You've probably seen this already, and it might be jumping the gun a bit, considering it might fit better with your next article, but what the hey..

Fair warning, it's a lengthy video.

http://youtu.be/7MlatxLP-xs

Originally posted by troublmaker

Originally posted by JeroKane

Mass Effect 3 was a rush job. Nothing more, nothing less!

The ending was fine.  This lies another main problem with trilogies, the last one will have a crappy ending guaranteed.

 

It isn't a question of the ending being sad or crappy.  Its wrong. As in, 2+2=5, Lord of the Rongs.

The movies and stories you mentioned (well most of them), if you were to look under the hood you would see that they were mechcaically very similar.  They shared certain elements, which came at certain points during the story. When you are telling a good story there is an order, a flow to it.

The Mass Effect ending is broken, maybe there was meant to be more to it or maybe someone came in at the end and slapped the last bit in without regards for what came before.

The saddest part in all this to me is that a lot of people spent a great deal of time making this game. They tried their best to make a great game. And then someone came in and gave a big f-u to all those people.

Great game, great ending, Mass effect 2 is the best game I have ever played and 3 is close behind, especially when compared to trash like gears of war or modern combat and their ilk

Yeah, I don't have a problem with people dying terribly. Or failing. I'd have been fine if after all these games, the war was lost, and I got to watch people die in terrible, mortal kombat-esque ways. Whatever.

Just wrap the damn plot up, cut the vague bullshit. It's not poetry, it's a video game (spare me the "games are art" diatribe, that's not what I'm getting at). You want to end the series? End the bloody series and move on.

Hopefully the summer ending DLC will do just that and we can finally put the issue to rest. I will say however, I'm sort of amused that the Better Business Bureau is even getting in on this. Totally worth a giggle.

Saying that ME3 is the shortest game in the series is simply not true. Do you guys even remember how long it took to beat ME1? Now that game was super short! 

On the ending, I think BioWare made a huge mistake. They shouldn't have gone for a controversial ending. They should've gone the happy ending route. This would've been much easier to do and most people would've been over the moon. I think that's what most people were expecting.

I wonder if you really and trully played ME1, ME2 and ME3 or just make things up on the fly!

Sorry, but ME1 is by far the largest game content wise, with tons of side missions (DLC excluded) that keep you occupied for a long long time.

ME2 is also huge, but smaller than ME1... so here it was already on decline, with close corridor and small maps design. Still don't understand why they didn't use the entire design of Citadel from ME1 and reused it in ME2 and ME3... just upgrading the textures here and there a bit. But still Citadel in ME1 looks great... even for todays standards.

I played ME1 and ME2 these past 2 months from scratch, with a fresh character, to build up a nice saved character to import into ME2 and then into ME3... to relive the whole story to the ending of ME3.

So I know what I am talking about and the amount of time I have spend in each and every game.

ME3 is short... very short, compared to ME1 and ME2. Period!

Unless you going to count in the absolutely horrendous, boring and insane Multiplayer grind in ME3 to get max war assets!  I hope you're not serious and think that is actual content and game hours to include in ME3?  As it's nothing more than a boring horendous timesink! Something they lied about through their teeth would not be necessary to accomplish max war assets to get the best possible ending.

So please... go actually play those games, before making things up.

Really, side quests?  You got that much time out of these games because you ran around and did every single stupid side quest.  But if you want to finish the game my times are completely accurate.  Simply claiming I haven't played the games doesn't make me wrong, it makes you ignorant.

You are allowed to hate the ending without it being called entitlement.  But if you start demanding the ending changed, then you are entitled.

Authors are always under attack by their fans.  The second they produce something someone doesn't like there is backlash.

There was this great Stephen King movie called Misery.  In it an author breaks down in a snowstorm and a woman takes in the author.  As it turns out she is a huge fan of his work and as it turns out he has the manuscript for the final book in the series.  After reading it in a single sitting she hates the ending.  She breaks the author's legs and forces him to a wheelchair.  From this piont on she is forcing him to write a better ending to the book.  Every time an ending is presented she hates it and she forces him to write another one.  Eventually he creates the work of fiction that she wants at which point he escapes.

All the nerds whinning about the ending and only the ending remind me so much of Kathy Bate's character.

it is alright to expect a great ending, but it is not alright to feel that you deserve a great ending.  This puts pressure on artists to capitulate to the fans instead of write something that fits with their creative modus.

Honestly if you want to make a new ending, go ahead.  Write a piece of fan fiction showing how it should end.  What you will find out is that making a story is not easy and that the vast majority of people will hate your work.

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

Originally posted by Sybnal

Originally posted by Sunscour

 

I am pretty sure that 99,9% of the people that liked the enitre ME3 game only played ME3... or didn't much care about the story/lore and just shoot and blast their way through the game... playing it as a regular FPS shooter, like COD or Battlefield game.

