I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.

I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?

I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.

Originally posted by Spector88

I am a more "hardcore" type of player. So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.

 

I've played almsot every MMO out there, the cost is nothing to be. However, I read that end game is this game is no raids, anti grind, and from what I read borderline pointless. So basically I hit max level and, walk around trying to get titles?

 

I will point out that the videos and gameplay reviews for this game has kind of won me over, but I hated Guild Wars 1.

Well, the explorable mode dungeons are supposed to be really hard.

... and there's always PvP if you want a REAL challenge.  Try to be the best person in the world at the yearly tournament!  That should be hardcore enough for anybody. :D

... and what's the difference between grinding for an extra +1 on your armor and grinding for a title that says you ground more?

I mean, other than the second being more hardcore because content doesn't get any easier, while the first one totally leads to easy mode as you outgear stuff.

I've been checking out vids and it appears there will be sponsored tournaments for competitive pvp.   There will be rankings.  There will be 'very hard' modes for dungeons (as difficult as a raid but not so many peeps in party).

...and no matter where you go you will be the appropriate level for the content.   

People will try to convince you GW2 doesn't have that.

Methinks they are wrong.

Endgame = what there's is left to do when you are done leveling.

So far we've seen armor and weapon sets that can be upgraded with token like dungeon drops up to 5 times or so. That seems pretty progressiony grindish to me. Also the dungeons have multiple difficulty settings.

Then there's also the random stat itemization I think: getting the perfect gear for your playstyle with the perfect mods should take you a while (or a lot of gold).

Also the dynamic event rewards you get aren't always the same: might take you some time to get the drops you really want.

Then there's going to be ranked structured pvp matches and all that too.

Of course WvW potentially is a never ending endgame.

Originally posted by DarkPony

So far we've seen armor and weapon sets that can be upgraded with token like dungeon drops up to 5 times or so. That seems pretty progressiony grindish to me. Also the dungeons have multiple difficulty settings.

Then there's also the random stat itemization I think: getting the perfect gear for your playstyle with the perfect mods should take you a while (or a lot of gold).

Also the dynamic event rewards you get aren't always the same: might take you some time to get the drops you really want.

 

Actually, I semi-agree with you on this part...

... though it's not so much that you'll be getting MORE powerful, as more focused in the way you want, from my understanding of what they've shown.

So it'll be a lot of working towards the perfect balance of item stats, rather than a set that has +10 all around.

... but yeah, that happened in GW1, and from the looks of how itemization works in videos, it'll be much the same here.  Sure, it may be a max level set you have, but maybe you want one with more of a certain stat and a tighter focus, rather than a generalized set.

Originally posted by Spector88

So not having ANY grind at the end of a game for me would be pretty dull, and pointless.

I think the other MMO's you have played have brainwashed you too much to ever change your mindset.

I fear this game is not for you.

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Originally posted by Meowhead

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Originally posted by DarkPony
So far we've seen armor and weapon sets that can be upgraded with token like dungeon drops up to 5 times or so. That seems pretty progressiony grindish to me. Also the dungeons have multiple difficulty settings.
Then there's also the random stat itemization I think: getting the perfect gear for your playstyle with the perfect mods should take you a while (or a lot of gold).
Also the dynamic event rewards you get aren't always the same: might take you some time to get the drops you really want.
 

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Actually, I semi-agree with you on this part...
... though it's not so much that you'll be getting MORE powerful, as more focused in the way you want, from my understanding of what they've shown.
So it'll be a lot of working towards the perfect balance of item stats, rather than a set that has +10 all around.
... but yeah, that happened in GW1, and from the looks of how itemization works in videos, it'll be much the same here.  Sure, it may be a max level set you have, but maybe you want one with more of a certain stat and a tighter focus, rather than a generalized set.

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I think the importance of items in GW2 will "feel" similar to most other games: you still want to get those tasty upgrades, despite the actual difference between base lvl 80 gear and ultimate lvl 80 gear being a lot less compared to other games. In peoples' perception not much will change I think.

I read that in WvWvW you get pushed to lvl 80 and have the same stats as every1?

Um.. whats the point of PvPing then if no one has to earn their gear and being geared doesnt help you slay opponents easier???

Good points most of you, just adding more.

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

THE ENTIRE GAME IS THE ENDGAME!  THE ENTIRE GAME IS THE ENDGAME!  

And So Anet Doth Spoke.

Praise Him.

Originally posted by DarkPony

 

 
Aye. You know how many people are ... even a 0,5% stat increase is something they'll happily work their ass off for. (At least I do).

 

I think the importance of items in GW2 will "feel" similar to most other games: you still want to get those tasty upgrades, despite the actual difference between base lvl 80 gear and ultimate lvl 80 gear being a lot less compared to other games. In peoples' perception not much will change I think.

Except from my understanding and stats they've shown, you'll be struggling towards say... a 10% stat =decrease=.

Because while something with 3 stats might be +50/+50/+50, something with 2 stats might be +70/+70 and something with 1 stat might be +120.  :D

... but if you REALLY want to focus in specific ways, you'll willingly take the hit to some stats to specialize.

You sound like a PVE player looking for the traditional themepark raid. Well, GW2 answers that with explorable dungeons and dynamic events. Explorable dungeons, to put it simply, are "5-man raids" - they are made for a small party but requires the coordination built for the traditional large raid group. It's my opinion, but based on what I've seen in the videos the difficulty is beyond BC heroic level warrior tanking in shattered halls - if that means any thing to you. The dynamic events speak for themselves - they do stand out in the videos. Nothing further to add for those.

As a bonus, both of these have carrots at the end of the run to satisfy every "hardcore PVE player's" desires.

