Bittersweet, Aesrys, would be infinitely preferable to just plain bitter.

I still think it's to make it more simple dropping us the ME mmorpg. With mass relays blown and all the iconic ME universe races around earth it's now practical to make a canon mmo that revolves around one or few planets instead the whole galaxy. They still could have done the ending a lot more better considering Shepards fate and how he/she reacts to it. And leave out the fucking annoying child. Why do they come up with those fucking annoying all powerful children especially when they make no sense.

Suzie, I'd definitely agree.  I would have liked the bittersweet ending.  But I think you chose the right word, most of us are just bitter (which, apparently, must be a synonym for Entitled, according to the media, that I just wasn't aware of).

Originally posted by Settingsun

I don't get why Bioware can't say, "We made a mistake with the ending."

I can see why they wouldn't want to spend months making a dlc that would make it right, since fans would want it for free. They only have so many people and they have other projects. I think they believe that this will not have a huge effect on the bottom line for future games, so why make a new ending?

Bioware did say they messed up the ending they also stated the DLC will be free for twenty years years.

Writing an article about how you think artistic integrity is a cop out is sort of a Catch 22.

Ask yourself this Suzie, if I made a big enough stink about your post, would you change it?  I think the obvious answer would be no.

Mass Effect was not written by a big evil corporation, it was written by one person... Drew Karpyshyn.

If you can't see this comparison then maybe you are just a little spoiled and a little entitled.

Originally posted by troublmaker

Mass Effect was not written by a big evil corporation, it was written by one person... Drew Karpyshyn.

If you can't see this comparison then maybe you are just a little spoiled and a little entitled.

Nope, Drew already got pulled from the project during ME2 to work on TOR. His original story was rewritten. He quit his job after TOR was released.

Originally posted by troublmaker

Originally posted by Settingsun

Ask yourself this Suzie, if I made a big enough stink about your post, would you change it?  I think the obvious answer would be no.

Mass Effect was not written by a big evil corporation, it was written by one person... Drew Karpyshyn.

If you can't see this comparison then maybe you are just a little spoiled and a little entitled.

 

Actually, I don't see my post as "art" in any form at all. It's merely an opinion piece. Additonally, I'm not trying to sell my opinion to anyone so I honestly don't have a vested interest in caring if anyone likes it or not. That's why we titled the series "The Soap Box" after all.

But let's just assume for a minute that I consider myself an artist and that I want to sell my writing to consumers all around the world.

If someone reasonably argued that my writing was 100% in error and in violation of everything I'd ever written before, I would probably stand back and assess it critically. After all, what kind of artist am I if I can't take the criticism and use it make myself a better , more successful artist? Add to that the fact that I actually want to make money on my writing, it behooves me to listen to my critics, art be damned.

If I am trying to sell a commercial product, it ceases in many ways, to be art.

Originally posted by troublmaker

Bioware did say they messed up the ending they also stated the DLC will be free for twenty years years.

I'm assuming this was a typo, as the DLC will be free for two years, not twenty (Press release = http://investor.ea.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=662095)

And I don't believe, though I could be mistaken, that BioWare ever actually said they messed up the ending.  They have repeated stated how proud of the game they are and how they are standing by the "artistic vision" (their words, not mine) and that the DLC is just attempting to provide more closure, and as mentioned previously, more "context and clarity" (again, their words, not mine).  

Originally posted by troublmaker

Mass Effect was not written by a big evil corporation, it was written by one person... Drew Karpyshyn.

Ummm... No.

Director: Casey Hudson

Writers: John Dombrow, Neil Pollner, Cathleen Rootsaert, Mac Walters, Patrick Weekes.

I guess your posts match your name..

Originally posted by UsualSuspect

What I don't understand is why they chose the path of the star-kid in the first place? What possible reason was there? They've been playing things as a Star Wars / Starship Troopers / action sci-fi movie from the very conception of the trilogy, why would they completely go the other way right at the end? It's like Suzie says, it's as if they brought in a group of writers who had never seen any of the previous content and asked them to write up an ending. How can Bioware not see that the ending just doesn't fit the theme they had through all three games?

It confuses the hell out of me, it really does, I just can't come up with any rational reason why they would switch themes right at the very end. It's confusing, frustrating, and ultimately, bloody annoying.





 

The Second MrBtongue video deals with that. Apparently everything but the ending was peer reviewed by everyone involved.

Except the ending, which was done solely by Casey Hudson and Mac Walters, and without peer review. Granted, it's a rumor, but it does seem to explain why the ending and the rest of the game feel so differently.

And if true it also explains why they won't fix it. Simply an issue of ego and pride.

Hence the whole Artisitic Vision defense

Personally, I always tend to make comparisons with Dreamweb, when folks accuse me of wanting a happy ending. In that game, you play this chap who may be suffering from a nervous breakdown and is going psychotic.