Pretty much everyone I know that have played through ME1 and ME2, used saved character, payed lots of attention to the lore and story and characters... enjoyed the game as a RPG... they all were baffled and dissapointed with ME3's endings.

I mean..... all the effort you put in both ME1 and ME2... to get your best possible saved character to import into ME3... it means total SQUAT! NADA!  It has ZERO effect on the outcome!

EVERYTHING you did in ME1 and ME2 means NOTHING in ME3 ! Just a very few extra dialogs in the beginning... that's it! Nothing more!  It has ZERO impact on ME3!

As the outcome (current endings in ME3) are SOLELY based on the amount of war assets you grind together in ME3 itself!  That's it!

The worst is, because the endings in ME3 are such an insult (rushed, simplistic, resolute!)... that I will never be able to play ME1 and ME2 anymore... as what's the point?  I know how it's going to end now and that everything I do or try in ME1 and ME2 means TOTAL SQUAT! NADA!

All Mass Relays get destroyed and everyone is pretty much isolated, stranded and screwed.

 I had a conversation like this on the train. Workmate liked the ending!, then told me he never played the other games and did'nt like science fiction or fantasy.

 I explained, how with the Relays turning into ship wrecking Nova that the galactic civilisation was screwed, he answered, 'its only a game'.

 Next Bioware AAA title will be 'PACKMAN - THE REVENGE'

Your times are not correct. I did everything in ME3 and did not come close to 40 hours game.

ME3 with everything done plus from ashes = 30 hours

ME2 with everything done including most DLC = 48 hours

ME1 with everything done no DLC = 37 hours

I checked all my final saves for these numbers.

You scoff doing side quests, well not doing sidequests drops ME3 playtime down to about 10 hours max. ME3 simply has the least amount of content. Before you start saying well you had DLCs for ME2. There is not 18 hours worth of DLC content out there.

Write a better ending?  Sure.. but I also would've changed huge chunks of the main plot of ME2, as well.  But to give you an idea...

I would've had the finished Crucible (surpisingly, instead of a weapon) turn out to be an intergalactic portal/mass relay.  An escape route, if you will.

Realizing the war is lost and the only hope is to go to wherever this might lead - the final act would've involved a last stand of the Organic fleets defending the portal as a chaotic exodus of the galaxy ensues through the Crucible.

A ton of potential endings there... a last showdown with Sovereign... does Shepard go out in a blaze of glory?  Can the Organics even defend (then presumably destroy) it long enough?  Maybe Shepard heads through the portal hoping to lead the survivors?  What really awaits on the other side? 

The ending sucks - everybody agree on that. It's like the devs just came up with it in a few hours as they had to urgently finish the job (so they haven't even bothered to do ending footages different a single bit). Likely they were hard pressed towards the schedule by EA managers...

Talking about the 3 games - I feel like they twisted the Mass Effect from a space exploration type game (remember the driving on planets surface in the 1st game) with a great plot to the nearly coridor type game in Mass Effect 3 ... you have the option to turn off the "boring" dialogue choices... Oh my!!! Are there really dialogue choices in the EA games? More like 1) I'll do it 2) I'll do it but... 3) I hate to do it but I must...  and they think it to be too difficult and boring, so some people would turn it off...  Lol Where are they heading? - to the Atari type arcade games?

But I love the multiplayer ME3... well despite the fact they don't have the chat both in game and in the lobby... I thought everybody knows the chat is a must in any multiplayer game... and everything is done with the spacebar... you usually get into the situations where you do not what was intended... like I want to run for cover, but start reviving the fallen player instead and die... Otherwise it resembles an easier version of your typical MMO dungeon, but with much much more dynamism... I love that, especially with the lack of coop PC game out there.

Originally posted by fadis

Write a better ending?  Sure.. but I also would've changed huge chunks of the main plot of ME2, as well.  But to give you an idea...

I would've had the finished Crucible (surpisingly, instead of a weapon) turn out to be an intergalactic portal/mass relay.  An escape route, if you will.

Realizing the war is lost and the only hope is to go to wherever this might lead - the final act would've involved a last stand of the Organic fleets defending the portal as a chaotic exodus of the galaxy ensues through the Crucible.

A ton of potential endings there... a last showdown with Sovereign... does Shepard go out in a blaze of glory?  Can the Organics even defend (then presumably destroy) it long enough?  Maybe Shepard heads through the portal hoping to lead the survivors?  What really awaits on the other side? 

 

So go ahead and write the ending from wherever you feel like it.  Write the entire script, write all of the details and churn it out.  Professional authors can spend up to a year perfecting a story

Remember when crafting your own ending though that this is the final story of Sheppard and so whatever ending has to tie in everything, no loose ends.

