I thought mmoRPG´s were pretty much online RPG´s and as such, half the fun was that  every soul in them should be different, unique, chaotic, unbalanced and sport a different growth and powers and obtained different gear and abilities depending on how they chose to interact and partecipate within the world and the story.

So why is everyone obsessed about balance, fairness, other classes having cool spells or some guy obtaining the sword of doom when they do not?

Why are mmorpgs being turned in some kind of medieval fps?

I thought rpgs were about the story, the interactions and  not the pew pew and how that n00b warrior does moar damage with his e-peen strike than the mage with his flaming ballz of domination.

*shrug*

You are asking why people in general are jealous or envious? That's a pretty big question. How much time do you have

Because is not fun to play a game when you get killed in a sec and you can't kill a fly

I think "balance" is something that most players have a misconception about. Balance does not consititute fairness. Balance derives from combat mechanics to class mechanics. Is that class balanced within their archetype? And is that archetype balanced within the combat mechanics? I am big on balance but not the balance that is suggested in the thread.

Everyone is in favor of his own version of fairness.  We just disagree on the proper definition of fairness.  Real-life politics is like that, too.

I think its all about the PVP crowd if all you do is pve you do pick the class you enjoy playing most and go for it you don't mind unbalanced classes as much since you have fun with your class and the only way you realize that another class might do stuff better than you can is when you pt up with them and go after a common goal so again it would not bother you since the Strength of the other class would proof useful to yourself.(that of course only works if all classes bring something to the table which makes them a liable option for pve content)

In pvp that doesn't work its no fun if there is one class which is too powerful (even tho in my experience there always is at least 1 other class which might not be outstanding but is the perfect choice for taking down the overpowered one)and since player focusing on pvp are too hung up on winning its a big deal for them.

The "everybody gets a medal" "everyone is a winner" generation has grown up and is now playing mainstream mmos. That's my guess, anyways.

Every Western kid is raised with the mentality that he's special, so of course all we special people have to be just as special; no more, no less.

most games are overbalanced already, if it comes to PvE. i will never understand, why people moan that a necromancer can solo better than others or rangers do more dps than a slayer or whatever. who cares as long it is not fully out of bounds?

exactly this whining and balancing leaded to classes, which are not unique anymore: everyclass can heal, has a dot, a dd, a heal, a hot, a snare, a knockback and all the same damn handicapped cc ... and so on. and none of these skills is as strong as it used to be in the more diversified old-school games. it is just named differently and one is based on mana, the other on stamina and the third on energy or what you have. finally pve-combat becomes dull and tactically less versatile as it used to be.

i understand balancing for instanced pvp. but this is esports. if this damn pvp-balancing  impacts pve-classes, it becomes horrible. and for open territorial pvp (which does just exist in sandboxes afaik) balancing of classes is a secondary question anyways.

so lot of MMORPGs are overbalanced due to esports guys? this is ridiclulous.

i am not against instanced pvp/esports. but games have to be designed in a way, that this has no impact on PvE and open-PvP. in this department i prefer less balance to get more diversified classes. therefor esports have to be instanced with different rulesets than the rest of the game. and even inside esports you can offer different rulesets depending on what type of arena you sign up. balanced or fully unbalanced or whatever.

Are you talking about this kind of thinking?

One thing I've learned by dwelling on these forums is that, often the people who don't care about balance or complain about the focus on balance do not understand balance. Contrary to their usual arguments, good balance actually creates variety, not the opposite.

One other thing I've observed by playing multiple games from multiple genres across multiple platforms is that poor balance is especially detrimental to PvP. Thats why it is, and should be, focused upon in games which have PvP or any form of competition. The worst possible balance in PvP would create a scenario where one build rules over others without any counters. A step better would be a scenario where this build had one counter and that is it. Even so, the metagame would essentially have only two viable builds: the overpowered one and its counter.

Perfect balance would create a situation where every possible build is equally viable and useful and players would have a wide variety of play styles and builds to choose from. In practice, however, creating perfect balance in a complex* game is impossible.