Originally posted by Spector88

I read that in WvWvW you get pushed to lvl 80 and have the same stats as every1?

 

Um.. whats the point of PvPing then if no one has to earn their gear and being geared doesnt help you slay opponents easier???

 

Good points most of you, just adding more.

Played Stwor? There was statboosting in pvp in that game as well ...

Didn't prevent the boosted lowbies from being completely facestomped by true max levels.

Not only their gear will be worse, but having access to all abilities and elite skills and talents will have the biggest impact.

And that is fine: there should be a difference but it shouldn't be too easy to kill them either.

Originally posted by Spector88

I read that in WvWvW you get pushed to lvl 80 and have the same stats as every1?

 

Um.. whats the point of PvPing then if no one has to earn their gear and being geared doesnt help you slay opponents easier???

 

Good points most of you, just adding more.

Actually, there's two kinds of PvP, structure and WvW

In both, you're autoleveled to 80, with a boost in stats and HP.

... in structured you get max level armor and all skills.

... in WvW, you're still in whatever gear you brought, with whatever skills you've brought.

Structured PvP, the point is pretty much the same point as in RTSs, fighting games or shooters.  It's a competitive balanced PvP format where you fight for the sake of fighting.  There's a currency called 'glory' which lets you buy cosmetic appearances for your armor (And there's a LOT of them, I've seen a list of just what was beta, and it was tons of possible armor pieces), but other than that, you fight for the fun of it, for fame and glory, and for the prize money of tournaments. :D

WvW, you still get rewards and a level 80 will kick the shit out of a level 1 person leveled to 80, unless the level 80 person actually sucks.

Originally posted by Spector88

I read that in WvWvW you get pushed to lvl 80 and have the same stats as every1?

 

Um.. whats the point of PvPing then if no one has to earn their gear and being geared doesnt help you slay opponents easier???

 

Good points most of you, just adding more.

It just ups your HP/damage output to that of a level 80. You'll still be lacking Gear, Traits, Skills even if you are like lvl 5.

Originally posted by DarkPony

People will try to convince you GW2 doesn't have that.

Methinks they are wrong.

Endgame = what there's is left to do when you are done leveling.

So far we've seen armor and weapon sets that can be upgraded with token like dungeon drops up to 5 times or so. That seems pretty progressiony grindish to me. Also the dungeons have multiple difficulty settings.

Then there's also the random stat itemization I think: getting the perfect gear for your playstyle with the perfect mods should take you a while (or a lot of gold).

Also the dynamic event rewards you get aren't always the same: might take you some time to get the drops you really want.

Then there's going to be ranked structured pvp matches and all that too.

Of course WvW potentially is a never ending endgame.

 

After reading through your well thought out list I have to say the only one on there interesting to me is the last one, WvWvW combat.  

I'm a victim of my upbringing, I prefer MMORPG's that have almost limitless character progression curves and / or are more focused on long term territory control and resource acquisition/denial which I don't see much of in GW2 so far.

But leveling up should be fun (I actually enjoy that part of MMORPG's) so I'll find some fun in the title I'm sure.

Originally posted by Spector88

I read that in WvWvW you get pushed to lvl 80 and have the same stats as every1?

 

Um.. whats the point of PvPing then if no one has to earn their gear and being geared doesnt help you slay opponents easier???

 

Good points most of you, just adding more.

Many people are excited for GW2 for this very reason.  From my perspective, I wonder a different question than yours.  What is the point of PvPing if the only incentive to play is to earn more gear to make it easier to beat people?  PvP would seem to suggest competition and challenge as many "PvP" things like athletics, games, etc.  You play to win.  If you win with a handicap, you'll never be able to truly claim superiority over your opponent.

It sounds like ArenaNet is creating a game for these types of players.  Personally, I'm very excited to try th game out.  Every few weeks, 3 factions are chosen at random from the servers and pitted against each other in WvW.  Over that time, the faction who accomplishes the most in the WvW objectives will be named the victor.  GW2 is going to offer a rich database of stat tracking, tournament brackets and leaderboards.  To answer your question, the point of PvPing will be to get better, to win, and to rank higher than your peers.  This will be a game for players who love to PvP and be competitive. 

I think it will be a welcomed departure from games like WoW and TOR that offer gear progression through PvP as the main incentive to engage the player-base.

First you have to ask yourself.. why do I go through a dungeon at end game on other games. Most times it is to get better gear so you can do the next dungeon.  Is that next dungeon harder? Well, the boss and mobs are more powerfull, but then because of the gear you got from the last dungeon, so are you. It evens itself out. BUT it is still new,  That first dungeon got easy after awhile and after about the 20th time you did it so everyone could get geared up, lets face it, it got a little repeative and boring. 

Now, lets pretend instead of better gear from the first dungeon you got a key to the next dungeon and a shinney hat that lets everyone know you are epic dungeon clearer. The second dungeon you got the key for isnt harder per se, just different and will give you a new cape and a key for the next dungeon.  In this system if you really liked that 2nd dungeon, you can do it again for fun and if you didnt like that first dungeon as much, you dont have to go again.

Now get rid of the key system, have 3 (or more) dungeons with different diifuclty settings you can go into at anytime (go into, only beat if you have the skillz), and go to town.  Add in open world events also and you have end game in GW2... at lest as I understand it.

Don't forget WvW gives the winning server/guilds additional buffs - which in turn help in all aspects of the game (apart from small scale PvP). So there is certainly a reason to do it. I just hope Arenanet add some more significant incentives though.

Also want some incentives for big dynamic event bosses.

For the gazillionth time, end game starts at level 1. You'll be doing dymanic events from level 1 to max level. There are also sseveral dungeons to do. There is also pvp.