As I've stated before, finishing up a sequel is really really hard.  Most sequel endings generally suck and often do not tie in with the other movies/books at all.  It's not a lack of vision it's a lack of planning.

No one at Bioware told the guy who wrote Mass Effect to make a full three stories.  He works like a TV screen writer who is forced to churn out next week's script as it's being needed.

If anything the delivery of the ending was probably bad... and not that it was a bad ending.  Some people might think "it's a dream" might be a cop out but honestly there aren't many better ways to end it and tie in everything.

Most games have crappy endings.  Story telling in video games is not an old and well developed art, it is something new.  The first real story telling in games might be 2002-2003. Much like the first movies they shouldn't be judged too harshly if they haven't quite figured out how to explain the story they want to tell in this format.

And oh man the ending to Red Faction: Armageddon was terrible.  I can't believe it ended like that.  Why can't they change it?  So stupid that he loses his girlfriend and just doesn't care.. and stuff.

Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

Originally posted by Sybnal

Originally posted by Sunscour

Everyone has an opinion, what I am about to say is that.

I did like the ending. I felt like my Alice Shepard did what she set out to.

People died, people dissappeared, war is hell.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. Loved the ending of ME3. Loved the whole game in fact.

 

Just out of curiosity: Did you play the first two in the series or is this your first foray into the ME universe?

I played all of them
.

Carried all my stuff over too from all 3 games. I played 1 and 2 back to back.

Honestly, the first one was my least favorite, gameplay wise.  The story was still really enjoyable though.

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

Originally posted by Sybnal

Originally posted by Sunscour

Everyone has an opinion, what I am about to say is that.

I did like the ending. I felt like my Alice Shepard did what she set out to.

People died, people dissappeared, war is hell.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. Loved the ending of ME3. Loved the whole game in fact.

 

Just out of curiosity: Did you play the first two in the series or is this your first foray into the ME universe?

I am pretty sure that 99,9% of the people that liked the enitre ME3 game only played ME3... or didn't much care about the story/lore and just shoot and blast their way through the game... playing it as a regular FPS shooter, like COD or Battlefield game.

Pretty much everyone I know that have played through ME1 and ME2, used saved character, payed lots of attention to the lore and story and characters... enjoyed the game as a RPG... they all were baffled and dissapointed with ME3's endings.

I mean..... all the effort you put in both ME1 and ME2... to get your best possible saved character to import into ME3... it means total SQUAT! NADA!  It has ZERO effect on the outcome!

EVERYTHING you did in ME1 and ME2 means NOTHING in ME3 ! Just a very few extra dialogs in the beginning... that's it! Nothing more!  It has ZERO impact on ME3!

As the outcome (current endings in ME3) are SOLELY based on the amount of war assets you grind together in ME3 itself!  That's it!

The worst is, because the endings in ME3 are such an insult (rushed, simplistic, resolute!)... that I will never be able to play ME1 and ME2 anymore... as what's the point?  I know how it's going to end now and that everything I do or try in ME1 and ME2 means TOTAL SQUAT! NADA!

All Mass Relays get destroyed and everyone is pretty much isolated, stranded and screwed.

 

See, in my case. You couldn't be more wrong.

I guess I just got lucky. The way I played all THREE games, lined up perfectly with the 3rd and final act.

If you are into the idea of Shepard running off through a field of flowers with Miranda at the end and starting a fucking emu farm or some bullshit like that. I could see why you would be dissapointed.

Originally posted by Sybnal

Originally posted by JeroKane

Originally posted by Suzie_Ford

Originally posted by Sybnal

Originally posted by Sunscour

Everyone has an opinion, what I am about to say is that.

I did like the ending. I felt like my Alice Shepard did what she set out to.

People died, people dissappeared, war is hell.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. Loved the ending of ME3. Loved the whole game in fact.

 

Just out of curiosity: Did you play the first two in the series or is this your first foray into the ME universe?

I am pretty sure that 99,9% of the people that liked the enitre ME3 game only played ME3... or didn't much care about the story/lore and just shoot and blast their way through the game... playing it as a regular FPS shooter, like COD or Battlefield game.

Pretty much everyone I know that have played through ME1 and ME2, used saved character, payed lots of attention to the lore and story and characters... enjoyed the game as a RPG... they all were baffled and dissapointed with ME3's endings.

I mean..... all the effort you put in both ME1 and ME2... to get your best possible saved character to import into ME3... it means total SQUAT! NADA!  It has ZERO effect on the outcome!

EVERYTHING you did in ME1 and ME2 means NOTHING in ME3 ! Just a very few extra dialogs in the beginning... that's it! Nothing more!  It has ZERO impact on ME3!

