10:16:39 AM#8
Originally posted by Chrome1980
Originally posted by MrSalty

good post.

Thanks and sorry for critting you with a wall of text. But there are so many issues that making small post about ir is just impossible.

A wall of text has no spaces, paragraphs etc. This ain't one :)

L2P TERA combat: http://youtu.be/k_ZTX31fGtk

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

4/14/12 10:17:06 AM#9
Originally posted by wowfan1996

It's quite obvious at this point that BioWare wants to silently purge SWTOR of all kinds of PvP.

 

Gabe Amantangelo, Galactic peace envoy
  MMOarQQ

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 659

"Against stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain."

4/14/12 10:19:56 AM#10

Game lacks content? Just make the grind longer...

 

Fucking brilliant.

  Cetra

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 371

4/14/12 10:24:03 AM#11

None of the developers at bioware understand a sh1t about mmo gaming. All patches since launch have left me disappointed.

They are better off making singleplayer games.

I cant wait for GW2 to kick swtor butt. Expect swtor to go f2p next year.

  Worstluck

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/11
Posts: 1280

No man controls my destiny... especially not one who attacks downwind and stinks of garlic.

4/14/12 10:26:37 AM#12

Well there is always the ever present rumor or guess that some of the people who designed SWTOR's PvP were yanked directly from Warhammer Online and we all know how they turned out.  They couldn't fix the open world pvp part of the game (lag, fortresses, balance, etc) so they focused on scenarios. 

 

I believe that there should have been almost zero focus on PvP.  Bioware should have just focused on what they do best.  They have created a bigger mess with this pvp stuff then if it was never in the game in the first place.  It probably didn't help either that they hyped the pvp saying they have 'top men' working on it and saying how awesome Ilum is going to be. 

  Chrome1980

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 523

 
OP  4/14/12 10:27:53 AM#13

Just have a look at front page. Granted there will always be those who will whine and complain for just anything but there are some very valid concerns and topics which are simply being dismissed as whining.

http://www.swtor.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=76

  Pocahinha

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/09
Posts: 570

4/14/12 10:35:14 AM#14

Bioware is totaly ignorant about what an mmorpg is.

  Cetra

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 371

4/14/12 10:37:16 AM#15
Originally posted by Worstluck

It probably didn't help either that they hyped the pvp saying they have 'top men' working on it and saying how awesome Ilum is going to be. 

Exactly!! Bioware love to say "we have a dedicated team working on <insert watever> blah blah blah". but the end results always come out as crap. So much for their professional team. Bioware could have hired a group of gamers as consultants and achieve better results.

  wowfan1996

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/09
Posts: 741

4/14/12 10:43:13 AM#16


Originally posted by Cetra
Expect swtor to go f2p next year.

Don't get your hopes up too high. SWG never went F2P. WAR never really went F2P either (since their endless trial covers such a tiny part of the game you can't even call it freemium).
 

MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).

  Arkinia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/12
Posts: 257

Actual MMORPG memeber since 2004!

4/14/12 10:44:22 AM#17
Originally posted by Chrome1980

Hi, i would like to keep this post short because i know long posts scare people and they won't bother to read it. I would like to mention some serious oversgihts and blunders made in PVP in patch 1.2

 

- (1) No Penality for leavin warzones. Yes you can just leave as many warzones as you like if you are not winning.

 

- (2) Harsh penalities on loss which ls directly connected to the above point and rest of the points below.

 

- (3) Too much focus on getting medals. After 1.2 in order to get most commendations you have to get most medals which can be accumilated through defense points, killing blows,planting bombs, scoring goals etc. Although nice in theory to work as a deterrant against those who just want to afk and leech off others, it has failed big time in practise.

Why? because if you are on losing side the best option is to turtle close to turrets and doors and try to get as many medals as possible. The end result is same people going afk but this time close to defense objectives.

If you get less than 3 medals you get zero commendations, zero XP and zero cash. getting 3 medals net you around 15 to 20 commendations and to get 40+ commendations you need 8 or more medals. Result is that people are too worried about losing medals and there is lot more turtling than fighting. Healer and dps usually just rush to turrets and refuse to move if they know they are going to lose, so why not get atleast 3 medals? or go home empty handed.

This problem gets more serious when you are constantly matched against premades in full BM and Warhero gear. You have no chance to win so either turtle to get 3 medals or quit the match..which takes us back to the first point i made.

 

- (4) After 1.2 matches do not close down if you enter a warzone with less players. So either you toughen it up and keep fighting outnumbered or lose and go home with zero rewards or.... get measly 10 to 15 commendations because you failed to get enough medals.