*(more complex than Rock-Paper-Scissors that is, where it is easy to see that it is in perfect balance)

Originally posted by Latella

I thought mmoRPG´s were pretty much online RPG´s and as such, half the fun was that  every soul in them should be different, unique, chaotic, unbalanced and sport a different growth and powers and obtained different gear and abilities depending on how they chose to interact and partecipate within the world and the story.

So why is everyone obsessed about balance, fairness, other classes having cool spells or some guy obtaining the sword of doom when they do not?

Why are mmorpgs being turned in some kind of medieval fps?

I thought rpgs were about the story, the interactions and  not the pew pew and how that n00b warrior does moar damage with his e-peen strike than the mage with his flaming ballz of domination.

*shrug*

Welcome to the generation of entitlement. Where even the losing team gets a trophy.

Yeah it makes me wish sometimes that games were either PvP or PvE only.  Balancing for PvP makes the classes and skills so bland and similar.  Balancing for PvE is evne more rediculous.  I want to be in a party and have each person / class seem distinct.

Well in PvP, people believe they are the best, the only thing holding them back is gear / nerfed class etc.

Balance and fairness is an opinion that each person has. It will never happen or be seen in a MMO without having just one class with no customization options.

Any game where player skill has any impact can never be balanced since someone will aways be better than you anyway.

You can balance both PvP/PvE but it requires PvE to be moved back up and notch from the easy mode it is today.

PvP-Balancing makes classes similair? Thats stupid. A good PvP-Balancing makes classes very different. The problem is, that a good balancing is often very difficult so many developers go the easy way and make classes similair.

Fairness in an MMoRPG only means, that every person has the same possibility to get an item, kill a boss etc. But that doesnt mean, that everybody has to do it on the same way. Here comes the balancing. With a good balancing every class can do it on a different way with the same chance of success.

A good pvp-balancing doesnt mean, that a mage can kill a rouge with ease because he has stuns, a knight can kill a rouge with ease, because he has stuns etc. A good balancing would be f.e.: Knight can kill a rouge because he has a very strong defense, but a rouge can kill a knight, because he evades many attacks of the knight. Rouge can kill a mage, because the mage has a low physical defense, but the mage can kill a rouge, because the rouge has a low magical defense etc.

Greets Niffi

Probably because no matter the genre, mmo or otherwise, its still a GAME.  I'll repeat that.  Its a game. 

Or do people enjoy playing chess where one player gets all the pieces and the other has to remove their queen, knights, and bishops before they even begin to play? 

If some classes are overpowered whats the point of playing anything else other than those classes? 

Originally posted by Latella

I thought mmoRPG´s were pretty much online RPG´s and as such, half the fun was that  every soul in them should be different, unique, chaotic, unbalanced and sport a different growth and powers and obtained different gear and abilities depending on how they chose to interact and partecipate within the world and the story.

So why is everyone obsessed about balance, fairness, other classes having cool spells or some guy obtaining the sword of doom when they do not?

Why are mmorpgs being turned in some kind of medieval fps?

I thought rpgs were about the story, the interactions and  not the pew pew and how that n00b warrior does moar damage with his e-peen strike than the mage with his flaming ballz of domination.

*shrug*

stuff is only fair when it is an advantage for you(the one playing the game), when someone else gets the one of a kind unique sword of doom then that is not fair.  I am 60, I watched my country go from only 1 person wins to everyone gets a ribbon for attending, and watched all spice and danger taken out of everything.  I can't say it has improved the country any.  Same goes for games - they took out all the challenges and everyone is equal.  For me that is the epitome of boring. Now I am sure a lot of the younger generation likes it just fine, cause they were brought up differently.  I was brought up to face challenges, and if you got beat brush yourself off and try again... now that would be unfair, I should have gotten a ribbon. sorry  just ranting but I think life and games should go back to challenging and if you feel it is unfair then learn how to face a challenge. just sayin'.

The equality amongst archetypes in MMORPGs is that they are all supposed to have a deficit in one area and be able to take advantage of another's deficits. You are good at one thing, not so good at the other, which works well in PvP and PvE. If you have a character that breaks that rule, you have an imbalance. The more people realize this imbalance, the more apparent it becomes and exploited.