As the outcome (current endings in ME3) are SOLELY based on the amount of war assets you grind together in ME3 itself!  That's it!

The worst is, because the endings in ME3 are such an insult (rushed, simplistic, resolute!)... that I will never be able to play ME1 and ME2 anymore... as what's the point?  I know how it's going to end now and that everything I do or try in ME1 and ME2 means TOTAL SQUAT! NADA!

All Mass Relays get destroyed and everyone is pretty much isolated, stranded and screwed.

 

See, in my case. You couldn't be more wrong.

I guess I just got lucky. The way I played all THREE games, lined up perfectly with the 3rd and final act.

If you are into the idea of Shepard running off through a field of flowers with Miranda at the end and starting a fucking emu farm or some bullshit like that. I could see why you would be dissapointed.

 

That's the entire point. It will line up regardless of what you did.  No choice in previous games had a real consequence for the third game, because whatever your choices in ME1/ME2 there would be an alternative in ME3 for any of them.

Any of your teammates died? no worries some npc will take their place.

The last Rachni queen dead? Behold she wasn't the last after all.

Renegade or Paragon? Both play out the same.

Originally posted by Connmacart

 

That's the entire point. It will line up regardless of what you did.  No choice in previous games had a real consequence for the third game, because whatever your choices in ME1/ME2 there would be an alternative in ME3 for any of them.

Any of your teammates died? no worries some npc will take their place.

The last Rachni queen dead? Behold she wasn't the last after all.

Renegade or Paragon? Both play out the same.

Ya, totally valid point.

But that's consistant with the other two games. I mean in the first it's all Specter this and geth that. Then in the second all that goes out the window in the first 2 minutes of the game then it's Cerebus this and Collectors that, then the beginning of the 3rd it's all, fuck Cerebus, you're back in the army again all of a sudden.  Nothing you decide changes any of that. 

If anything it was the beginnings of ME2 and 3 that I kind shook my head at. 

I understand that people wanted to see a bunch of radically different endings and didn't get that.  But honestly, I didn't give a shit because for me, it was an awesome ending to a fantastic trilogy of games.

Originally posted by troublmaker

So go ahead and write the ending from wherever you feel like it.  Write the entire script, write all of the details and churn it out.  Professional authors can spend up to a year perfecting a story

Remember when crafting your own ending though that this is the final story of Sheppard and so whatever ending has to tie in everything, no loose ends.

As I've stated before, finishing up a sequel is really really hard.  Most sequel endings generally suck and often do not tie in with the other movies/books at all.  It's not a lack of vision it's a lack of planning.

Originally posted by troublmaker

No one at Bioware told the guy who wrote Mass Effect to make a full three stories.  He works like a TV screen writer who is forced to churn out next week's script as it's being needed.

Actually, from what I've gathered, Drew Karpyshyn (who was the main writer for ME 1 + 2) had written out a storyline for ME3, but it got tossed, for one reason or another.

Anyway, for all the "blame" that folks like to toss towards the Fans, who are dissatisfied with the current ending, and how they're entitled and everything.

Please do remember that it was Bioware staff who made all sorts of promises to said fanbase, and that part of the backlash is in response to these not kept promises.

The chap here: http://youtu.be/6M0Cf864P7E

Does a nice overview of said promises, with various quotes by the folks doing the promising, as well as a few other things.

Tad more angry than the other bloke whose video's I've linked to though.

Now of course you can go: I'm not going to watch that bantha poodoo, it'll take too much effort/time etc.

But then you'd be arguing out of bad faith subsequently.

As for the whole video game storytelling is still in its infancy argument. That's a bit of a strawman, considering that it can definitely borrow aspects from other mediums, with which it shares common features, like literature, movies or TV shows.

And if the interactive part is a problem, well the choose your own adventure genre has been around for a number of decades as well.

Plus as for first real storytelling dates back to 2002-2003 aspect.

Ultima IV: 1985

Wing Commander: 1990

System Shock: 1994

Dreamweb: 1994 (not the most popular game by any means, but its ending fit within the world that the story had created. And no it wasn't a happy ending either. Yet it made perfect sense.)

Resident Evil: 1997

Final Fantasy VII: 1997

Fallout: 1997

Baldur's Gate: 1998

Planescape: Torment: 1999

System Shock 2: 1999

Deus Ex: 2000

And I've left out quite a few other games, that did manage to pull it off.

I suspect the best analogy might be Olympic Style Gymnastics, the modern form dates back to 1954 btw,

If you don't stick the landing, then all the previous twists, turns, leaps and what nots you've used, no matter how difficult, become rather meaningless, as you don't get a max score and you can kiss that gold medal goodbye..

100% completion percentage, for the second time in this trilogy. I love this game.