But essentially you're The Chosen One, who has to stop the Big Bads, from tearing apart the Fabric of Reality, and thus unleashing some other Beasties who make the Great Old Ones from the Lovecraft Ctulhu Mythos seem like Mr. Rogers in comparison.

You manage to do so, and get sent back to Earth. All's well that ends well? Not really. Considering that you're wanted by the police for multiple murders and get shot by them as you try to give yourself up.

Turns out that all the witnesses to the existence of the Dreamweb need to be eliminated, and even as The Chosen One, you're not immune to this. Your soul then enters the Dreamweb, combined with those of the Big Bads that you dispatched, and helps strengthen it for another 1000y or so.

(Least that's how I remember the game going anyway. Heck, it's been roughly 20y since I've played it.)

Happy ending? Nope. Fully consistent with the established world? Which is one of those  Dystopian Cyberpunk variants. Very much so. Did they pull the "double cross" out of thin air? Nope. There were small clues that things would end up this way, but nothing that you'd immedialy notice during your initial play through.

Now granted this is a singular game and not the end of a trilogy, but even then it's not as if the ME crew had to worry about any dangling plotpoints for a ME4.

To quote Casey Hudson: "As Mass Effect 3 is the end of the planned trilogy, the developers are not constrained by the necessity of allowing the story to diverge, yet also continue into the next chapter. This will result in a story that diverges into wildly different conclusions based on the player's actions in the first two chapters."

To once again use an Olympic Gymnastics reference. They didn't stick their landing, they either ended up on their face or their backside. And that means no Gold Medal.

And in part what makes this issue even more egrerious is the role of the Media in all of this. Which is also something that MrBtongue addresses in that second video of his.



Rather than to take Bioware to task for flubbing the landing, they went into cheerleader mode. Rather than actually reporting the dissatisfaction of the fanbase, they belittled them, to hide the fact that they themselves weren't doing their job, but were playing cheerleader.

Thereby causing both Bioware and the Media to forget one thing. Those whiny opinionated folks, who won't shut up? They kinda help you guys pay the bills. They're the ones actually reading the News Sites (that means pageviews and advertising revenue). They're the ones who help spread Word of Mouth about how awesome a game or a studio is.

Neither group is in a position like Microsoft with its Operation System. And while there are alternatives even for MS, they're not that open or available for the casual computer user.

Not quite the case with either the Gaming Media or Game Companies like Bioware. Back in the late '90s, who would've believed that Black Isle Studios, Westwood Studios, Origin Systems or Sierra would end up defunct. And the Gaming Media? Their print counterparts have slowly dwindlered, more and more online versions arise. It's not just Gamespot, IGN or Gamespy (to name the big three) no more.

And while it may not be an immediate deathknell, it's not one that should be underestimated. Bioware just needs to look at Westwood, Origin, Bullfrog, or Pandemic Studios to name a few. And none of those went under due to a fanbase that felt screwed by the Developers that they trusted.

 

I wrote a better ending for ME3 that ties into all the choices you have made throughout all 3 games that makes a HELL of a lot more sense than what is currently in the game.

Took me like.. 10 minutes of brainstorming.

No plot holes, ties into everything in the game, more importantly ties everything together! and has varying outcomes based directly on what you have done for hundreds of hours throughout the franchise instead of a random A,B,C decision that doesn't tie into anything and means jack sh!t to anyone/everything.

Also, would be 100% entirely possible to do given how well Bioware proved they can track the decisions your character made via the import system.

10 minutes or so of extra dialogue, than 3 seperate possible endings (cut scenes and such) that actually make sense, provide resolution for the franchise, and would without a doubt completely eliminate any lingering doubts/fears/anger the fans have.

Bioware, give me a call.

Oh yeah, it also fits perfectly into the lore as established by the series in terms of plausability.

Oh and you know what? It even ties into the current ending just enough to not have to scrap ALL of it.

MMORPG.com, use your connections and make it happen lol I promise you won't be disappointed.

Actually it's more like 4 possible endings because there would be one super special ZOMG I "beat" Mass Effect ending for the uber fans.

Suzie if you want I can write it out for you :)

You could even take it to Bioware as your own I wouldn't care.

And yes, it really is that good.

I agree that the "happy ending" wasn't necessarily what I would expect (even if we all hoped for it). People should accept that "all things must pass".

Nonetheless I agree with the fact that the sudden "divine intervention" (mostly anticipated by the strange dreams of the child) was a total letdown...

But then I watched the video about the "indoctrination theory". It could be.

Anyway I'll wait and see. ME3 is a fantastic game. The ending is a bit of meh...

Im so glad I opted not to buy ME3 and just wait till 2 year down the line for a deluxe with all the DLC ending where it might actually be decent.