 

- (5) PVP weekly and PVP daily gives equal reward. Yes sir, 99 warzone commendations, 99 ranked commendations. Before 1.2 players used to get atleast 4 bags for completing weekly. Now doesn't matter if you put double effort in completing weekly, reward is the same.

 

- (6) Huge nerf on cash from PVP. Now even if you hate PVE well suck it up, grind PVE dailies. There is no option or choice anymore.

 

- (7) Insane amount of money sink in 1.2. Simple legacy gear costs around 500 to 600K for full set. Taking mods out of BM gear will set you back with 500K. Things like mail box in your ship and droids for repare costs cool 1 to 2 mill credits. Legacy unlocks can go up to 1 mill and over. Things like cutting your cool down on fleet pass can cost a million or more.

Nerf to PVP cash has just made it a huge grind for PVP players. PVE players are still fine.

 

- (8) Still with me? if you want to PVP roll biochem. Since the commendations have been nerfed and healers have been nerfed further. You will have to spend a lot of commendations on stims from PVP vendors for survival. Who would want to do that when commendations are hard to come by and you would rather save it for gear instead of spending it on stims and medpacks?

 

- (9) Due to people constantly leaving matches, if you replace one of them or join in late and lost you will again get zero in everything. Apparently you didn't have enough time to win minimum of 3 medals by defending,  killing blows etc.

 

So who is benefiting the most out of 1.2? people in full BM / Warhero gear rolling in premades. (Yes i have full BM gear too). I am all about penalities for loss and giving more rewards to winners but why put such harsh penalities that your progression comes to a halt which only further helps in increasing the already widening gap between those who are well geared and those who just started PVP at 50?

Before this patch we thought BW is making right move and will help players gear up faster so that the only thing differentiates them is skill. I love progression and i love playing for incentives too but at the same time i would also like to have matches where players are on equal footing in terms of gear.

The current system discourages anyone who was unable to get BM sets pre 1.2. Penalities are too harsh which has made PVP a big pain. Why break something which was working just fine? right now we are playing a half system because ranked warzones didn't make it in last patch. Why not just release it in full form rather than aggraveting current PVP player base?

 

P.S : The reason i made this topic here is because i got sick of general attitude of fans on SWTOR forums. All valid concerns are being dismissed as whining and crybabies. I know this website isn't a fan site so i am hoping to get more balanced thoughts on this. I would really appreciate your contribution and hope this won't turn into SWTOR sucks and BW is fail topic. Keep discussion free of flames please.

I repeat again i am wearing full BM gear and as of 1.2 i have stopped doing premades because i know it is unfair to those just starting out. i am not looking for welfare epics or easy loot either. I just want to know if others feel the same... that with 1.2 whatever PVP was left in swtor is going to end up dead?

 

edit; Ahh crap i couldn't keep it short now could i? /sad face

waaaaaa! j/k, I'm over there, as well. The only ones who will be left playing this horrid mess are the one's you just mentioned. 

  Zeus.CM

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1798

www.croatian-maniacs.com

4/14/12 10:45:32 AM#18

So when this game is going f2p again?

  ScribZ

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 444

Don't let your passion get in the way of your passion.

4/14/12 10:46:47 AM#19

Great post OP. This is exactly why I for one will probably not be back for much more of SWTOR. It used to be fun to get into a PvP match and do whatever needed to be done to help your team win. Now...if you are not concentrating on your own personal medal count your just wasting your entire day away.

I even tested this out yesterday to be sure before I tossed in the preverbial towel. I played 9 matches, in those 9 I did the ole 'help the team' by tossing some heals, crowd controls, and generally helping to win idea. Of the 9 we won 3, and at the end of it all I had added 215 commendations to my inventory after 2 hours of play. The next 9 matches I said 'screw the team' and went in it for myself, who cares if the team wins or not. We won 2 of the 9 matches, and at the end of the 2 hours of play time I added 410 commendations to my inventory total. Sure I got more commendations, but I was no longer having fun doing PvP, I was grinding commendations and that was all.

On my 50, who is already Valor rank 54, I was planning on doing enough matches to get my 750/750 pilot III scooter. But after this, I think its just not worth it anymore. 1.2 may have brought some good things to this game in other areas, but I honestly think it just killed it on the PvP side of the house. :(

Oh well, at least there is D3 Beta to play for now until GW2 and TSW come out.

  Arkinia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/12
Posts: 257

Actual MMORPG memeber since 2004!

4/14/12 10:47:14 AM#20
Originally posted by thedarkess

So when this game is going f2p again?

next Thursday 

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