Seems that Bioware are just putting out fail after fail since the EA takeover.

Originally posted by Escapehatch

This is the game BioWare wanted to make all along.  The people who think they "retconned" the reapers at the end don't understand what the word means.  This was their plan from the beginning.  They never revealed what the reapers were, what they wanted, or if they worked for someone else.  But they left little hints...

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Klencory

That's from the first game, look at the second paragraph of the description.  "beings of light" controlling the reapers to stop synthetic life from taking over.  That makes zero sense until you see the ending.

I understand the complaints where choices didn't seem to have that much of an impact directly.  Yeah, they did promise that, didn't they?  But they did from an emotional standpoint.  If you freed the geth (either on their own or got them to stop fighting the quarians) choosing the destruction option is totally absurd.  "Thanks for the help, geth... suckers!"  If you told Legion to spin on it and chose the quarians, then destroying all synthetics didn't seem like such a bad choice.  Heck, get enough points, and you get to kill all synthetics and even live at the end.  Happily ever after!!!

I want to know how people thought the game was going to end.  It was established in the previous games that the reapers numbered in the hundreds of millions and that all of the combined resources of the galaxy didn't stand a chance against them.  Was the Crucible suppose to just be a super weapon that targeted only reapers and wiped them out?  Would that have been the awesome ending everyone was waiting for?  Shepard comes sliding down off a giant pile of reaper corpses, having sacrificed nothing in his/her entire quest, then takes the love interest by the hand and skips off into the sunset?

The "happy" ending to the story is the synthesis ending where Shepard ends the cycle of destruction and evolves all species to the point where organics are no longer at odds with synthetics.  Joker and EDI walking out of the ship was a ham-fisted swipe at an Adam and Eve type of ending.

Shepard is a hero in that ending.  Shepard got all of the races to work together (unlocking enough points for the synthesis ending) and chooses an ending where nobody else dies not even the reapers.

All of it did matter, because if Shepard had been selfish, had told people he/she didn't want their help, chose one side over another instead of getting them to work together, that ending isn't possible.

...unless you play through multiple times and do multiplayer... okay I just defeated my own argument.

 

Nice post, Escapehatch.  It may be a bit too... calm for most rabid fans, but you make some good points.

The ending isn't perfect, but I think people are overreacting.  I do see some sense in Escapehatch's logic.  The Reapers were impossible to beat.  How many cycles had this happened before Shepard even got this far?  I think I would have been disappointed if it were a happily ever after ending.

Also, I keep hearing how the endings are exactly the same with different colors (everyone did NOT die in my ending --- arguing that they would eventually die isn't really an arguement; not being able to use the relays does not equal death).

Where were all the complaints about ME2? There were 2 endings, you destroyed the Collector base or you didn't. Even calling these 2 different endings is a bit weak -- you've already deteated the Collectors by the time this decision is made!  Your crew dying was more about you rushing through the game skipping ship improvements and/or skipping the crews' personal missions.  Sure, you could do all that and still have people die, but it was much more difficult to do.  It was great that ME2 got the whole crew involved at the end (what the hell, ME3?), but crew death really doesn't feel like a "custom" ending to me.  The ending was still about defeating the Collectors.

The point is that ME doesn't have a history of custom endings (including ME1).  They allow a few choices that make it feel like you've got freedom, but Bioware needed to control the story or each following game would have too many wildly differing storylines to follow.  (If there is no ME4, then this arguement is not valid for ME3.)

I was not overly excited about the ending -- mainly because it felt like you crawled (limped) over the finish line. I would still like to see more details behind the ending, so will be playing the free DLC.  I just can't bring myself to protest and/or boycott like many of you are doing.  I'm a fan of the series, but there are too many other important things to be upset about.... like Origin or DRM (just kidding).

Thanks Suzie.  I completely agree!

Hope the extended DLC is several minutes of the writing staff being bludgeoned by a large elephant turd.

Originally posted by Tardcore

Hope the extended DLC is several minutes of the writing staff being bludgeoned by a large elephant turd.

Writing staff? Nah, I think they got the drunken hobo out back to write it...

On a related note, I think the ending pretty much proves that Drew Karpyshyn was the true reason Bioware had a reputation for excellent storytelling.

It's like watching Blizzard all over again.  You just wish you could go back in time when the game always came first.  Nothing lasts forever.  RIP Bioware?

Blizzard's still successful as a company, but does anyone still love/respect them like pre-'04?  I'd suggest that if Bioware isn't there yet, they're well on their way after ME3 and TOR.

OK, long winded time. Screw spoiler alerts, because if you read the article you either beat the game already or had it spoiled anyway.

First off, I agreee with the "95%" article 400%. Right up until the final battle the game was flat out EPIC. My only complaints would have been the occasionally retarded cover and the small number of playable side missions. But everything I did felt awesome when I had a mission. Seeing old and new friends, Seeing how Jack changed, watching Mordin redeem himself, watching Liara repeatedly break down..just awesome.

Then came the ending. I'ma break this down in pieces.

1) The ghost/AI/kid/Whatever. There would have been nothing wrong with this character IF it had better representation in the 95%. We had a couple dream sequences that don't even feel connected to the ending.If this had been developed better throughout the game (or better, the series) I'da been OK with it.

2) "I created synthetics to kill organics so organics don't make a synthetic that kills organics": I wanna slap the writer who handled this part for screwing up. I actually GET what the stupid AI is talking about. It purges the most advanced species every so often so they don't get TOO powerful and wipe out ALL life with their own stupid. Think of it like pruning a tree, or perhaps an analogy to the Tower of Babel. Problem is this was so horribly prhased it comes out idiotic. Horrible, terrible writing. Unforgiveable.

3) The choices: Knowing how much of ME was influenced by classic sci-fi, these don't surprise me...much. Kill the Reapers. OK, we knew that had to be one. Control them? Well, the Renegade options in 2 tended to have you thinking a lot along the lines of the Illusive Man, so I'll buy it. Merge with them to form a new super form of life? If you've ever read the Uplift series, 2001, Ringworld, or many other classic sci-fi pieces...you'd remember the idea of species merging to become something greater, beyond life as we understand it, is hardly new. It was a direct homage to those ideas and I'm OK with that.

What I'm NOT OK with is the fact we could choose. I get all the way to the end a perfect, sweet paragon, and at the end, I can turn around and undo it all and control the Reapers? No. The smart thing would have been to have your choices throughout the games shunt you into one of the endings automatically, without you choosing. Make the ending be the sum of your personality....you know, like it was supposed to.

4) Colored explosions: The cinematic team phoned it in. Period. They were rushed, there were budget cuts, they didn't know how to make it not suck....so they took the cheap route. Bioware did that a lot in DA2 as well, and I'm pretty much done giving them a chance because of it.

5) Relays destroyed: Remember my allusion to the tower of Babel? This fits pretty well really...but shoudl NOT have been the result of every ending. I think they shoehorned it into some endings so the same cinematic could be used for them all.

6) Joker picking up your teammates/running.crashing: This is plausible actually. It's possible he came down to help in the fight, found your mates all unhappy that you apparently died, and got the hell off earth. Then his sensors pick up the exploding ME relay, and he runs like hell. It's possible the planet he crashes on is one right in out Solar system..maybe a terraformed Venus or something.

Or it's a stupid plot hole. Whatever.

All the same, Bioware promised us something like 9+ completely, wildly different endings driven by our choices. And didn't give us that. I can understand some of their choices, and even agree with some, but I can't forgive the majority.

I did a lot of thinking about this last night and I came up with four reasons it sucks that have nothing to do with the ending being "unhappy."

1. It's Deus Ex Machina. In fact, that's an understatement. Having a magical space god show up at the end of the game is a straight up ass-pull. It's the science fiction version of "it was aliens." It's just plain bad, cliched writing. Even if it was their artistic vision from the beginning, gods/aliens showing up at the end is about as artistic as it turning out to have all been a dream at the end.

2. The world just got inverted. For the entire series, Shepard's choices define the plot. When you hit the ending, the plot starts defining Shepard's choices. Not onlydoes this sort of undermine the entire feeling of the series, but it's also just another case of bad plotting. If you have to make the characters make unreasonable or out of character decisions to make your plot work, then throw it out. It sucks.

3. It's not just sad. It's downright tragic. Shepard dying at the end really isn't the problem with the plot, and I don't think anyone could reasonably expect the ending to be better than bittersweet.. But the fact is that the ending is loaded with horrifying consequences that aren't immediately apparent, and most are tied to the destruction of the mass relays. First, millions of friends, families and lovers will never see each other again. They are separated forever. Second, billions of beings will never be able to return to their homeworlds. Third, the millions of people that lived in colonies and space stations will starve to death without supplies. Finally, with the destruction of the mass relay system, the only thing that made the universe interesting is gone. It's like Harry Potter ending with magic being destroyed. Sure, we saved the world, but to what avail? There really is no reason to care about it any more. The alien races are forever separated. The non-human races might as well not exist.

4. It didn't matter. Nothing that happened in any of the games up until the final multiple choice question mattered. Nothing. In a game all about choices, BioWare undermined their own creative vision by throwing every choice you made out the window and tacking a linear, one-dimesional Japanese RPG style ending on to the game, essentially ending their series with the antithesis of the reason they created it.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like the best way to summarize the issue is that Bioware tacked an poorly written, braindead, cliched Eastern ending on to a Western RPG.